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When all these leveraged etfs get close to zero, what are they going to do with them? Reset, inverse splits? VXX looks like it is going to zero as well, even though it isn't really "leveraged". I think the way its price is derived (short term futures and some handwaving?) might make it susceptible to that same "Volatility Decay" as leveraged etfs. That "ibankcoin" guy sure loves holding onto his vxx for months and months though. edit - found this http://vixandmore.blogspot.com/2009/05/vxx-calculations-vix-futures-and-time.html Looks like price erosion isn't really due to "volatility decay" like the leveraged etfs, but more due to the constant rollover of the short term future contracts, and their normal upward sloping (contango) trend. this is kind of interesting too http://www.bestcashcow.com/stocks_-_options_-_mutual_funds/article/surlytrader/hedging-equities-with-vix-futures-vxx-and-vxz shorting 1 share of vxx for every 2 shares of vxz purchased would have made about $50 per, since jan 09 when they were introduced. As well as giving you a bit of a net volatility hedge. Thoughts? Baddog fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Jul 26, 2010 |
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Jul 26, 2010 20:13
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I haven't seen any go anywhere near zero but I have seen them reverse split frequently. (fas/faz) come to mind.
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Jul 26, 2010 20:29
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ChubbyEmoBabe posted:I haven't seen any go anywhere near zero but I have seen them reverse split frequently. (fas/faz) come to mind. wow, faz is crazy, thats some serious decay right there. 1452 to 14.
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Jul 26, 2010 20:33
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Faz was my ray of hope in a world of poo poo last year so I can't hate on it 
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Jul 26, 2010 20:38
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If anyones looking for serious Long term profits, all be it with some volatility, check out the European banks. LYG (brit) and AIB (irish) are my two favorites. AIB especially. They're both way down where our banks were at the bottom of the recession in the states, so I would prophecy that in about 1-2 years they'll be at around 5-10 times current levels.
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Jul 27, 2010 00:44
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skindepth posted:If anyones looking for serious Long term profits, all be it with some volatility, check out the European banks. LYG (brit) and AIB (irish) are my two favorites. AIB especially. They're both way down where our banks were at the bottom of the recession in the states, so I would prophecy that in about 1-2 years they'll be at around 5-10 times current levels.
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Jul 27, 2010 02:08
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Baddog posted:You sound like such a child of privilege, but your dad only has 500k saved up? Or is he just giving you access to part of his savings? I mean, if that's it, you aren't really that far above "most people". This is play money to him. If I lose it all it will have no effect on either of our financial lives. For reference, he makes more than that, post-tax, per annum. I and he have Panamanian citizenships with which to keep our savings. We're not hurting. Edit: For more reference, he's bought girlfriend 1 two houses, two cars, put her through law school, and bought her ex husband a house just to show how baller he is. Girlfriend 2 he bought just a car. #3 got a house. He ought a $400k condo he rents out for 2500 a month, and paid the morgage off in under 9 months. Nothing I can gently caress up would even dent our wealth. The banks in Panama are AFRAID of my grandmother, she has on more than one occasion walked into her bank and threatened to withdraw all funds if they didn't give her a higher (reasonable, but still higher) interest rate. THey've never let her walk, she got it every time. I've never heard of anyone even trying that before with a bank, much less ones in tax haven countries. The balls that woman has. She lives on an entire floor of a condo here, and owns several other buildings in the neighborhood. Beachfront, most exclusive residential area in Panama. 500k isn't poo poo to us, stop worrying about me loving up my family's future or something. This is better than being handed a trust fund, right? I get to learn and actually do something to earn the money I'll be getting anyway. I'm the only son of an only son. Nowhere else for it all to go, so I need to learn, might as well be trial by fire since it's the fastest way. I wasted years being a heroin addict, I gotta catch up to what I need to know to manage my family fortune. Method Loser fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Jul 27, 2010 |
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Jul 27, 2010 02:44
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Would you kindly pay off my house before you blow that 500k? I would be eternally grateful...
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Jul 27, 2010 03:05
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SouthShoreSamurai posted:Would you kindly pay off my house before you blow that 500k? Hell, the equity would probably be a better investment than handing $500k to somebody with no concept of money management or experience in the market.
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Jul 27, 2010 03:16
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SouthShoreSamurai posted:Would you kindly pay off my house before you blow that 500k? I don't think that's how you increase the amount of money you have 
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Jul 27, 2010 03:18
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Method Loser posted:I don't think that's how you increase the amount of money you have Diving into the market with no experience beyond what buzzwords mean isn't a way of increasing the amount of money you have either.
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Jul 27, 2010 03:21
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Method Loser posted:I don't think that's how you increase the amount of money you have No, buying me a house would definitely increase the amount of money I have.
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Jul 27, 2010 03:24
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I notice you all are criticizing me here, but if you're so much better, why don't you post your investments and returns? I mean, I sold 2k stocks of F I had at 10.08 for 12.97 today, netting a little under 6k in a little over 14 days. I'm not doing too terribly, even with a small sample size. I'm gonna keep playing, and if I lose, oh well I learn,and if I win, hooray I have more money and learned. It's win-win for me.
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Jul 27, 2010 03:27
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How about we don't turn the thread into a dick measuring contest
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Jul 27, 2010 03:34
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Method Loser posted:I notice you all are criticizing me here, but if you're so much better, why don't you post your investments and returns? I mean, I sold 2k stocks of F I had at 10.08 for 12.97 today, netting a little under 6k in a little over 14 days. I'm not doing too terribly, even with a small sample size. I'm gonna keep playing, and if I lose, oh well I learn,and if I win, hooray I have more money and learned. It's win-win for me. Nobody is criticizing you, we are simply telling you that you stand a very good chance of losing a huge amount of money because you are completely unprepared for trading the market. You have no risk management, no overall strategy other than "make money" and you have no idea what you are doing. You seem more interested in waving your dick around than actually attempting to learn anything from posters in this thread.
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Jul 27, 2010 03:35
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skindepth posted:If anyones looking for serious Long term profits, all be it with some volatility, check out the European banks. LYG (brit) and AIB (irish) are my two favorites. AIB especially. They're both way down where our banks were at the bottom of the recession in the states, so I would prophecy that in about 1-2 years they'll be at around 5-10 times current levels. Banks can go to 0, as proven by our recession. Not saying it's necessarily a bad bet but 500% to 1000% returns in two years is not without risks...
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Jul 27, 2010 03:35
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Tasty and Delicious posted:How about we don't turn the thread into a dick measuring contest I didn't want to, but people dont understand I want to learn, not put it in some drat mutual fund and slowly watch it grow. Trial by fire, right here. Vatek posted:Nobody is criticizing you, we are simply telling you that you stand a very good chance of losing a huge amount of money because you are completely unprepared for trading the market. You have no risk management, no overall strategy other than "make money" and you have no idea what you are doing. Did I not make it obvious I know full well I probably will lose a lot? I know that. I want to learn. That is all. This is the fastest way I can think of doing so. I don't want to brag, but I want you to understand this money is meaningless to me.
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Jul 27, 2010 03:35
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I went through trial by fire and I lost a bunch of money and it sucked. Losing more than I was comfortable with losing was probably the best thing that ever happened to me.
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Jul 27, 2010 03:37
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Method Loser posted:I didn't want to, but people dont understand I want to learn, not put it in some drat mutual fund and slowly watch it grow. Trial by fire, right here. The idea is to put it in a mutual fund and take 6 months to learn before you trade real money. You learn nothing by throwing money at random stocks and hoping for winners because you don't even understand the fundamentals of the market, so if (when) you lose you don't even know why you lost. If you're not interested in listening to what anyone in here has to say, why are you even posting in this thread? Vatek fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Jul 27, 2010 |
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Jul 27, 2010 03:37
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Actually, know what, I apologize for loving up your thread. You guys and I aren't on the same page, and as such, I don't belong here, I'll go back to doing it on my own. I wish you all the best, I'm out.
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Jul 27, 2010 03:40
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Hobologist posted:No, buying me a house would definitely increase the amount of money I have. Dammit, you beat me to it...
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Jul 27, 2010 04:10
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Method Loser posted:
This is why I said what I said. You could learn exactly the same thing doing what you're doing with pretend money, because it means exactly the same to you. Meanwhile, that money would be obscenely beneficial to someone like me. It hurts to see it wasted so uselessly.
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Jul 27, 2010 04:12
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Method Loser posted:Actually, know what, I apologize for loving up your thread. You guys and I aren't on the same page, and as such, I don't belong here, I'll go back to doing it on my own. I wish you all the best, I'm out.
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Jul 27, 2010 04:26
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The solution is this: Method posts all his trades and then you guys "fade" them, taking his losses as your profits. If you all work together you will have in effect transferred a large part of his money to yourselves.
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Jul 27, 2010 04:31
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Radd McCool posted:I hope you're better at managing money than cultural disconnects! Haha but managing cultural disconnects doesn't make money, plebeian!
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Jul 27, 2010 05:08
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That was fun. I wish he'd stayed.
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Jul 27, 2010 05:10
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If he can post real evidence of an actual trade (to match the numbers) beyond a Google portfolio I'll post my zecco holdings screenshot (with personal information removed of course). It was a good troll though. E:Fwiw that wasn't me saying I was in the black. ChubbyEmoBabe fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Jul 27, 2010 |
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Jul 27, 2010 05:40
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I'm not really sure what you guys want from him anyway - a 4 year degree in trading or something? The market has no "fundamentals." Or if it does, no 2 of you would actually agree on what those fundamentals are. If you were making bets based on what I consider fundamentals you would have lost 10 out of the last 11 years.
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Jul 27, 2010 05:55
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is the dick measuring contest over yet?
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Jul 27, 2010 06:00
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My portfolio outperformed the S&P 500 by 0.01% today. 
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Jul 27, 2010 06:03
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Those heroin addicts can be so emotionally volatile! ...I hope we didn't inspire an ego-beaten relapse.
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Jul 27, 2010 06:06
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What are bulls' thoughts on the S&P? I sold off part of my position today, mostly twiddling my thumbs as it dances around in slightly overbought territory.
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Jul 27, 2010 07:24
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This is why it is so hard to sustain generational wealth. Your kids turn out to be snot-nosed little drug addicts with absolutely no loving clue, in need of a good throat punching, spewing money left and right.
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Jul 27, 2010 07:32
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Tasty and Delicious posted:What are bulls' thoughts on the S&P? I sold off part of my position today, mostly twiddling my thumbs as it dances around in slightly overbought territory. I kind of want to hedge a bit, but I don't want to hold VXX or any leveraged shorts due to my post up there. I'm kind of tempted to do that "buy 2000 vxz, sell 1000 vxx" thing though.
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Jul 27, 2010 07:35
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am I the only one who noticed the 5% drop in NFLX today? I hear people are screaming that it's oversold and there are also people who are screaming that it's over valued. see you guys in 3 weeks or less when I  or  for NFLX
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Jul 27, 2010 09:02
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Tasty and Delicious posted:What are bulls' thoughts on the S&P? Bullish.
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Jul 27, 2010 09:14
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Baddog posted:I kind of want to hedge a bit, but I don't want to hold VXX or any leveraged shorts due to my post up there. A pair trade in VXZ/VXX probably isn't going to do what you think it will. VXX also can swing from ETB to HTB quickly and your short shares may get called back at an inopportune time. If you simply want a hedge what's wrong with writing calls or buying puts?
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Jul 27, 2010 14:08
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DancingMachine posted:I'm not really sure what you guys want from him anyway - a 4 year degree in trading or something? The market has no "fundamentals." Or if it does, no 2 of you would actually agree on what those fundamentals are. If you were making bets based on what I consider fundamentals you would have lost 10 out of the last 11 years. I think the problem was that he basically came in and spit in everyones faces and then wondered why we didn't kiss his rear end. Nobody cares if he (or in his case, his dad) is extremely rich and can afford to play with 6 figures.
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Jul 27, 2010 15:22
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ChubbyEmoBabe posted:Back on topic: I don't know why I can't find this: It is a very popular technology etf and it's not based off of RITEC.X. Any help? XLK?
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Jul 27, 2010 15:27
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To see how absurd these 'cloud computing' companies trade compare VECO's quarter to SFSF's quarter and realize they have nearly the same market cap. Specifically look at revenue for both. I stand by the fact these cloud companies are in a bubble. Well either that or VECO is a screaming buy.
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Jul 27, 2010 15:29
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