Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

«‹›1550 »

Pook Good Mook: Aug 6, 2013; ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

X-ing going for as cheap as possible. I wound up making my decision based on future debt compared to employment outcomes. It's unbelievable how stress free it is to go to law school on a full scholarship, even though it meant turning down my top choice.

# ? Oct 28, 2014 17:05

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 27, 2024 06:54

Lote: Aug 5, 2001; Place your bets

Zarkov Cortez posted:

Nothing like watching your opponent (the prosecution) having to deal with a pro per or a mentally ill person (a category which often includes pro pers)

e:
Had one guy who we were withdrawing from representing, he insisted on providing the Judge with his Big Brother Canada contestant collage which he had photoshopped his head shot into (he was in custody and brought it with him). He went on to explain, on the record, after we had applied for leave to withdraw how he was going to be adopted by Justin Bieber's dad. He would then be Bieber's big brother, and then Big Brother Canada would put him on their show. After winning he was going to go on the Amazing Race and win.

After that, using his winnings, he was going to start a foundation for "Good Bad Boys". He explained that there are a lot of good boys who turn bad because of crime. These boys are forced to stuff meat and cheese down their pants to survive. He explained to the judge that it's not just poor aboriginal boys, and that there are poor white/African/Chinese boys. Then after that he was going to become the Prime Minister and solve the criminal justice system.

First Judge insisted he try to resolve things with counsel. We then brought the application a week later and the second Judge didn't let him talk. He then said he wanted to plead guilty for time served, but that he didn't do it. After the Judge explained to him that they could not accept a guilty plea if he said he didn't do it, the guy said he should just be let out on bail because he was a Christian. At that time the Judge granted our request, but forced the Crown to wait in court until the very end of the docket to deal with him.

Mania is a hellofa thing.

# ? Oct 28, 2014 17:23

Zarkov Cortez: Aug 18, 2007; Alas, our kitten class attack ships were no match for their mighty chairs

Gleri posted:

The absolute funniest thing I learned when I started with the Crown was the prevalence of pants cheese and, to a lesser extent, pants meat. I'm glad* to hear that pants cheese is an issue elsewhere in Canada. I don't know how it is in the States or whatever but around here cheese is one of the most commonly stolen categories of goods beaten out only I think by liquor and cigarettes and the criminals always stuff it down their pants. This is of course super obvious and often very funny because no matter how droopy your drawers are they aren't hiding a full wheel of cheese.

*N.B.: I'm not actually "glad." Shoplifting is a crime that harms us all.

I forget who told me this (I think it was a Crown), but they said that even if there was full recovery of the items the store (maybe it was only one store) policy was not to resell the items because of liability issues. I mentioned that I was told this to one of the other lawyers in my office. His response was to laugh, and explain how he always washes the packaging of his meat/cheese when he brings it home.

Zarkov Cortez fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Oct 28, 2014

# ? Oct 28, 2014 17:39

echopapa: Jun 2, 2005; El Presidente smiles upon this thread.

Gleri posted:

The absolute funniest thing I learned when I started with the Crown was the prevalence of pants cheese and, to a lesser extent, pants meat. I'm glad* to hear that pants cheese is an issue elsewhere in Canada. I don't know how it is in the States or whatever but around here cheese is one of the most commonly stolen categories of goods beaten out only I think by liquor and cigarettes and the criminals always stuff it down their pants. This is of course super obvious and often very funny because no matter how droopy your drawers are they aren't hiding a full wheel of cheese.

*N.B.: I'm not actually "glad." Shoplifting is a crime that harms us all.

I don�t remember if they ever dealt with pants cheese on Trailer Park Boys, but it seems like they must have.

# ? Oct 28, 2014 22:14

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

nm posted:

My advice if you really want to do this: Come to California. As far as I know, we're the only place that pays a living wage to PDs as we're all at parity with DA's. At a large, urban office, you can top out near $200k and starting salaries aren't terrible. Except San Diego because people who work there are suckers.
Note that our big urban offices (San Francisco, Alameda, Santa Clara, LA, maybe OC DO care where you went to law school). Other offices don't (Anything in the Valley, IE, smaller counties). You get a pension which can still near 100% at 65 y.o. after pension reform (I have an old pension, I'm retiring at 55 bitches), vacations, and it is virtually impossible to be fired.
On the other hand, it is stressful as gently caress, thankless, everyone hates you, politics, and a continuous fight between what is best for the clients and what is best for the office. If the idea of having hundreds of open cases, doing too many trials without enough prep time and few resources appeals to you, PD work may be for you. Everyone "wants" to be a PD, but most people burn out quick and note that the skills are hard to transfer.
Caveat: We still have hundreds of people applying for every opening, and it is expected that you'll work for free for a year or so somewhere to even get an interview.

edit: DAs on the other hand, have an easy as gently caress job. If you have no soul, do that. Bonus: Good for getting into politics.

CT is the same...PD contract has to mirror the prosecutors. (They aren't allowed to unionize though)

# ? Oct 29, 2014 00:21

Nichol: May 18, 2004; Sly Dog

Razor blades are also (obvs) stuck down a lot of pants.

I am enamored with the idea of a cheese fence though, or someone opening up a trenchcoat in an alley to reveal a small deli pinned to the liner

The worst part about working primarily Legal Aid here is that poo poo clients almost never show up for trials. Or listen to my advice. Or stop doing drugs and stealing cheese.

Unaffordable hard drug habits are bad mm'kay?

# ? Oct 29, 2014 00:57

Zarkov Cortez: Aug 18, 2007; Alas, our kitten class attack ships were no match for their mighty chairs

Nichol posted:

Razor blades are also (obvs) stuck down a lot of pants.

I am enamored with the idea of a cheese fence though, or someone opening up a trenchcoat in an alley to reveal a small deli pinned to the liner

The worst part about working primarily Legal Aid here is that poo poo clients almost never show up for trials. Or listen to my advice. Or stop doing drugs and stealing cheese.

Unaffordable hard drug habits are bad mm'kay?

Saw someone doing a disposition last year for a guy that stole something like 200 lollipops from Dollarama.

Zarkov Cortez fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Oct 29, 2014

# ? Oct 29, 2014 02:27

Defleshed: Nov 18, 2004; F is for... FREEDOM

Another acquittal on a sexual assault case today.

goarmy.com

# ? Oct 29, 2014 02:37

semicolonsrock: Aug 26, 2009; chugga chugga chugga

CaptainScraps posted:

Roger_Mudd and I are never going to get to see each other lawyer despite practicing in the same field and same courthouse.

On the plus side, his opposing counsel saw me try to eavesdrop their hearing today and said something like "Oh god. He's not your partner, is he?"

I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

**in the romantic sense, I assume.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 03:16

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

Defleshed posted:

Another acquittal on a sexual assault case today.

goarmy.com

Thanks Obama for your unlawful command influence!

# ? Oct 29, 2014 04:39

Elotana: Dec 12, 2003; and i'm putting it all on the goddamn expense account

SlothBear posted:

Assuming you ignore all the good advice to not go, listen to these words like you have never listened to anyone before.

Go to a school that offers you a full ride and is located somewhere you can get hands on experience.

Yeah, a 3.5 and a 172 is still probably good for a full ride at a T2 or something, and that's not chopped liver. If all you want to do is become a PD then why sink 200k into Columbia? The "academic rigor" it offers isn't going to help you defend some schmuck's DUI.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 05:08

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007

I have a question and I figured I'd ask here.

I'm starting a business and will be employing primarily independent contractors. I need an independent contractor agreement. I did some research and it seems like the type of thing I should NOT try to write myself. The problem is that lawyers are loving expensive. Most that I've looked at charge hundreds of dollars an hour, which is money I don't have right now.

Anyone here got experience with this sort of thing? The agreement won't be complex - I just need to cover my bases and make sure it doesn't say anything that is against California state law.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 05:37

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

You can't even find the legal advice thread. You probably need a lawyer.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 05:51

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007

nm posted:

You can't even find the legal advice thread. You probably need a lawyer.

Thanks for the condescending answer.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 06:18

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Welcome, but that is exactly the type of thing you need a lawyer for and it even won't cost that much.
No one is exposing themselves to a malpractice lawsuit by signing off on something someone posted on sa.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 06:22

Soylent Pudding: Jun 22, 2007; We've got people!

I've never understood the idiots who think spending a few hundred up front to avoid huge liability exposure is an unnecessary expense or drafting a good contract is somehow easy. That said I love them because when I practiced my firm did a ton of business cleaning up the mistakes of those who tried to be penny wise.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 06:25

woozle wuzzle: Mar 10, 2012

enraged_camel posted:

Thanks for the condescending answer.

HEY

DOCTOR THREAD

I'VE GOT THIS LUMP ON M'NECK! CAN'T AFFORD NO INSURANCE. THANKS OBAMA

ANYWAY, WHATDYA THINK

GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM?

STOP MESSING AROUND. JUST TELL ME WHAT IT IS LIKE THAT HOUSE FELLA

# ? Oct 29, 2014 06:59

Hot Dog Day #91: Jun 19, 2003

enraged_camel posted:

I have a question and I figured I'd ask here.

I'm starting a business and will be employing primarily independent contractors. I need an independent contractor agreement. I did some research and it seems like the type of thing I should NOT try to write myself. The problem is that lawyers are loving expensive. Most that I've looked at charge hundreds of dollars an hour, which is money I don't have right now.

Anyone here got experience with this sort of thing? The agreement won't be complex - I just need to cover my bases and make sure it doesn't say anything that is against California state law.

I just need it to be legal under applicable state and federal law. Nothing complex. You'll do it for free, right?

# ? Oct 29, 2014 11:50

the milk machine: Jul 23, 2002; lick my keys

enraged_camel posted:

I have a question and I figured I'd ask here.

I'm starting a business and will be employing primarily independent contractors. I need an independent contractor agreement. I did some research and it seems like the type of thing I should NOT try to write myself. The problem is that lawyers are loving expensive. Most that I've looked at charge hundreds of dollars an hour, which is money I don't have right now.

Anyone here got experience with this sort of thing? The agreement won't be complex - I just need to cover my bases and make sure it doesn't say anything that is against California state law.

If you can't afford a few hundred bucks for a lawyer, you probably can't afford to start a business.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 13:21

algebra testes: Mar 5, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

There have been some great "start up business" ideas in the legal thread. My favorite was "I significantly copied all aspects of a popular board game and created a version on facebook, on a scale of 1-10 how hosed am I?"

# ? Oct 29, 2014 13:33

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

enraged_camel posted:

I have a question and I figured I'd ask here.

I'm starting a business and will be employing primarily independent contractors. I need an independent contractor agreement. I did some research and it seems like the type of thing I should NOT try to write myself. The problem is that lawyers are loving expensive. Most that I've looked at charge hundreds of dollars an hour, which is money I don't have right now.

Anyone here got experience with this sort of thing? The agreement won't be complex - I just need to cover my bases and make sure it doesn't say anything that is against California state law.

I handle mostly labor and employment work, and I do independent contractor agreements all the time. I'd be happy to help, assuming no preexisting conflicts.

And good news -- no need to worry about your cash shortfall. We accept credit cards. My billing rate is $275 an hour, and firm policy requires at least a ten hour retainer.

Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Oct 29, 2014

# ? Oct 29, 2014 13:39

Zarkov Cortez: Aug 18, 2007; Alas, our kitten class attack ships were no match for their mighty chairs

LordPants posted:

There have been some great "start up business" ideas in the legal thread. My favorite was "I significantly copied all aspects of a popular board game and created a version on facebook, on a scale of 1-10 how hosed am I?"

Boardgames?

The reason I know about that case is because of his more recent lawsuit because they didn't let his daughter into medical school and the website he made in response to a news article, which I was told he circulated via mass emails to the entire Bar.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 13:50

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

enraged_camel posted:

I have a question and I figured I'd ask here.

I'm starting a business and will be employing primarily independent contractors. I need an independent contractor agreement. I did some research and it seems like the type of thing I should NOT try to write myself. The problem is that lawyers are loving expensive. Most that I've looked at charge hundreds of dollars an hour, which is money I don't have right now.

Anyone here got experience with this sort of thing? The agreement won't be complex - I just need to cover my bases and make sure it doesn't say anything that is against California state law.

A. Drafting a contractual agreement actually is VERY complex.
B. So let me get this straight...you want to start a business, presumably to make money...but you don't want to pay a "loving expensive lawyer." Will you be offering your services for free once your business is set up? If not, you're a bit hypocritical, no?
C. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
D. No, really. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Oct 29, 2014

# ? Oct 29, 2014 13:54

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Defleshed posted:

Another acquittal on a sexual assault case today.

goarmy.com

pfft...acquitting someone of sexual assault at court-martial is like shooting porpoises in a bucket. Was it a "sexual assault" or a "I got drunk and hosed a guy from my work station. Then my boyfriend/husband/parents/LCPO found out. RAPE!" case?

Anyway, gratz on your acquittal.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 13:56

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

enraged_camel posted:

I have a question and I figured I'd ask here.

I'm starting a business and will be employing primarily independent contractors. I need an independent contractor agreement. I did some research and it seems like the type of thing I should NOT try to write myself. The problem is that lawyers are loving expensive. Most that I've looked at charge hundreds of dollars an hour, which is money I don't have right now.

Anyone here got experience with this sort of thing? The agreement won't be complex - I just need to cover my bases and make sure it doesn't say anything that is against California state law.

'nothing complex, just exactly what california state law is written to make as hard as possible'

# ? Oct 29, 2014 13:57

Defleshed: Nov 18, 2004; F is for... FREEDOM

ActusRhesus posted:

pfft...acquitting someone of sexual assault at court-martial is like shooting porpoises in a bucket. Was it a "sexual assault" or a "I got drunk and hosed a guy from my work station. Then my boyfriend/husband/parents/LCPO found out. RAPE!" case?

Anyway, gratz on your acquittal.

I'm the trial counsel

And you know, "mistake of fact as to consent" means that anything short of biting/scratching/kicking screaming bloody murder = consent. One of those kind of cases.

This sounds cynical but I'm honestly starting to think it's a backlash to the over-saturation of "training" potential panel members are receiving on this poo poo...

Defleshed fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Oct 29, 2014

# ? Oct 29, 2014 14:01

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Defleshed posted:

I'm the trial counsel

Ah. Bummer. Well, then don't take it personally because I stand by my statement that getting an acquittal in a court-martial is like shooting a porpoise in a bucket. Most sexual assault cases I saw while I was in were cases a civilian prosecutor wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Ironically, when DoD does have a valid case, they invariably are too chicken poo poo to do anything about it, trip over their own dicks, and then blame the most junior person in the room...usually the trial counsel. See e.g. US v. Velasquez.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 14:05

Defleshed: Nov 18, 2004; F is for... FREEDOM

ActusRhesus posted:

Ah. Bummer. Well, then don't take it personally because I stand by my statement that getting an acquittal in a court-martial is like shooting a porpoise in a bucket. Most sexual assault cases I saw while I was in were cases a civilian prosecutor wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Ironically, when DoD does have a valid case, they invariably are too chicken poo poo to do anything about it, trip over their own dicks, and then blame the most junior person in the room...usually the trial counsel. See e.g. US v. Velasquez.

Oh yeah this (like 90% of my Art. 120 cases) would have never seen the light of day in the civilian world. Somehow that never makes it on the news stories though! It's all about how we don't do enough.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 14:06

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Defleshed posted:

Oh yeah this (like 90% of my Art. 120 cases) would have never seen the light of day in the civilian world. Somehow that never makes it on the news stories though! It's all about how we don't do enough.

probably because the rare occasion there is a real case, some convening authority invariably fucks it up and people who are ignorant of the complete lack of prosecutorial discretion in the military just blame the lawyers. Check your inbox.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 14:16

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

So apparently we have a litigant arriving in family court at my courthouse from...wait for it...Liberia. Note to self: Avoid public bathroom.

~~I wonder what our worker's comp laws say about catching Ebola?~~ Can anyone in here who is a worker's comp or employment attorney tell me for free what the law says about catching Ebola?

ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Oct 29, 2014

# ? Oct 29, 2014 14:28

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Here in Texas, I do Contractor Agreements for $400.00 that my clients can use over and over again. Not that expensive.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 15:01

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

ActusRhesus posted:

A. Drafting a contractual agreement actually is VERY complex.
B. So let me get this straight...you want to start a business, presumably to make money...but you don't want to pay a "loving expensive lawyer." Will you be offering your services for free once your business is set up? If not, you're a bit hypocritical, no?
C. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
D. No, really. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

AR is easily my favorite new poster to this thread in several years

# ? Oct 29, 2014 15:09

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Soothing Vapors posted:

AR is easily my favorite new poster to this thread in several years

still waiting for my plaque and/or statuette and/or gift certificate.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 15:18

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Defleshed posted:

This sounds cynical but I'm honestly starting to think it's a backlash to the over-saturation of "training" potential panel members are receiving on this poo poo...

You may very well be right. I always drank most heavily after the alcohol awareness stand downs. Because gently caress you, you're not the boss of me.

In all seriousness though...there is definitely a perception that the DoD has a "get the numbers up at all cost" mentality, which I'm sure will either consciously or subconsciously make the members adopt a more critical view towards the evidence. The very public (and terrible fact pattern) cases don't help this.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 15:22

Hot Dog Day #91: Jun 19, 2003

blarzgh posted:

Here in Texas, I do Contractor Agreements for $400.00 that my clients can use over and over again. Not that expensive.

Hey thanks for the condescending answer.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 15:24

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

ActusRhesus posted:

You may very well be right. I always drank most heavily after the alcohol awareness stand downs. Because gently caress you, you're not the boss of me.

In all seriousness though...there is definitely a perception that the DoD has a "get the numbers up at all cost" mentality, which I'm sure will either consciously or subconsciously make the members adopt a more critical view towards the evidence. The very public (and terrible fact pattern) cases don't help this.

It's almost like gating promotion in the organization to senior levels behind a masters degree that almost always turns out to be an MBA is a bad idea.

Note this does not count for staff corps, but you guys don't really count anyways.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 15:47

Kalman: Jan 17, 2010

blarzgh posted:

Here in Texas, I do Contractor Agreements for $400.00 that my clients can use over and over again. Not that expensive.

Texas might just be different from California in how easy state law makes it to contractually own your contractor's children.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 15:48

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Mr. Nice! posted:

Note this does not count for staff corps, but you guys don't really count anyways.

I was going to type some clever reply but...you're right. :cry:

# ? Oct 29, 2014 15:51

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

Take a shot each time the one star says synergize.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 15:53

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 27, 2024 06:54

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

We actually had a metrics tracking system that included fields for "lean 6 sigma." How many hours a day would you say you spend Lean Six Sigmaing?

When I pointed out that "According to Wikipedia, the most informative source on all things ever 'Lean Six Sigma is a methodology that relies on a collaborative team effort to improve performance by systematically removing waste; combining lean manufacturing/lean enterprise and Six Sigma to eliminate the eight kinds of waste (muda): defects, overproduction, waiting, non-utilized talent , transportation, inventory, motion, extra-processing (abbreviated as "DOWNTIME")' and therefore my greatest Lean Six Sigma contribution was not using their metric tracker, as all the information in it was already cumulative of my appointment log and client notes" my CO was not amused. Said CO later became a three star.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:04

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

«‹›1550 »