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Gyshall posted:All I know is that they better be making a second dishonored cause that game owns. Good news: they are, and they've explicitly acknowledged that non-lethal in Dishonored was a bit poo poo because it was added at the last minute, so they're making sure it's as well-developed as the lethal options.
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Jun 20, 2014 08:51
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Good news: they are, and they've explicitly acknowledged that non-lethal in Dishonored was a bit poo poo because it was added at the last minute, so they're making sure it's as well-developed as the lethal options. Aw that kinda sucks, I actually liked that in a game based on assassinating people, going non-lethal was limiting yourself. And most of the non-lethal fates were worse than murdering the victim which was a cool and interesting thing.
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Jun 20, 2014 09:44
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MrJacobs posted:Aw that kinda sucks, I actually liked that in a game based on assassinating people, going non-lethal was limiting yourself. And most of the non-lethal fates were worse than murdering the victim which was a cool and interesting thing. Non-lethal wasn't limiting yourself in an interesting way, it was not getting to use 80% of the game's tools. Making it so that non-lethal is a choice from the beginning should mean a 50/50 split between lethal/nonlethal toys, which means you can now actually use cool powers and gadgets while going nonlethal. It's almost guaranteed to be close to how the Knife of Dunwall does it (KoD added gas grenades upgradeable to amnesia grenades, as well as stun mines), which is a bit of a shame because I'd rather they give us more toys focused on ghosting than on nonlethal KOs/nonlethal means of escape once you've hosed up.
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Jun 20, 2014 09:50
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Even Deus Ex had problems balancing lethal and non-lethal play (see: the way that halfway through the game it basically stops recognizing whether or not you were non-lethal, the ability to play through the game without killing anybody is more about glitches and technicalities than any actual narrative focus, the lack of non-lethal equipment beyond starting equipment like the crossbow and the prod) so I'm really interested in what they do. It just makes me sad that, even when they added a splash screen telling people that high and low chaos aren't "good" or "evil" and encouraging people to play the way they wanted, so many people who played Dishonored played a boring non-lethal stealthy way that excluded them from the majority of the game's features and content and then complained that it was too boring.
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Jun 20, 2014 10:30
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:If I had to guess, I would think it had something to do with the commentary (or lack thereof) for the Russian language.
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Jun 20, 2014 10:41
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...of SCIENCE! posted:even when they added a splash screen telling people that high and low chaos aren't "good" or "evil" This doesn't really matter since it's wrong, incidentally. Low chaos and high chaos absolutely are the dumb, cliché good vs. evil video game morality, the epilogue makes that very clear (even though nearly every single nonlethal way of disposing of your mission targets is way more evil than just stabbing them  ). I really hope the dumb chaos system isn't in Dishonored 2.Dishonored is at its best when you do two things: never quickload to correct a fuckup, and don't try to play it nonlethally. That's a problem that needs to be addressed in the sequel, since the game was advertised as being just as good nonlethal/ghost as it was lethal. Fortunately, it's a problem they're addressing, so everyone gets to be happy.
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Jun 20, 2014 11:43
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I got Dishono(u)red on a good sale but haven't gotten around to playing it yet. I was aware of the criticisms levelled in this thread, but I also heard that the levels tended to be fairly short and linear and the overall game was short. Would you say that that is valid? It may be impossible to have another game as sprawling as Thief 2 in the era of Everything Has to Have HD Graphics Everywhere, but it's still what I would like to see.
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Jun 20, 2014 17:57
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Hannibal Rex posted:Depends on what you mean by "genre", but as far as first-person stealth/combat multiple pathways RPG action hybrids go, Dishonored really carried the Looking Glass torch. Which is not surprising, since Arkane is full of ex-LGS peeps and their first game was Totally Not Ultima Underworld 3. JustJeff88 posted:I got Dishono(u)red on a good sale but haven't gotten around to playing it yet. I was aware of the criticisms levelled in this thread, but I also heard that the levels tended to be fairly short and linear and the overall game was short. Would you say that that is valid? It may be impossible to have another game as sprawling as Thief 2 in the era of Everything Has to Have HD Graphics Everywhere, but it's still what I would like to see. The levels aren't as big and sprawling as Thief 1/2, for the most part, but they didn't feel either short or linear. Steam says I spent 50 hours on it, and that's for one playthrough each of Dishonoured proper, the Knife of Dunwall, and the Brigmore Witches -- so call it ~2.5h/mission on average. Of course, I was also trying to explore everything and ghost each mission (although not necessarily nonlethally), which slows things down some. Speaking as a huge Thief and Deus Ex fan who was bitterly disappointed in Deadly Shadows and mildly disappointed in Human Revolution, I enjoyed the poo poo out of Dishonoured, would wholeheartedly recommend it, and am excited for Dishonoured 2.
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Jun 20, 2014 18:17
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Neo Rasa posted:I think both of these problems happened because of a lack of real vertical space compared to the first Deus Ex. The sniper rifles especially, I think the only time I never used one is the tranquilizer type if you take the roof approach to the very first mission. There's a lot of "vertical" space throughout Hengsha but the streets are too cramped for it to really matter, the rooftops and the ground level may as well be too different universes. Detroit is fairly uninteresting too explore too personally. I love the game overall but you can really see where they were running out of time and money. If they do another I hope an area as in depth as Wan Chai/Tonnotchi Road/the canals in DX1. Talking of DXHR's lack of verticality (word?) - The three things in the original DX that continue to stand out to me 14 years later were exploring the derelict towers in (I think) Hell's Kitchen that overlooked the NSF satellite array early on, peering out of the windows in the versalife tower in Hong Kong and seeing a guard wandering around outside fifty odd feet below me, and looking up at Maggie Chow's apartment from the streets of Hong Kong. I think there is something about knowing that an area that SHOULD be inaccessible to you has been fully rendered anyway in the engine. It both makes the world feel more alive and teases you with the potential to reach such an inaccessible place. I havent played a game since that has done this for me.
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Jun 20, 2014 19:07
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What is the best way to play Thief 2 these days? The Dark Mod?
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Jun 20, 2014 20:32
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Gyshall posted:What is the best way to play Thief 2 these days? The Dark Mod? Have you played the metal age before? Because other than the graphics it still holds up pretty well gameplay-wise
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Jun 20, 2014 21:07
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closeted republican posted:I found that the game gave you way too little ammo to consider a lethal playthrough with anything except the 10mm Pistol, and that's only because 10mm headshots were powerful enough to compensate for the lack of ammo. In DX1, you had enough ammo for the important weapons to carry you throughout the entire game. The only important weapon who's ammo gets rarer as the game goes on, the 10mm pistol, didn't have it's ammo get as low as your average weapon in HR.
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Jun 21, 2014 00:34
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Gyshall posted:What is the best way to play Thief 2 these days? The Dark Mod? GOG or Steam version + TafferPatcher. Nomenclature posted:If people need artificial incentive to choose stealth routes, then that's a good indication that the stealth options could use more improvement. In addition to the ammo issues, nonlethal takedowns are faster and quieter than lethal ones and give you a fuckload more XP. DX:HR gives Jensen few reasons to go nonlethal, but gives the player a shitload. That's one of the things that disappointed me about it. ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 12:35
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Simiain posted:looking up at Maggie Chow's apartment from the streets of Hong Kong. I preferred looking down from her apartment, having just smashed the window to throw her unconscious body out of it. There needs to be more use of the vertical in these sorts of games. The wealth of options open to you when first exploring a map like Hell's Kitchen or Hong Kong is really special. DXHR had a bit of it, in Hengsha particularly, but unlike the original I've not been stumbling across interesting new secrets on subsequent playthroughs, and they weren't especially exciting spaces to explore. Unrelated, but the Crysis series really squandered that opportunity. With Crysis 2 & 3 you'd think there would have been loads of scope to gently caress about on top of skyscrapers but it's actually surprisingly restrictive given the tools at your disposal.
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Jun 21, 2014 12:58
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Gyshall posted:What is the best way to play Thief 2 these days? The Dark Mod? The Dark Mod is completely separate. In fact, I don't think anyone has re-made Thief 2 in Dark Mod. Honestly, even if they did, I probably wouldn't like it. I guess I'm a purist or something, but I didn't really care for Dark Mod. The whole thing felt 'off'. I'm not sure how to explain it, but everything was obviously 'game-y' which made it impossible to get 'immersed' or whatever. I couldn't shake the feeling that I was walking around in giant boxes. I wish I could explain it better than that. Maybe someone else has an idea.
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Jun 21, 2014 13:48
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O Hanraha-hanrahan posted:I preferred looking down from her apartment, having just smashed the window to throw her unconscious body out of it. I play Deus Ex 1 Batman Style, which means I try to approach every situation the same way Batman would. One of these involved somehow getting out on the ledge of the windows overlooking Maggie Chow's living room and smashing my way in. There's all kinds of interesting stuff around Maggie Chow's apartment building.
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Jun 21, 2014 13:50
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Still the best way to deal with Maggie Chow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7sjoH8Sqc
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Jun 21, 2014 13:53
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Has anyone ever managed to get the password for Tong's hideout if you enter the Triad compound before finishing the Maggie Chow quest? I've never seen it in any code lists, and I'd like to try it out just to see what would happen if you entered Tong's hideout early.
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Aug 24, 2014 15:33
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naM sdrawkcaB posted:Still the best way to deal with Maggie Chow: Don't forget to go back and get the sword from the secret compound. That section of the game made me really happy to have the speed/jump augmentation. Once you're an old hand at Deus Ex it's hilarious how easy some of the sections are compared to how they felt the first time around. ToxicFrog posted:DX:HR gives Jensen few reasons to go nonlethal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A6eeeq_2TE LLCoolJD fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 16:12
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What bugged me a lot about the lethal/non-lethal split in HR is that breaking a guy's arm and then punching him in the face while he shouted in pain was silent while just stabbing him was loud enough to wake the neighbors. At least in Deus Ex they have a hilarious death scream to justify that.
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Aug 24, 2014 16:29
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I like the ones in HR that are sorta half-assed so when they die it's less "AAAAGH YOU KILLED ME" and more "Auuuugh I'm so disappointed that you killed me  ".
CJacobs fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 16:34
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The Deus Ex death scream rules and I won't take anything else for an answer. The bizarre grunt the Chinese soldiers make when they're hauling rear end is even better, but making it play is kind of a pain.
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Aug 24, 2014 16:42
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closeted republican posted:Has anyone ever managed to get the password for Tong's hideout if you enter the Triad compound before finishing the Maggie Chow quest? I've never seen it in any code lists, and I'd like to try it out just to see what would happen if you entered Tong's hideout early.
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Aug 24, 2014 19:34
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closeted republican posted:Has anyone ever managed to get the password for Tong's hideout if you enter the Triad compound before finishing the Maggie Chow quest? I've never seen it in any code lists, and I'd like to try it out just to see what would happen if you entered Tong's hideout early. You can jump over the wall if you have legs 4, I think by using the temple next door, and if you do jump in there they all go hostile on you.
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Aug 24, 2014 19:37
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A nonlethal takedown is always the most silent takedown. If it doesn't work that way, it must not be Deus Ex.
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Aug 25, 2014 00:36
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Well really if we're assessing stealth mechanics you should be able to just walk upright at a normal pace anywhere you go as long as you don't make line of sight with the bad guys. If the area is full of bad guys, they probably already expect to hear other bad guys walking around, they have no way of knowing that it's you doing it. You don't get EXP for the way you choose to walk around though I guess.
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Aug 25, 2014 00:39
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CJacobs posted:Well really if we're assessing stealth mechanics you should be able to just walk upright at a normal pace anywhere you go as long as you don't make line of sight with the bad guys. If the area is full of bad guys, they probably already expect to hear other bad guys walking around, they have no way of knowing that it's you doing it. You don't get EXP for the way you choose to walk around though I guess. His gait is augmented.
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Aug 25, 2014 02:45
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I love using Paul to wipe out most of Liberty Island's enemies. It's a bit slower than simply heading up as normal, but watching Paul murder everyone then tell you about the virtues of non-lethal force after single-handily clearing out the ground floor of Liberty Island is very special. I also got him and Gunther to team up and destroy the robot at the front of the statue with Paul using a sword and Gunther using the 10mm Pistol. Now I'm blowing up doors in the free clinic with the GEP Gun to get a free Medbot, throwing TNT boxes into groups of enemies and blowing out my legs in the process, kidnapping bums and putting them into Smuggler's hideout as human sacrifices for him, throwing dead MJ12 troops into the sewer while saying awful one-liners, and rearranging Manderly's office by putting everything in it next to him. I plan on blowing up the generator and half of the destroyable objects in the warehouse with a LAW, gassing Manderley with a fire extinguisher after his briefing, then locking Simons into a closet. This game 
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Aug 25, 2014 10:47
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game of every year
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Aug 25, 2014 10:50
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The LAW is such a beautiful weapon for loving around with. I used it to blow up the office and the generator, gibbed both Anna and Lebedev in one shot with it while nearly destroying my limbs and framed the engineer outside the 747 for the massacre by knocking him out and putting on Lebedev's bed, then used it to set off an elaborate trap in the NSF warehouse that wiped out everyone on the first floor while a grunt on the third floor politely told me he thought that I wasn't allowed in the warehouse. I now have the LAW in the MJ12 base and can't wait to set up another elaborate trap to use it on. I'm thinking about using it to set up a a chain reaction that will detonate the scientists in the meeting room and the guards in the break room in the MJ12 place under VersaLife in one shot. I just need to see if I can find some TNT boxes in there. Also, I "saved" Paul by piling up five TNT boxes in his apartment, then blew up all of them with a LAM while holding a knocked-out riot cop. The cop will be accompanying me to Hong Kong and will be Tong's new lab assistant.
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Aug 26, 2014 14:27
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closeted republican posted:The LAW is such a beautiful weapon for loving around with. I used it to blow up the office and the generator, gibbed both Anna and Lebedev in one shot with it while nearly destroying my limbs and framed the engineer outside the 747 for the massacre by knocking him out and putting on Lebedev's bed, then used it to set off an elaborate trap in the NSF warehouse that wiped out everyone on the first floor while a grunt on the third floor politely told me he thought that I wasn't allowed in the warehouse. I now have the LAW in the MJ12 base and can't wait to set up another elaborate trap to use it on. I'm thinking about using it to set up a a chain reaction that will detonate the scientists in the meeting room and the guards in the break room in the MJ12 place under VersaLife in one shot. I just need to see if I can find some TNT boxes in there. You made me reinstall the game, thanks.
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Aug 26, 2014 15:03
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I just cut out the middle man and leave it installed at this point.
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Aug 26, 2014 15:10
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I had it uninstalled for a while, but suddenly got the urge to reinstall it out of the blue and replay it as an explosives-loving nutjob while exploring the mechanics to do things like have Paul massacre Liberty Island and feed MJ12 troops to Karkians. So far it's working out just as well as I expected.
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Aug 26, 2014 16:03
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I finally completed Wall Cloud completely nonlethal(no tranq/knockouts onboard the ship), which isn't that bad ordeal as long as you have upgrades to speed enhancement, cloak and GEP gun. Only part where one has to be careful is the helipad weld where wondering guards can get on the way of the rocket and explosive crates close by. Just park yourself in the electricity room to top up on bioenergy, the guards don't patrol there.
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Aug 26, 2014 16:15
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I keep it installed because it's a pain in the rear end to track down all the texture packs and poo poo. Speaking of which, you're using all that poo poo right? New Vision? Beyond that you can add ENB which adds crazy poo poo like bump mapping. I was going to take screenshots but they all look kinda ugly in stills, but it looks good in motion.
SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 26, 2014 16:19
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Rosoboronexport posted:I finally completed Wall Cloud completely nonlethal(no tranq/knockouts onboard the ship) I just carry the dudes out before blowing up the ship.
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Aug 26, 2014 20:07
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closeted republican posted:The LAW is such a beautiful weapon for loving around with. The LAW (with Shifter/Biomod, which turns off the silly "you can only carry one" restriction) is great fun in Vandenburg labs as it gives you about 5 of the drat things, an objective of "blow up all these guys", and a handy roof to stand on and go rapidfire LAW-sniping with.
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Aug 26, 2014 21:00
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EngineerSean posted:I just carry the dudes out before blowing up the ship. I gib them with the DTS. No evidence; no foul.
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Aug 26, 2014 21:02
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A gibbed takedown is always the most silent way to eliminate resistance.
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Aug 26, 2014 21:24
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Prenton posted:The LAW (with Shifter/Biomod, which turns off the silly "you can only carry one" restriction) is great fun in Vandenburg labs as it gives you about 5 of the drat things, an objective of "blow up all these guys", and a handy roof to stand on and go rapidfire LAW-sniping with. Oh poo poo I forgot about the LAW utopia that is Vandenburg. IIRC, it has quite a few TNT boxes and napalm barrels to make even bigger explosions and plenty of grouped-up enemies to make LAW traps worthwhile.  Just need to make sure to save one for later.
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Aug 26, 2014 21:55
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