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Also, "elf" should be used like "smurf" so that elves say poo poo like "Elf me hard, right in the elf."
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Dec 17, 2014 04:44
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I guess I'll pop out of the shadows to share my numbers and the resulting story of mediocrity. 173 LSAT (funny story, I took a prep course and got a 175 on the first day practice exam, this should have been a sign of the cash burning to come) T30 state school, very strong regionally, with a full ride for the first year. I graduated around the top 33% mark with no job and $60k of student loan debt. I remained unemployed for 8-9 months after graduation. Then I gave up and got a job doing doc review. It's actually a pretty cozy in-house position with a big firm with great benefits and a very pleasant work environment. It also has no career advancement potential, is suffering from modern clients refusing to pay the big money needed to fund massive doc review projects, and is ultimately doomed to be eliminated by technological advancements at some point in the relatively near future. Oh, and 90% of the work I do is mind-numbingly boring and 99% of the work I do is utterly soulless busy work for Overpaid Evil Corporate Overlords. It seems I have a high tolerance for these things. Flash forward nearly four years and I still work at this job. I finished paying off my loans two weeks ago. Also I'm 29 and I still live with my mom.
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Dec 17, 2014 05:48
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SlyFrog posted:Law School - You will end up too divorced, drunk, and burnt-out to watch jizz guzzling elves don't go new thread title tia.
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Dec 17, 2014 12:19
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joat mon posted:46 oldtimer  oldtimer
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Dec 17, 2014 13:15
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ActusRhesus posted:new thread title tia. I'm partial to Lawyer & Law School Megathread #13: Also I'm 29 and I still live with my mom.
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Dec 17, 2014 13:25
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yronic heroism posted:165 LSAT, T20 school (pro-tip: T(X) means its ranked about the greatest number it could be while falling inside X). I have an okay job mostly due to luck and extreme geographic flexibility. It could have been a lot worse, and it is for many, even if they did better in law school. Best be willing to hustle and take whatever work you can get for whatever pay they'll give. Whether it's growing your own shitlaw practice or convincing employers to look at you, everyone gets hazed one way or the other. TGULC (top law school Georgetown or better) is a thing given that it was T14 then Tsomething else when Georgetown moved for a year or something
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Dec 17, 2014 13:48
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Soothing Vapors posted:I'm partial to Lawyer & Law School Megathread #13: Also I'm 29 and I still live with my mom. Lawyer and Law School Megathread #13: Also, I'm 29 and I still live with my mom. That makes two of us! ...mainly because the banks are raking me over the coals to get financing for a house.
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Dec 17, 2014 14:57
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Well clearly it's because you are mediocre etc. Or it's just that the economy blows for everyone and the legal field has been hit particularly hard. I have a few recent grad friends who are trying to get on with the state. They have to compete with people who have already been working for the state sometimes for upwards of five years in undercompensated, no benefit "contractor" positions, and lawyers with years of private practice, state supreme court clerkships etc. etc. I do what I can for them, put in good words, etc. but it's loving brutal out there. Hang in there. As for the living with mom thing, just tell anyone who gives you side eye that it's a cultural thing to stay with one's family until marriage and they need to be sensitive to your culture.
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Dec 17, 2014 15:17
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I had sugarfree chocolate pudding for dinner and breakfast. I am 33 years old, but I am too tired to shop and my SO is out of town.
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Dec 17, 2014 15:24
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Soothing Vapors posted:I had sugarfree chocolate pudding for dinner and breakfast. I am 33 years old, but I am too tired to shop and my SO is out of town. Protein shakes and beef jerky. My wife is in town, but she had a night shift. ...also, I need to bulk up for my Dragoncon costume.
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Dec 17, 2014 15:38
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HiddenReplaced posted:...also, I need to bulk up for my Dragoncon costume. What were you saying about not having the nerdiest post in the thread?
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Dec 17, 2014 15:54
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Texas was T14 for like one year therefore I can claim T14 
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Dec 17, 2014 16:02
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Soothing Vapors posted:I had sugarfree chocolate pudding for dinner and breakfast. I am 33 years old, but I am too tired to shop and my SO is out of town. I made some nachos with some pork carnitas and shredded cheese in a toaster oven.
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Dec 17, 2014 16:04
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Elotana posted:Texas was T14 for like one year therefore I can claim T14 sounds legit. My school was never T14. Never. Nor will it be. But really high 9 month employment rate and bar passage, so yay! Also, for the love of god, people need to start filing their briefs so I have something to do. I know it's Christmas and all, but drat. I have one brief assigned (dizzy crackhead piece). It's not due until March. The entire argument can boil down to 3 pages of "All the alleged ineffectiveness relates to failing to discredit a witness whose testimony was only relevant to the charge of murder. As the petitioner was acquitted of the murder and convicted only of the conspiracy to commit murder, trial defense counsel obviously succeeded in discrediting the state's witness. Therefore trial defense counsel was not ineffective. Suck a dick." At first "guess I'll spend the day watching walking dead on amazon prime and organizing my files" was a nice break. Now I'm just bored. Mr. Nice! posted:I made some nachos with some pork carnitas and shredded cheese in a toaster oven. You're a military guy, you'll appreciate this. I used to make bitchin' DFAC nachos by crushing up taco shells into chips, turning tomatoes etc from the salad bar + hot sauce into "salsa" and topping with cheese and sour cream from the baked potato area. I had takeout last night. Again. Mother of the Year! ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 16:10
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I wish I still lived with my mom I'd have an extra probably 2 grand a month to save (or, more likely, spend on poo poo), I wouldn't have to cook dinner, the house would magically get cleaned (mom has a housekeeper), and she gets fiber to home while I'm stuck with twc. Oh and my parents have good booze. Moving out is for suckers.
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Dec 17, 2014 16:13
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Elotana posted:Texas was T14 for like one year therefore I can claim T14 I do this. No joke.
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Dec 17, 2014 16:52
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Folly posted:Kentucky. I take the patent bar in 7 days. I mostly pop in here for advice on that. You have a CS background, a JD near the top 10% of your class, industry experience, and will be passing the patent bar soon. The market is not as bad for you as it is for others (though it's probably not as good as it was before Alice Corp). You've probably missed the boat for biglaw hiring this year, but if you're serious about getting into the legal field and willing to relocate, you should be able to find a job at an IP boutique somewhere, and you can build your career from there. Get your resume ready to go and identify firms in areas you would be willing to relocate that have patent practices. As soon as you complete the test and get your "You passed!" print out from Prometric, put "USPTO Exam Passed - Registration Number Pending" on your resume and send it out to all of the firms you have identified. You will most likely need to leave Kentucky, and given that the biglaw hiring season is over it is unlikely (but possible) that a smaller firm will pay to relocate you, so be prepared to eat some travel costs for the interview and moving costs if you get an offer. On your resume, highlight any tasks related to actual software development/coding - minimize references to "IT" and focus on any tasks related to writing code, software development, and any design/engineering. You should get some interviews. Then you need to prepare. Come up with good excuses for why you want to live in a particular area - no one will remember them after you get hired, but nearly all firms want to make sure you have ties to the area (e.g., my wife's family lives in <next city over>). Make sure you are familiar with the Alice Corp decision (and other Supreme Court decisions related to section 101, 102, 103, and 112 from the past 30 years) and recent Federal Circuit decisions (anything post the en banc CLS Bank vs. Alice Corp decision) regarding computer-implemented inventions. Read and understand the new USPTO Eligibility Guidance that was released on Monday. If you get to that point and want to prepare more, send me a PM and I'll point you to some resources that you can use to prepare that would impress me if an entry level candidate was prepared to discuss them. If you don't land a job by next summer, you should be sending your resume to every firm in the country with a patent law practice - while many will bin your resume due to your class year, many won't, and industry experience counts for a lot to many practice group leaders/hiring partners in the patent world. Even if the best position you can land is as a prep/pros associate at a small firm, you will have opportunities to move to bigger/more prestigious firms, if that is what you want. I have the same undergraduate degree as you, went to a worse school than you, graduated lower in my class than you did, graduated in a worse year for legal hiring, and still had interviews as a bunch of top law firms (interviews that likely didn't turn into offers only because I was was totally clueless about patent law at the time and/or too goony - not because of my GPA or law school pedigree). While this isn't true for most lawyers, if you're serious about practicing patent law, willing to hustle to get a job, and not a complete social retard, it's still very possible to have a productive legal career with your background even if you didn't get hired right out of law school.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:28
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Hey man, we should move to one of the inland counties and start a law firm/militia compound that helps people who kidnap their stepkids and force 'em to buy meth precursors! Business will be great! It'll be fun!
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Dec 17, 2014 18:32
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quote:You have a CS background, a JD near the top 10% of your class, industry experience, and will be passing the patent bar soon. The market is not as bad for you as it is for others (though it's probably not as good as it was before Alice Corp).
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Dec 17, 2014 18:34
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NJ Deac posted:and not a complete social retard, Well gently caress me. Seriously though, thanks. That's some great interview advice. I haven't tracked the law in years, so I know I have some remedial ed. to do before interviews. This gives me a place to start. Right now I'm still worried about passing the exam itself.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:06
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Elotana posted:If a patent is invalid under Alice, did it really need someone with a CS background to write it? Regardless of whether a given case needs a CS background to be properly written, some clients and/or firms prefer their attorneys handling computer-implemented cases to have CS/EE backgrounds. After Alice, it has become more uncertain as to whether any given computer-implemented invention can get through the USPTO (good luck if you end up in a 3600 art unit). As such, clients are more uncertain as to whether any given invention is worth the cost of a filing, particularly if the case is in a gray area that may or may not get an Alice rejection. In many cases, this has caused some clients to scale back their filings, thus resulting in less work for said CS/EE attorneys. Less work means fewer attorneys with the appropriate background are needed to handle the work, meaning there are fewer jobs and less hiring than there was previously. I don't think saying that the market is less rosy for CS associates post-Alice than pre-Alice is a particularly controversial statement, though it's certainly debatable as to the size of the impact. Alternatively, if that was just some kind of patent drafting koan, then ignore the serious response above. NJ Deac fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 20:03
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re: Alice, I think that the line of patentability should be the difference between poo poo like "find documents that match keyword based on some ranking metric" (unpatentable) and "arrange index in particular way" (patentable as the particular optimization relies on the fact that the underlying computer has physical limitations related to, e.g., bus width, memory allocation blocks, etc.) basically any invention directed to underlying semantic meaning of the data involved shouldn't be patentable
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Dec 17, 2014 20:36
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I just successfully argued around a 101 Alice rejection made by an Examiner in a 3600 art unit. I feel pretty cool.
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Dec 17, 2014 20:43
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ActusRhesus posted:What were you saying about not having the nerdiest post in the thread? At my old firm there was a partner in another group that was on Dragoncon's Board. He was in charge of the LARPing division. Sadly, he joined the firm shortly before I left, so we never had a chance to do anything that would get us into the pages of erotica.
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Dec 17, 2014 20:44
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HiddenReplaced posted:At my old firm there was a partner in another group that was on Dragoncon's Board. He was in charge of the LARPing division. Sadly, he joined the firm shortly before I left, so we never had a chance to do anything that would get us into the pages of erotica. I envy your camaraderie, even if short lived. Best I've got going for me is another prosecutor at a different office who does the same community theater poo poo I do. Though in fairness, that allowed me to, when discussing his application to our office, tell the boss man: "Well, he's not opposed to having his balls grabbed in public. I think that's a plus." Apparently boss thought so too...guy made it to second interview round. Fingers crossed! PS have I mentioned I love our boss? ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 20:55
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HiddenReplaced posted:At my old firm there was a partner in another group that was on Dragoncon's Board. He was in charge of the LARPing division. Sadly, he joined the firm shortly before I left, so we never had a chance to do anything that would get us into the pages of erotica. There's a partner at my firm who is a known LARPer and roleplaying/board game enthusiast. Huge nerd. But I'm living my shameful sad life on the d/l, Slyfrog/Warhammer style, and I have never been able to reach out to him. I look at him with yearning in my eyes sometimes. I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm into him Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2014 21:14
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:re: Alice, I think that the line of patentability should be the difference between poo poo like "find documents that match keyword based on some ranking metric" (unpatentable) and "arrange index in particular way" (patentable as the particular optimization relies on the fact that the underlying computer has physical limitations related to, e.g., bus width, memory allocation blocks, etc.)
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Dec 17, 2014 21:14
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NJ Deac posted:In many cases, this has caused some clients to scale back their filings, thus resulting in less work for said CS/EE attorneys. Less work means fewer attorneys with the appropriate background are needed to handle the work, meaning there are fewer jobs and less hiring than there was previously. I don't think saying that the market is less rosy for CS associates post-Alice than pre-Alice is a particularly controversial statement, though it's certainly debatable as to the size of the impact. Hell it might end up being a boon in the short-term because there's probably going to be a flurry of declaratory judgment cases and companies will want CYA analyses on their portfolios.
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Dec 17, 2014 22:05
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Ersatz posted:That makes sense to me, and it's in line with DDR. I still think the guidelines are too vague and 101 rejections should be challenged under the Administrative Procedures Act
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Dec 18, 2014 02:54
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Elotana posted:I've been scouring job listings all year, and I haven't really noticed a particular drop off in the CS/EE specific listings. I don't think there's been any drop in hiring at all. I don't think that there has been any slowdown in work from clients that I work with either. But I do both EE and CS stuff. The job market looks so good that I'm even getting stuff from legal recruiters saying that they will give you a bonus if you take a job at another firm, not even including whatever signing bonus you might be able to get from the firm itself.
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Dec 18, 2014 03:31
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That decision came out in June of this year, right? It's a little early for the legal market to respond. If I remember from watching the job market dry up while I was in school, I think the legal market lags the regular market by about 1 to 1.5 years. Because that's about how long it takes to clear up matters that are already in progress when the market changes. Of course, patents seem to have a more definite timeline, so maybe those jobs would dry up sooner.
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Dec 18, 2014 13:12
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I had lunch with a law school friend who reminded me that everyone from our 100 person graduating class (at what is now a t100 apparently) has a full time law-type job. 2.5 years out but still. The 9 month rate was like 60 percent.
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Dec 18, 2014 14:55
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Our T50 (barely) school has pretty high employment too (though I'm at the 8 year out mark...but at 2 we were also doing well) But we had the advantage of being a very "regional employment" based program, the only law school in the state's main metropolis (and one of only 2 in the whole state) with a lot of clinic focus and a very small student body. the ones who either wanted DC of east coast biglaw were a little disappointed. The ones who said "Hey, this is one of the best firms in the state...I'm going to try to be a summer associate there!" have been starting to pick up partner over the last 2 years.
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Dec 18, 2014 15:31
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Folly posted:That decision came out in June of this year, right? It's a little early for the legal market to respond.
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Dec 18, 2014 15:34
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gvibes posted:It's more firms sucking at being actual businesses than anything else. Truth.
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Dec 18, 2014 15:42
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ActusRhesus posted:Our T50 (barely) school has pretty high employment too (though I'm at the 8 year out mark...but at 2 we were also doing well) But we had the advantage of being a very "regional employment" based program, the only law school in the state's main metropolis (and one of only 2 in the whole state) with a lot of clinic focus and a very small student body. the ones who either wanted DC of east coast biglaw were a little disappointed. The ones who said "Hey, this is one of the best firms in the state...I'm going to try to be a summer associate there!" have been starting to pick up partner over the last 2 years. I can't believe I thought you were in Missouri.
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Dec 18, 2014 17:22
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:I can't believe I thought you were in Missouri. hahahahahahahahahhahahaha. Oh god no. No. no, no, no, no. PM me if you are truly curious where I am. I am not a fan of elected DAs. Or prosecutors who hand out jury instructions that have been unconstitutional since 1986. I think there was a lot of misrepresentation of that case, and the justice system, which I tried to correct from an objective "Look, DnD that's not how this works" stance. (Because I am a masochist.) But there was a lot done there that was kind of amateur hour. In other news...appellate court term announced. Arguing on the 5th and again on the 13th. Each case has 4 issues presented. FML. Merry Christmas. (luckily one attorney is batshit crazy, and still mad I got her entire appendix stricken, so it should be a fun argument.) ETA...but I don't practice in the state I went to school. ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 18, 2014 17:28
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ActusRhesus posted:hahahahahahahahahhahahaha. No I know exactly where you are. You're doing two appellate arguments in the next thirty days?
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Dec 18, 2014 17:35
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:No I know exactly where you are. yup. Not the first time. One month I had two in the same week.
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Dec 18, 2014 17:36
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ActusRhesus posted:yup. I admit I'm always completely confused about how military law works - are there internal courts of appeal? (Or are you actually a state/federal prosecutor who no longer does military work and I've been horribly misreading your posts all this time)
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Dec 18, 2014 17:39
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