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ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
You don't need to use agent orange in the desert. Also, every semi liberal media organization would of been all over the US for using it.

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ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005

Mr. Grapes! posted:

Germany's army got pretty large and also by the end they were drafting children and old men. Besides, Germany and Italy were not the only European Axis members.

Fighting on Germany's team (with varying levels of involvement) were Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Finland, Croatia, and a number of puppet states they set up throughout Europe like Slovakia. Even 'neutral' countries like Spain contributed thousands upon thousands of troops to the Axis.

Germany also fielded huge numbers of foreign recruits. Way more than 50% of the vaunted SS (Who are always blonde Aryan supermen in movies) were not German. There was even a Muslim SS legion alongside units from ALL OVER Europe (they even had a tiny British Legion).

Lots of people joined up with the Germans not out of any sense of German patriotism but just because Germany was fighting the big bad USSR and everyone wanted to stop the Red Hordes. Others joined just for the food and paycheck. Thousands of former Soviet citizens joined because they thought killing off the USSR would give their homelands a better chance at becoming independent - this was a big reason why lots of Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Latvians, etc joined.

Any good books on this kind of stuff?

ADMIRAL SNACKBAR, do you think war is futile?

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005

Rapacity posted:

I've really enjoyed this thread and, as a great number of questions are about WWII, I can't recommend the documentary The World at War highly enough. It was broadcast in 1973 and, as such, contains a great number of first hand interviews and accounts of the war from the perspective of most major nations involved.

It'll take you a while to get through but, if you're like me, you'll be hooked from the beginning. There are no reconstructions or actors; just immense amounts of actual (and harrowing) footage. Total running time must be about 25 hours but it's well worth it.

The whole thing is up on Youtube and I've linked the first part of each episode below so that you can see which order they come in. They're all several parts long and those can be easily found in related vids for each respective one.

The World at War

Episode 1: A New Germany: 1933-1939
Episode 2: Distant War: September 1939-May 1940
Episode 3: France Falls: May-June 1940
Episode 4: Alone: May 1940-May 1941
Episode 5: Barbarossa: June-December 1941
Episode 6: Banzai! Japan: 1931-1942
Episode 7: On Our Way: U.S.A. - 1939-1942
Episode 8: The Desert: North Africa - 1940-1943
Episode 9: Stalingrad: June 1942-February 1943
Episode 10: Wolf Pack: U-Boats in the Atlantic - 1939-1944
Episode 11: Red Star: The Soviet Union - 1941-1943
Episode 12: Whirlwind: Bombing Germany - September 1939-April 1944
Episode 13: Tough Old Gut: Italy - November 1942-June 1944
Episode 14: It's a Lovely Day Tomorrow: Burma - 1942-1944
Episode 15: Home Fires: Britain - 1940-1944
Episode 16: Inside the Reich: Germany - 1940-1944
Episode 17: Morning: June-August 1944
Episode 18: Occupation: Holland - 1940-1944
Episode 19: Pincers: August 1944-March 1945
Episode 20: Genocide: 1941-1945
Episode 21: Nemesis: Germany - February-May 1945
Episode 22: Japan: 1941-1945
Episode 23: Pacific: February 1942-July 1945
Episode 24: The Bomb: February-September 1945
Episode 25: Reckoning: 1945... and After
Episode 26: Remember

Won't be news to the op but I hope at least someone watches these who may have missed them otherwise.


Just finished watching this entire thing. Really needs to be shown in its entirety to every school child at least once.

Needs more Ambrose though...

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
How could the German command not see this happening prior to the operation?

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
The Guns of August is a very interesting book that goes into great detail about the first month of the war. Highly recommended.

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005

Vino posted:

That's a great idea! Thanks.

Any other thoughts on how to add things like rivers or cliffs into the game are welcome. Or, if someone just wants to tell a story about some time when a river or forest or cliff or other natural obstacle proved to be important during a battle, I'd love to hear.

Read about military history much?

I think the Games forum would be a better place for you.

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005

OctaviusBeaver posted:

Would Britain and France have been better off not declaring war on Germany when Poland fell and instead continued to rearm? Would Hitler ever have attacked the SU if France and Britain were still around and at peace with Germany?


Would of never happened, neither would/will allow a German dominated Europe.

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005

dokmo posted:

I'm reading Tuchman's Guns of August and she portrays Joffre as a tunnel-visioned bumbler who can only focus on the Plan 17 offensive at the start of the war, ignoring all reports of a large German right wing offense, temperamentally incapaple of listening to subordinates who call for a defensive strategy. I can't believe anyone this stupid would be put in charge, and suspect that Tuchman may have exaggerated Joffre's decision making for dramatic effect. What is the historical consensus on Joffe?

The plan was to beat the Germans in the Alsace-Lorraine region forcing the Germans right wing to lose the initiative. Everyone and their brother knew what the Germans were doing, just a matter of stopping them.

Because of Joffre's defense at the First Battle of the Marne, he was redeemed of his failures at the beginning.

I don't think Tuchman exaggerated anything. Stupid mistakes were made by both sides all throughout the war, and made even dumber with hindsight.


A very good book non the less.

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
Was the main plan for a Soviet breakthrough at the Fulda gap to just lob tactical nukes at them?

Unrelated:

I have heard from word of mouth that some sectors of the US military are shifting a large amount of training to civil disobedience. I understand this is needed in "nation building" in places such as Iraq and Afghanistan. However, was told some of this training took place in simulated US urban areas. Probably just paranoid blabber, but was hoping some goons could shed light on this situation.

Are there any parallels in history in which a large, professional, well equipped army had a switch in doctrine (over time) from symmetrical to asymmetrical warfare?

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005

Red7 posted:

A training area is a training area, civil disobedience is civil disobedience regardless of it being in the Washington suburbs or downtown Baghdad. The British Army train in simulated German village, it doesn't mean we're planning a coup in Northern Europe though.

I just don't understand why, if it is true at all, we would be training our armed forces in a role that they are not meant to be in. What would be the purpose of training for a scenario that involves US cities and US civilians that involves combat units?

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
A large projection screen was placed in a gym, troops with weapons were told to engage the threats. The screen showed a modern US city with US civilians roaming around.

This is anecdotal information.

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005

HeroOfTheRevolution posted:

I think someone's pulling your leg.

It comes from a reliable source of someone who is been in the military for 30+ years.

They have simulators were you troops can use realistic weapons to engage targets on a screen.

That is why I brought this question up. It doesn't make sense to me either, I don't understand why something like this would occur.



It does matter what your training environment looks like.

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
A often overlooked portion of military history: Food.

It has been said during Roman era warfare (and probably before and after that) whoever had the best breakfast that day would likely win the fight.

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
What are some goods books related to past and present military engineering?

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
I have a few Napoleon questions...

Being bogged down in Spain, in poor health and well aware of the logistics involved, why did he go into Russia?

If he had not of gone into Russia, would they have invaded Poland knowing they would be fighting the armies of Europe on their turf?

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
That Captain C sounds like an interesting fellow...

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
While we are on all this wonderful hypothetical history discussion, I would like to switch this focus to that of the Huns. From what I remember having read, no one has found any concrete evidence on why or where they came from where did. Now had this event not lead to their movement across the steppe and starting the game of billiard ball history in Europe. How long would Europe be hailing the Imperator?

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
What I gather from all of these discussions regarding alternate scenario WW2 is that from the onset, the German fate was set in stone. What about WW1 though? They were able to remove the Russian threat, and had come close to marching in Paris in the August of 1914. Could the Germans of "won" the Great War?

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005

WoodrowSkillson posted:

"Why the WRE fell?" is a really hard question to answer, because there is no one reason for it. Bad leadership, horrible treatment of the Goths, paying the soldiers so much they could not afford to field enough armies, constant civil war, The Huns, The Vandals, The Goths, The Sassanids, The Franks, and Josephus running around with giant joints in chariots getting all the troops high.

Few can agree on when it fell, let alone why. I think to begin to understand the answer to that question you have to understand the entire history of Rome. Hell, some historians have made arguements that the WRE is alive and well today.

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
Yes, because the other Allied forces held so dear to there principles as well. When push comes to shove, a nation will do what it perceives to be in its best interest at the present moment, no matter its ideology. Russia had been the whipping boy/laughing stock of Europe for centuries, including their interventions during and after WW1. It is important to keep that in mind when thinking about what was going through Stalin's mind.

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005

Alchenar posted:

That's not true. The MkI was developed specifically to be an armoured vehicle and the development was contracted to a tractor company because that's what cross-country vehicles are in 1915. It was called a 'tank' because the first units were shipped labelled as 'water tanks' for the sake of secrecy and the name stuck.

Likewise the Spitfire was designed from the ground up to fit a military specification.



They will always be "land ships" in my eyes...

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
At least drowning is relatively quick. Imagine the poor sops in no man's land who where injured and unable to get back to the trenches, slow, agonizing, and most likely being attacked by rats...

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovak_Legions#section_1

The Czech Legion played a interesting role in the Russian revolution.

A motley crew of slavs from the Austro-Hungarian empire who chose to fight on the side of the entente. After the collapse of the Tsar they find themselves trapped in Russia. End up taking over a train and having to take it all the way through Siberia and get out of Russia through Vladivostok. This of course took some time, and they were invloved in a lot of interesting events along the way, including the execution of the Tsar... All because they just wanted to get home.

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
The stories of the Japanese riding on the rims of their bicycles through the jungles of Southeast Asia are pretty interesting.

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005

Squalid posted:

Care to share them then, ganglysumbia?

Sure thing.

They rode their bicycles through the jungle and attacked Signapore. Where the British forces promptly surrendered and spent the rest of the war in a nice cozy POW camp.

ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
I cannot locate where it was mentioned. But I remember reading about classical Greek? soldiers returning from battle/war and receiving some sort of purification ritual. The consensus was that even back then people were aware of the trauma slicing someones face open can cause you.

I think would be cool if we somehow purified our warriors upon returning from war. Maybe douse them in goats blood or something? Would be much more manly than having them talk to some shrink.

ganglysumbia fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jun 21, 2012

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ganglysumbia
Jan 29, 2005
A fortified position or your own horse archers.

Are there any instances of the Mongols being defeated in their prime?

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