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Draile posted:The LSAT is an extremely learnable test. You can go from average to 90th percentile with enough effort. I went from 157 on my diagnostic to 166 on my first official to 173 on my second official. It took the entire Powerscore Logic Games bible (and a dozen practice tests) to get me there but it's absolutely doable.
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May 27, 2010 19:55
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if i'm going to buy one supplement for evidence, which should it be?
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May 27, 2010 19:57
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SWATJester posted:Jesus I had a 2.8 and a mid 160's and I got into a T1. Haha I'm like you and I got into a T1 with a substantial scholarship that keeps pace with tuition increases. Seriously, if this chick is dumb enough to go for La Verne (really, my mom got a job teaching a class at La Verne's law school when she was fresh out of Loyola Los Angeles) she needs to reevaluate her life choices. If she has a plus-3.0 GPA from Berkeley, she should reapply next cycle, early, and see where she gets in. DO NOT GO TO LA VERNE. DO NOT GO TO WESTERN STATE (I took the LSAT there, it's barely accredited - seriously, it just got off ABA probation like last year)
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May 27, 2010 20:16
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Draile posted:The LSAT is an extremely learnable test. You can go from average to 90th percentile with enough effort. But the word is effort. Sitting passive in Kaplan won't do it. You have to study the structure of the exam and take lots of practice tests and review them once you're through. Your position is too strong. The LSAT is learnable, certainly, but not extremely learnable. It is very difficult to improve significantly on the LSAT. You're right, the student must really study hard and can't just passively take a Kaplan course and treat it like an undergrad lecture or something. I have rarely seen students who start in the mid 150's get up to 170, more often I see them edge up into the low 160s.
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May 27, 2010 20:34
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I'm sticking with the "girlfriend is retarded" angle.
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May 27, 2010 21:50
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J Miracle posted:Ainsley don't take this the wrong way but you are a grim and terrible portent of my own bleak future One day I think I'm going to be drinking whiskey and playing xbox at 5 am (again) and i'm going to be visited by a spirit and a version of me from an alternate universe, and the spirit is going to say "this is what your life would be like if you'd gone to law school" and the other me will say "no! take me back, it's awful!"
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May 27, 2010 21:51
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Incredulous Red posted:Haha I'm like you and I got into a T1 with a substantial scholarship that keeps pace with tuition increases. I think I've already posted this, but the dumbest thing people do is get bent on going to law school RIGHT NOW and choose a school that is substantially lower in rank than what they want. Nothing prevents you from reapplying and if you feel like you could have studied harder for the LSAT or not rushed your application essays or whatever else you did a substandard job on, there's nothing keeping you from giving it another go. Law school rank matters too much to just let your future prospects get constrained.
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May 27, 2010 22:08
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TyChan posted:I think I've already posted this, but the dumbest thing people do is get bent on going to law school RIGHT NOW and choose a school that is substantially lower in rank than what they want. Nothing prevents you from reapplying and if you feel like you could have studied harder for the LSAT or not rushed your application essays or whatever else you did a substandard job on, there's nothing keeping you from giving it another go. Law school rank matters too much to just let your future prospects get constrained. Not just this, but right now is maybe one of the best times in recent history to put off going to law school. The job market is utter poo poo right now, and even if it "recovers," (whatever that means) you'll still be competing with the hordes of under- and unemployed guys from the classes who graduated ahead of you, many of whom will have better credentials than you, especially if you go to a poorly-respected school. If you can't get into at least a top 50 school right now, you'd be an idiot not to put your plans on hold until your prospects improve. There's never been a better time to not go to law school.
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May 27, 2010 22:12
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Everyone should stop trying to go to law school and start doing something useful!
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May 27, 2010 22:23
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The Warp posted:sigmachiev: You will never known what grades you will possibly receive. Take my Spring semester of my 2L year as an example. I put the same amount of effort into every class (ie: jack poo poo until two days before the final) and I came out with two 4 credit A's, a 2 credit B+, and a 3 credit C+. The 3 credit course was one of those Law and International Something where the professor was not impressed with my lack of socratic participation. You are not graded on what you know for the most part.
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May 27, 2010 22:37
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TyChan posted:I think I've already posted this, but the dumbest thing people do is get bent on going to law school RIGHT NOW and choose a school that is substantially lower in rank than what they want. Almost did this (offered full ride at Cardozo); so loving happy and grateful every day that I didn't.
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May 27, 2010 23:04
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CaptainScraps posted:I just had to orient myself. So we're all agreed she should stop and think before making a great leap forward?
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May 27, 2010 23:12
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I stayed up into the obscure hours of the night trying to explain these things to her, sometimes gently, and then sometimes reading aloud from some of the more pointed comments. The best sure thing that I managed to do was eliminate LaVerne from her choices, but I understand the resounding truth that that's not nearly enough. But she's becoming more and more pliable, I think I might be able to handle this. It's horribly ironic, she had planned to tour Western today with her mom and that's where she's at. I suspect that you're all right about the LSAT scores, she must not have done very well, must not have understood well enough just how pivotal it was, or maybe she's just embarrassed because she won't tell me. She's just kind of panicking right now. Should I really listen to my boyfriend because the internet told him certain things? I've told her that this is stuff she probably should have known already. She's telling me she's not sure what the gently caress she's going to do for a year, but at the same time she wonders if she'd even have enough time to study for the LSAT before it's time to reapply. Her last semester brought her up past a 3.5, and it wasn't accounted for the last time around, so that'll be good. It's hard to see where all this reluctance is being generated from. She was one of the few kids from her close knit city in LA to make it to Berkeley, and she's the brat of her family with a huge age gap between her older siblings and her. There's a lot riding on her and I doubt her benefactors really understand the decision she's making, and it'd take some straight talk to make them understand the strategy of waiting because she's afraid it might make her look lazy or incompetent. But that doesn't matter, saving face isn't worth throwing everything away. Thank you for the the continued advice, I'm keeping up very persistently with my chiding. Western State just got off of its ABA probation? I don't know what this means, she seems to think that this is normal, that most new schools take years to step away from provisional status. Can you tell me specifically why this is horrible? I believe you but I need accurate ammunition and I don't know a loving thing about Law or the compulsive and miserable professions that it necessitates.
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May 27, 2010 23:14
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New schools are a joke, when she sends her resume out and people see the name of the school she went to on it they will laugh for ten minutes then toss it out instead of just tossing it out. It's difficult to get across to people because for non-lawyers law school is seen as a prestigious thing. It's a point of pride for a parent to say "My daughter goes to law school". Once you're a lawyer you know what a farce it is, however interesting it may or may not have been. You end up with people who go to law school because it's such an honor and have no idea they're just throwing away money and happiness in most cases. The best strategy for you is to show how bad of an investment it is. The amount she forgoes by not working, the cost of loans (factoring in interest), and the dismal job prospects. Then explain the arbitrary nature of grading and the near-impossiblity of transferring to a good school from one of the shitholes she got admitted to. If that doesn't work prey on her ego and convince her that she's way too smart to waste herself at those schools, and get a job for a couple years that will make her resume look a lot better and give her a lot of time to study for and destroy the LSATs and get into the school she deserves (use this word) to go to. Hopefully after a couple years of making money she'll have just forgotten all about law school. Mattavist fucked around with this message at 23:26 on May 27, 2010 |
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May 27, 2010 23:20
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Alright transfer app to Minnesota is in, if i don't hear back from them before mid-June I'm applying to Wisconsin.
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May 27, 2010 23:21
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The Warp posted:I've heard of a school being put on probationary status in the past for schools having very low bar passage rates; i.e. not preparing their students adequately for the you-want-to-be-a-lawyer? pop quiz. If she's worried about the internet telling you/her these things about law school, why doesn't she go ask a few lawyers at a firm? Just send out a few short emails to fellow Berkley Alum who happen to be lawyers in California and ask them. 7StoryFall fucked around with this message at 23:31 on May 27, 2010 |
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May 27, 2010 23:28
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The Warp posted:I stayed up into the obscure hours of the night trying to explain these things to her, sometimes gently, and then sometimes reading aloud from some of the more pointed comments. The best sure thing that I managed to do was eliminate LaVerne from her choices, but I understand the resounding truth that that's not nearly enough. But she's becoming more and more pliable, I think I might be able to handle this. It's horribly ironic, she had planned to tour Western today with her mom and that's where she's at. Is there any way to contact recent grads of any of these schools? If they're anything like me they might have a few choice words to say about their decision to go to law school, perhaps she would listen to them
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May 27, 2010 23:31
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The Warp posted:I stayed up into the obscure hours of the night trying to explain these things to her, sometimes gently, and then sometimes reading aloud from some of the more pointed comments. The best sure thing that I managed to do was eliminate LaVerne from her choices, but I understand the resounding truth that that's not nearly enough. But she's becoming more and more pliable, I think I might be able to handle this. It's horribly ironic, she had planned to tour Western today with her mom and that's where she's at. It may be the internet but we still have lawyers and law students here so it's not like you're asking for advice from FYAD. Going to Western State is a bad decision. You go to law school to become a lawyer. An employed lawyer. Nobody is going to hire her from Western State. Why would they when there are roughly eight million lawyers from much better non-provisional schools? This is what I got by googling western state law school employment. Let me repeat: DO NOT GO. There are jobless graduates of T14 law schools, Tier 1 law schools, Tier 2 law schools and Tier 3 law schools. There are definitely no jobs for graduates of a school still on probational accreditation. It is ok if she's sad about this, it makes sense to be sad about realizing that something you really wanted to do was a terrible idea. She should take a few days to be sad about this and then figure out what else she wants to do. Also, apparently western state is a for-profit school. If that doesn't send her running I know of little else that will. fake edit: hey, look how everyone in this thread still agrees. fake edit 2: you can contact recent grads of schools that are employed at big firms by sorting out alma mater at those firms. Here is a good exercise: look at Latham's attorneys. Look at where they went to school. Note that none of them went to western state. Latham is a good firm (the decision to fire 1/3 of their employees notwithstanding) with lawyers from almost every school. Except western state. Look at some other big firms and see whether they have hired anyone from western state. Because western state is not good even the people who are at the top of their class each year aren't getting hired.
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May 27, 2010 23:41
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The Arsteia posted:Alright transfer app to Minnesota is in, if i don't hear back from them before mid-June I'm applying to Wisconsin. You did this in the wrong order traitor
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May 27, 2010 23:53
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Has anybody used examsoft for the bar? I just got an e-mail for the IL bar asking whether or not I wanted to pay $100 for the honour of taking the bar on my laptop. Is it worth $100? What is it like?
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May 28, 2010 00:06
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vibrantglow posted:if i'm going to buy one supplement for evidence, which should it be? Federal Rules of Evidence (2007)
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May 28, 2010 00:06
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Petey posted:Almost did this (offered full ride at Cardozo); so loving happy and grateful every day that I didn't. In the last 2 years, I have yet to meet a Cardozo 3L who actually had a job lined up. I think that school and New York Law School has really been able to ride the myth of the commonplace $180k starting firm salary to the bank. EDIT: Thought twice about the last part of this post... Eric Cantonese fucked around with this message at 00:31 on May 28, 2010 |
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May 28, 2010 00:07
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Lykourgos posted:Has anybody used examsoft for the bar? I just got an e-mail for the IL bar asking whether or not I wanted to pay $100 for the honour of taking the bar on my laptop. Is it worth $100? What is it like? I type about four times faster than I handwrite and about a million percent more legibly. Combine that with the ability to edit what I wrote and taking the test on a laptop was invaluable to me. Of course, tons of people take the test with pen and paper and supposedly the passage rates between the two formats are similar. But I wouldn't skip out on using your laptop just to save $100 if it will at all impact your ability to successfully complete the test.
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May 28, 2010 00:13
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Lykourgos posted:Has anybody used examsoft for the bar? I just got an e-mail for the IL bar asking whether or not I wanted to pay $100 for the honour of taking the bar on my laptop. Is it worth $100? What is it like? I'm kind of glad I had to handwrite the NY bar exam. I tend to type out all my thoughts and then edit and edit and edit because it's so easy and that easily could have sucked out too much time in a test where timing and simplicity is everything. It's sort of like how Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote all of his decisions on a standing desk to keep himself from writing too much, except he's a legal titan and I'm a moron.
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May 28, 2010 00:13
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The Arsteia posted:Alright transfer app to Minnesota is in, if i don't hear back from them before mid-June I'm applying to Wisconsin. Come to Wisconsin. You can witness JR's finals-period break-downs in person.
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May 28, 2010 00:34
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She's wondering who the gently caress you guys are and where are all the unemployed lawyers you're talking about? She thinks that's there's no harm in going to Western State because she'll get her JD and pass the bar exam like every other lawyer, that they all learn the same damned material and they offered her a really huge scholarship. She thinks that you guys are just saying that she won't have a house by the beach or a cushy corporate firm, but I don't think she understands that it's more dire than that. I need to let this sit for a couple of days because now we're just straight up fighting about it. She thinks she has no choice in the matter and that this is what she wants to do, I should just shut up and support her, blah blah. She thinks that it'll be totally fine if she goes to a lovely school, it's fine if she settles, at least she'll have an edge on people with just undergraduate degrees if she has not be a lawyer and just enter the job market. This is getting so stupid. "Yes, all of these guys on this website are just trying to trick and you and I, and they're not really lawyers or students, it's just a vast network of carefully planned trolls with nothing more important to do than to gently caress with you all day and night." The Warp fucked around with this message at 00:44 on May 28, 2010 |
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May 28, 2010 00:35
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The Warp posted:She's wondering who the gently caress you guys are and where are all the unemployed lawyers you're talking about? She thinks that's there's no harm in going to Western State because she'll get her JD and pass the bar exam like every other lawyer, that they all learn the same damned material and they offered her a really huge scholarship. She thinks that you guys are just saying that she won't have a house by the beach or a cushy corporate firm, but I don't think she understands that it's more dire than that. I am an unemployed lawyer, I got my JD and passed the bar exam like every other lawyer, I learned the same damned material and I got a small scholarship but even if I had a big one I'd still be screwed because I'm overqualified for nonlawyer jobs and underqualified (apparently) for lawyer ones I also went to a better school than her Seriously, she if see can find some grads to talk to or talk to some law firm people, asking about how many lawyers they've hired from Western State or what their opinion of the school is or something
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May 28, 2010 00:40
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I can't think of any other profession where the name of the school you go to has such a profound impact on your career. It is literally something that will define you for your entire life as a lawyer. I've met more lawyers than I can count who are 60+ and are still defensive about the school they went to. I think there's a fair argument that the name of your law school is the single most important thing in determining your career potential.
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May 28, 2010 00:48
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Lykourgos posted:Has anybody used examsoft for the bar? I just got an e-mail for the IL bar asking whether or not I wanted to pay $100 for the honour of taking the bar on my laptop. Is it worth $100? What is it like? I decided to spend the $100 to use Examsoft for the upcoming NY bar. It looks to be a word processor that locks down your computer, that's pretty much it. The program only runs on Windows so you'll need to install Windows using Boot Camp if you're on a mac. I've heard the same thing as Cormack - there aren't big difference pass rates between handwriting and laptop users. But I haven't handwritten a single exam in law school, I figure there's no reason to change that now.
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May 28, 2010 00:50
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quotison posted:I decided to spend the $100 to use Examsoft for the upcoming NY bar. It looks to be a word processor that locks down your computer, that's pretty much it. The program only runs on Windows so you'll need to install Windows using Boot Camp if you're on a mac. We used Examsoft for exams at my school; it's convenient, let's you cut & paste, saves your work, and has a spellcheck feature (though examiners might be able to disable it). It's nice. I don't know if it is worth $100, but it's nice.
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May 28, 2010 00:53
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The Warp posted:She's wondering who the gently caress you guys are and where are all the unemployed lawyers you're talking about? She thinks that's there's no harm in going to Western State because she'll get her JD and pass the bar exam like every other lawyer, that they all learn the same damned material and they offered her a really huge scholarship. I'm unemployed. I went to UVA Law (T14), was on Law Review (prestigious) and have passed the bar (in 2 states), was employed for 6 months at a good law firm in NYC, and now have no job and have been unemployed for a little over a year. I wouldn't recommend going to a lovely school in this economy. It's tough out there and there's a lot of competition. The most frustrating part is that Like Ainsley, not only can I not get a job as an attorney, I can't get a job as something like a paralegal either. I was a paralegal before going to law school so I have real life experience at it and it doesn't matter. What does she want to do with her law degree anyway? TyChan posted:In the last 2 years, I have yet to meet a Cardozo 3L who actually had a job lined up The person they kept in my firms finance department over me was a Cardozo grad. He was the firm's diversity scholarship person his 1L year (Asian Male). Lykourgos posted:Has anybody used examsoft for the bar? I used it for both my exams, I think it's worth it, but I can't hand write for poo poo - my hand cramps up really quickly and I like the ability to go back and edit neatly and rearrange things very easily.
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May 28, 2010 00:53
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The Warp posted:She thinks that you guys are just saying that she won't have a house by the beach or a cushy corporate firm, but I don't think she understands that it's more dire than that. Hmm. What exactly does she want from law then? Is she going to be pro-bono or go into public interest? How big is the scholarship again? The way I think of it now, if you're spending as much as an extra $100k on school either in tuition, living expenses, or both, it'd better be worth it and to be worth it, you're usually either doing something super important and prestigious so you don't have to have a ton of cash or you're building a cushy life for yourself. I guess that sounds pretty superficial and I'm kind of far gone, but still...
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May 28, 2010 00:56
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The Warp posted:Stuff She has literally no idea what the legal profession, law school, or her prospective school choices entail. She is only going because she's "supposed" to go to law school. There's really no reasoning with that and the more evidence she's presented with that law school is an awful idea the more sure she will be that going to Western or that other school is a good idea. Please don't end up marrying this girl, she's probably going to wreck her future but you can save yourself! The Warp posted:She's wondering who the gently caress you guys are and where are all the unemployed lawyers you're talking about? There's like a hundred thousand at home living with their parents. Does she think that there's not a lot of unemployed lawyers because she doesn't see day laborers in suits standing outside law firms getting into pickup trucks to do document review? Mattavist fucked around with this message at 01:02 on May 28, 2010 |
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May 28, 2010 00:58
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HooKars posted:The person they kept in my firms finance department over me was a Cardozo grad. He was the firm's diversity scholarship person his 1L year (Asian Male). I bet he slept with someone important. In all seriousness, it's like one of those things where everyone in NYC goes, "well, I know someone from Cardozo who now works at Skadden," and it turns out it's always the same guy (or girl). The snobby part of me thinks that background sticks out in people's minds because it's actually rare. The fact that the school can spin that into making lots of people think it's a commonplace thing really ticks me off.
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May 28, 2010 01:04
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diospadre posted:There's like a hundred thousand at home living with their parents. Does she think that there's not a lot of unemployed lawyers because she doesn't see day laborers in suits standing outside law firms getting into pickup trucks to do document review? You know I bet I could make good money starting a document review firm with this exact business model.
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May 28, 2010 01:07
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TyChan posted:I bet he slept with someone important. He didn't even interview with the firm ever. Essentially he applied for a diversity scholarship and then they selected him and randomly placed him with a firm. As far as I can tell, he could have ended up at Skadden as long as they were participating in the program. I don't think he'd be working there without the scholarship though he apparently proved his worth more than I did.
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May 28, 2010 01:11
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HooKars posted:I don't think he'd be working there without the scholarship though he apparently proved his worth more than I did. It might also be awkward for the firm to lay off its diversity hire.
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May 28, 2010 01:15
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HooKars posted:He didn't even interview with the firm ever. Essentially he applied for a diversity scholarship and then they selected him and randomly placed him with a firm. As far as I can tell, he could have ended up at Skadden as long as they were participating in the program. You know, I've heard about these programs in the context of coveted entertainment industry internships. I didn't know they reached into summer associates too. It sounded like the best kind of golden ticket if you got one, and I guess in this case, it really is.
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May 28, 2010 01:21
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The Warp posted:She's wondering who the gently caress you guys are and where are all the unemployed lawyers you're talking about? Just get her an account or have her PM/IM/Call some of the people in this thread. Also all the unemployed lawyers are pretty visible in the news articles posted throughout this thread, and every single law school campus in America. Unemployed classmates probably outnumbered the employed ones at IUB, and they most definitely do at whatever those two law schools she was looking at (it's not tough to outnumber a party of 0).
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May 28, 2010 01:29
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in absentia posted:Come to Wisconsin. You can witness JR's finals-period break-downs in person. It truly is an amazing thing! Join us...join us...no bar exam...join us...
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May 28, 2010 01:43
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