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Male Man posted:Shifter fixes this too!
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Apr 13, 2010 16:07
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Jetsetlemming posted:I would play Deus Ex through the first time without the kill XP bonuses. The other ones like stealth and hygiene (Shifter rewards you with a small bonus for flushing a dirty toilet Shifter adds some fun stuff but I would never suggest it for a first playthrough. And removing kill xp bonuses and leaving the other stuff intact seems even wierder. Is stealthing the 'correct' way to play? No, the game is about playing the way you want and handing out any form of bonus for stealth or killing stuff messes that up. The only way to keep this neutral is to provide the same skill points for everyone like the original does. Shifter also makes the game alot easier, seeing as you can use aug cannister to upgrade your augs. Which lets you max every aug pretty fast instead of having to choose what you want to focus on.
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Apr 13, 2010 16:12
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), but the kill ones might encourage a single playstyle, and if you're ok with killing dudes it definitely encourages hunting down every enemy.
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Lordpen posted:Shifter adds some fun stuff but I would never suggest it for a first playthrough. There never were kill xp bonuses, though. Shifter added both the takedown and stealth bonuses. Either 'skillful' combat or stealth is the 'correct' way to play Shifter; if you blunder into firefights like a dummy and just tank your way through everything you don't really get any reward. I don't think he's managed to implement rewards for well-arranged traps, either.
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Apr 13, 2010 16:27
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ArcMage posted:There never were kill xp bonuses, though. Shifter added both the takedown and stealth bonuses. What he means is that you should either get points for both (don't disable anything) or not get points at all (don't use shifter). That way, one approach isn't necessarily better.
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Apr 13, 2010 16:37
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very happy hog posted:You don't remember weapon mods? Scope, laser sight, silencer, etc, etc? In my defense, I was only about 15 or so when I played Deus Ex for the first time. I was used to Quake 3 and other FPS games back then, and at that age that's about all I had the patience for, so that's kind of how I treated Deus Ex. I didn't have time for no drat skill systems or patiently upgrading augs as they came along. Not long after the first couple of levels, I got bored and cheated my way to the end with God mode and the highest skills in everything (which basically amounted to me running through at top aug speed with infinite health and the Dragon Tooth Sword) just to see what happened with the plot. I had never played a stealth game before and because you weren't forced to use stealth, I didn't really think about it as an option, and just played the game like it was a linear FPS. I'm older and wiser now though, and having seen the err of my ways, plan to play the game through the way it was meant to be played. It was long enough ago that I don't exactly remember what happens in the middle, so I'm looking forward to revisiting it. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Apr 13, 2010 |
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Apr 13, 2010 16:38
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ArcMage posted:There never were kill xp bonuses, though. Shifter added both the takedown and stealth bonuses. Yeah I know, I don't like either of these bonuses and removing just one of them is even worse in my opinion. And that is exactly my problem with shifter, it promotes specific styles of play. Where as the original doesnt give a crap about how you play, you get the same skillpoints no matter how you play. This is key to the whole "play it you way" principle which really is the best thing about Deus Ex.
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Apr 13, 2010 16:39
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Lordpen posted:Yeah I know, I don't like either of these bonuses and removing just one of them is even worse in my opinion. My mistake, for some reason I thought the original game gave bonus's for killing, but not for stealthing through the game, which shifter added.
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Apr 13, 2010 16:48
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Lordpen posted:And removing kill xp bonuses and leaving the other stuff intact seems even wierder. Is stealthing the 'correct' way to play? No, the game is about playing the way you want and handing out any form of bonus for stealth or killing stuff messes that up. The only way to keep this neutral is to provide the same skill points for everyone like the original does.
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Apr 13, 2010 16:56
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Xander77 posted:So? The original offered bonus points for exploration - was that the "right" way to play? Seems to me like the only way to be truly encouraging of literally every style of play would be to reward every player exactly equally by giving a static amount of points to the player every time he completes an area that every player, regardless of playstyle, must complete in order to advance. By the time the game is beaten, every player should have been given an equal number of points. In any "play your own way" game, points should be given for advancement, not how that advancement is accomplished.
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Apr 13, 2010 17:04
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Or you could simply make every plausible manner of completing an area have its own rewards / problems and more importantly, make every manner equally entertaining. In that case, the average player can play in the manner that he enjoys the most (its own reward) and people who wish to play through the game against can change the way in which they accomplish their objectives / go for the most "statistically optimal" way of doing so.
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Apr 13, 2010 17:11
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Xander77 posted:So? The original offered bonus points for exploration - was that the "right" way to play? Good point, but I'd argue that those rewards are inherently different from shifter bonuses. Because the exploration bonuses aren't effected by how you find them. You could liken them to the side quests in the game, which give the same skill point reward no matter how the player finishes them. Shifter for example gives you stealth bonuses depending on how close you sneak by enemies, this in a sense punishes the player that finds a clever way to sneak by enemies further away and in a more safe manner. I mean is it worse play to find a vent that lets you circumvent several enemies safely? Why should he get a greater reward for finishing the mission by sneaking up close to every enemy? But in the end, if you enjoy the game more with shifter then of course use it. I just wouldnt suggest it for a first playthrough.
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Apr 13, 2010 17:15
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Xander77 posted:Or you could simply make every plausible manner of completing an area have its own rewards / problems and more importantly, make every manner equally entertaining. In that case, the average player can play in the manner that he enjoys the most (its own reward) and people who wish to play through the game against can change the way in which they accomplish their objectives / go for the most "statistically optimal" way of doing so. That would be a lot more complicated though, requiring a ton of additional programming and balancing. The only thing a system like that would really be useful for is if every time you got XP, you wanted it to flash up on the screen to tell you how good you're doing. If the goal is to reward every player equally, you really just need to find the thing every player will do no matter what and reward them for that. In this case, it's game advancement. If the plan is for every player to get rewarded as equally as possible anyway, why go through all the trouble of setting up all those independant triggers and checks and systems, which are all prone to error, when a simple area check would do that same job better for about 1/100th of the effort? Also, every manner of completing the game is already entertaining. We don't need points for that. It's its own reward. When I sneak past a guard, I don't need to see increasing numbers to reward me. Successfully sneaking past another human is its own reward, just like blowing the guard's head off would be its own reward as well. VVV I'm not sure I understand what you mean. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Apr 13, 2010 |
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Apr 13, 2010 17:19
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I was specifically talking about rewards that don't depend on points.
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Apr 13, 2010 17:21
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...of SCIENCE! posted:I'm sorry, Fallout's gameplay is really clunky in this day and age, same with System Shock's shooting. They're considered classics because of things like writing, sound design, and the ability to tackle situations with a variety of different skills and character builds, but anybody who's mind isn't completely clouded by nostalgia would recognize the flaws in their gameplay and how it has been improved since. Trying to act smug about gameplay when Fallout's combat consisted 90% of the time standing around and targeting people's eyes and groin over and over is ridiculously counter-intuitive. I played both Fallout and Deus Ex for the first time in 2007, and they were amazing. I really don't know what to say to anyone who can't stand to play a game that's more than a couple of years old.
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Apr 13, 2010 18:29
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Canadian Surf Club posted:So just purchased this and downloaded the Steam version, and it seems to be running really fast. Don't disable throttling. Throttling in this case means causing your processor to run more slowly than it would normally. Turn throttling back on and see if that helps. lesserworm posted:I think Getwellgamers did a screenshot lp of Deus Ex as well. I remember liking that one a lot more. He abused the AI a lot which was entertaining. I can't find it anywhere though. If you have archives (I don't or else I would try and provide a link), you might be able to find it. I don't think that LP was ever finished, and a lot of the images are sadly lost to time.
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Apr 13, 2010 18:35
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GreatGreen posted:VVV I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
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Apr 13, 2010 18:42
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You can have a small chat with JoJo if he kills both Rentons. (Crappy sound I know.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsdQjD0Qyaw
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Apr 13, 2010 19:09
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I was playing through this obsessively on my old PC. I then spilled coffee on my keyboard and had my power strip die within a week of each other. I took it as a sign from gawd and stopped playing. It's not available for mac. 
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Apr 13, 2010 19:09
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Weedle posted:I really don't know what to say to anyone who can't stand to play a game that's more than a couple of years old. Except that's not what I said and is just a lovely strawman to avoid the point of my message? I never said "Hurr durr these graphics suck and this game's too complicated, games more than a couple years old are too much for my feeble contarded brain", I said that many old games that are put up on a pedestal have legitimate, deep-seated flaws that always get glossed-over by breathless hyperbole and clouded by nostalgia in threads like this, and that when said flaws get pointed out the knee-jerk reaction is posts like yours that dismiss all criticism as stupid people unable to see the brilliance of the game in question. Of course, this is the Deus Ex thread and not the "Why aren't today's games as good as the games I played as a kid?" thread that pops up every month so this derail has gone on enough.
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Apr 13, 2010 19:29
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Except that's not what I said and is just a lovely strawman to avoid the point of my message? I never said "Hurr durr these graphics suck and this game's too complicated, games more than a couple years old are too much for my feeble contarded brain", I said that many old games that are put up on a pedestal have legitimate, deep-seated flaws that always get glossed-over by breathless hyperbole and clouded by nostalgia in threads like this, and that when said flaws get pointed out the knee-jerk reaction is posts like yours that dismiss all criticism as stupid people unable to see the brilliance of the game in question. The part of my post that you didn't quote said "I played both Fallout and Deus Ex for the first time in 2007, and they were amazing," which was a response to your contention that people who love these games have minds "completely clouded by nostalgia." Someone used to newer games can still enjoy old ones.
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Apr 13, 2010 20:28
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Weedle posted:The part of my post that you didn't quote said "I played both Fallout and Deus Ex for the first time in 2007, and they were amazing," which was a response to your contention that people who love these games have minds "completely clouded by nostalgia." Someone used to newer games can still enjoy old ones.
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Apr 13, 2010 20:43
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I can't go back to the Fallout games anymore. They hurt my eyes. Dunno what it is, I can still play other old brown 2d games like Diablo and Starcraft, but Fallout's just meh. I was never a real big fan of the gameplay, either, and once you've explored the game once there's not much in it, for me at least, to explore it again. I've replayed Deus Ex over a dozen times, though.
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Apr 13, 2010 20:45
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Shumagorath posted:I would definitely still love DX if I played it for the first time recently, but Fallout 2 was a little much. Maybe I'll try it again sometime as trying to take on the Rat King right away might have been that game's Liberty Island. The Rat King's den sucked, but easily the worst part of either Fallout game is the Temple of Trials at the very beginning of FO2. Why they chose to open the game with a segment that showcases the absolute worst things about it is beyond me.
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Apr 13, 2010 20:45
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How do weapon mods work in Deus Ex? If I mod a sniper rifle out the rear end and lose it, but pick up another sniper rifle, does it still have the mods? And how does this work with that whole 'regain your weapons from the armory' debacle? Is there a unique sniper rifle I should be on the lookout for that comes with the Shifter mod?
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Apr 13, 2010 20:51
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Le Sean posted:How do weapon mods work in Deus Ex? If I mod a sniper rifle out the rear end and lose it, but pick up another sniper rifle, does it still have the mods? And how does this work with that whole 'regain your weapons from the armory' debacle? Is there a unique sniper rifle I should be on the lookout for that comes with the Shifter mod? When you mod a weapon, that mod is on that particular weapon only. If you ditch that weapon and find another one later, it will be unmodded. As for the part where you have to get all of your poo poo back from the armory, the game basically just takes everything you had in your inventory and stacks it on shelves. When you pick up your old rifle it will still have the modifications on it.
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Apr 13, 2010 20:54
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Weapon mods are unique to a single weapon. The armor thing keeps your real inventory weapons, however it does lose your ammo and grenades (unless you have shifter in which case your grenade count is properly remembered. Ammo's still gone though). There are two unique sniper rifles in Shifter, but I can only recall where one is: Paris in a locked apartment building
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Apr 13, 2010 20:55
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Le Sean posted:How do weapon mods work in Deus Ex? If I mod a sniper rifle out the rear end and lose it, but pick up another sniper rifle, does it still have the mods? And how does this work with that whole 'regain your weapons from the armory' debacle? Is there a unique sniper rifle I should be on the lookout for that comes with the Shifter mod? Weapon mods are tied to the weapon, so don't lose your modded ones. Weapons taken back from the armory will retain their mods. If you're really worried about it, there's a glitch with that level you can take advantage of: the game actually copies your inventory to the armory and then removes the stuff you're carrying, so if you pause before your inventory gets cleared, you can clear it out and then pick it all back up once the inventory clearing is done. It ruins the experience of running through the base nearly unarmed, though, so I wouldn't recommend it. Shifter adds a unique sniper rifle that has a faster rate of fire. It's called the Precision Rifle, and you can find it in Paris, in a locked room on the rooftop you land on, IIRC.
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Apr 13, 2010 20:57
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Jetsetlemming posted:Weapon mods are unique to a single weapon. The armor thing keeps your real inventory weapons, however it does lose your ammo and grenades (unless you have shifter in which case your grenade count is properly remembered. Ammo's still gone though). There are two unique sniper rifles in Shifter, but I can only recall where one is: Paris in a locked apartment building Are you sure? It's been a while since I last played, but I seem to recall that the game keeps track of your ammo independently of your inventory, so even if you throw away all of your guns you still have ammo.
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Apr 13, 2010 21:00
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Except that's not what I said and is just a lovely strawman to avoid the point of my message? I never said "Hurr durr these graphics suck and this game's too complicated, games more than a couple years old are too much for my feeble contarded brain", I said that many old games that are put up on a pedestal have legitimate, deep-seated flaws that always get glossed-over by breathless hyperbole and clouded by nostalgia in threads like this, and that when said flaws get pointed out the knee-jerk reaction is posts like yours that dismiss all criticism as stupid people unable to see the brilliance of the game in question. As somebody who bought this game for the first time this year; then immediately played through it again (and is currently going through it a third time), I can say without any nostalgia that this is the best game I have ever played. Ever. It has some serious flaws, no doubt about that, but the sum of all its parts is still superior to any other game I've ever played. This is not specifically aimed at you, but rather at all the people saying that nostalgia is literally the only reason anybody would still enjoy this game in the age of HIGH-DEFINITION GRAPHIXXX.
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Apr 13, 2010 21:03
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Weedle posted:Are you sure? It's been a while since I last played, but I seem to recall that the game keeps track of your ammo independently of your inventory, so even if you throw away all of your guns you still have ammo. Edit: Huh, what do you know, they leave all your bullets on you when they lock you up. Jetsetlemming fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Apr 13, 2010 |
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Apr 13, 2010 21:06
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Another thing to note is that if you take an unmodded weapon from that particular level and then pick up your modded one you will just get ammo for the unmodded weapon. Make sure you drop everything upon entering the armoury.
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Apr 13, 2010 21:09
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Bk. posted:As somebody who bought this game for the first time this year; then immediately played through it again (and is currently going through it a third time)
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Apr 13, 2010 21:18
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Shumagorath posted:Another thing to note is that if you take an unmodded weapon from that particular level and then pick up your modded one you will just get ammo for the unmodded weapon. Make sure you drop everything upon entering the armoury.  around this bit of information. Do not pick up a gun that wasn't yours! If you do, remember to drop it before you pick up YOUR gun from the armory, or it will just pick yours up as ammo for the unmodded one you had found.Bk. posted:This is not specifically aimed at you, but rather at all the people saying that nostalgia is literally the only reason anybody would still enjoy this game in the age of HIGH-DEFINITION GRAPHIXXX. Now, say, my love of Descent is a different matter. THAT game is outdated in graphics, gameplay, technology and standards, and I love it so much because of intense nostalgia (and a sad lack of anything else in the 3D zero-G realm). Deus Ex legitimately has insanely good features that you rarely see anywhere else, like such open-ended gameplay and user-customization, real consequences for your actions and such. You play the game through in a different way and it's practically a different game.
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Apr 13, 2010 21:51
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The DX hud doesn't really look right in any resolution above 640x480 and I kinda figure that it ought to be good enough to just do a crisp encoding of that and watch in 480p for youtube.
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Apr 13, 2010 22:43
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Shumagorath posted:Another thing to note is that if you take an unmodded weapon from that particular level and then pick up your modded one you will just get ammo for the unmodded weapon. Make sure you drop everything upon entering the armoury. Also, there are 2 places where people will try to take your precious pistol, Gunther and Mr. Renton. For Gunther, you can just drop all your guns and give him a knife, and for Mr. Renton, drop your pistol somewhere safe in the hotel before you loot the baddies because they have pistols, so you can take one of their unmodded ones to give to Renton and go pick yours back up. Carbohydrates fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Apr 13, 2010 |
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Apr 13, 2010 23:00
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Real pros mod the stealth pistol anyway, forget the regular 10mm.
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Apr 13, 2010 23:25
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fleshweasel posted:The DX hud doesn't really look right in any resolution above 640x480 and I kinda figure that it ought to be good enough to just do a crisp encoding of that and watch in 480p for youtube. This mod fixes the crappy UI scaling somewhat by making it shrink instead of blowing it up. Its still easily readable if you don't have lovely eyes, and it looks way better.
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Apr 13, 2010 23:31
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Tanith posted:Real pros mod the stealth pistol anyway, forget the regular 10mm. This. Also gently caress the GEP Gun, it's all about the Wrist Crossbow. That thing is badass. I do still love the fact that the first gun you can get in this game is a loving rocket launcher, though. Does anyone still play DX online? I remember actually having quite a bit of fun with this game in deathmatch... mainly of the stealth-around-and-lightsaber-people-in-the-back-of-the-head variety.
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Apr 13, 2010 23:36
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Shumagorath posted:So during those scripts I hand over my equipped weapon instead of the first 10mm pistol it finds? That's cool; I always had a spare sawed-off shotgun for Gilbert anyway. I just run to the Underworld Tavern and grab Jordan Shea's sawed-off from behind the bar. With a sawed-off Gilbert always seems to win pretty quickly. I didn't see this posted yet. Some of the stuff in the TNM chatlog came from this DX design document. http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/april02/dxbible/
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Apr 13, 2010 23:38
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Tanith posted:Real pros mod the stealth pistol anyway, forget the regular 10mm. 10mm does more damage  Not that it matters. Usually I play this game by running up to people and popping them in the head point blank. They usually don't start shooting until you're breathing on them
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Apr 14, 2010 00:06
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