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ImpAtom posted:Well, that's your choice, but most people would strongly disagree with you. It is over half the game's content and features new bosses, items, enemies and content that is not present in the main castle, as well as an actual resolution to the plot. It's 'optional' insomuch as you will get the credits to roll if you don't find the item, but it isn't optional if you want access to most of the game's content or resolution to plot. So are you saying that a reviewer's ignorance is a valid excuse for factually misleading information in their review? Say someone wrote a review of Persona 4 blasting it for "the game builds up promisingly, but then ends abruptly with little resolution and a disappointingly easy final boss battle". Or, assuming that the inverted castle has half the gameplay and story in SotN, if someone reviewed that as "the game is too short and too many threads in the storyline are left hanging". Would you accept that as "well, the game didn't make it completely obvious that this content existed, so they're excused for not knowing"?
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May 4, 2010 09:43
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Xythar posted:So are you saying that a reviewer's ignorance is a valid excuse for factually misleading information in their review? A game doing a poor job of explaining to people without a FAQ that there is extra content can easily be the fault of the game. I love Persona 4, but there are people who had to use a FAQ to get past the first set of questions, let alone to figure out that there was another ending after beating the second seemingly final boss. I like Persona 4 but that's a real problem and good reviews called it on that. I also seem to recall the paper I got from Atlus when reviewing Persona 4 specifically mentioned the ending thing. Nier has a different problem: You know exactly what to do, but not what sidequests are totally optional and which are "kinda optional." Without a FAQ, your only option is to do every bit of content until you stumble upon the correct ones. This is a serious problem because there are 60-odd sidequests in the game and 4 of those are necessary. That is bad odds in your favor for random guessing, even if you remove the ones that are locked out. You'll get it eventually, but it will likely involved a lot of random grinding and unenjoyable sidequests. With Persona 4, the problem is "Okay, I did something wrong? How do I fix that?" This is annoying, but less frustrating because there is a coherent goal. With Nier, the question is "Okay, which of these seemingly identical sidequests gets me the item I need or unlocks a sidequest that gets me the item I need?" There's no real goal other then "do sidequests until you stumble onto the right option." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 10:09 on May 4, 2010 |
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May 4, 2010 10:06
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Dominic White posted:That's pretty much the vibe I've gotten from the game so far. The gameplay is fairly basic (although can we stop this 'Admit it's objectively bad! You know it's true!' witchhunt - it's loving stupid), but everything else just comes together to result in something with so much more soul than most games released today. Especially as they're really not that different from a few other games. Basically it's "Wait for a bite, press a button, hold the stick in a direction" I'm pretty sure Twilight Princess had more complicated fishing.
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May 4, 2010 10:13
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Ddraig posted:Especially as they're really not that different from a few other games. The problem isn't the mechanics, it is the placement of the beach. People, for whatever reason, don't notice the X and so they assume when the Fisherman says "go to the beach," he means the one next to him. The way the Nier fishing mechanics work is that this fucks you heavily, because you're facing Fish above your 'fishing level' who are a pain to catch/may automatically escape, and even if you succeed, it doesn't get you the Fish you need. I agree that players are somewhat at fault for not looking at their map, but it was really goofy design to say "go to the beach" and actually mean "go to the beach on the other side of the map, not the one directly next to me."
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May 4, 2010 10:15
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I was lurking around GameFAQs earlier today for material locations and I noticed someone posting something very interesting, no it wasn't another "waaaa replicant" thing it was a list of Drakengard weapons. At first I sorta laughed it off but I went back to The Dark Id's LP of Drakengard and did the comparisons and holy poo poo, they're right. If you've got these weapons, just load 'em up on the weapon menu and take a good look at them. Some of them only apply on their fully upgraded versions but be damned if not all of these match almost perfectly. (I unfortunately couldn't find pictures of a couple) Liliy-leaf Sword = Writheheart Nirvana Dagger = Maiden's Kris Moonrise = Moonfire Rebirth = Ravenfeeder Earth Wyrm's Claw = Dragonhook Blade of treachery = Skald's Song Faith = Takamasa Ancient Overlord = Kingsblood Axe of Beheading = Lovekeeper Fang of the Twins = Twins' Fang Vile Axe = Foul Blade Iron Will = Hymir's Finger Spear of the Usurper = Robber King Devil Queen = Widow's Death Sunrise = Fheng's Glaive Captain's Holy Spear = Battlelust Dragoon Lance = Knight's Vow The amazing part is that not only do these weapons match in physical appearance, but a majority (if not all) of them actually share similar stories. Sunrise tells of its ability to cause painless death, which its Drakengard equivalent "Fheng's Glaive" mentions. The Nirvana Dagger mentions girls being sacrificed at a temple, just like it's friend the Skald's Song. I don't know whether to call Cavia lazy for doing this, or brilliant for going so far out of their way for Drakengard references. at least verdelet isn't in the game
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May 4, 2010 10:28
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Policenaut posted:at least verdelet isn't in the game They'll add him as DLC. You know, I think it's pretty  that the way you save your game is by writing letters to your sick daughter about all the places you visit.
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May 4, 2010 11:00
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ImpAtom posted:A game doing a poor job of explaining to people without a FAQ that there is extra content can easily be the fault of the game. I love Persona 4, but there are people who had to use a FAQ to get past the first set of questions, let alone to figure out that there was another ending after beating the second seemingly final boss. I like Persona 4 but that's a real problem and good reviews called it on that. I also seem to recall the paper I got from Atlus when reviewing Persona 4 specifically mentioned the ending thing. So umm, why dont we go check out your responses in teh Resonance of Fate thread where you bravely defend the reviewer from all attacks. Shield on white night, shield on
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May 4, 2010 11:20
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Xythar posted:They'll add him as DLC. They way they handled the father/daughter relationship was really cute. I seriously can't imagine it working as well for brother/sister like they do in Replicant. I'm really glad we got this version, it holds a lot more weight. It also made the occasional sequences where the diary entries are replaced by subject reports a lot creepier. Exmond posted:So umm, why dont we go check out your responses in teh Resonance of Fate thread where you bravely defend the reviewer from all attacks. Sure, whatever works for you pal. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:37 on May 4, 2010 |
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May 4, 2010 11:35
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Policenaut posted:I was lurking around GameFAQs earlier today for material locations and I noticed someone posting something very interesting, no it wasn't another "waaaa replicant" thing it was a list of Drakengard weapons. At first I sorta laughed it off but I went back to The Dark Id's LP of Drakengard and did the comparisons and holy poo poo, they're right. When Caim was finally brought down he exploded like a macabre pinata and scattered his weaponry collection around the world.
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May 4, 2010 13:13
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Best moment so far (with the exception of Kainé's assless pants): the prince finding the royal mask. Holy Zelda tribute! Question, though: does anyone have a good method for fighting wolves? I'm trying to do the Little Hero sidequest which involves finding a wolf lair and it's a grim loving deathmarch. Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 13:55 on May 4, 2010 |
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May 4, 2010 13:52
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Der Shovel posted:Best moment so far (with the exception of Kainé's assless pants): the prince finding the royal mask. Holy Zelda tribute! Charged-up Dark Hand is my strategy for pretty much everything so far, that included.
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May 4, 2010 14:01
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Xythar posted:Charged-up Dark Hand is my strategy for pretty much everything so far, that included. Yeah it works but jesus, gently caress whoever thought that section was fun.
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May 4, 2010 14:02
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On easy it lasts all of 20 seconds 
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May 4, 2010 14:27
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Der Shovel posted:Best moment so far (with the exception of Kainé's assless pants): the prince finding the royal mask. Holy Zelda tribute! Stick a nice damage boost word on Dark Blast and tap it so that it's constantly firing the bigger bolt. Generally if one hits a wolf it gets held in place while the rest land, and it goes down in a few hits. Much easier than chasing it around and faster than using charged magic.
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May 4, 2010 15:37
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Are you guys mostly just using a faq to figure out where to grind for items to upgrade? I really do hate this upgrade system. Titanium alloys ugh..
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May 4, 2010 15:48
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I went the opposite route and didn't bother upgrading my items at all. It's totally not necessary unless you're playing on Hard mode or something, in general the weapons you can buy and your magic will carry you through just fine. Also titanium alloys are easy, if mildly time-consuming, to get in the second part of the game. They're pretty much a guaranteed rare drop (  ) from a new miniboss type enemy that starts appearing in specific rooms. The only other thing you can get from them are the main upgrade items for Iron Will / Hymir's Finger, which is their rare, er, rare drop. Basically by the time you can get them reliably in large numbers they're pretty pointless, to be honest. If you're in part 1 you're better off buying the Beastbain from the village shop and tooling around with it then you are upgrading the Nameless Sword or whatever.Besides, you need like 20 Titanium Alloys for sidequests so you're really better off not using them 
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May 4, 2010 16:25
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UselessLurker posted:I went the opposite route and didn't bother upgrading my items at all. It's totally not necessary unless you're playing on Hard mode or something, in general the weapons you can buy and your magic will carry you through just fine.
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May 4, 2010 18:14
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jannik posted:I did this as well and had an awesome time with the game. I just don't get why some people do the grindy side-quests or bother upgrading weapons and then complain about those aspects of the game. Yeah. Biggest tip about this game that I can give you: Cavia are dicks. The upgrade system and grindy sidequests exist for no other purpose than to waste your time. You will easily have enough money to buy everything you ever wanted just by sticking to the quests that don't have you collecting fifty bear asses, and seriously even with weak weapons most enemies will probably fall over in two seconds later on simply because your attack damage has a lot to do with your level/innate attack strength stat. If you really, really feel the need to have a powerful weapon your first time through the game, read the following. As soon as Part 2 starts go to Facade and buy the Phoenix Spear. It is absurdly powerful and only costs 31,000 or so bucks. Sure spears have a normal attack that's kinda lovely except against bosses but the triangle attack turns you into pointy death. After you're done with that go beat up the final boss using the weapon you get from completing the fortune teller's sidequest. Using that weapon on the final boss is the only respectable way to beat it down.
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May 4, 2010 21:12
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jannik posted:I did this as well and had an awesome time with the game. I just don't get why some people do the grindy side-quests or bother upgrading weapons and then complain about those aspects of the game. Give people the option of a pointless timesink - especially one linked to achievements/trophies - and they WILL do it. And complain about it all the way. See Hammeredspace practically giving himself an ulcer trying to grind through 100% of Star Ocean 4 (as much as I liked SO4s gameplay, I'd rather be waterboarded than 100% it). In a perfect world, this game might go some way to break obsessive-compulsive completionists of their habit. But realistically? I don't think anyone is going to come away from this learning anything. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 21:45 on May 4, 2010 |
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May 4, 2010 21:22
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I can't help but think Cavia could have used Facade's Strange-Thing store to maybe offer a randomized inventory that would occasionally let you buy the harder to find materials, but then I remember Cavia hates me and instead the guy just sells surf boards. gently caress 
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May 4, 2010 21:33
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It does troll those completionists beautifully, though. So you want your awesome spear upgraded? 'kay, bring me some eggs. Also I need ten bundles of wheat to cook pasta for some goddamned reason or other. While you're at it go down into the depths of Robot Hell and bring me a bunch of machine oil. How are you gonna carry it? gently caress if I know dude, I'm just the guy asking you to do completely retarded poo poo and you do it anyway. Use magic or something. And don't come back without those logs!
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May 4, 2010 22:12
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UselessLurker posted:It does troll those completionists beautifully, though. So you want your awesome spear upgraded? 'kay, bring me some eggs. Also I need ten bundles of wheat to cook pasta for some goddamned reason or other. While you're at it go down into the depths of Robot Hell and bring me a bunch of machine oil. How are you gonna carry it? gently caress if I know dude, I'm just the guy asking you to do completely retarded poo poo and you do it anyway. Use magic or something. And don't come back without those logs! It's also great that Cavia put in multiple achievements/trophies that basically work against the completionist mindset. There's one for beating the game under 15 hours, which is virtually impossible if you're going to try and do everything and there's the Ending which basically tells you to gently caress off and negates everything you've done. Cavia's trolling has gone meta!
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May 4, 2010 22:33
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It is grindy, but it is very easy to platinum/1000gp. Compare with things like Disgaea or White Knight Chronicle if you want real punishment.
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May 5, 2010 00:07
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Policenaut posted:
I think it makes sense. I mean, NIER is supposed to take place in a world that USED to be like ours, why would there be all these mystical weapons with special powers unless they came from somewhere else? Also, you weren't kidding about the moonflower quest, that poo poo is ridiculous.
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May 5, 2010 00:37
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I find it interesting that not all the weapons are present, I would imagine though that Cavia is probably saving some of them for future DLC like they've mentioned they were making. I'd definitely like to give Caim's Sword to Nier and watch him continue the legacy of genocide and murder with it. that or maybe an ending e that has caim in it please
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May 5, 2010 00:42
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Dantes posted:It is grindy, but it is very easy to platinum/1000gp. For an RPG maybe, but after reading the list of weapon upgrades I think I've lost all my will to plat this (and I got plat in FF13). There's 30 weapons and each one has to be upgraded 3 times, that's 90 upgrades with each one requiring a whole bunch of items that you need to grind for. Adamantoise farming sounds fun by comparison. Honestly, if not for the weapon upgrade trophies I would probably give it a shot. It's kind of funny that the trophies for doing sidequests only go up to 30, but for weapon upgrades you need to do every. single. one. Xythar fucked around with this message at 00:49 on May 5, 2010 |
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May 5, 2010 00:47
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Policenaut posted:I find it interesting that not all the weapons are present, I would imagine though that Cavia is probably saving some of them for future DLC like they've mentioned they were making. I'd definitely like to give Caim's Sword to Nier and watch him continue the legacy of genocide and murder with it. I kind of like to think that ???/Shadowlord might be Caim himself. The timing would be almost right, assuming a miraculous survival of a fall from high up in the air, and you never do get a good look at his face in the prologue, what with the hood and his hair pretty much constantly covering his eyes
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May 5, 2010 01:46
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The game is a good reminder of why I had to slow down my consumption of asian movies/anime. Those guys like their melodrama/bittersweet way too much.
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May 5, 2010 04:13
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Xythar posted:Honestly, if not for the weapon upgrade trophies I would probably give it a shot. It's kind of funny that the trophies for doing sidequests only go up to 30, but for weapon upgrades you need to do every. single. one. To be honest, a lot of them aren't that bad to collect. A lot of the materials can drop faster with +30% Drop words and the game set on Easy, it's just that some materials are complete dicks and the game has unreasonable expectations involving them. Like "Dented Metal Bat" (rare, requires 21 in total), "Eagle Egg" (rare, needs 4, can only be found in one spot in the entire game which is losable), and "Black Pearl" (rare, needs 15, only found in one town) which are totally unreasonable as far as I'm concerned. Cavia should make some sort of material shop for DLC or something because, gently caress, for all the easy weapons there's a "Level Iron Pipe to 4! Give me 21 Metal Bats!"
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May 5, 2010 04:21
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Where do you get the Eagle Eggs then?
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May 5, 2010 09:07
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It's located in The Aerie, on the platform beneath the Village Chief's house. You actually find one once for part of a quest near the beginning of the game, and that's basically the only spot in the entire game where Eagle Eggs appear. It's also a regular gather point so if it's not sparkling then you'll have to reload the game, and after the return in Part 2 you'll be unable to ever go back and get that gather point.
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May 5, 2010 09:09
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So those of you who have played through a second time with all the revelations they bring, what's your favorite part? Mine's probably The entire wedding ceremony of the Prince of Facade. The wolves have lived peacefully alongside them until the fear and mistrust caused the people of Facade to kill them before the wolves attacked them. The entire story of Roc and how he came to be was pretty aswell - His master was dying anyway, so he opted to have his dog go Gestalt instead of him.Also what was the deal with Wendy, that big "village" entity thing in the Aerie? I assume it was just a big amalgamation of all the shades of the Aerie taken on a huge physical form but it's pretty weird how it happened. I guess it was due to the weird flaws that the Gestalt program has thanks to Yonah (which probably explains why there's some freaky, incredibly hosed up shades that couldn't possible be humans/animals
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May 5, 2010 13:21
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Holy poo poo I caught a 900 pound catfish How did that thing not snap the fishing rod in two edit: and how am I even carrying it around with me Xythar fucked around with this message at 14:17 on May 5, 2010 |
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May 5, 2010 14:12
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Xythar posted:Holy poo poo I caught a 900 pound catfish
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May 5, 2010 14:21
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The heaviest fish I've caught so far is a Dunkleosteus, which weighed an incredible 18182.42lbs
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May 5, 2010 14:28
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Ahahah that is hilarious. I think someone put the decimal point in the wrong place when doing some of these. Why are rusty buckets eating my sardines  They don't even have a metabolism!edit: hahahah this is hilarious, there's a quest called Bon Appetit! which requires you to get five each of two really easy-to-find items (which I think can just be bought) but also five sharks which require you to spend a pretty significant amount of time leveling up your fishing skill on the fishing quests before you can catch them at all. It was the last quest I completed in the first part of the game. When you finally get everything together, the tavern keeper makes the dish he needed the ingredients for and then Nier is like "it's alright, but I can barely taste the sharkfin, maybe you could save time by just leaving the shark out" and the tavern keeper is like "yeah I guess". CAVIA  
Xythar fucked around with this message at 14:44 on May 5, 2010 |
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May 5, 2010 14:33
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Haha, yeah, the quest banter is really good and is frequently trolling the player. In hindsight, the game really is a giant troll to trophy grinders.
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May 5, 2010 15:35
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Welp, passed the halfway (?) point. Boss fight was mad cool. poo poo-hog? Oh come now, that's not even a real word! Question regarding a choice: what happens if you choose "Do nothing and be annihilated"? Also, if anyone was wondering precisely what the old man in the library in part 2 says (that ties in to Drakengard) I think I'm beginning to understand. Climate change wasn't the cause of our woes; it was only a symptom. The real trouble started when something terrible came down from the sky... It seems this event turned the world into a "metropolis of salt". I guess they're talking about how most of the cities sunk into the ocean.
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May 5, 2010 16:13
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How could everyone leave out the fact that this is a first(third)-person bullet hell shooter out of their descriptions? That would've made this a much easier buy for me. From everything I gathered I expected something quite different, but I'm happy my expectations were wrong. Though I did waste 5$ in renting it first... Anyway. What carries over into a newgame+? Levels, weapons, items, material compenents, ect.? I would look it up on Gamefaqs but I'm spoiler-phobic.
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May 5, 2010 17:06
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Levels, weapons, items, words - pretty much everything of any value. The newgame+ is weird, though. You pretty much only play half the game.
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May 5, 2010 17:10
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