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Morning Bell
Feb 23, 2006
Lift More. Eat More.

The Mystery Date posted:

https://soundcloud.com/someguybrian/mack-the-knife

If anybody would like to see what a difference 4 years and some effort can make, check out the first reply to this thread on page 1.

Holy poo poo, sounds grand, and like a completely different singer. What was your practice regime like over the four years?

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The Mystery Date
Aug 2, 2005
STRAGHT FOOL IN A GAY POOL (MUPPETS ROCK)

Morning Bell posted:

Holy poo poo, sounds grand, and like a completely different singer. What was your practice regime like over the four years?

Thanks! I never really had anything formal laid out. I find the most important thing is to keep mindful whenever I sing, recognize mistakes, and do the best I can to correct them and improve. I'm sure things would have gone a lot faster if I'd had some sort of instruction, but it's rewarding to accumulate knowledge on my own and figure things out.

Special thanks to Triple Tech, whose advice nudged me in the right direction when I didn't know what the hell I was doing.

Greggster
Aug 14, 2010


The Mystery Date posted:

Thanks! I never really had anything formal laid out. I find the most important thing is to keep mindful whenever I sing, recognize mistakes, and do the best I can to correct them and improve. I'm sure things would have gone a lot faster if I'd had some sort of instruction, but it's rewarding to accumulate knowledge on my own and figure things out.

Special thanks to Triple Tech, whose advice nudged me in the right direction when I didn't know what the hell I was doing.

I'd love to learn what you've learned in these four years, could you perhaps take time to write out your own training regime, and all that stuff?

The Mystery Date
Aug 2, 2005
STRAGHT FOOL IN A GAY POOL (MUPPETS ROCK)

I hate to disappoint, but all I've really done is sing a lot and focus on improving. It certainly helped to know another instrument first so I had a decent sense of pitch, and recording myself has been important to actually get an idea of what I sound like, no matter how miserable it was at first. If you're looking for pointers, I'm probably not the one to give them, but you can check out Triple Tech's advice to me in the first few pages to get some basic fundamentals (I'd just be reiterating his points and he did an excellent job of articulating them). The key is practice, practice, practice (i.e. singing a lot). I didn't sing a ton of scales or anything, mostly just various songs at home, in the car, in the shower, etc. Realize that each vocal cord is associated with around 6 different muscles (some are shared between them), which need to be harnessed and mastered to have control, so just knowing isn't going to cut it; it takes doing over and over and over.

Sperglord Firecock
Feb 20, 2011

THE RUNES NEVER SPOKE OF THIS

Okay no seriously, I need some serious help.

Back a few years, I was the lead singer of an 80's hair metal cover band, and plus, a lead in some community musical production, no biggie, etc.

Back then, I could sing stuff like Journey, the rest of that, without much of a problem, but since joining the Navy and the rest of that, I can still SING the stuff, it's just that my vocal chords wear out and start hurting WAY faster than they used to do, and now, I rarely even do any high-flying songs like, say, Bon Jovi (AKA: The songs that I really love doing) without my voice cracking, barely being able to hit the notes, and my internal "GODDAMMIT YOU ARE poo poo GO INTO A CORNER" instincts starting up.

I'd really like to get back into hitting those awesome high notes and such, and I don't know if it's just lack of practice that's making my voice die or if I am doing something wrong with preparation or somesuch.

Advice?

Edit: Although on the upside, I can apparently do a loving amazing job at Bruce Springsteen's Born To Run. Protip: It requires you to have both a whole shitload of energy and to have that edge of desperation in your voice.

Sperglord Firecock fucked around with this message at Jul 13, 2014 around 05:41

Hoshi
Jan 20, 2013


Sperglord Firecock posted:

Okay no seriously, I need some serious help.

Back a few years, I was the lead singer of an 80's hair metal cover band, and plus, a lead in some community musical production, no biggie, etc.

Back then, I could sing stuff like Journey, the rest of that, without much of a problem, but since joining the Navy and the rest of that, I can still SING the stuff, it's just that my vocal chords wear out and start hurting WAY faster than they used to do, and now, I rarely even do any high-flying songs like, say, Bon Jovi (AKA: The songs that I really love doing) without my voice cracking, barely being able to hit the notes, and my internal "GODDAMMIT YOU ARE poo poo GO INTO A CORNER" instincts starting up.

I'd really like to get back into hitting those awesome high notes and such, and I don't know if it's just lack of practice that's making my voice die or if I am doing something wrong with preparation or somesuch.

Advice?

Cracking is good as long as there's something after the crack; cracking into nothing is not healthy. It's probably just an out of practice thing. If it's been a few months, let alone years, it'll take time to get back.

Hulk Krogan
Mar 25, 2005



Boz0r posted:

Are there any baritone hair metal/80ies metal singers besides David Coverdale?

Not quite metal but Ian Astbury from the Cult, maybe? I guess Paul Di'anno would qualify as a baritone too.

Sperglord Firecock
Feb 20, 2011

THE RUNES NEVER SPOKE OF THIS

Well, ironically, I wrote a song in the style of hair metal/80's metal during one of our deployments called Flesh Torpedo, that's probably better sung in a Baritone.

90% of it is just straight sexual innuendo.

It compares fat chicks to carriers and skinny chicks to frigates.

Fooz
Sep 26, 2010




I'm just selfishly barging into this thread so:

Hi, I hate hearing my voice so I rarely sing but I have to bite the bullet every now and then and try it out.

https://soundcloud.com/foozmuz/chandelier-vox-demo

Any pointers on how to be better? I have very small lungs so that's an issue.

Fooz
Sep 26, 2010




Hm well I can't seem to get anyone in the world to Give me feedback, so I guess I'm on my own. I can sort of tell what's wrong, a dull or deadened timbre quality in some parts, or just a nasal sound, but I'm not sure about how to improve it.

Fooz fucked around with this message at Jul 21, 2014 around 16:56

Sogol
Apr 11, 2013

Galileo's Finger

Fooz posted:

Hm well I can't seem to get anyone in the world to Give me feedback, so I guess I'm on my own. I can sort of tell what's wrong, a dull or deadened timbre quality in some parts, or just a nasal sound, but I'm not sure about how to improve it.

Heh. I liked it and liked some of the things you did in the mix. Small lungs isn't really a thing for the most part. Breath on the other hand is. Your voice sounds very aspirated to me. That is, I think you are using more air to produce the sound than is needed. Part of this has to do with how your vocal chords come together at the beginning of sound and then how you manage contact.

There is nothing wrong with your sound. Learning to manage your breath (breathing exercises, diaphragm control, etc.) and learning to manage the way your chords come together to produce sound will handle things about being able to sustain notes without dropping off, crescendo during a note or phrase, etc.

There may be stuff about musicianship as well. You make some choices where you seem to gliss or slide from one note to another. Do you know you are doing that? Is it an intentional choice? If so why do make it when you make it? For instance, if you wanted some connection there a little run might do. You also don't have to hold out everything for what you think is full value. Some silence in the song gives you a chance to breath, but also give your listener a chance to breath.

The Mack the Knife guy above seems interesting to me. His sound production is very intentional it seems. He is going for a certain sound and then has paid attention to that over several years. When asked how he was learning he basically said 'by paying attention to what I am doing'.

You could think about singing as the physical sound production, musicianship and storytelling/expression. All three are integrated and not really separate, but you can work on them to some extent as if they were.

Oh. And you are on your own.

Fooz
Sep 26, 2010




Thanks, that is all very valuable. I'm going to work on breathing exercises for sure. The vocal chord stuff will be a little tougher. About the small lungs, I was born with a disorder of the ribcage, so my chest is pretty small for someone of my size. I defiantly have not put focus into making good musical choices, since I'm just focusing on the sound and trying to get an ok take in that regard. I know the glissando always sounds much crummier than I think it will.

I read somewhere (maybe here) that it's better to sing by feel than self-monitoring, and I think I've been relying way to much on self-monitoring as I sing, which is holding my breath control back.

Mradyfist
Sep 3, 2007

People that can eat people are the luckiest people in the world


Fooz posted:

Hm well I can't seem to get anyone in the world to Give me feedback, so I guess I'm on my own. I can sort of tell what's wrong, a dull or deadened timbre quality in some parts, or just a nasal sound, but I'm not sure about how to improve it.

Pitch is pretty good, and I can see where you're going when you slide up to a note, but practice it so it's absolutely perfect or it will sound like a fuckup. Also, it sounds like you've got a case of "singing accent" going on - it sounds like you're singing as if you're emulating someone singing. You're singing about a silly subject, but that doesn't mean you should make a silly voice while you do it. Treat swinging from the chandelier as a serious, life-or-death situation, even if your intention is to be funny there's not a lot of humor in singing lyrics in a funny voice.

The Biggest Jerk
Nov 25, 2012


Grew up singing Disney songs, but would love to actually improve it. How would you guys recommend I start to improve and identify the flaws in my singing in addition to recording myself? I've never had coaching and can't find one (travel around too much), so it's hard for me to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

gandlethorpe
Aug 16, 2008



So I have this problem where I have a pretty powerful falsetto (I think) range, but can't access it practically because getting there from lower notes is extremely rough.

I know this song is completely out of my league, but it illustrates it nicely where my voice is the weakest (around the E-G range). There's a noticeable break on "you're so sincere", and I go a bit flat before the chorus.

https://soundcloud.com/gandlethorpe/open-arms

And here's just the chorus, which is actually a little easier, since I can stay in that high register 90% of the time.

https://soundcloud.com/gandlethorpe...rms-just-chorus

Firstly, does my higher register even sound decent, at least where it's solid, or is it a waste of time to try to sing that way? Secondly, if not a waste, what are my problems and how do I fix them?

Newt King
Apr 14, 2008

Her milk is my shit
My shit is her milk


General question: The type of music I want to sing when I develop better technique is on the heavy side, I'll use Tool as an example because the vocals are amazing. My issue is, I feel like I can stay on pitch relatively well in the lower parts, but I find the "yelling" or "screaming" parts are a lot more difficult for me. I run out of breath faster, notes I might be able to hit with softer singing become much more difficult, etc. I know it would probably have been more helpful if I posted example singing, but my question is more general. What kind of vocal techniques are good for that kind of heavy singing that I could practice without destroying my vocal cords? Part of it could be unconsciously trying to imitate the singer's voice, but I feel like even after correcting that I would still find the more "aggressive" vocals hard to pull off. Any kind of nudge in the right direction would be awesome. I've heard vocal fry mentioned before, but am not sure how to fit it into this context.

RandomCheese
Oct 31, 2005
Head Cancer.

Newt King posted:

General question: The type of music I want to sing when I develop better technique is on the heavy side, I'll use Tool as an example because the vocals are amazing. My issue is, I feel like I can stay on pitch relatively well in the lower parts, but I find the "yelling" or "screaming" parts are a lot more difficult for me. I run out of breath faster, notes I might be able to hit with softer singing become much more difficult, etc. I know it would probably have been more helpful if I posted example singing, but my question is more general. What kind of vocal techniques are good for that kind of heavy singing that I could practice without destroying my vocal cords? Part of it could be unconsciously trying to imitate the singer's voice, but I feel like even after correcting that I would still find the more "aggressive" vocals hard to pull off. Any kind of nudge in the right direction would be awesome. I've heard vocal fry mentioned before, but am not sure how to fit it into this context.

Check out youtube tutorials on fry screams and false chords, watch a few different vids on each because everyone has their own tips and opinions but they'll all convey a few throat exercises that you can do to prepare it for screaming. It's all down to learning how to make a few types of sound with your throat comfortably and then gradually making them louder, the exercises are pretty low volume so you can do them anywhere, some sound like an elongated throat clearing. Also look into diaphragm breathing if you aren't already to get more air in your lungs, but you'll learn to regulate your breath when practicing things like compression fry.

Zen Of Screaming has a lot of great exercises and warmups in the DVDs and is probably the best option for learning but youtube still has a lot of good info.

Newt King
Apr 14, 2008

Her milk is my shit
My shit is her milk


Thanks man, I'll definitely give it a look.

The Mystery Date
Aug 2, 2005
STRAGHT FOOL IN A GAY POOL (MUPPETS ROCK)

gandlethorpe posted:

So I have this problem where I have a pretty powerful falsetto (I think) range, but can't access it practically because getting there from lower notes is extremely rough.

I know this song is completely out of my league, but it illustrates it nicely where my voice is the weakest (around the E-G range). There's a noticeable break on "you're so sincere", and I go a bit flat before the chorus.

https://soundcloud.com/gandlethorpe/open-arms

And here's just the chorus, which is actually a little easier, since I can stay in that high register 90% of the time.

https://soundcloud.com/gandlethorpe...rms-just-chorus

Firstly, does my higher register even sound decent, at least where it's solid, or is it a waste of time to try to sing that way? Secondly, if not a waste, what are my problems and how do I fix them?

You seem to hit notes better in your falsetto, which is interesting. However, you're still missing several. I think you have a really big problem with waaaaaaaay to much strain when you are singing. The reason I'm so blunt about this is it sounds like you're getting ready to do some real damage, evidenced by a bunch of unwanted grating and gravel like at 0:12 in the second track and 0:16, 0:36, 1:02, 1:12 in the first. I think that your focus on falsetto is making you strain in your regular voice in anticipation of the high notes, so try to focus on relaxing and letting your throat stay open when you sing. This is not entirely intuitive, but the best way I can describe the feeling is that it's somewhere between yawning and speaking.

The answer to your first question is that, yes, it is somewhat of a waste of time. Falsetto is a shiny gem you pull out of your pocket every once in a while so people can say "Ooo, that's nice". If you have it out all the time, it becomes mundane and boring. It's a really nice trick and can really make a performance interesting, but if you have no foundation in a normal register it doesn't really have a place to stand on to provide contrast. I recommend practicing mostly in your non-falsetto range and focusing on relaxing and hitting notes. Reeeeeally concentrate on hitting those notes, and if you miss, try the section again.

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009


What the gently caress is with Guinness claiming a world record of the lowest "note" sung at 0.2 Hz? That's not a pitch, it's a vibrato, and a slow one at that.

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

sets off a "weirdly specific fetish artwork" vibe

I used to play in a band where the singer was a real big fan of Tool and his vocals always sucked because he was big into that thing where Maynard Keenan enounciates ev-er-ey-syl-ab-le and it meant he never developed any real power because he was just jerking out every syllable instead of developing decent breath control.

Anyway, that was barely related to the rest of this post I just wanted to complain.

Toolguy isnt doing fry screams, he's doing a kind of aggressive belt, you wont be able to get there without volume.

People hammer on about diaphram control but it cant be emphesized enough, its ALL about diaphram control, here is the thing: yelling/belting does not work or feel like normal singing at all.

With normal singing you have a resonance in your head, then you open your mouth = a note.

With belting what often happens for the beginner is you try to add power+growl to the sung note, your voice goes "oh gently caress this" and closes up to protect itself = you get a lovely yelp.

(Or you just murder your vocal chords) youre adding tension on top of tension and your throat hates you for it, its closing up in anticipation.

The trick is to remove the "sing" part from the equation. Its not a sung note, its a pitched yell. And its pitched through diaphram control, not through your throat. So your throat can say "ok fine, if you're not leaning on me for control I guess I can loosen up a bit and growl for you"

My old singing teacher had me doing these swooping "hey hey HEYEYEAHHS" coming in and out of growl that sounded like James hetfield and poo poo, the point was to kind of deprogram away from "singing" using the throat and more to a kind of yelling which is more wild and uncontrolled, with accurate pitching coming later.

Anyway thats a lot of words to say "If you want to do it seriously get a vocal coach because its unconventional and you might hurt your voice"

massive spider fucked around with this message at Aug 18, 2014 around 08:11

Newt King
Apr 14, 2008

Her milk is my shit
My shit is her milk


Thanks for the info, that bit about how people try to scream in the same way as regular singing and end up having their throat bail on them sounds like one of the unconscious bad habits I've developed. Singing along in a car is clearly not the best way to develop technique haha. One of the reasons I'm planning to pick up a mic for practice.

PrivRyan
Aug 3, 2012

This rock smells like stone.


Hey goons. Just checkin in to see what you guys are doin.

Haven't been singing lately, but wanted to do this choir with some rood doods in another forum. Problem is is that the language is foreign and thanks to my pure english upbringing, I am having the hardest time doing this.

Hawkgirl
Jun 20, 2003

Jesus Died for Your Songs

I may get to do some caroling gigs this year. I am unreasonably excited to walk around and sing in a giant heavy Victorian costume.

khysanth
Jun 9, 2009

Still love you, Homar


I quit my weekend gig in lieu of having weekends where my wife and I can actually do something. I miss the music and I miss the paychecks, but overall the quality of life changes have been for the best.

Colonel J
Jan 3, 2008


I signed up for my school's choir for this semester! To everyone out there who feels they'll never be able to sing, I was you before and look where I am now, I practiced my butt off and now feel sort of confident enough to sing in front of other people

CowOnCrack
Sep 26, 2004

Cocaine bitches.

Colonel J posted:

I signed up for my school's choir for this semester! To everyone out there who feels they'll never be able to sing, I was you before and look where I am now, I practiced my butt off and now feel sort of confident enough to sing in front of other people

Just be careful with choirs - they are notorious for teaching you awful technique. Consider a voice class or a few lessons to get your technique starting on the right foot.

I joined an advanced choir after never singing before in my life, and I skated by on my general musical abilities and ability to figure things out. However, being a Baritony sort, they stuck me in the Bass section to pound those low notes and as a result my speaking / singing voice has hit the gravel. I've also developed laryngitis in part from improper singing. It's only been 4 semesters, there's no irreversible damage, and now that I have an excellent voice class textbook and instructor (and some good exercises) I'll be OK. It turns out I have a pretty decent voice and a great range, but I need to learn me some technique if I'm going to drive it and not let it drive me. Just a warning to you!

CowOnCrack
Sep 26, 2004

Cocaine bitches.

Hawkgirl posted:

I may get to do some caroling gigs this year. I am unreasonably excited to walk around and sing in a giant heavy Victorian costume.

Oh yeah? Me too. Which company?

Hawkgirl
Jun 20, 2003

Jesus Died for Your Songs

CowOnCrack posted:

Oh yeah? Me too. Which company?

The Other Reindeer.

Colonel J
Jan 3, 2008


CowOnCrack posted:

Just be careful with choirs - they are notorious for teaching you awful technique. Consider a voice class or a few lessons to get your technique starting on the right foot.

I joined an advanced choir after never singing before in my life, and I skated by on my general musical abilities and ability to figure things out. However, being a Baritony sort, they stuck me in the Bass section to pound those low notes and as a result my speaking / singing voice has hit the gravel. I've also developed laryngitis in part from improper singing. It's only been 4 semesters, there's no irreversible damage, and now that I have an excellent voice class textbook and instructor (and some good exercises) I'll be OK. It turns out I have a pretty decent voice and a great range, but I need to learn me some technique if I'm going to drive it and not let it drive me. Just a warning to you!

Wow that sounds like an awful experience. This is a once-a-week thing with mostly nice old people who don't practice much, so I don't really have to strain myself at all, it's just for fun really. So far I like it quite a bit though!

CowOnCrack
Sep 26, 2004

Cocaine bitches.

It's actually been the most wonderful experience of my life, just not the best thing in the universe for my voice.

Just be aware that choir technique in a way stands in opposition to proper singing technique.

In choir, you are supposed to blend your voice with your section, but healthy vocal technique is singing in the voice that is natural to you.

In choir, you are supposed to straighten your tone and vibrato, but a vibrato of around 6-8 pulses per second is natural and healthy.

In choir, you are assigned to wherever you are needed, not necessarily where your true tessitura lies. Until your voice is fully developed and controlled by proper solo technique, your voice class is unknown and in one audition a director can't determine if you are a Bass, Bass-Baritone, Baritone, Tenor, etc.

In choir, you are often asked or demanded to do things that are beyond the reasonable capabilities of a singer or just things that go against what you should be doing because they are required. A singer should not sing for more than two hours a day, and yet we have been asked in our group to rehearse for two hours and perform for two. There are notes that are written very low in some pieces and require and special extended technique called vocal fry (if true Basses are unavailable) which, if done properly and in extreme moderation, is OK, but is demanded in every sing through of these pieces. The director may ask you to darken or otherwise artificially alter your tone, and unless you know how to do this in the safest way possible, it's easy to go wrong.

The thing is though, if you are aware of all of these things, you have nothing to fear from a choir. Just stick to proper technique and you can handle all of the demands of a choir because the human voice is very flexible and can adapt itself to any situation once you are in full control of it. In fact, that's exactly what the human voice is all about - different styles, different approaches, and diversity. But all of these fall around a nucleus of proper technique and the further away you move from that radius the more careful and thoughtful you have to be. In order to gain comfortable control of your voice, you will need solo repertoire and lessons or a voice class. You want to be driving your voice, not the other way around (or have the director drive your voice).

Fenrir
Apr 26, 2005

We will fight them to the last. And we will defend those that cannot defend themselves. Today we fight, brothers and sisters. Today we stand up and never, ever relent. Brothers and sisters -- prepare yourselves. Today we go to WAR!


CowOnCrack posted:

In choir, you are supposed to straighten your tone and vibrato, but a vibrato of around 6-8 pulses per second is natural and healthy.

Tell me about it. Six years of church choir demolished my vibrato by the time I was 15 and I never got it back.

Hoshi
Jan 20, 2013


Whether I like a choir has a lot to do with whether I like the director. My college's big general choir director does all this stupid time wasting joking around stuff which would be fine if he were decent when he's not wasting time, but he's pretty bad otherwise. However, the small ensemble director is very good and experienced, and while he's a little crazy (we've memorized 60 songs this semester in preparation for a big event in 3 weeks) at least he's dialed it down over the years from throwing books at students heads to saying he'll "crucify them and tap dance in their blood".

I hope the big choir director gets fed up with me singing comfortably and allows me use the small choir as ensemble credits for my degree.

Progression Please
Oct 29, 2010


I would like to know if my voice pleases anyone.

My first (lovely practice) recording, have had no training. I know I have a real nasal sound and want to mitigate that, I'm gonna look into teachers or some such. Trying to find a tone that suits my nasality and build confidence to keep listeners interest.

Maybe reverb will help : )

edit: https://soundcloud.com/jon-killinger/practice

RandomCheese
Oct 31, 2005
Head Cancer.

Nothing wrong with your voice, doesn't sound specifically nasally to me. Decently recorded and mixed, your songs will come out alright.

Progression Please
Oct 29, 2010


RandomCheese posted:

Nothing wrong with your voice, doesn't sound specifically nasally to me. Decently recorded and mixed, your songs will come out alright.

Thank you! this was just guitar + vocals recorded at once into audacity, no mixing. I'm impressed with this yeti microphone thing though.

chinchilla
May 1, 2010

In their native habitat, chinchillas live in burrows or crevices in rocks. They are agile jumpers and can jump up to 6 ft (1.8 m).


Sooo... just out of curiosity... what's something a vocalist would be very happy to get for christmas?

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cebrail
May 9, 2014

Romanes eunt domus!

Lessons, a microphone/interface, handheld recorder, sheet music / songbooks, depends a lot on what kind of singing and budget.

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