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eightysixed
Sep 23, 2004

You can walk into a movie theater in Amsterdam and buy a beer. And I don't mean just like in no paper cup, I'm talking about a glass of beer. And in Paris, you can buy a beer at McDonald's. And you know what they call a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in Paris?


Is IRC even that important? Important enough to poo poo this thread up with it?




Honestly, I am looking for a reply to DNova's post though

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Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


eightysixed posted:

Is IRC even that important? Important enough to poo poo this thread up with it?

Well, it is where hackers hang out.

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



I don't mean to poo poo up the thread, I think it's relevant discussion, but I apologize if I am.

IRC is important to me, yes. I use it daily. If I'm paying money for a dedicated server then I expect to be able to do anything that I want with it, as long as it's legal and not causing problems for my host.

micropenis
Jul 19, 2004
An '04 Mac user from the UK. What's worse?

Oh hey guys! Speaking of web hosting (and not IRC), I second http://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/ the pay-as-you-go hosting.

For someone that runs websites for friends/family with bugger-all traffic, this service is perfect. I also had a tech support problem and was kicking myself for going with hosting with no proper "support". Turns out they do have support, you just have to pay for support tickets (10 for $10). Did that, submitted a ticket, got a reply within an hour with a friendly email and fix.

Can't complain.

eightysixed
Sep 23, 2004

You can walk into a movie theater in Amsterdam and buy a beer. And I don't mean just like in no paper cup, I'm talking about a glass of beer. And in Paris, you can buy a beer at McDonald's. And you know what they call a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in Paris?


I'm a fan of HostGator, myself. I've been through a few different goon-run hosts, and each has had it's fair share of problems. I've not experienced this with HG so far

Stacie
Nov 7, 2005


DNova posted:

I'm not really sure what you're talking about... I think we're talking about different things. IRCD = IRC Server = Server to which users connect in order to chat in IRC channels.

Shell accounts offering IRC access for things like bnc and eggdrop bots are completely different. I would never want to run a service like that.

edit: I would believe you if you told me the majority of those "shell accounts" are abused, but I don't think most VPS (at least higher end ones)/Dedi/Colo users are intending to get into shady bullshit with their expensive servers.

I think we were initially talking about a different things; 'shady' users will mostly use VPS to host IRCd servers for sole purpose of connecting and controlling infected computers on the network.

While VPS services do cost more, for a serious 'shady' user it's a non-issue since they are probably doing this professionally.

Most of quality shell hosting companies (as far as I know) actively track and detect such abuse on shared shell servers which forces such users to look elsewhere.

Furthermore; offering IRC access on 'high end' servers attracts another headache called 'fraud'; the same users that need IRC will commit fraud and cost your company tons of overhead and financial burden.

Not to miss another factor that comes into play: when you are offering IRC access you will have to separate network segments for web and IRC, plus have tons of incoming bandwidth along with proper mitigation hardware in place. That costs a lot of money.

While it's true you can just throw both services together; once somebody on IRC segment get's attacked you will be loosing web customers left and right (which is not that great )

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



Stacie posted:

I think we were initially talking about a different things; 'shady' users will mostly use VPS to host IRCd servers for sole purpose of connecting and controlling infected computers on the network.

While VPS services do cost more, for a serious 'shady' user it's a non-issue since they are probably doing this professionally.

Most of quality shell hosting companies (as far as I know) actively track and detect such abuse on shared shell servers which forces such users to look elsewhere.

Furthermore; offering IRC access on 'high end' servers attracts another headache called 'fraud'; the same users that need IRC will commit fraud and cost your company tons of overhead and financial burden.

Not to miss another factor that comes into play: when you are offering IRC access you will have to separate network segments for web and IRC, plus have tons of incoming bandwidth along with proper mitigation hardware in place. That costs a lot of money.

While it's true you can just throw both services together; once somebody on IRC segment get's attacked you will be loosing web customers left and right (which is not that great )

If you want to be condescending and talk to me like I have no experience with this stuff, that's fine, but realize this:

1) Not all IRC users are fraudsters/hackers/malignant in any way.
2) I'm not even talking about running an ircd
3) You can do illegal poo poo by http too (kiddie porn, satellite hacking forums, carding forums, etc etc etc etc) so why don't you shut down http traffic too?

ALL I am saying is that it is ridiculous to block an entire protocol because of a few bad apples. I have a real credit card, in my name, and I want to give you money, but you won't take it because I like to idle in IRC channels about math, electronics, and photography. That's not that great either. It's your company though and if you'd like to continue on with ridiculous beliefs that anyone with an interest in IRC is going to gently caress you over, that's your right.

R1CH
Apr 7, 2002

The Ron Jeremy of the coding world

The simple fact is that IRC has a long history of attracting DDoS and other bad things. Why risk downtime for your entire host or datacenter over one guy on an IRC channel? It has nothing to do with running a server too, I've seen a number of IRC clients get attacked because of dumb stuff: someone didn't like their nickname, was pissed off at the person, wanted to show off, etc.

There are providers out there who do allow IRC with an X strikes rule (eg if you get targeted X times you're gone), just search around. The majority of small hosts simply aren't permitted to run it by their datacenter.

Arcana
Oct 31, 2003

I'll rape your dog with a plow!

I currently run a vBulletin forum about mapping and cartography. I have about 20 thousand members, with 2000 active members. I'm not using too much bandwidth, and I'm using about 20 gigs of space. I'm not limiting forum attachments, and I'm wanting to upgrade to the CMS suite...

Problem is...I'm hosted currently with GoDaddy. I've done nothing but sing their praises for years, and then out of the blue they popped up and told me I'm not allowed to have more than 1024 files in a single folder anywhere. So some of my users have of course made more than 1024 attachments and their attachment folder is filled with that many or more files.

I've asked for support from vBulletin, and everyone there has told me that's a silly requirement and I should seek another host.

Any suggestions? I need a good host thats in the same pricerange as 6.99 a month that allows me SSH, multiple domains, good space and bandwidth allowances, and no unreasonable restrictions on my file structure.

I currently use about 20 gigs of space, and about 6-8 Gb bandwidth a month if that.

Where is SA hosted? I seem to remember this huge story/thread about how this site stayed up through most of Hurricane Katrina, and its hosted there in New Orleans...

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



R1CH posted:

The simple fact is that IRC has a long history of attracting DDoS and other bad things. Why risk downtime for your entire host or datacenter over one guy on an IRC channel? It has nothing to do with running a server too, I've seen a number of IRC clients get attacked because of dumb stuff: someone didn't like their nickname, was pissed off at the person, wanted to show off, etc.

There are providers out there who do allow IRC with an X strikes rule (eg if you get targeted X times you're gone), just search around. The majority of small hosts simply aren't permitted to run it by their datacenter.

Actually I have zero problems finding IRC friendly hosts. There are tons of them; I would call them the majority. That's another reason I don't really understand no-IRC policy of some. I guess they had a really bad experience and are reacting to the extreme.

I have no problems with a host booting you right off their network if you are causing any kind of problems. In your scenario, "X strikes rule," I would set X = 1.


Arcana: A lot of shared hosts will fit the bill for you. I am using Site5 and I have had no problems with them. They're one of those "unlimited everything!!" shared hosts but for your specs I think it will be ok. Check the shared hosting links in the OP too. Some are goon-run and have goon specials. Shop around there is no shortage of shared hosting companies.

DNova fucked around with this message at Apr 29, 2010 around 17:50

optikalus
Apr 17, 2008


Arcana posted:

Where is SA hosted? I seem to remember this huge story/thread about how this site stayed up through most of Hurricane Katrina, and its hosted there in New Orleans...

They're currently with Steadfast Networks out of Chicago. They used to be with Zipa in New Orleans (they appear to have moved in 2006).

Arcana
Oct 31, 2003

I'll rape your dog with a plow!

I'm currently torn between Hostgator and Steadfast...Hostgator says they have a 250,000 i-node limit per shared account...which apparently counts for files and emails? vBulletin alone is like 7,000 files...so I'm not sure whether thats a reasonable limit or not. Steadfast is looking pretty good, hell its good enough for SA right?

optikalus
Apr 17, 2008


Arcana posted:

I'm currently torn between Hostgator and Steadfast...Hostgator says they have a 250,000 i-node limit per shared account...which apparently counts for files and emails? vBulletin alone is like 7,000 files...so I'm not sure whether thats a reasonable limit or not. Steadfast is looking pretty good, hell its good enough for SA right?

SA has their own servers and just uses Steadfast's colocation.

Arcana
Oct 31, 2003

I'll rape your dog with a plow!

I know...does anyone have any experience with their shared hosting? That i-node limitation at hostgator kinda scares me...

Edit: I've read bad things about cPanel as well which hostgator uses...and steadfast uses Lightspeed and H-Sphere...how well does that work?

Arcana fucked around with this message at Apr 29, 2010 around 18:47

flyboi
Oct 13, 2005

agg stop posting


cPanel is a fantastic control panel. It is only limited by the person administrating it. I know plenty of people on hostgator that have no issues. For instance givesmehop.com is hosted on hostgator.

Steadfast is also a decent host. They have a fairly stable network but as far as their shared hosting I have no experience with. I haven't worked in shared hosting in 6ish years.

a llama
Mar 10, 2010

by T. Finn


Gelob posted:

I work at http://www.limestonenetworks.com we are an un-managed dedicated server provider in Dallas. On the subject we do allow IRC as long as your not linking to efnet, linknet, etc. We run a GameSurge.net server as well (Limestone.TX.US.GameSurge.net).

Rumor has it you should start looking for another job. Just a heads up.

Also, cPanel is an amazing control panel with support that is nearly unmatched in the industry. The last time I sent a support ticket to cPanel (and not my web host, the actual people who develop the software) it was responded to in 3 minutes.

Sebbe
Feb 29, 2004



Arcana posted:

I'm currently torn between Hostgator and Steadfast...Hostgator says they have a 250,000 i-node limit per shared account...which apparently counts for files and emails? vBulletin alone is like 7,000 files...so I'm not sure whether thats a reasonable limit or not. Steadfast is looking pretty good, hell its good enough for SA right?

The inode limit is very reasonable. There's one inode per file/directory, so you'll have a hard time filling it up as long as you're reasonable.

The only case where I could see it being a problem would be with a public imagehost, but that isn't allowed on HostGator.

If you have 200k+ files lying around on your website, you should consider if it wouldn't be wiser to keep some of it in a database anyway.

Gelob
Jun 9, 2006



a llama posted:

Rumor has it you should start looking for another job. Just a heads up.

Rumors are always true...

Captain Pike
Jul 29, 2003



Gelob posted:

Rumors are always true...

Why are they firing Gelob?

eightysixed
Sep 23, 2004

You can walk into a movie theater in Amsterdam and buy a beer. And I don't mean just like in no paper cup, I'm talking about a glass of beer. And in Paris, you can buy a beer at McDonald's. And you know what they call a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in Paris?


Captain Pike posted:

Why are they firing Gelob?

More like the company probably going under.

flyboi
Oct 13, 2005

agg stop posting


Judging from what I've seen leaked out I'd have to side with a llama

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/04/prweb3895124.htm

Same company, right?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


DNova posted:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/04/prweb3895124.htm

Same company, right?

That's written by the marketing department, it's not a news article.

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



Bob Morales posted:

That's written by the marketing department, it's not a news article.

I know but I guess it seems weird to me that a small private company would feel the need to issue a grandiose press release if they're actually failing. They could just keep quiet and potential/current customers wouldn't know the difference, right?

Not that I have ANY knowledge of their situation either way, of course.

Stacie
Nov 7, 2005


Arcana posted:

I know...does anyone have any experience with their shared hosting? That i-node limitation at hostgator kinda scares me...

Edit: I've read bad things about cPanel as well which hostgator uses...and steadfast uses Lightspeed and H-Sphere...how well does that work?

Steadfast is solid. Owner is a very nice guy who knows his stuff.

a llama
Mar 10, 2010

by T. Finn


Gelob posted:

Rumors are always true...

You are right; but your investors shopping around a client list due to a repeated quarterly loss isn't a rumor

Just trying to let you know to watch out

Arcana
Oct 31, 2003

I'll rape your dog with a plow!

Well, I miscalculated my stats...I'm using about 5-7 Gb of bandwidth per day, not per month...that's pretty significant eh?

optikalus
Apr 17, 2008


Arcana posted:

Well, I miscalculated my stats...I'm using about 5-7 Gb of bandwidth per day, not per month...that's pretty significant eh?

That seems more in line with the usage stats you quoted before. You probably want to check out how much load on the SQL server you place, as that would be the first thing a new host will notice. Some hosts have limits on SQL utilization; some don't.

I host several high-volume message boards (almost all car related), and just have to make sure that they're not all on the same servers, as they wreak havoc on the databases (VBB doesn't give a poo poo about your SQL server heh)

I also have my own fairly high traffic forum, but I wrote it from scratch and paid much attention to eliminating live database queries. It'll all depend on what software you run and how it is configured, and a lesser extent what mods you have installed.

nbv4
Aug 21, 2002

by Duchess Gummybuns


I remember hearing about this one hosting company that offers VPS's to users which are really cheap, but are completely unsupported. I think I remember hearing about how they get their hardware from some other larger hosting company as handy downs when the larger company upgrades. I can't remember the name of this company, can anoyone help me out?

Also, theres another company (which I can't remember the name of either) thats similar in that their VPS's are completely unmanaged. The website is plain text and their prices are half of what linode/slicehost costs, and you get the same specs.

Basically I'm wanting to move from my Linode account to something thats roughly the same size, yet a little cheaper. I've been administrating sites deployed on VPS's for years now and have never had the need to file a single ticket. Why pay extra for stuff you'll never use?

Aleksei Vasiliev
May 7, 2007

Fuck the cowboys. Unf. Fuck em hard.

nbv4 posted:

Basically I'm wanting to move from my Linode account to something thats roughly the same size, yet a little cheaper. I've been administrating sites deployed on VPS's for years now and have never had the need to file a single ticket. Why pay extra for stuff you'll never use?
post your specs and what you pay

Stacie
Nov 7, 2005


nbv4 posted:

I remember hearing about this one hosting company that offers VPS's to users which are really cheap, but are completely unsupported. I think I remember hearing about how they get their hardware from some other larger hosting company as handy downs when the larger company upgrades. I can't remember the name of this company, can anoyone help me out?

Also, theres another company (which I can't remember the name of either) thats similar in that their VPS's are completely unmanaged. The website is plain text and their prices are half of what linode/slicehost costs, and you get the same specs.

Basically I'm wanting to move from my Linode account to something thats roughly the same size, yet a little cheaper. I've been administrating sites deployed on VPS's for years now and have never had the need to file a single ticket. Why pay extra for stuff you'll never use?

http://www.prgmr.com keep in mind you get what you pay for as performance wise they do not stack up to Linode/etc.

nbv4
Aug 21, 2002

by Duchess Gummybuns


Aleksei Vasiliev posted:

post your specs and what you pay

currently I pay $20 for a linode 360, which is great but I could use a little more RAM.

quote:

http://www.prgmr.com keep in mind you get what you pay for as performance wise they do not stack up to Linode/etc.

Awesome, thats the one. Sucks that they don't offer 32bit Ubuntu though

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



They're not accepting new customers at the moment anyways.

Stacie
Nov 7, 2005


Hey guys, we added a new coupon code 'goons' which will give you 50% off on any product we offer (except service extras) when selecting a monthly billing cycle.

Pretty much allows you to purchase a shell hosting or a web hosting package for under a buck.

Enjoy and let me know if you run into any problems.

http://www.amdwebhost.com

therobotking
May 23, 2006



A hosting company I used while they were giving away free shared hosting accounts on Twitter (host1plus.com) have started a free hosting plan here: http://host1free.com

It's pretty decent with no ads - maybe add it to the OP. I'm not convinced their uptime is really 99.9% as I've experienced a bit of down time now and then but it's easily the best free host I've used so far.

shablamoid
Feb 28, 2006
Shuh-blam-oid

VINEGAR BITTERS posted:

I'm not convinced their uptime is really 99.9% as I've experienced a bit of down time now and then but it's easily the best free host I've used so far.

You also have to take into account that 99.9% uptime is about a day and a half of downtime a year.

optikalus
Apr 17, 2008


shablamoid posted:

You also have to take into account that 99.9% uptime is about a day and a half of downtime a year.

Actually 8 3/4 hours if my math is correct. Still a ridiculous amount of downtime.

eightysixed
Sep 23, 2004

You can walk into a movie theater in Amsterdam and buy a beer. And I don't mean just like in no paper cup, I'm talking about a glass of beer. And in Paris, you can buy a beer at McDonald's. And you know what they call a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in Paris?


optikalus posted:

Actually 8 3/4 hours if my math is correct. Still a ridiculous amount of downtime.

Your math is correct.

therobotking
May 23, 2006



optikalus posted:

Actually 8 3/4 hours if my math is correct. Still a ridiculous amount of downtime.

Ha, wow. I never really thought about how much time 0.1% of a year was. The hosts who advertise 99.99999% uptime make a lot more sense now. I used to think they were just being dramatic.

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eightysixed
Sep 23, 2004

You can walk into a movie theater in Amsterdam and buy a beer. And I don't mean just like in no paper cup, I'm talking about a glass of beer. And in Paris, you can buy a beer at McDonald's. And you know what they call a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in Paris?


VINEGAR BITTERS posted:

Ha, wow. I never really thought about how much time 0.1% of a year was. The hosts who advertise 99.99999% uptime make a lot more sense now. I used to think they were just being dramatic.

Yea, but when you break it down to the correct unit (hours, in this case), 8760 can have a huge difference.

But all things being equal, Im a partner in a Management Consulting firm, and 8 hours of downtime per year is completely acceptable.

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