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Liface posted:As far as I know, drinking water has little to no effect on water weight.
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| # ? Jun 10, 2010 23:39 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 20:38 |
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Zugzwang posted:People with experience in water manipulation (e.g. bodybuilders, coaches) seem to think that drinking a lot of water can cause water weight to go down, since your body will quit holding on to excess stores if it thinks your supply is good. well, at the very least, if you drink enough, you wash salts and minerals out of your body which are what help you hold on to water in the first place, so that makes sense even if it's not part of a regulated system.
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| # ? Jun 11, 2010 00:25 |
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krushgroove posted:That's interesting, thanks for the answers. Like I said, I drink loads of water every day and weigh myself pretty much every morning, after the toilet and before the shower. My GF is naturally worried that I've basically lost 2.5kg in 3 days, that's over 3 lbs. Is there anything to be concerned about? The proper Atkins diet suggests you could lose 6-10 lbs in the first week. water weight, nothing to worry about
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| # ? Jun 11, 2010 01:57 |
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Zugzwang posted:People with experience in water manipulation (e.g. bodybuilders, coaches) seem to think that drinking a lot of water can cause water weight to go down, since your body will quit holding on to excess stores if it thinks your supply is good. Yep. The trick is to drink more than adequate amount of water for weeks. Then, when it's time to get super ripped/make weight, you just STOP drinking water. Your body is still in the "pee every 30 minutes" mode, and will pee out the water in your system.
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| # ? Jun 15, 2010 17:19 |
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It's not quite the same thing, but I started the warrior diet using yesterday using Iron Addict's modifications.
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| # ? Jun 21, 2010 15:18 |
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Very informative thread. I have ruined my hip and knee and can do no real cardio or compound lifts for 8 weeks. I can do isolated upper body lifts and ride a cycle at a slowish speed and honestly that is it. Right over the summer too, can't surf, play golf, mountain bike, or anything, so brutal. Anyway, I was thinking about something like this to not get fatty (I've gained at least 10 pounds since I hosed it up 6 weeks ago). I did The Warrior Diet for about 10 days right before tax season and it was pretty cool, I loved actually eating bomb meals for dinner instead of the same chicken breasts and poo poo all the time. To be honest I didn't track what I ate very well, just ate fruit like 3x during the day, then in my go wild phase just made sure I ate a bunch of protein and called it straight. I figured if I always got 160g+ of protein during eating phase and ate cleanish food I'm probably doing OK. My favorite was going to the chinese buffet right after the gym and steamrolling it. I just couldn't maintain the diet with the hours during busy season (cpa  ) I figure since I cannot do much exercises now is a good time to give it another shot.
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| # ? Jun 22, 2010 00:23 |
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I've been doing IF for about 3 months, with varying degrees of commitment. I was able to go from 164lbs to 148lbs, although with graduating, senior week bar crawls, and moving back home, I'm hovering at 152 right now. I like it a lot and I haven't seen any of my lifts go down.
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| # ? Jun 22, 2010 00:38 |
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Where does drinking fit into this diet, or does it? I imagine drinking beer would be considered braking fast right? Although I guess it wouldn't matter much if you begin fasting once you go to sleep.
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| # ? Jul 12, 2010 00:40 |
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Brady posted:Where does drinking fit into this diet, or does it? I imagine drinking beer would be considered braking fast right? Although I guess it wouldn't matter much if you begin fasting once you go to sleep. 1) Occasionally eating outside your normal eating window isn't a big deal as long as you're still keeping your diet in check. Yes, beer counts as "eating" here. 2) Alcohol is about the most profound way to break the fast, because your body absolutely does not store any of it; unlike fat, which can happily get stored on its own, or carbs, which can go to glycogen, or protein, which can go to muscle, your body will just burn all the alcohol you consume for energy at the expense of burning anything else. So as your body's trying to get rid of the 400 calories (or whatever) of alcohol you just drank, it's not burning any other nutrients, which means it's not burning anything from your fat stores. That said, moderate amounts of alcohol can fit into a fat loss diet just fine, so long as you're keeping track of the calories and not drinking away your caloric deficit for the week. For a more complete look at how alcohol fits into all this goofy fitness poo poo we do, here's a great article on the topic. (Much as I'm loath to link to T-Nation, it's written by Alan Aragon, so bear with me here.) Zugzwang fucked around with this message at Jul 12, 2010 around 00:58 |
| # ? Jul 12, 2010 00:52 |
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This looks mighty interesting and much more convenient. So basically, I just split my macronurients for the day into 3 meals in a 8 hour window (will probably do 16/8) with more calories coming post-workout? And on non-workout days should I have the biggest meal first? I usually workout at about 7pm so I plan on doing first meal 1pm, 2nd meal 5-6pm and 3rd right after workout. And occasionally I may schedule a workout in the morning so for those instances can I just switch up the window so its biggest meal post-workout (say 10-11am) and then the next 2 smaller meals after.
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| # ? Jul 12, 2010 09:38 |
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There is a benefit to keeping when you eat consistent, from ghrelin, which basically will help you control hunger during your fast, but if switching it up occasionally works for you, more power to you. Working out is obviously more important than worrying about switching your window by a few hours.
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| # ? Jul 12, 2010 11:10 |
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One of the criticisms of IF I didn't mention in the OP is the long-term effects of elevated catecholamine/adrenaline levels, sometimes nebulously referred to as adrenal fatigue (discussed in further detail here:) http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com...-honeymoon.html http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com...nt-fasting.html In short, the claim is that if you keep your body in a perpetual high-adrenaline state (from fasting, low carb, high exercise, or whatever), your adrenal receptors become less sensitive and their effectiveness becomes blunted. The reason I wouldn't dismiss these claims outright is because it's true that every clinical trial that purports an advantage to short-term fasting looks at it through a 72-hour window and doesn't evaluate the long term effects of elevated catecholamines. At the same time, if you read the above articles, the actual basis for their claims sounds a lot like the pseudo-scientific meta-narratives about the body that get people to believe in things like detoxification and "stoking the metabolic fire," so I don't think it's conclusive one way or another- hence why I thought I'd open it up for discussion. I don't think it's a stretch to say that adrenal fatigue is a real condition- just ask someone like a stock trader or an air traffic controller. However, my concern is that when fat loss from IF slows (and believe me it will), a lot of people might attribute it to something like adrenal fatigue (possibly mistakenly). But that begs the question: what's the stress threshold for adrenal fatigue, and how do you know when you've hit it? Is it more determined by short-term (duration of a single fast) or long-term (number of fasting days in a month) factors? What types of recovery, in which amounts, are most important (sleep/off days, carb refeeds, big meals, etc.)? I'm not looking for an exact formula to drive optimal performance- I'm more looking for everyone's experience (or lack thereof) with adrenal fatigue on IF and/or the best ways to mitigate its effects, so please post your thoughts/experience. Also, this isn't meant to deter anyone from IF by any means- for what it's worth, even the critics all agree that Leangains probably has the best balance of catecholamine elevation and recovery through stuff like rest days, carb-ups, and eating like a fatass once in a while.
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| # ? Jul 13, 2010 16:09 |
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I'm on day 4 of IF, doing the 1-9pm feeding window. First two days were pretty horrible but yesterday I actually forgot to eat at 1. Doing this, plus ECA, plus min. 30 minutes fasted cardio in the morning as many days as possible. I'm already seeing results, surprisingly, but I'm trying to go from around 10% bf to 7-8%, so I don't have a terribly long way to go. I'm doing this because the meal every 2-3 hours thing just made me fat. Clean, meticulous eating too, and it didn't work. Everyone is different, and everyone's metabolism is different. I have an already high metabolism. I gain really slow, but I can't see any reason why my body would choose to keep this belly fat at the expense of muscle, when I lift as often and as hard as I do, just because I didn't eat for 5 hours or whatever. I just refuse to believe the body is that stupid after millions of years of evolution. Took some "before" photos so I'm going to evaluate this after 2 weeks or so.
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| # ? Jul 15, 2010 17:22 |
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I decided to give this a shot for a few weeks. Currently several days into a 16/8 split, and wow it feels pretty great. Here's my old eating/energy schedule: quote:7:30 Eat a healthy breakfast Basically I always end up being too hungry and too cranky in the late afternoon and evening. Here's roughly what I'm doing now: quote:7:30 Skip breakfast; surprised to find that I don't miss it at all. No cravings; just lots of water and a couple cups of coffee get me through the morning just fine. We'll see how this all holds up, but for now I feel pretty amazing. It remains to be seen whether I'll have any sort of accelerated fat loss, but I look forward to continuing the experiment. If nothing else my partner will appreciate me being less of a dick just before dinnertime when I'm normally about to gnaw the flesh off my own arm. Trustworthy fucked around with this message at Jul 21, 2010 around 17:16 |
| # ? Jul 21, 2010 17:08 |
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I get to eat again?! A much smaller meal than dinner, but this leaves me feeling satisfied throughout the rest of the evening and apparently carries me through the next morning.
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Does the feeding window have to be in the afternoon? If my feeding window was the first 4 hours after I woke up, would there be any negative impacts to this diet other than being hungry in the evening?
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| # ? Aug 12, 2010 04:26 |
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A Glum Plum posted:Does the feeding window have to be in the afternoon? If my feeding window was the first 4 hours after I woke up, would there be any negative impacts to this diet other than being hungry in the evening? The only thing I can think of is mostly related to the metabolic slowdown that might occur after eating large quantities of food. Depends on why you want to do this, are you doing shift work or something?
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| # ? Aug 12, 2010 04:40 |
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A Glum Plum posted:Does the feeding window have to be in the afternoon? If my feeding window was the first 4 hours after I woke up, would there be any negative impacts to this diet other than being hungry in the evening? b) Most of the benefits of having your feeding period in the evening are social. This way, you can go out to dinner with people and attend parties and such and not have to refuse food on the grounds that you're IFing.
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| # ? Aug 12, 2010 05:09 |
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Zugzwang posted:a) Why only a 4-hour feeding period? Oops, I saw on the first page one of the fasting options was 20/4 and completely blanked over the 16/8 one. That's way more doable. My hours are weird for the indefinite future, but this is a lot more feasible if I could set my schedule for eating during 8 hours instead of just 4.
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| # ? Aug 13, 2010 05:46 |
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Wow great timing on this thread. It's Ramadan right now and that means I can't eat or drink from sunrise to sunset. I was concerned about not working out for a month as I had started seeing some progress from the exercise routine. I will now start working out for the hour before I open my fast.
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| # ? Aug 15, 2010 19:34 |
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dc0de posted:Wow great timing on this thread. It's Ramadan right now and that means I can't eat or drink from sunrise to sunset. I was concerned about not working out for a month as I had started seeing some progress from the exercise routine. You'd be better off working out after your fast, not before it! The idea is you workout, then get lots of nutrition when your body is more inclined to use calories for muscle repair than fat gain.
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| # ? Aug 16, 2010 08:39 |
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dc0de posted:Wow great timing on this thread. It's Ramadan right now and that means I can't eat or drink from sunrise to sunset. I was concerned about not working out for a month as I had started seeing some progress from the exercise routine. Ramadam Mubarak!  I don't work out daily during Ramadan, but I do tend to time my heavy workouts a few hours before Maghrib. I also found that short periods of steady state cardio during the day helps keep my energy up. There's some benefit for fasting state cardio, but I wouldn't overdo it.The reason I do my workouts before the end of fasting is simply because of where I'm located sunset is around 8:45 and the energy spike I get after workouts would keep me up way too late.
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| # ? Aug 16, 2010 11:52 |
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So if I eat once every 24 hours but eat heaps and drink wine (low on calories), am I doing it right?
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| # ? Aug 16, 2010 12:50 |
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Verty3 posted:So if I eat once every 24 hours but eat heaps and drink wine (low on calories), am I doing it right? I believe the idea is not that you eat all at once, but that during each day you have a four hour window to stuff yourself.
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| # ? Aug 16, 2010 21:36 |
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Namarrgon posted:I believe the idea is not that you eat all at once, but that during each day you have a four hour window to stuff yourself. Yeah, I can't imagine what kind of dedication it would take to eat a full day's worth of calories in one meal that had any type of nutritional value.
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| # ? Aug 16, 2010 22:47 |
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Ok so I tried to do this but in the middle of the night I got an intense pain in my chest just bellow my heart. It hurt so bad but as soon as drank a glass of milk the pain went away. Now this pain was definatly not coming from my stomach and I'm pretty sure it wasn't coming from my Heart either. What the hell happened.
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| # ? Aug 16, 2010 23:26 |
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Namarrgon posted:I believe the idea is not that you eat all at once, but that during each day you have a four hour window to stuff yourself. hehe thats pretty cool, this is pretty much what I have been doing for the last 3 years but everyone thinks its really bad for me. I just go to the gym in the morning, go to work, get home from work about 6 and then start eating (more like feeding) untill dinner which is say, at 7.30 and won't eat again till 6 the next day. Never felt tired, never felt like I couldn't exercise and when I do have lunch my body literally goes into sleep mode in the afternoon. I started doing it years ago when I noticed that when I got home from work I couldn't control how much I ate so I decided to only eat then, I lost heaps of weight 3 years ago and it works fine for working out at the gym, the way I saw it i was eating heaps and using that energy up in the morning at the gym and then over the day. It's cool to see some science to back up my bizarre eating habits.
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| # ? Aug 17, 2010 00:05 |
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BadLlama posted:Ok so I tried to do this but in the middle of the night I got an intense pain in my chest just bellow my heart. It hurt so bad but as soon as drank a glass of milk the pain went away. Now this pain was definatly not coming from my stomach and I'm pretty sure it wasn't coming from my Heart either. What the hell happened. Could be lots of things of course, but you're probably just experiencing the metabolic switch from carb burning to fat burning, it often has that painful feeling for a few minutes. Endure and it'll go away on its own, and eat fewer carbs and it won't happen.
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| # ? Aug 17, 2010 05:46 |
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baquerd posted:Could be lots of things of course, but you're probably just experiencing the metabolic switch from carb burning to fat burning, it often has that painful feeling for a few minutes. Endure and it'll go away on its own, and eat fewer carbs and it won't happen.  sounds like heartburn. In fact, I'm almost certain that's why it's called that.
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| # ? Aug 17, 2010 05:48 |
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baquerd posted:
yeah i'm pretty sure that's not how it works, let's go with heartburn instead of your GI tract achieving operating thetan level 8 or whatever it is you think is happening
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| # ? Aug 17, 2010 05:52 |
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GuardHamster posted:yeah i'm pretty sure that's not how it works, let's go with heartburn instead of your GI tract achieving operating thetan level 8 or whatever it is you think is happening Haha, yeah my supposition as to the "why" is probably off-base, but I can reliably produce a nasty pain in that general area that I wouldn't immediately relate to my stomach simply by eating a bunch of carbs and waiting. Definitely not heartburn, I can eat spicy stuff all day no problem.
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| # ? Aug 17, 2010 06:18 |
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baquerd posted:Haha, yeah my supposition as to the "why" is probably off-base, but I can reliably produce a nasty pain in that general area that I wouldn't immediately relate to my stomach simply by eating a bunch of carbs and waiting. Definitely not heartburn, I can eat spicy stuff all day no problem. Heartburn is not necessarily related to spicy food, it's related to foods that cause your stomach to spit acid up your esophagus. What you're experiencing when you eat carbs, with the burning pain feeling right near your heart? That's heartburn. Kids today...
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| # ? Aug 17, 2010 06:59 |
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And indigestion is when your stomach doesn't have enough acid to get through the food. Eating more than usual over a small timeframe could cause either. And both radiate up from the stomach quite often, sometimes without you feeling anything in your stomach. Ease in to IF if you're having problems says this non-doctor.
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| # ? Aug 17, 2010 07:23 |
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herakles posted:Heartburn is not necessarily related to spicy food, it's related to foods that cause your stomach to spit acid up your esophagus. What you're experiencing when you eat carbs, with the burning pain feeling right near your heart? That's heartburn. No, it's not when I eat carbs it's ~12-24 hours later, kinda like really severe hunger pangs, but I actually don't want to eat from the pain while it's around. I knew it wasn't spicy foods, I just thought they were the most common trigger of heartburn?
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| # ? Aug 17, 2010 07:54 |
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Heh. I tried this today, just loving around, and I had to close the door to my office, my stomach was so loud.
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| # ? Aug 17, 2010 16:57 |
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gvibes posted:Heh. I tried this today, just loving around, and I had to close the door to my office, my stomach was so loud. The only time my stomach growls now is when other people are eating in front of me at the office during lunch. A cup of green tea settles it just fine.
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| # ? Aug 17, 2010 23:39 |
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I've been trying this for a few weeks now, starting with just one day, then two, etc. I'm now up to 5 days per week of 9 hours eating/15 off. So far, so good! I thought I would want to be eating everything in sight towards dinnertime, but sometimes I don't even feel as if I want to eat dinner. This has also really gone a long way towards controlling food cravings. Since I work out at ~7 am, I've been following this schedule on workout days: Up at 6:30, large spoonful of BCAAs with water, half a caffeine tablet. 7-8:30 workout 9:00 another spoonful of BCAAs From then until noon, I just drink water and a couple of cups of black coffee. Noon to 9 pm, eat. My workouts are good. I just need more adjustments to nutrient macros. I still get too many carbs, I think.
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| # ? Aug 17, 2010 23:59 |
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Would drinking a Diet Redbull count as breaking the fast? there are 15 calories but a BUNCH of vitimins
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| # ? Sep 8, 2010 17:27 |
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Diet redbull should be fine, Martin says cream with coffee and gum are alright despite the calories.
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| # ? Sep 8, 2010 20:26 |
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Zugzwang posted:For a more complete look at how alcohol fits into all this goofy fitness poo poo we do, here's a great article on the topic. Reading this stuff makes it seem you can have drinks on a regular basis and still lose weight. Personally, I had plateaued for about a month, and when I finally gave up the booze the scale started shifting down again. And it's not like I'd chug a glass boot every day; I'd have a tumbler of rum or so on a regular basis. I miss drinkin'. 
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| # ? Sep 9, 2010 01:32 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 20:38 |
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This seems to work really well I have been doing 20/4 for the past two days and i already see a difference
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| # ? Sep 9, 2010 18:20 |
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