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Is anyone else as ridiculously excited about electric bikes as I am? I know they don't have the range just yet to be more than just a curiosity to those of us with long commutes, but they will before long. I'm not asking for much, 150 mile range and $6k would have me in a dealer forthwith. I'm not sure why I'm digging on electric bikes so much. Maybe it's because I like riding but don't really get the appeal of the sound a motorcycle makes? Perhaps I like electric bikes because of the ease of maintenance? My fascination could be a result of what seems to be a better performance and styling potential with electric bikes than their internal combustion brethren. How can you not love no gears and therefore never being in the wrong gear or at the wrong RPM for a turn? The most promising real world bike right now, in my opinion, is the Brammo Enertia. For under $8k you get a bike that weighs 324lbs, looks good, a 40 mile city, 20 mile highway range, and a 60+mph top speed. Yeah, I know, the range isn't great for a long distance ride, but most people could easily commute to work, charge the bike, and commute home. The Enertia has a built in battery charger that just takes a standard 10amp, 115v outlet to charge the batteries from dead to full in 4 hours. The other main contender for the "actually affordable by normal people while maintaining some semblance of range" is the uncleverly named Zero from Zero Motorcycles. The Zero features a top speed of 55mph, 55 mile range city, not listed but much less on the highway, 270lbs total weight, and all for the low low price of $9950. The Zero isn't going to win any beauty contests, but it is available in 3 different configurations: Off Road, Street, and Dual Sport. Like the Enertia, the Zero recharges from a standard 10amp, 115v outlet in 4 hours. In the realm of retardedly expensive bikes with tons of power and no range you'll find things like the Mission Motors One and the Motoczysz E1pc. Both bikes sport no range, 150mph+ top speeds, ridiculous on-track performance, and $65k+ stickers. At any rate, please tell me that there are other people who can't wait for the price to come down a little more and the range to go up a bit. I mean, how could you possibly not want to throw your leg over a loving real life tie fighter? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XKbwWfbxNU
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| # ¿ Dec 30, 2009 20:19 |
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| # ¿ May 25, 2013 19:40 |
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I know that electric bikes don't have the soul and passion you guys are looking for, but do you honestly enjoy the racket motorcycles make? As for not being able to commute on them, how so? If your commute, like mine, is farther than the range of the bike then yeah, of course, but what would make them not viable for the majority of people with a commute under 20 miles?
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| # ¿ Dec 30, 2009 21:33 |
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Phat_Albert posted:The real question here is you DONT enjoy the racket of a motorcycle? If not, you need to experience some gnarly 2-strokes, and flatslide carbs, and V-4's, and desmodromic valvetrains, things like that. Not really, no. I've spent my fair share of time around hopped up Kawasaki and Suzuki 2 strokes, Ducatis, and all manner of standard engine bikes. Sound is subjective and I happen to be of the opinion that bikes just don't sound that good. If you just flat out aren't interested in electric bike tech what-so-ever, that's one thing, but I think some of you are missing the point of this thread. This isn't about whether or not current electric bike tech is viable. This thread is about whether or not the entire idea of an electric bike is viable. No one would argue that electric bikes are viable for the masses currently, but they will get there and for some people are already there now. Once we have the battery technology for, say 500 miles on a charge, would you care then? What would it take for you to care about electric bikes?
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| # ¿ Dec 30, 2009 23:19 |
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Phat_Albert posted:However, dont discount what people like and dont like and how it dictates the motorcycle world. There have been more than a few attempts at automatic transmissions in bikes, and they have all pretty much been failures, as the motorcycle community in general has spoken, and said that they dont want them. Scooters are the only market where automatic transmissions are successful. The motorcycling community may just speak with their wallets and say no to electric bikes, relegating them to scooter use only or something similar. That's the thing, though. The one speed transmission on an electric bike is there for a reason, it doesn't need a transmission. Automatic transmissions on an ICE motorcycle are failures because they take away control in a vehicle that requires the user to be in control for stability reasons. Citing a lack of gears on an electric bike as a con is like citing a lack of pistons in a rotary engine as a con. FuzzyWuzzyBear posted:Yes, old man Phil, I enjoy the "racket" bikes make just like I enjoy the racket my car makes. Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of a rumbly v8. There's nothing close to that in the motorcycle world. Bikes sound either like an ATV (Ducati), truck with no mufflers (Harley), or a fartcan equipped Honda (everything else). Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I mean, if people didn't like that fartcan sound out of their Civic there wouldn't be so many exhaust options out there for them.
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| # ¿ Dec 31, 2009 03:01 |
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redscare posted:I'm all for alternative propulsion, be it bike or car, but I want to be able to fill it up in ~5 minutes and get on with it like I can with a gasoline vehicle. And I want to be able to do it in the rear end end of nowhere. Cause what the gently caress am I gonna do with a bike that I can't refill in buttfuckistan, Russia? Ride it like 99.9% of the rest of motorcycle riders?
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| # ¿ Dec 31, 2009 03:31 |
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Z3n posted:Actually, shifting gears is sort of a big part of the appeal of a motorcycle. It involves you in the operation of the bike, gives you another tool when it comes to how you manage power and engine braking to the ground. There's no backing it in on an electric bike... But that rotary engine doesn't have pistons it's not a real engine! When you make infinite torque from 0 RPM you don't need a transmission to manage power. A bike that doesn't require you to shift gears to stay in the meat of its powerband, because its always in the meat of its powerband, frees you up to do things like control your brakes and steering input to a finer degree. Imagine a bike that puts the rear brake control on the handle bars. Now you can actually trail brake in a hard right hander. quote:Finally, how do you track one of these motorcycles? I buy bikes for that alone, and know many other riders that no longer ride on the street. There is no practical, good, electric bike out there. The MotoCzyzc is unobtanium, just like all of his other bikes, and the only other option out there is the Killacycle, which is a drag bike. Cool, don't get me wrong, but not the tool I'm looking for. You track an electric bike just like every other bike. I mean, what's different? You have to carry some spare batteries? Really, what's different? The power is already there with bikes that you can purchase (at a ridiculous price, yeah, the technology is still new) like the Mission One. Your entire argument boils down to something that I previously addressed, you don't like electric bikes because of the current state of the industry. What changes for you when electric bikes are widely available? What changes when electric bikes do perform on an equal playing field with ICE bikes? Does not worrying about your engine maintenance between laps appeal to you? Do you like the idea of being able to position the majority of the bike's weight in the chassis wherever you deem best so the suspension can work to its fullest? As I've said, don't debate the current state of the industry, look to the future and ask yourself, "what is the potential for these bikes"?. quote:Hydrogen is loving horrible...your fuel disappears if you let it sit for any significant amount of time? Not to mention how resource intensive getting hydrogen is. I bet someone used this same argument a hundred years ago when gasoline was in its infancy. It probably went something like this: "Wait, you want me to power my auto with explosions?! You mean to tell me that your petrol turns to unusable varnish after a few months in storage? Not to mention how resource intensive it is to extract it from the ground and refine it." "No, good sir, I'll stick with safe and affordable steam." quote:Plus they're hideously expensive, their range sucks, they don't have anywhere near the versatility or the power of a modern bike, they require long fill ups, they don't have any sort hop ups or upgrade paths, blah blah blah. Oh, so in order for electric bikes to be viable in your eyes they need to completely revolutionize the sport? Do you not think that sounds like a ridiculously high standard for viability? What's wrong with being competitive? What's wrong with allowing the racing industry to cast off the mantle of wasting resources and adding to pollution in the eyes of many people who aren't in to motorsports? What's wrong with using racing to further developments in electricity for automotive applications, the exact same thing that motorsports did and does for gasoline and ICE?
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| # ¿ Dec 31, 2009 15:11 |
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redscare posted:We get it dude, you have a giant boner for electric bikes, despite the technology being completely in its infancy and anything truly streetable, that is with a useful range, is still vaporware or unobtainium. You can't ignore all the arguments against electric bikes just by saying BUT LOOK AT THE FUTURE. If we all kept looking for the future, we'd still be expecting flyin DeLoreans to be around in 5 years. Vaporware? You can buy one right now for under $8k that will take you 40 miles at 65mph. The arguments against electric bikes are against the current crop of electrics bikes and then extrapolated as if there will be no advancements. No one in this thread is saying "current electric bikes are crap". They are saying "all electric bikes are crap and I will never be interested in one" and I'd like to find out why. "I like shifting gears, even if I don't need to." "I like the sound of an ICE." The why, it seems, is something as dull as soul and passion no matter how much you protest otherwise unless a real argument is presented outside of those two things. Range and speed are real arguments against the current crop, but not against what we know the future holds.
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| # ¿ Dec 31, 2009 17:00 |
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Silver posted:Until they have a lighter, long range, easy to charge, affordable, and has the same or more performance than my CBR600RR, they can get hosed. And I don't see any electric bike coming out like that any time soon. Well, they hit most of those currently. The heaviest one I know of is 324lbs, they all charge in 4 hours from a standard wall outlet, and the affordable models are $8k and $9k currently. What we're waiting on is battery technology to improve enough to allow range and power. They can do power, but not range right now. With the amount of money going in to this field I don't see it being too awful long before we see a breakthrough in battery longevity. I'd bet that in 5 to 10 years we'll see 150mph and 500 mile capable machines. We're already past that speed barrier, we just need to get the distance.
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| # ¿ Dec 31, 2009 17:37 |
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redscare posted:Oh and one thing nobody's brought up is weight. Batteries are loving heavy. I know I'm skipping a bunch of poo poo to answer this, but all of the others have been addressed already and are making the same arguments over and over. This has been addressed as well, but I don't want someone skimming the thread to read this and think you have a point. The current heaviest electric bike with a decent range and top speed weighs 324lbs.
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| # ¿ Jan 1, 2010 06:31 |
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Z3n posted:What is "decent" range and speed? Is it greater than 1/2 of the top speed and range of a stock 600? "Explosions! In my engine bay? No sir, I'll stick with what I know; safe, reliable steam."
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| # ¿ Jan 1, 2010 07:12 |
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Z3n posted:You're a fantastic advocate for the future You're a fantastic example of a person who resists change and advancement by making completely unreasonable requests of new technology. Phat_Albert posted:How is that an unreasonable request? Since when is a new technology expected to be instantly better than the technology it is going to replace? Since when are sportbikes the bar to which other bikes are measured? Electric bikes are currently targeting the commuter market, not the hardcore racer wannabe who puts 100 miles per year on his 200hp race replica. Why in the world would you judge a commuter product against a race replica? Are Bandits considered poo poo because they don't put down the same times around Laguna Seca as a GSX-R 1000? Silver posted:Well, to be fair when gas was coming out it wasn't like they were going "Check out this poo poo, it costs about the same, won't get you anywhere close to the range you get with steam, then you can't just pour some more water in it and go again you have to wait 4 hours, but in 10 years it's gone be awesome!" When ICE engines came out the steam car companies did indeed run a smear campaign warning people of explosions, fuel that goes bad after sitting for awhile, no distribution network with which you could refuel your ICE equipped vehicle, overly complicated and messy engines, and a complete lack of performance and range compared to steam.
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| # ¿ Jan 1, 2010 20:20 |
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I guess I'm just being misunderstood since most of you are bringing up the same points again and again. You can be excited for the possibilities of a technology while not being in love with what is currently available. I'm excited for the possibilities of instant power, longer range than currently available on a single "fill up", effortless engine swaps and power upgrades, improved public image due to no longer being a public nuisance and gross sound polluter, etc... Either way, I got my answer. The majority of CA doesn't give a poo poo about electric bikes until they perform like a super sport, have the range of a cruiser, and can triple the whoops like a supercross bike. Oh, they also need to sound like ICE equipped bikes as well as having a transmission so you can feel like you are a part of the soul and passion. phishnut posted:I think a viable electric dirt-bike would be pretty exciting... Imagine tearing up trails on a (nearly) silent motorcycle without pissing off any angry hill-billies, rednecks, gun-nuts, land-owners, conservationists, etc, etc... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBJqrXuujPM
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| # ¿ Jan 5, 2010 18:37 |
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blugu64 posted:Do electric bikes use a chain/shaft drive? Most use a chain.
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| # ¿ Jan 5, 2010 18:48 |
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KozmoNaut posted:I for one can't wait to see what the future brings. Necessity is the mother of invention and we need more and better options within the next 20-30 years. I'm sorry but there is no in between period during a technological advancement. We go from nothing to cutting edge immediately.
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| # ¿ Jan 6, 2010 15:35 |
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Hmmm, would a diesel rotary work? A turbo diesel rotary could be hilarious in a bike.
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| # ¿ Jan 6, 2010 16:01 |
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Z3n posted:I guess what it comes down to is paying a huge additional cost just to have additional limitations on when and how far I can ride just isn't worth it to me, especially when it comes with no other advantages. Being able to out-smug Prius owners is an advantage; also all the hippie tail you can handle.
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| # ¿ Jan 7, 2010 17:18 |
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Z3n posted:I can already out smug prius owners...I bicycle to work. But you can't go 500 miles are your bicycle while taking your friends and running errands thus proving that bicycles aren't ready for prime time just yet. 
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| # ¿ Jan 7, 2010 18:10 |
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redscare posted:The correct answer is that Kawasaki needs to make a civilian version of that diesel KLR. I would buy one yesterday. So you can have less choices on where to fill up with absolutely no advantages over its gasoline counterpart? Diesel bikes make sense for the military since all of there vehicles run on diesel, but diesel bikes make no sense for civilians.
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| # ¿ Jan 7, 2010 18:23 |
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redscare posted:You mean besides diesel being cheaper and the diesel KLR getting almost 100 mpg? Whatever you say pal. Where is diesel cheaper than gas? That hasn't been true in this region for a few years now.
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| # ¿ Jan 7, 2010 18:41 |
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redscare posted:I wonder how long it would take to ride an e-bike across Russia. Would you need an adapter to charge with 220 volts? Nope, they all come with the ability to charge off of 220 and as a bonus they charge in half the time when using 220.
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| # ¿ Jan 7, 2010 18:42 |
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Z3n posted:CA? It seems like diesel here lags about 6 months to 1 year behind pricing of gasoline. There was a point where it was more expensive but now it's cheaper again. niethan posted:Diesel has been consistently cheaper than gas here in europe since I can remember. Like 5/6 the price Weird. Diesel is $.10 to $.20 more expensive per gallon than regular gas in the southeast USA and has been for a few years now.
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| # ¿ Jan 7, 2010 19:12 |
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$25k for a new car? Pfft! Call me when you can make a car cheaper than $500! *sputters off in my 1988 Corsica* Zen, why do you have standards for electric bikes that even ICE bikes don't live up to?
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| # ¿ Jan 7, 2010 21:22 |
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Z3n posted:What standards do I have that even ICE bikes don't live up to? quote:There is no touring electric. There probably never will be. “Drill for oil? You mean drill into the ground to try and find oil? You’re crazy.” — Associates of Edwin L. Drake, refusing his suggestion, 1859
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| # ¿ Jan 7, 2010 23:09 |
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Z3n posted:Alright, let's put it into terms that are a little easier for you to understand: Why not? If you swap the battery it can. Gasoline used to not have a widespread distribution network in place either. What makes you think that electricity, which already has a leg up on gasoline as the infrastructure is already in place, will never have the distribution that gasoline currently enjoys? quote:Can a gas engine do this? Yes. That you have to fill it up doesn't really matter because a fill up on a ICE takes 5 minutes. I prefer bikes that I can go 200 miles at a fill on, but even if I have to fill every 100 miles that's not the end of the world, because it's only 5 minutes. A "quick" (partial) charge on a ICE is still an hour and a half. 45 minutes, I guess, if you're running 220, and then you can still probably only go 20-40 miles. So if you were in a place with 220, if you were on and off the bike instantly and had it instantly plugged in, in the best possible world, it'd take you 2 hours to go 60 miles. It'd take you 16 hours of riding to go 480 miles, at an average speed of 30mph. Truly, the future of touring! You don't get standardized batteries until you get a battery worth standardizing. You don't get a battery worth standardizing without R&D money. You don't get R&D money out of thin air. How do you expect these companies to produce anything worth while without selling a product? I know you're a Californian and all so you expect the government to pay for everything, but that's not how it works in the real world. Decry the lowly current state of the electric vehicle market if you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you're clinging to a dying vehicle. Refusing to believe that alternative fuel will ever be viable shows an extreme lack of foresight on your part and is the chief reason I keep bringing up all of those old steam/gasoline quotes and comparisons from years ago. Electricity is your new god. The auto industry is moving towards it whether you like it or not. You can either embrace that fact now and start learning the intricacies of these new machines or you can end up being that guy at the parts store who does nothing but complain about all them drat wires in his engine compartment and how fuel injection is the devil's work.
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| # ¿ Jan 8, 2010 14:51 |
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Z3n posted:Yes, most of the time I go riding I travel 10 miles to work and back. But not having the freedom to hop on that bike and go 200 miles is where the problem lies. This is the exact same excuse that bros and soccer moms use for driving 4x4 trucks and SUVs.
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| # ¿ Jan 14, 2010 19:31 |
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Z3n posted:I guess we should probably take away your project and replace it with an electric car because it's pretty much never going to be used for anything but short trips either...like the trip from the garage to the front yard and back I'm not sure why you can't comprehend having an electric for daily commuting and a gas engine for fun on the weekend (until electrics have more parity with gas engines for distance and power). You don't own only one motorcycle so what makes you think you'd only be able to have one vehicle if you bought an electric powered vehicle?
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| # ¿ Jan 14, 2010 20:56 |
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Z3n posted:Still, I get more excited watching that video than I do anything else about electrics. The potential exists, it's just not really there yet. But it is cool to see it develop. ....! ............! THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS loving THREAD YOU loving LUMMOX! YOU'VE BICKERED AT EVERY loving TURN ABOUT ELECTRICS AND THIS WAS THE EXACT loving POINT I WAS MAKING! gently caress!
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| # ¿ Jan 19, 2010 00:40 |
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Z3n posted:And you were painting us all as luddites for not thinking that electrics are going to replace everything and we're all going to run around on all electrics, all the time. Look at you. Just reread what I posted and then read your response and see if you can find what is wrong.
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| # ¿ Jan 19, 2010 01:05 |
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2ndclasscitizen posted:http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2...1g1tal-dr1.html It's almost like they are doing exactly what people earlier in this thread said they couldn't re: hot swappable batteries and drop in power upgrades!
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| # ¿ Feb 28, 2010 05:35 |
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It's really amazing how fast they're getting the recharge times down. Next thing to shoot for is range and then power.
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| # ¿ Mar 27, 2010 02:11 |
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No idea. Maybe it's like the others and range is rated at a cruising speed, but you can punch it when you want at the expense of range?
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| # ¿ Mar 27, 2010 04:32 |
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Phat_Albert posted:Thanks for recapping what we've already hashed to death. The last paragraph of the OP is: "At any rate, please tell me that there are other people who can't wait for the price to come down a little more and the range to go up a bit. I mean, how could you possibly not want to throw your leg over a loving real life tie fighter?" Why you, and a couple of others, completely missed the entire point and decided to direct your vitriol at it I'll never know. I thought we had gotten past that and were now discussing electric bikes like grown ups?
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| # ¿ Mar 29, 2010 21:29 |
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Z3n posted:Out of curiosity, have you ever ridden an ICE motorcycle with similar specs to your electric one in terms of weight, power, and suspension setup? We're going to drag your rear end kicking and screaming into the future. You can fight it all you want, but it's going to happen. 
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| # ¿ May 26, 2010 15:31 |
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Imagine how much you could scare retards by having the electric bike race in the rain!
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| # ¿ May 26, 2010 17:20 |
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Mission One flyby. http://blip.tv/file/3666207/
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| # ¿ Jun 2, 2010 16:10 |
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Why doesn't it have a kickstand? I really hope electric bike manufacturers start including an inertia reel cord built into the bike. It would be a pain having to coil and store the cord every time you want to ride.
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| # ¿ Jul 16, 2010 15:43 |
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Z3n posted:And I don't know why you'd want to store the cord on the bike at all...from the other pictures there's a plug in the top of the tank. Because you're going to need a cord anyway, so why not build it into the bike? An added bonus is you could ensure you have a cord of the correct gauge. Otherwise you're going to get sued into bankruptcy when some moron tries to use some little WalMart extension cord and burns down their house. quote:Still, this is starting to get exciting. If they can get a 100 mile range at 100mph (which I'm pretty sure isn't what they mean), then that should actually give you a decent range under normal use. I'm glad you finally see it my way. I'm still unsure why people got so bent out of shape and misunderstood what I was trying to convey (the possibility of these things, not what we currently have, is really cool) originally, but it probably has something to do with the fact that I'm an rear end in a top hat.
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| # ¿ Jul 16, 2010 16:52 |
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Z3n posted:The unintentional side effect of riding Spiffness and Zool's KTM690s is that it's gotten me REALLY excited for the KTM electric sumo. Most of the riding that we did was sub 100 miles, and a lot of that time was spent screwing around relatively close to home at low speeds where the limited top speed of the electrics wouldn't be a big deal. The idea of having an oversized, overbuilt bicycle with a small electric would be insanely badass, a hooligan's trials bike. I'm pretty sure they would just revoke your license as soon as you sign the papers for your 180lb motard.
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| # ¿ Jul 16, 2010 22:12 |
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What kind of range does the Mission One have?
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| # ¿ Oct 14, 2010 20:33 |
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| # ¿ May 25, 2013 19:40 |
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It makes me happy to see some of you changing your opinions from where they were when this thread started.  I know I can be an abrasive rear end in a top hat, but I'm working on it.
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| # ¿ Feb 14, 2011 20:00 |
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