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To be fair, automotive software development is still stuck in 1995 if the anecdotes earlier in the thread are anything to go by.
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Jul 2, 2015 11:59
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Friar Zucchini posted:Cars oughta be the same, with a standard layout, the only differences depending on the options, like for cars with or without automatic temperature control or a CD player or adaptive cruise control, and other than that just adjust the styling and materials. Do you set the standards for an Escalade, which has a massive 24" vertical center stack and nothing aft of it, a Prius, which has a gently sloping center console with a tiny floppy shifter and some cupholders, or a Miata, which has a 9" square center console blocked by the gear shift?
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Jul 2, 2015 17:49
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Yeah, what my car really needs is a feature that pops the hood while I'm flipping off the guy who just cut me off.
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Jul 2, 2015 18:38
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Cocoa Crispies posted:Do you set the standards for an Escalade, which has a massive 24" vertical center stack and nothing aft of it, a Prius, which has a gently sloping center console with a tiny floppy shifter and some cupholders, or a Miata, which has a 9" square center console blocked by the gear shift? Just put the Nissan Quest interior in everything, it'll be equally hideous and fit any car. 
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Jul 2, 2015 18:40
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I realize minivans are low-effort vehicles for low-effort people, but goddamn Nissan at least try a tiny bit.
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Jul 2, 2015 18:45
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Honestly, natural language recognition has more or less made this a solved problem. The only hitch is that automotive manufacturers are so behind on the curve that they don't have the processing or code necessary to implement it well. They should be able to plop a "listen" button on the steering wheel and call it a day. I can ask Google now a complex natural language question and have it recognize the phrase with 99.9% accuracy, but most car systems stumble on "Play artist".
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Jul 2, 2015 18:45
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bull3964 posted:Honestly, natural language recognition has more or less made this a solved problem. The only hitch is that automotive manufacturers are so behind on the curve that they don't have the processing or code necessary to implement it well. They should be able to plop a "listen" button on the steering wheel and call it a day. I can ask Google now a complex natural language question and have it recognize the phrase with 99.9% accuracy, but most car systems stumble on "Play artist". The trick with Google now, Siri, and Cortana being able to interpret more than a handful of canned phrases is that your phone is doing 0% of the processing - all the smartphone voice recognition stuff sends the data to big server farms to do the analysis of the sounds to figure out what you're saying; in order to get that same level of voice recognition in a car, you'd either have to pay a monthly data subscription for your car (a-la GM's On-Star) or you'd have to install a server rack somewhere in the car with enough processing power and storage to crunch and interpret tens of thousands of words and parse sentence structure. Doing the former would mean that without a paid data connection, you would be unable to control your radio or HVAC; the latter would make cars even heavier and more expensive than they already are. This is why most in-car voice recognition has 20 or so short phrases that it 'learns' you saying and then just does a simple comparision between what you're saying and the phrases it's previously 'learned' from you.
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Jul 2, 2015 18:54
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fknlo posted:Yeah, what my car really needs is a feature that pops the hood while I'm flipping off the guy who just cut me off. Someone cut you off in traffic while it's pouring rain? What you really want is an open sunroof.
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Jul 2, 2015 19:01
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bull3964 posted:Honestly, natural language recognition has more or less made this a solved problem. The only hitch is that automotive manufacturers are so behind on the curve that they don't have the processing or code necessary to implement it well. They should be able to plop a "listen" button on the steering wheel and call it a day. I can ask Google now a complex natural language question and have it recognize the phrase with 99.9% accuracy, but most car systems stumble on "Play artist". Audio poo poo on cars is funtimes too, as part of your new fangled voice recognition system you need to make it work in your top of the line car. With the roof down. At 90mph. Because your customers have paid $80k for your car so it should just work whenever they want it to. A car interior is a seriously awkward environment to work with acoustically so I can kinda understand that poo poo not working properly if the software design isn't perfect along with the mic tech and signal processing. It's a little more complicated than working on a mobile phone. Same basic principle but a far more hostile environment.
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Jul 2, 2015 19:19
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88h88 posted:Audio poo poo on cars is funtimes too, as part of your new fangled voice recognition system you need to make it work in your top of the line car. With the roof down. At 90mph. Because your customers have paid $80k for your car so it should just work whenever they want it to. Lol this poo poo still doesn't work on £200k cars.
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Jul 2, 2015 19:33
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HotCanadianChick posted:The trick with Google now, Siri, and Cortana being able to interpret more than a handful of canned phrases is that your phone is doing 0% of the processing - all the smartphone voice recognition stuff sends the data to big server farms to do the analysis of the sounds to figure out what you're saying; in order to get that same level of voice recognition in a car, you'd either have to pay a monthly data subscription for your car (a-la GM's On-Star) or you'd have to install a server rack somewhere in the car with enough processing power and storage to crunch and interpret tens of thousands of words and parse sentence structure. Doing the former would mean that without a paid data connection, you would be unable to control your radio or HVAC; the latter would make cars even heavier and more expensive than they already are. Offline voice recognition has been a thing on Android since Jellybean actually. It still uses server side for more processing power, but it works quite well locally as well. That's also full on natural phrase recognition. Infotainment systems should easily be able to do offline recognition of a set phrasebook a lot better than they do today. 88h88 posted:Audio poo poo on cars is funtimes too, as part of your new fangled voice recognition system you need to make it work in your top of the line car. With the roof down. At 90mph. Because your customers have paid $80k for your car so it should just work whenever they want it to. They also probably expect their newfangled touchscreen or gesture knob to work when they have gloves on too, but it ain't happening. The point is, things CAN be better to the point where it's not an issue most of the time but it's not because car makers are perpetually 10 years behind on technology for anything that interacts with the user.
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Jul 2, 2015 19:51
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I just want automakers to accept that I don't want their godamned entertainment package: I literally carry it around in my pocket, and update it almost every year with new hardware, and continually with new software designed by people who are actually competent at software design. Just give me a good quality screen, mic, and speakers, and a proper full-featured interface with iOS/Android and be done with it.
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Jul 2, 2015 21:39
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I hard a thing recently that some very high - 40%+ of "problems" on the JD Powers 90 day survey are due to the voice control feature, and that a big reason why Porsche stays so high in the rankings on that survey are because they make voice recognition a $700 option on every single car, so that most people can choose to not have it and never complain, while BMW is actively removing it as a standard feature on many cars because that alone was dropping them several ranks on reliability surveys.
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Jul 2, 2015 22:03
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bull3964 posted:Honestly, natural language recognition has more or less made this a solved problem.
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Jul 2, 2015 22:52
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Well, you got the important bits. Bad example anyways since voicemail transcription often involves real people.
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Jul 2, 2015 23:08
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for a 6 pack i tried to train a friend who is Austrian on how to speak American so his car would understand him and nope
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Jul 3, 2015 00:14
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Hell, Siri can't understand my mom, who has a degree in English and is from north Florida. Aside from the lack of processing power, car voice recognition has another serious problem: Cars are noisy, moving, and often contain more than one human who makes sounds. It's pretty much the worst environment to try to recognize speech in. I hope the JD Power survey actually forces car manufacturers to actually put some engineering into this stuff. Compared to an actual car, software should be incredibly fast to prototype, iterate, and polish. You have to approach it that way, though, rather than trying to throw a price at a vendor for a one-time purchase like it's a radiator. Hire great UX engineers, pay them well, let them do their poo poo, get a good car UI.
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Jul 3, 2015 04:24
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And maybe let people bring their cars in to flash to newer, better-performing software packages for the duration of the warranty perioh my god I can't finish typing that with a straight face.
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Jul 3, 2015 04:29
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Enourmo posted:And maybe let people bring their cars in to flash to newer, better-performing software packages for the duration of the warranty perioh my god I can't finish typing that with a straight face. That would make sense and build brand goodwill , and that sir is communist thinking
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Jul 3, 2015 04:34
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Uh... do most not? As maligned as Ford is they do, or you can just download it yourself to a USB stick.
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Jul 3, 2015 05:41
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tetrapyloctomy posted:My mother-in-law is Vietnamese. She left an English voice message on my wife's phone a few months back and voice-to-text translated it as "hi hi hi hi hi hi hi (wife's name), hi hi hi hi hi (my name), hi hi hi hi hi hi love you bye." I think she called me the other day: 
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Jul 3, 2015 05:51
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MrYenko posted:I just want automakers to accept that I don't want their godamned entertainment package: I literally carry it around in my pocket, and update it almost every year with new hardware, and continually with new software designed by people who are actually competent at software design. New cars are doing this now with apple carplay and whatever the Android version is called
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Jul 3, 2015 12:23
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MrChips posted:BMW's doing gesture control in the new 7-Series, where you don't even touch the screen either! Gesture controls are bad because they have zero discoverability and nobody is going to memorize a list of gnomic hand gestures to operate the radio on their car.
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Jul 3, 2015 12:25
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corn in the fridge posted:Lol this poo poo still doesn't work on £200k cars. And that's my point!
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Jul 3, 2015 12:33
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Funny what happens when you are running generations old technology with software written by not software companies. I can respond to texts speaking into my watch with the radio on and going 70 mph down the highway with the windows down. The tech is there.
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Jul 3, 2015 15:56
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bull3964 posted:Funny what happens when you are running generations old technology with software written by not software companies. Are you Vietnamese?
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Jul 3, 2015 16:11
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No, but I'm from Pittsburgh.
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Jul 3, 2015 16:33
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I just want real loving knobs and switches on my dashboard that control the HVAC/Radio/trunk mounted Hellfire missiles, the screen should be mounted far enough back on the dash I can't even touch it without moving out of my driving position. Until manufacturers figure this out they won't get a dime from me.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:29
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Terrible Robot posted:I just want real loving knobs and switches on my dashboard that control the HVAC/Radio/trunk mounted Hellfire missiles, the screen should be mounted far enough back on the dash I can't even touch it without moving out of my driving position. Until manufacturers figure this out they won't get a dime from me. As a rule, the vast majority of people disagree with you. Tons of people want to fiddle with their touchscreens while they're supposed to be driving.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:36
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KakerMix posted:I'm cool with the screens being in the dashboard, but the sitting-on-top thing just looks bad to me, and like was said already, is going to be a thing that dates cars. There are some not-inconsiderable physics problems to solve before full-windscreen HUDs are possible, according to people I have spoken to at GM, Jaguar, and DENSO.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:56
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KillHour posted:As a rule, the vast majority of people disagree with you. Tons of people want to fiddle with their touchscreens while they're supposed to be driving. Also this. The reason every car is now coming with a gigantic screen in it is because focus groups keep telling the OEMs that they want them there.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:56
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Which is why OEMs need to rely less on focus groups.
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Jul 4, 2015 02:30
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Sync in my Mustang understands me fine. Take the marbles out of your mouths. 
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Jul 4, 2015 02:31
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Out of the three autos in my garage (2014 Fusion, 2014 Santa Fe, 2014 Frontier), the voice controls on the Fusion the best by a W I D E margin, then Santa Fe, then Frontier waaaay in the back. I have way way less complaints about the Ford Sync than I do the others.
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Jul 4, 2015 04:52
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Presto posted:Sync in my Mustang understands me fine. Take the marbles out of your mouths.
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Jul 4, 2015 05:16
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Mr. Apollo posted:Yeah I don't know anyone who has issues with their voice control in their cars either. Most cars I've been I have a training mode which has you speak specific phrases which it then uses in understanding your speech patterns. The problem with this is that it does not allow for the natural language parsing that things like Google Now and Siri do. The systems that require you to 'train' them just compare what you say to the pre-sampled phrases it had you say, and pick whichever phrase in it's memory is the closest match. But you can't, for example, say an arbitrary phrase like "find me the nearest movie theater showing Mad Max" like you can with something like Siri that actually analyzes and parses natural language as opposed to canned phrases, which was what people were talking about wanting.
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Jul 4, 2015 10:33
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Zorak of Michigan posted:Which is why OEMs need to rely less on focus groups. I sell cars for a living and it's not just focus groups that want big touch screens in all cars. 90% of my customers would prefer a bigger fancy touch screen over a small one as long as it didn't add thousands to their price. Congratulations on being part of the small minority of car buyers I guess.
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Jul 4, 2015 16:30
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Terrible Robot posted:I just want real loving knobs and switches on my dashboard that control the HVAC/Radio/trunk mounted Hellfire missiles, the screen should be mounted far enough back on the dash I can't even touch it without moving out of my driving position. Until manufacturers figure this out they won't get a dime from me. Me too. Makes me feel like a  .
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Jul 4, 2015 17:51
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big touchscreen screams fancy and expensive and that is literally all mr and mrs joe carbuyer car about see: escalade
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Jul 4, 2015 18:29
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I want a big touchscreen. I don't even know why, I just do.
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Jul 4, 2015 18:31
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