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hammeredspace posted:I played this game for an hour and all I did was press square to kill gold people and sheep. There was a boss and all of a sudden I could use magic again which wasn't nearly effective as just mashin' that there square button so then after that I had to run to some village somewhere and more golden people kept appearing and then five different tutorials about crafting poo poo popped up and then uuuugggghhhhhhhh The gameplay never really gets better, no. Some of the later boss fights are a little more fun, but a lot of the game is illusion based on the characters and setting. It's easier to ignore how repetitive and dull the gameplay is when you're in an interesting situation. There are some really impressive moments, but they're bookended by a lot of really dull moments. If the illusion doesn't work for you, you lose a lot. I would say the bosses are the high point of the game, but not all of them. The OP is basically exaggerating on an extended scale and I think a lot of people are letting their appeal for the storyline and characters overwhelm their problems with the gameplay. You should just be pretty glad you're still not trying to get all achievements. With that said, it's not really DMC. It's more like an extremely budget Zelda. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:27 on May 3, 2010 |
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May 3, 2010 01:21
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AuroMarshmallow posted:I haven't been able to find any info on this one way or another, but are Kaine and No. 7 playable at all, do they help you in combat, or are they basically just useless outside of cutscenes/don't actually travel with you most of the time? They follow you around as basically invincible AI partners who occasionally attack or heal you most of the time.
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May 3, 2010 01:26
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Dominic White posted:I'm surprised at the number of people who are basically saying 'I bought this game without really knowing what it is, and I am confused and angry now'. It's a Cavia action-RPG a confirmed to be a followup to Drakengard. You don't go into something like that expecting technical mastery or perfectly tuned gameplay. You go in expecting style, atmosphere and that strange vibe that you only get from games that genuinely feel like an individuals vision, rather than something designed to a list of bullet-points. People in other threads (and even in this OP) have basically said "No, seriously, this game is really good! I know it's by Cavia but..." ect, ect, ect. People are buying this on recommendation that it is somehow not what they were expecting. UselessLurker posted:I'm also surprised that people seem to dislike the combat in this game but liked it in Darksiders, the latter of which I personally found to have a clunky mess of constant button mashing. This game at least has evil spammable magic attacks to spice things up with. I wasn't really fond of Darksiders either, so that doesn't really work for me. Nier is much better written the Darksiders at least.
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May 3, 2010 01:34
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InnercityGriot posted:Yeesh, does it really come off that way? Maybe I should re-write that section. I tried to mention that the gameplay was not terrible, I didn't think that would imply I thought the gameplay was amazing. I even expressed my utter indifference for the gardening and the fishing. Eh, I don't mean to be unfair, sorry. It just feels a bit glowing for my tastes, obviously others disagree. I'm a bitter person who looks on the negative side of things, so take that as you will. v  v
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May 3, 2010 01:43
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Megaflare posted:But it is good. Not amazing but I would still give it a good. I honestly can't find anything particularly good to say about any aspect of the gameplay, no. I don't think simple combat is bad inherently, but that doesn't mean it gets a pass just for being simple. The combat is simple and poorly balanced and designed, with either repetitive mash button gameplay and poorly implemented spells which are awkwardly designed and either broken or kinda useless. The platforming is a little awkward and looks really goofy. The sidequests are almost all really bad. The level design varies from genius to awful, sometimes with a few minutes of each other. "Good" and "bad" isn't a either/or scale. There are grey areas, and I think Nier falls really in that area. It isn't bad, but it isn't good either. The good aspects are held back by bad aspects, and while it's possible to get enjoyment out of the game (as I did), that doesn't mean it is something you can recommend to people without a boatload of caveats.
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May 3, 2010 03:46
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Oxxidation posted:Overall I think I'd rather have people's fascination with story and characters overwhelm their ability to judge gameplay rather than have good gameplay make them not care about lovely story and characters. I'm the opposite. I play video games for gameplay, because I find almost all their stories to be ridiculously stupid. If their characters and story are likable or interesting enough to keep my attention, great, but I'm not going to forgive bad/mediocre gameplay for what amounts to an okay fantasy story. Edit: I am, however, also willing to admit games that I enjoy are bad. Just because I liked something doesn't make it objectively well-designed. It's possible to enjoy a game that has broken mechanics or awful design if it grabs you some other way. Lord knows I loved, say, Robot Alchemic Drive, and that game was a disaster of design. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:08 on May 3, 2010 |
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May 3, 2010 03:58
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Megaflare posted:I don't disagree with all these points and I'm not going to spend a bunch of time arguing with you about what is mostly opinion (for instance, I've found all the spells useful). The only thing I was commenting on was wording like this Games are about illusions. We tend to overlook design decisions or flaws in a game because of how they craft things. This isn't a bad thing. It's a necessary part of design. I point it out in Nier in particular because that is what most of the game is. Using unique ideas and lampshading to cover up awkward gameplay. However, this means that it is a lot more dependent on the illusion then a game with solid underlying mechanics, because if the illusion fails in a sequence, it doesn't have much going for it. Nier is at its best when it is pulling the illusion master thing and not making you think about the mediocre mechanics. It falls apart during sequences like the opening sequence or mansion underground (tons of combat against mooks) or the sidequests where the game isn't making you look in another direction. This is what I meant by "I think a lot of people are letting their appeal for the storyline and characters overwhelm their problems with the gameplay." I don't mean people are not wholeheartedly enjoying it, but rather that it is the kind of game you need to be cautious about recommending because it isn't going to work for everyone. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:39 on May 3, 2010 |
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May 3, 2010 04:36
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Rascyc posted:You can say this about nearly every game released in the past four years. Or, switch some nouns around to get the same effect for other games. Eh. To clarify further: If someone was looking for a certain kind of game, I'd feel comfortable recommending things. Sure, if I recommended Batman: Arkham Asylum to someone looking for an action/adventure game, they might not like it, but there's at least a reasonable chance they would get enjoyment out of it, even if they don't enjoy Batman. With Nier, I don't think you can have that confidence unless it's a very personal recommendation, and even then I think it's possible for something to sour the game for a person a lot easier.
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May 3, 2010 15:14
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Xythar posted:I recommend games that I like. I have no way of knowing what other people like so I don't consider it my job to tailor my recommendations to people unless I know them very well. They can read the facts and decide for themselves. And you recommend Star Ocean 4! See what horror you've wrought, Xythar? 
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May 3, 2010 15:44
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Xythar posted:I have yet to see anyone make a convincing argument as to why SO4 is a bad game, every complaint I hear about it is just anime anime anime blah blah blah. You yourself said that story comes secondary to gameplay, and SO4 even provides you with convenient summaries when you skip all the cutscenes. Star Ocean 4's gameplay, like most Tri-Ace titles, gets ridiculously broken at higher levels to the point where combat involves spamming a few boring abilities over and over again. Unlike the better-made Tri-Ace games, however, I think the mechanics actually devolve as you get further into the game and start getting more broken abilities. Tri-Ace is about making broken games, yeah, but how they break really alters things. Der Shovel posted:I realize I'm at the beginning of the game still, but so far I'd agree with you. This is a game caveats were designed for. But still, there's something charming about it... Nah, don't misunderstand me. Nier is a bizarrely charming game. I did all four endings for my review, but also because I was honestly curious about 'em. It has a sense of humor about itself which a lot of games are really missing these days.
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May 3, 2010 23:42
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Rei_ posted:Can someone spoiler something I can look out for to avoid this? After you Get all the Sealed Verses.
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May 4, 2010 00:11
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Can I gently caress myself out of anything major with the point of no return, or just seeing closure in sidequests and stuff? I think just sidequests and trophies? I can't think of any weapons you can miss, but I may be misremembering.
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May 4, 2010 00:17
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I just honestly don't get how people don't notice the red map X pointing elsewhere. Maybe I'm weird. UselessLurker posted:Nier: Prepare to be Defeated by Fishing Characters even in part 1 flat out say that "the sun never sets.
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May 4, 2010 01:48
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Xythar posted:http://au.gamespot.com/ps3/action/nier/review.html 5.0 from Gamespot. What the heck? The reviewer likely did not get access to a FAQ or guide that told him everything he needed for the various endings, so the fetch quests are not "optional" then when you don't know the rewards you're going to get. Repeating "optional" doesn't really work when it's only optional if you don't care about extra endings or go into the game with prior outside knowledge. Beyond that, "optional" shouldn't be an excuse for bad or unfun. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:05 on May 4, 2010 |
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May 4, 2010 08:00
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Xythar posted:But I'm not playing with an FAQ either Certain quests are required to get the game's alternate endings. There is not a clear indication of A) Which quests these are B) How many of them there are You know that most of these sidequests are optional because you read it here and someone warned you.
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May 4, 2010 08:39
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There isn't even one available yet.
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Xythar posted:Which are also optional. I'll worry about those when the time comes, I certainly don't see them as impeding progress in the storyline right now. If you consider the complete storyline to be optional, then I guess I can't really argue with you, but I don't agree. Xythar posted:
The game tells you upon finishing it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:44 on May 4, 2010 |
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May 4, 2010 08:41
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Ddraig posted:Yeah the only thing the game really doesn't explain that well is the fishing. I didn't bother to read the tutorial so I sort of randomly attempted it until I read it over and it clicked. The game does not tell you specifically which quests get you weapons. That is the problem with the argument against "optional." Xythar posted:How are you meant to know there's a point of no return without outside help? If you're going to get enough help to know it exists, you'll probably also find out that none of the weapons are missable. Because it happens at the midpoint of the game. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:48 on May 4, 2010 |
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May 4, 2010 08:45
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Xythar posted:I'm glad we've now cleared this up to the point where the word "optional", previously defined as "something you are not required to do", now actually means "something you don't know whether you need to do or not without using an FAQ". So would you argue that, say, everything in Symphony of the Night's Reverse Castle, or Portrait of Ruin's post-Sisters fight is optional content?
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May 4, 2010 08:50
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Xythar posted:I haven't even played those, but if it's postgame content like the second quest in Zelda, or the postgame dungeons in Star Ocean anything, or Julius Mode in Dawn of Sorrow then yes I would. In SotN, you have to find two items to access a hidden area. In doing so, you find a pair of glasses that alter the "final boss," and allow the game to continue onwards into an entire second upside-down version of the castle where the plot continues and situations are resolved that are not resolved in the main plot. Would you say this is optional?
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May 4, 2010 08:54
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Xythar posted:Yeah probably, especially if it just reuses the whole castle like that. I'd have to play it to see. Well, that's your choice, but most people would strongly disagree with you. It is over half the game's content and features new bosses, items, enemies and content that is not present in the main castle, as well as an actual resolution to the plot. It's 'optional' insomuch as you will get the credits to roll if you don't find the item, but it isn't optional if you want access to most of the game's content or resolution to plot. To use an example you might agree with more: Think about Persona 4. Think about a series of choices required in Persona 4 that you have to get correct or else the game goes to its bad ending. Do you consider everything that comes after that optional? Xythar posted:Can we at least agree that the Gamespot review is deceptive in acting like the fetch quests are a compulsory part of the storyline? With quotes like this: But how is the reviewer supposed to know that they're not compulsory, especially when some are? That's the point. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:05 on May 4, 2010 |
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May 4, 2010 09:02
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Policenaut posted:I wouldn't consider the SotN Reverse Castle and NIER's C and D endings to have the same "weight" to them. The Reverse Castle basically doubles the amount of gameplay present in the game while C and D are basically just extended ending sequences and a single additional boss fight. Yeah, I'm not trying to imply that it adds a ton of gameplay. The reason I consider it important is because Nier is a game about the characters, and B/C/D are heavily about the characters. Nobody really plays Castlevania for plot, and so the extra castle is a major boon because it adds extra gameplay. For Nier, however, B/C/D are resolutions that don't exist in the A storyline.
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May 4, 2010 09:06
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Xythar posted:So are you saying that a reviewer's ignorance is a valid excuse for factually misleading information in their review? A game doing a poor job of explaining to people without a FAQ that there is extra content can easily be the fault of the game. I love Persona 4, but there are people who had to use a FAQ to get past the first set of questions, let alone to figure out that there was another ending after beating the second seemingly final boss. I like Persona 4 but that's a real problem and good reviews called it on that. I also seem to recall the paper I got from Atlus when reviewing Persona 4 specifically mentioned the ending thing. Nier has a different problem: You know exactly what to do, but not what sidequests are totally optional and which are "kinda optional." Without a FAQ, your only option is to do every bit of content until you stumble upon the correct ones. This is a serious problem because there are 60-odd sidequests in the game and 4 of those are necessary. That is bad odds in your favor for random guessing, even if you remove the ones that are locked out. You'll get it eventually, but it will likely involved a lot of random grinding and unenjoyable sidequests. With Persona 4, the problem is "Okay, I did something wrong? How do I fix that?" This is annoying, but less frustrating because there is a coherent goal. With Nier, the question is "Okay, which of these seemingly identical sidequests gets me the item I need or unlocks a sidequest that gets me the item I need?" There's no real goal other then "do sidequests until you stumble onto the right option." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 10:09 on May 4, 2010 |
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May 4, 2010 10:06
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Ddraig posted:Especially as they're really not that different from a few other games. The problem isn't the mechanics, it is the placement of the beach. People, for whatever reason, don't notice the X and so they assume when the Fisherman says "go to the beach," he means the one next to him. The way the Nier fishing mechanics work is that this fucks you heavily, because you're facing Fish above your 'fishing level' who are a pain to catch/may automatically escape, and even if you succeed, it doesn't get you the Fish you need. I agree that players are somewhat at fault for not looking at their map, but it was really goofy design to say "go to the beach" and actually mean "go to the beach on the other side of the map, not the one directly next to me."
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May 4, 2010 10:15
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Xythar posted:They'll add him as DLC. They way they handled the father/daughter relationship was really cute. I seriously can't imagine it working as well for brother/sister like they do in Replicant. I'm really glad we got this version, it holds a lot more weight. It also made the occasional sequences where the diary entries are replaced by subject reports a lot creepier. Exmond posted:So umm, why dont we go check out your responses in teh Resonance of Fate thread where you bravely defend the reviewer from all attacks. Sure, whatever works for you pal. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:37 on May 4, 2010 |
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May 4, 2010 11:35
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that the way you save your game is by writing letters to your sick daughter about all the places you visit.
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Policenaut posted:Gentlemen! BEHOLD! NIER DLC! Really can't see myself buying DLC after the D ending. Kinda wonder if they shot themselves in the foot with that.
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May 7, 2010 20:23
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Man. I kind of am curious about the DLC plot stuff, but not curious enough to play through the game again to get to the point where I can.Any chance you'd mind summarizing it, Policenaut?
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:09 on May 12, 2010 |
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May 12, 2010 08:06
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Thanks, I appreciate it.
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May 12, 2010 09:50
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I wonder what they'll chose to demo. I hope to god they're not stupid enough to make the opening sequence a demo.
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May 15, 2010 00:49
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Ddraig posted:I figured that the whole "Kaine is a hermaphrodite" thing was just Kotaku-style misrepresentation of the idea of her being possessed. I guess they somehow think that having a male spirit possess a female body is somehow equivalent of her being a dude. No, there's an indication in the game that it wasn't. Kaine mentions something about her body being "strange" even before the Shade thing happens. She calls her body 'mutant' Edit: Wired also has an interview on the subject http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/03/nier-interview/ ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:25 on May 16, 2010 |
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May 16, 2010 19:20
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Garin posted:I just got the game on Gamefly and I'm really liking a lot of the audio. Not really. You get a couple of defensive spells which are a tiny bit interesting, but that's about the closest. You will get different weapon types (2H and Spear) a bit later.
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May 23, 2010 06:10
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Friendly Factory posted:I passed on this game initially because of the universal negativity directed at it from reviewers. I'm not too crazy for action JRPGs, so that didn't help matters. However, I recently read the Destructoid review for Nier, which said that although the game was terrible, the story was one of the best this generation. Is the story really good enough to suffer through the fishing and ladder climbing? I might pick it up if it is. The gameplay is dull. It is just extremely dull. It is technically functional, but isn't even funny-bad like some games. Just dull as dishwater. It does basically nothing interesting. It doesn't technically do anything wrong either, except for being simple and repetitive, but that can grind worse then bad-but-interesting gameplay. The fishing minigame is basically optional and most people's trouble is that it is poorly placed, not the actual mechanics. The setpieces, however, are pretty cool, and they help you overlook the dull gameplay. The storyline is actually really interesting, and while I think it's a bit overhyped now, it's still certainly worth playing through and has a lot going for it. It's pretty clever and extremely well translated. It's probably the best-translated game of this generation by far, and up there there for one of the flat-out best translation jobs of all time. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Jun 1, 2010 |
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Jun 1, 2010 08:07
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Friendly Factory posted:What is it in particular that makes you think it's a really good translation? Cultural references changed for our audience? The general translation is written in such a way so that is sounds very natural. It sounds like an American-written game, not a Japanese-To-English translation. Sentence structure, general usage of words and phrases, and various other things are translated properly. It avoids over-literal translations and alters and modifies things to keep the same tone while being accurate to the basic idea. In particular, Kaine is a very big change (since she's ridiculously foulmouthed) but in a way that carries the correct context.
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Jun 1, 2010 08:33
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Policenaut posted:Okay, so Nier's a sexually abused former prostitute, Kaine doesn't need any explanation, and Emil's apparently a transgendered closet case? Okay, what's Grimoire Weiss' sexual deviancy? Is he secretly into fish or something? He's a book.
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Jun 1, 2010 09:41
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Brackhar posted:Huh. Maybe I should play Drakengard. You really shouldn't. Man, looking at scanned pages from Grimoire Nier, the director of this game is a total freak. I mean, I know that's not a surprising thing, but he's a total loving freak. All the stuff about the ending is super-depressing too, which is appropriate. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jun 4, 2010 |
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Jun 4, 2010 19:16
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cant wait to post!! posted:Hey y'all I'm right at the beginning of the game in the snowy area. I've been killing poo poo for like 20mins. Opening tutorial section. Yep.
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Jun 8, 2010 03:07
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Xythar posted:I only did it because of the possibility of future DLC I wouldn't hold my breath on that at this point.
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Jul 13, 2010 10:03
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Mahuum Aqoha posted:From the way end of that page: They'll work together to kill all the aliens so EVERYONE is extinct, not just humanity.
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Jul 16, 2010 00:05
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Fuzz posted:Just got Ending B... Jesus. The changed credits music is also like... the most depressing song in the game. I actually teared up a bit, I'm not gonna lie. One thing I don't get is This still doesn't really tell us Kaine's story... as in, what happens to her after all this. There was a lot of frontloaded backstory for her, but no change in the ending, as far as her role is concerned... or do I need to see Endings C and D now? I was thinking I might just Youtube them, since I hear the rest is the same as playthrough B, right? Endings C and D are based around Kaine yes.
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Oct 12, 2010 06:00
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They'd probably go prequel, not sequel.
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Nov 4, 2010 20:52
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Azure_Horizon posted:Drakengard 2 is actually a good game. Shocking, I know. You may be the only person on Earth to actually think that.
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Nov 5, 2010 00:22
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