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evilweasel posted:To be fair, I don't exactly deal with rape charges as a litigation attorney. In fact I'd expect most attorneys never get near a sexual assault/rape/etc case, so you can justify making that an opt-in sort of thing. Once you get to the "that's irrelevant to what I want to do" stage, I would have liked to opt out of contracts, property, con law, crim pro, etc. etc.
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Dec 19, 2014 19:25
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Adar posted:Trigger warning: opposing counsel might suggest his client did not rape the victim Pure shitlordery
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Dec 19, 2014 19:25
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Grappling with this specific issue? Well, don't worry, Conor is here to make bad points badly.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:09
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My Crim Law class never even covered rape, nor most other crimes. It was 2/5 mens rea, 2/5 actus reus, and 1/5 murder.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:12
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Once you get to the "that's irrelevant to what I want to do" stage, I would have liked to opt out of contracts, property, con law, crim pro, etc. etc. As it is I guess I'm a career paralegal, which is working out pretty ok.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:15
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SlyFrog posted:I actually had one attorney refer to playing "those online games" (e.g. Everquest, World of Warcraft) as akin to a grown man playing with Barbie dolls. It's just that my Barbie dolls look loving sweet as they obliterate faceless masses of fantasy creatures with arcane magic and flaming swords.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:25
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Feelings are fleeting, private, convoluted personal experiences; they never affect two people the exact same way, are unpredictable, and immeasurable. We should never establish rules, regulations, or codes of conduct based on people's actual or potential feelings. The world is hard, and hardship is a part of life. Managing ones emotional hardships is a rite of passage to adulthood, and one that is carefully being phased out of our youth's development. Compounding the issue is the culture of victimhood. In our race to expose injustice and bring voice to silent suffering we forgot to consider the potential consequences of an "always believe the victim" approach. For starters, its made victimhood appealing to broken, attention-seeking mealworms, who's emotional hypochondria will ensure the lens of focus is always returned to them by creating whatever slight or injustice will net them that result. If the cooing and coddling starts to wane, up the ante; try to use words like "abuse" and "trigger" and "literally shaking" to make sure that all your other wiener friends know its your turn to be paid attention to. We're padding the walls of society against our own stupidity. We're protesting the consequences of our own actions and complaining about the hurdles between us and our goals, endeavoring to make all the things between us and success, all the things that make success difficult and worth while, to make them just... go away so it won't be so hard. I'm sorry something hurt your loving feelings. Life is hard. Get over it. gently caress
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Dec 19, 2014 20:34
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blarzgh posted:gently caress tumblrites
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Dec 19, 2014 20:49
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I've never met these people in real life. I think there are only about 100 of them in the whole country, its just that we know about 70 of them because of the internet and it seems like there's alot.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:13
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evilweasel posted:To be fair, I don't exactly deal with rape charges as a litigation attorney. In fact I'd expect most attorneys never get near a sexual assault/rape/etc case, so you can justify making that an opt-in sort of thing. I mean, it was testable for our bar exam and evidence of sexual conduct is in the rules of evidence as a thing you just have to know. Opt out of an elective like"rape law" sure, but if it's in barbri/basic crimlaw or even conlaw, I can't see justifying an opt out.
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Dec 19, 2014 22:25
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:I mean, it was testable for our bar exam and evidence of sexual conduct is in the rules of evidence as a thing you just have to know. Opt out of an elective like"rape law" sure, but if it's in barbri/basic crimlaw or even conlaw, I can't see justifying an opt out. The belief that an entire institution should bend to your individual emotional state is prima facia evidence that you lack the necessary fortitude to handle this job. Like, literally millions of people have suffered through worse to obtain less.
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Dec 19, 2014 23:54
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I don't know how people who believe that way think they will ever make a meaningful impact or much even less practice law. poo poo sucks and will affect you emotionally. That's life. You have to be able to deal with that poo poo to be a productive adult. Moreover, that is so loving offensive and infuriating for people that have actually been through rough poo poo. My fiance had a horribly traumatic childhood that took her years of counseling to come to terms with. She works in higher ed and has one of those loving tumblerites on her staff. It's everything she can do to not go off on the staffer on a daily basis. The staffer is terrible at the job, constantly claims she can't perform her duties because of the her "trauma" (which I won't get into other than it is completely made-up), and talks about triggers constantly. This has been going on for two years and the school will not terminate the staffer. They have a massive folder of evidence against her but HR refuses to pull the trigger for fear of it being seen as retaliatory. So unfortunately, it's not only a few people. Because of the Internet those 70 tumblerites have spread their gospel far and wide and recruited every mealworm that heard the call. And it's going to get much worse before it gets better. Sorry for the tangent but this poo poo has become an everyday frustration for the fiance. Saltpowered fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 00:09
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Cream rises to the top. The rest of the world will weed these fucks out.
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Dec 20, 2014 01:55
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Uhh yeah... Getting raped is definitely rough poo poo and having a hard time dealing with it is not offensive. I think it's incredibly reasonable that you let people who feel they will be traumatized by some specific, non-critical, lecture avoid it.
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Dec 20, 2014 01:58
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Adar posted:Trigger warning: opposing counsel there will probably also be slut shaming.
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Dec 20, 2014 02:00
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semicolonsrock posted:Uhh yeah... Getting raped is definitely rough poo poo and having a hard time dealing with it is not offensive. I think it's incredibly reasonable that you let people who feel they will be traumatized by some specific, non-critical, lecture avoid it. no one said it was offensive. Why is it that people on this site are so bad at responding to points that were actually made vice arguing against things no one said?
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Dec 20, 2014 02:07
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Ripped from the headlines exam hypos are the loving worst, but yeah, can't "opt out" of a whole category of law when taking the bar. Law professors are gonna take whatever they see as path of least resistance though.
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Dec 20, 2014 02:09
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If they get out of crime, I get to retroactively get out of secure transactions. not sure what that would accomplish, but why not?
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Dec 20, 2014 02:10
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ActusRhesus posted:no one said it was offensive. Why is it that people on this site are so bad at responding to points that were actually made vice arguing against things no one said? And spelling apparently! If someone wants to take the hit to their chances on the bar by skipping a section I don't see why they should be stopped.
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Dec 20, 2014 02:10
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Anyone can skip a lecture already, usually.
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Dec 20, 2014 02:14
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Jeannie Suk posted:Students seem more anxious about classroom discussion, and about approaching the law of sexual violence in particular, than they have ever been in my eight years as a law professor. Good lord, I remember being in her very first class and her being all nervous as hell with the rest of us. 
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Dec 20, 2014 02:19
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yronic heroism posted:Anyone can skip a lecture already, usually. Honestly, people can skip those lectures and skim the section from an outline bank before taking the final. As for the bar, that's honestly a risk they have to bear themselves at that point I think. Not knowing one specific section of the law very well shouldn't sink anyone's bar chances automatically.
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Dec 20, 2014 02:26
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Hi thread! I'm really trying to focus only on non-problematic areas of the law. Could anyone recommend a course schedule for me? Please advise.
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Dec 20, 2014 02:27
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Probad posted:Hi thread! I'm really trying to focus only on non-problematic areas of the law. Could anyone recommend a course schedule for me? Please advise. Secured transactions will poverty shame since a large number of secured transactions cases involve repoing cars.
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Dec 20, 2014 02:28
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ActusRhesus posted:no one said it was offensive. Why is it that people on this site are so bad at responding to points that were actually made vice arguing against things no one said? welcome to internet
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Dec 20, 2014 02:57
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Lawyer and Law School Megathread #13: Trigger Warning - Elf Sex Chat.
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Dec 20, 2014 03:55
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Soylent Pudding posted:Lawyer and Law School Megathread #13: Trigger Warning - Elf Sex Chat. I'm still not over zevran trying to kill me.
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Dec 20, 2014 04:40
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yronic heroism posted:Ripped from the headlines exam hypos are the loving worst This. quote:but yeah, can't "opt out" of a whole category of law when taking the bar. Well, you can pass while blanking every question for a given subject ... blarzgh posted:Cream rises to the top. The rest of the world will weed these fucks out. Funniest post I've read in years.
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Dec 20, 2014 05:11
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blarzgh posted:Cream rises to the top. Seems more accurate.
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Dec 20, 2014 05:21
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I had an opposing counsel I see every day talk to me about how much it sucked that he maxed out at $80k/year without benefits, and he is 58 years old, and he has no retirement. He is in this situation since his cushy State job (some random bail review Magistrate or something) became cut due to our Republican overlords no longer accepting tax money and cutting 50% of State non-judicial law spots. It was a very entertaining conversation but reminded me that $80k per year at 58 without benefits or retirement is a real thing for lawyers. "Do you have any idea what percentage of my income my health insurance is?" he asked me.
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Dec 20, 2014 08:25
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blarzgh posted:Cream rises to the top. The rest of the world will weed these fucks out. Yeah, generally people ultimately end up in positions ideally suited to their level of competence, particularly in the legal profession. Thank god for the well-oiled and objective meritocracy.
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Dec 20, 2014 08:51
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blarzgh posted:Compounding the issue is the culture of victimhood. In our race to expose injustice and bring voice to silent suffering we forgot to consider the potential consequences of an "always believe the victim" approach. For starters, its made victimhood appealing to broken, attention-seeking mealworms, who's emotional hypochondria will ensure the lens of focus is always returned to them by creating whatever slight or injustice will net them that result. If the cooing and coddling starts to wane, up the ante; try to use words like "abuse" and "trigger" and "literally shaking" to make sure that all your other wiener friends know its your turn to be paid attention to. I had a law school classmate tell me I had no business being a prosecutor because I didn't believe rape victims. (Which was a misstatement of my position. I do believe victims. I am very compassionate towards victims. I just recognize that not all accusers are victims, and the job of a prosecutor is to objectively look at the facts and evidence.) But these are the people we are dealing with. Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Secured transactions will poverty shame since a large number of secured transactions cases involve repoing cars. Contracts often involves people of unequal bargaining power, so it's like a metaphorical rape. Property law involves displays of socio-economic privilege with all its focus on estate planning. Family law spends too much time addressing cis-hetero-nuclear family arrangements and the term nuclear family is offensive. Bankruptcy stigmatizes the poor. Constitutional law is full or triggers. And all of criminal law, in fact, is offensive because the entire criminal justice system is unjust and disproportionately disenfranchises the poor and minorities. International law shows a bias in favor of first world (also an offensive term) and laws of international conflict are just more study on oppression and male violence. Law school is cancelled. Stop posted:Yeah, I skipped roughly a third of my 1L class, and about 50-60% of my non-clinic classes my 2L and 3L year. Still graduated with pretty good grades. This. People miss classes for a lot of reasons. No one is forcing people to attend the lectures. They just aren't giving them special treatment if they decide not to attend. semicolonsrock posted:And spelling apparently! I don't spell well because I have mild dyslexia and was raised by an ESL parent. I find your comment insensitive both to my disability status and my cultural status. Please check your privilege. I am now literally shaking and will not be able to continue posting in this thread until you apologize for your extremely offensive conduct. Also, because I am so traumatized by this comment, all other posters should give me a pass for the next...let's say...month...on any stupid things I might say, because it's the lingering effect of feeling marginalized. Again, literally shaking. ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 13:40
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ActusRhesus posted:This. People miss classes for a lot of reasons. No one is forcing people to attend the lectures. They just aren't giving them special treatment if they decide not to attend. Pretty sure the ABA is actually forcing you to attend something like 75% of your lectures in any individual class, not that it matters for your point. I learned most of the stuff I learned from my classmates and books. The lectures were mostly for sounding out what was going to be asked on the final. But, more importantly, the 1L required classes are required because they represent the knowledge that every lawyer should have as an officer of the court system. If there is any societal value in our profession, it's in our cumulative understanding of those first year classes - especially criminal law. That's theoretically why most of those classes are required. If a person argues that an attorney should be able to avoid understanding the entire criminal law topic of rape, then I question his/her philosophy about whether rape should be handled by our criminal justice system at all.
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Dec 20, 2014 16:20
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On the other hand, some schools don't require you to take criminal law in your first year and some don't even require property.
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Dec 20, 2014 16:55
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Are they ABA accredited? I was under the belief crim, contracts, civ pro, con law and property were ABA required 1L courses... Which feeds into Dolly's points about these being some of the most basic foundations of the legal system.
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Dec 20, 2014 17:11
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Bar rear end'n: Qualifications? Law Student: Rape, Murder, Arson and Rape
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Dec 20, 2014 17:16
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In Canada, depending on the school you go to, you can pretty much take "Gender and Sexuality and the Law and the Whales II" type classes through all three years if you like. Generally they make you take property, crim, constitutional, and contracts in the first year, but it's entirely possible to graduate without knowing anything about how to draft pleadings or anything at all about evidence or procedure, or basic poo poo about solicitor work. It's been made possible for people to sink 7 years of opportunity and tons of money and come out absolutely loving useless for any type of practice
terrorist ambulance fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 17:17
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I really don't remember my 1L classes though. All I remember from Contracts is that the market solves everything
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Dec 20, 2014 17:21
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ActusRhesus posted:Are they ABA accredited? I was under the belief crim, contracts, civ pro, con law and property were ABA required 1L courses... Which feeds into Dolly's points about these being some of the most basic foundations of the legal system. Yep, ABA accredited. Crim is still required, just to be taken before graduation instead of in 1L. The core required 1L classes are con law, civ pro, torts and contracts.
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Dec 20, 2014 17:21
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The Warszawa posted:Yep, ABA accredited. Crim is still required, just to be taken before graduation instead of in 1L. The core required 1L classes are con law, civ pro, torts and contracts. Oh yeah. Torts too. Interesting they let you space it out. We were just told ABA says you must take these. I feel lied to. Violated, if you will. Trigger warning.
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Dec 20, 2014 17:27
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