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Hemp Knight
Sep 26, 2004


I’ve never been particularly realistic.

Like the “say one thing for Logen Ninefingers, say he’s a stinkyhole. Simple as that.”, it’s a great payoff line.

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Gimmedaroot
Aug 10, 2006

America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles of justice and progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.
-Barack Obama

Would it be terrible of me to be introduced to this world by reading "Heroes" first? I got it as a recommendation from GRRM's site, and the premise sounds interesting. Would I miss out on more than just a few inside jokes?

Above Our Own
Jun 24, 2009
semi-professional sassy new forums member greeter



Gimmedaroot posted:

Would it be terrible of me to be introduced to this world by reading "Heroes" first? I got it as a recommendation from GRRM's site, and the premise sounds interesting. Would I miss out on more than just a few inside jokes?
You should read the trilogy first. The other novels can stand on their own but you'll miss a lot of the great character arcs and reveals, and they're good enough to warrant starting with First Law.

e. I asked this same question about whether I should read Heroes before BSC and I'm glad I listened and read BSC first. It really adds weight to many of the characters. Basically it's not story or plot you'd be missing, but a lot of character development and that's the strength of his writing.

UncleMonkey
Jan 11, 2005


We watched our friends grow up together

And we saw them as they fell

Some of them fell into Heaven

Some of them fell into Hell


I would definitely read all the other books first. The First Law trilogy sets up up the larger story of what's going on in the world, as well as introducing important characters and events. And Best Served Cold is important as well, as one of the character story arcs in The Heroes makes numerous references to a particular event from BSC and you're really not going to fully get it without having read that book first. It wouldn't deprive you of following The Heroes necessarily, but you'll have a much greater understanding and appreciation for what's going on if you read all the books in order.

All of the books are well worth your time anyway, to be sure.

Beastie
Nov 3, 2006

They used to call me tricky-kid, I lived the life they wish they did.

I realized this while reading last night, but after reading this series twice I can almost not expect characters in other books to come out alright or have a happy ending.

BananaNutkins
Aug 26, 2004

I'll split you open and I don't even like coconuts.


Gimmedaroot posted:

Would it be terrible of me to be introduced to this world by reading "Heroes" first? I got it as a recommendation from GRRM's site, and the premise sounds interesting. Would I miss out on more than just a few inside jokes?

Read the Heroes first if you want. I am one of those people who think Best Served Cold and the Heroes are really good, but can't easily recommend the original trilogy. You won't miss out on too much other than the background of Shivers, who is a minor character in the trilogy, and if you really like the Heroes you can work backwards.

You'll miss some little nudges and nods, but its not integral.

wellwhoopdedooo
Nov 23, 2007

Pound Trooper!

BananaNutkins posted:

Read the Heroes first if you want. I am one of those people who think Best Served Cold and the Heroes are really good, but can't easily recommend the original trilogy. You won't miss out on too much other than the background of Shivers, who is a minor character in the trilogy, and if you really like the Heroes you can work backwards.

You'll miss some little nudges and nods, but its not integral.

I'd recommend it in order, because I loved the entire series, but only the trilogy really needs to be read in order. And getting to know Shivers first in The Heroes will only make his character arc even more interesting when you read it flashback-style.

Mr Crustacean
May 13, 2009

one (1) robosexual
avatar, as ordered



Read them in order, you'll be spoiled of the endings of the main characters in the original trilogy if you don't.

Clinton1011
Jul 11, 2007


Looks like they pushed the US release of the Red Country up to Oct 23rd so it is much closer to the UK release.

Here's the blog post:
http://www.joeabercrombie.com/2012/06/29/us-release/

UncleMonkey
Jan 11, 2005


We watched our friends grow up together

And we saw them as they fell

Some of them fell into Heaven

Some of them fell into Hell


Hey, is it just me, or did Abercrombie make a mistake in The Heroes? There are a couple of reference made towards the end when Calder is getting ready to fight Black Dow to Logen fighting and killing Bethod in the circle. However, that's not what happened. Logen actually fought that giant with the magical tattoos. He killed Bethod after winning that fight.

Clinton1011
Jul 11, 2007


UncleMonkey posted:

Hey, is it just me, or did Abercrombie make a mistake in The Heroes? There are a couple of reference made towards the end when Calder is getting ready to fight Black Dow to Logen fighting and killing Bethod in the circle. However, that's not what happened. Logen actually fought that giant with the magical tattoos. He killed Bethod after winning that fight.

He tossed his corpse into the circle after smashing his head to pulp , I think that is what Calder was referring too. I don't have the text in front of me though so I might be remembering incorrectly.

Grand Prize Winner
Feb 19, 2007


Correct me if needed, but Calder wasn't at the duel between Logen and the Feared, so Calder might have been interpreting what happened based on second-hand accounts.

Above Our Own
Jun 24, 2009
semi-professional sassy new forums member greeter



Fenris the Feared was Bethod's champion, representing Bethod in the northern tradition of single combat to resolve leadership disputes. When Logen killed Fenris, he effectively ousted Bethod from power (and also killed him).

John Charity Spring
Nov 3, 2009

ACTIVATE THE QUEEN


Well look what we have here. The nearly-final UK cover for Red Country.



Even fuller version here. And the accompanying blog post.

Rurik
Mar 5, 2010

Thief
Warrior
Gladiator
Grand Prince

Abercrombie's books' covers are cool, but their still pretty cliché and disbelievable - albeit differently than most fantasy with their scantily clad women. Who on earth keeps their knives, daggers and coins scattered on the map like that? And what use is a map so drenched in blood anyway?

Evfedu
Feb 28, 2007


Oh my God It's Cosca again.

Rurik
Mar 5, 2010

Thief
Warrior
Gladiator
Grand Prince

Cosca AND the B9! I wonder how that plays out.

Mr Crustacean
May 13, 2009

one (1) robosexual
avatar, as ordered



Rurik posted:

Cosca AND the B9! I wonder how that plays out.

With great humour, then much blood.

UncleMonkey
Jan 11, 2005


We watched our friends grow up together

And we saw them as they fell

Some of them fell into Heaven

Some of them fell into Hell


Rurik posted:

Cosca AND the B9! I wonder how that plays out.
I seriously don't know how the hell I'm supposed to make it to October. What if something happens before then? What if I get hit by a bus? I need this book NOW!

And I love the UK cover.

Clinton1011
Jul 11, 2007


So did I read something wrong or is that cover describing The Bloody Nine as a coward

The Gunslinger
Jul 24, 2004

Do not forget the face of your father.

Clinton1011 posted:

So did I read something wrong or is that cover describing The Bloody Nine as a coward

He's living under a different name as a cowardly uncle to the novels protagonist was the main gist IIRC.

UncleMonkey
Jan 11, 2005


We watched our friends grow up together

And we saw them as they fell

Some of them fell into Heaven

Some of them fell into Hell


Clinton1011 posted:

So did I read something wrong or is that cover describing The Bloody Nine as a coward
The description says he's hiding a bloody past of his own, so he's probably still trying to fight his violent nature and be a better man.

Of course it won't last, though. You have to be realistic about these things...

Mr.48
May 1, 2007


Clinton1011 posted:

So did I read something wrong or is that cover describing The Bloody Nine as a coward

Well that would make sense if hes trying to avoid going berserk on people since he would be avoiding fights and confrontations.

Fly Molo
May 7, 2007

You guys are so cute, I could just maul you to death.


^^Yeah, and maybe he's just trying to keep a low profile. People tend to spread stories about cackling unkillable berserkers, if any witnesses survive, and he's got a bunch of enemies. Calling it now, the massacre that cover mentions is all his doing.

Cosca and Logen, loving bitches, drinking wine, and loving up bad(der) guys? I can't wait.

Red Mundus
Oct 22, 2010


I've been hearing a lot of great things about this author/series and so far everything I've seen looks great.

I just have one question. Is there a lot of surprise sex in the series? I've heard a lot of people say how it's a better version of GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire and I know the books are infamous about including scenes of that nature. It's one of the reasons I could never get into it.

Nothing against surprise sex used in fiction or even occasional references to it in literature(e.g. The Virgin Spring). It's a personal thing as opposed to anything the author writes or anything like that.

Red Mundus fucked around with this message at Jul 12, 2012 around 04:50

Above Our Own
Jun 24, 2009
semi-professional sassy new forums member greeter



Red Mundus posted:

Nothing against surprise sex



No not really I don't remember any rapes at all.

Red Mundus
Oct 22, 2010


Above Our Own posted:




No not really I don't remember any rapes at all.

Thanks! Looks like I have a new series to get in to. I assume I should start with the first books and work my way forward?

Also, stop cherry picking my quotes!

Red Mundus fucked around with this message at Jul 12, 2012 around 14:31

Jeffrey
Dec 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 3 days!


Above Our Own posted:




No not really I don't remember any rapes at all.

There's some implied but I don't remember any "on screen".

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

Jazz Hands Bonanza!


Jeffrey posted:

There's some implied but I don't remember any "on screen".

There's one scene that immediately pops to mind, but it is resolved very quickly and never really touched on again afterwards.

Mr.48
May 1, 2007


Red Mundus posted:

Thanks! Looks like I have a new series to get into to. I assume I should start with the first books and work my way forward?

Yep, read them all in chronological order.

Jeffrey
Dec 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 3 days!


Bussamove posted:

There's one scene that immediately pops to mind, but it is resolved very quickly and never really touched on again afterwards.

I forgot about that one, not the one I was thinking of. I guess there are two.

Rurik
Mar 5, 2010

Thief
Warrior
Gladiator
Grand Prince

You know what, I actually read your post and Above Our Own's quote in it the way that I understood that Above Our Own says in the quote that he doesn't enjoy surprise sex in fiction. So he'd be saying that it's good if there's no surprise sex and you're disapproving of it.

I've been exposed the the GRRM Bad Thread for way too long.

Above Our Own
Jun 24, 2009
semi-professional sassy new forums member greeter



Yeah I guess it might be alluded to that some characters had been abused in the past or something, but IIRC there's no surprise sex descriptions in the text or anything like that. If there were they weren't very memorable rapes.

And you should read them in order if you've got the time, it will enhance your appreciation of the character arcs and world development.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

Jazz Hands Bonanza!


Above Our Own posted:

Yeah I guess it might be alluded to that some characters had been abused in the past or something, but IIRC there's no surprise sex descriptions in the text or anything like that. If there were they weren't very memorable rapes.

And you should read them in order if you've got the time, it will enhance your appreciation of the character arcs and world development.

Reading them in order is definitely the way to go. You miss out on far too many nuances and subtle hints otherwise.

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009


I really don't understand people who ask if they should read things in order. Yes, presumably a series builds on to the previous novel in terms of history, characters, motivations and so on.

BananaNutkins
Aug 26, 2004

I'll split you open and I don't even like coconuts.


Red Mundus posted:

I've been hearing a lot of great things about this author/series and so far everything I've seen looks great.

I just have one question. Is there a lot of surprise sex in the series? I've heard a lot of people say how it's a better version of GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire and I know the books are infamous about including scenes of that nature. It's one of the reasons I could never get into it.

Nothing against surprise sex used in fiction or even occasional references to it in literature(e.g. The Virgin Spring). It's a personal thing as opposed to anything the author writes or anything like that.

The two are nothing alike in tone or structure, save that they are in the same genre and have occasional descriptions of the old ultra violence. Abercrombie's work is more comic-booky. There is surprise sex in Abercrombie's books The melty-faced blacksmith's daughter, gets raped or nearly does, doesn't she? And what happens to Terez is arguably worse than your run of the mill back alley surprise sex

UncleMonkey
Jan 11, 2005


We watched our friends grow up together

And we saw them as they fell

Some of them fell into Heaven

Some of them fell into Hell


BananaNutkins posted:

The two are nothing alike in tone or structure, save that they are in the same genre and have occasional descriptions of the old ultra violence. Abercrombie's work is more comic-booky. There is surprise sex in Abercrombie's books The melty-faced blacksmith's daughter, gets raped or nearly does, doesn't she? And what happens to Terez is arguably worse than your run of the mill back alley surprise sex
She almost does. But West shows up in time to stop it and throws Ladisla off of a cliff in one of my all time favorite moments in all of the books so far. It's how he earns his name..

And yeah, poor Terez. I felt so awful for her.

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009


To be fair there are like three characters who you DON'T feel awful for by the end of the books.

Hemp Knight
Sep 26, 2004


UncleMonkey posted:

She almost does. But West shows up in time to stop it and throws Ladisla off of a cliff in one of my all time favorite moments in all of the books so far. It's how he earns his name..


Wasn't that actually in the fight immediately beforehand, when he bites someone's nose off?

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UncleMonkey
Jan 11, 2005


We watched our friends grow up together

And we saw them as they fell

Some of them fell into Heaven

Some of them fell into Hell


Hemp Knight posted:

Wasn't that actually in the fight immediately beforehand, when he bites someone's nose off?
Ohhhh yeah, you're right. Black Dow just says it again after the fact, that's what I was thinking of.

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