Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

Incredulous Red posted:

So I'll be working free for the LA City Attorney's office this summer.

Go me.

Where do you go to law school?

# ¿ May 7, 2010 02:54

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 12:45

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

Aschlafly posted:

Original plan was to go JD -> clerk -> LLM -> SJD -> professor. So yeah, I guess I didn't particularly want to practice law.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I don't think this is the way to become a professor anyway. I'm not sure where SJD grads go or what they do, but I've never encountered one.

# ¿ May 8, 2010 04:23

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

mrtoodles posted:

At my PD office, starting is $83k. DA is the same, of course.

Uhh, where is this? California also?

# ¿ May 10, 2010 15:23

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

quepasa18 posted:

Small firm -- I'm one of 4 attorneys, and I'm only part-time.

So is this a tenure-track position (or the junior college equivalent?) Like an assistant professorship? I'm not sure whether all community colleges have a tenure track-esque system but all the ones I've encountered do.

# ¿ May 11, 2010 20:28

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

quepasa18 posted:

Yes, tenure track. There's a 3-year probationary period and I'm already through the second year because I've been teaching half-time. So one more year and then I'm tenured! Good pay, good benefits, summers off, etc. I could not be more excited. This will be the first job I've ever had that I wasn't planning to leave at some point.

loving fantastic, man. Not sure what junior colleges are like in your state, but I can tell you that in my old state, once you get on the tenure track, it rapidly becomes a job with great security, surprisingly high pay, convenient hours, low stress, all that good poo poo. Congratulations, man--if that job is anything like they are back home, you've just gotten a better job than easily 90% of the thread

Are they going to have you teaching non-professional classes, ie classes for the normal associate's students?

# ¿ May 11, 2010 22:31

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

quepasa18 posted:

Pretty good for a TTT grad, huh?

Pretty good for anyone, really.

You should drop by the #lawgoons IRC channel on synirc when you have the time. I'd like to ask you some questions about your job if you're willing.

# ¿ May 11, 2010 23:06

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

The Arsteia posted:

Currently writing my transfer application for Minnesota and not having any luck with what to write about. What do I say other than "i really like your clinics and your school is like 100 spots up the ranking"?

This is basically what I wrote all my personal statements about, without mentioning their spot in the rankings, of course. Most were all some variation on "I want to practice this kind of law, your school would put me in a better position to practice it because of <reasons>." Make sure you mention any ties (familial or otherwise) that you have to the area, even if it's not a "regionally-oriented" law school, or any history that you have with the law school or its underlying University, if only to make them realize that you actually care about that school in particular and aren't just spamming.

# ¿ May 11, 2010 23:13

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

Roger_Mudd posted:

None but he volunteered that he could bring me back up after the bar. I guess if I could get him to pay me for studying for the bar it would come out as a wash.

What's your current job?

# ¿ May 13, 2010 23:08

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

More of you guys should drop by the #lawgoons chat room on synirc. Its where all the cool lawgoons hang out

# ¿ May 25, 2010 23:58

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

TyChan posted:

I think I've already posted this, but the dumbest thing people do is get bent on going to law school RIGHT NOW and choose a school that is substantially lower in rank than what they want. Nothing prevents you from reapplying and if you feel like you could have studied harder for the LSAT or not rushed your application essays or whatever else you did a substandard job on, there's nothing keeping you from giving it another go. Law school rank matters too much to just let your future prospects get constrained.

Not just this, but right now is maybe one of the best times in recent history to put off going to law school. The job market is utter poo poo right now, and even if it "recovers," (whatever that means) you'll still be competing with the hordes of under- and unemployed guys from the classes who graduated ahead of you, many of whom will have better credentials than you, especially if you go to a poorly-respected school. If you can't get into at least a top 50 school right now, you'd be an idiot not to put your plans on hold until your prospects improve.

There's never been a better time to not go to law school.

# ¿ May 27, 2010 22:12

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

TheMadMilkman posted:

Add me to the list of people who managed to get non-legal work after law school. I could have gotten the exact same position, with the exact same pay, and would now have BETTER opportunities for advancement if I had taken a year to get a Masters in Accounting instead of taking 3 years to get a law degree.

You got the IRS position, right? I think you talked about this in the thread earlier. Can you give a little more information on applying for non-lawyer jobs with the feds as a recent law school graduate? Did you do a Presidential Management Fellowship or anything like that?

# ¿ May 28, 2010 19:19

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

Adar posted:

Ithaca is the suicide capital of the US, true story

Not only this, but I'm pretty sure that Cornell's law students are the most studyingest (?!) law students in the entire nation. Enjoy your new classmates

# ¿ May 29, 2010 17:04

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

TheMadMilkman posted:

I started applying after the bar last July and was hired in by the IRS in April. I definitely didn't have the fellowship or anything like that. Hell, I graduated at the bottom of my class at a Tier 3 school. The fact that I found work at all is amazing, really.

GS-9 work, that I can only assume tracks non-competitively to at least 11 and probably 12, is a pretty great catch out of law school in my opinion, especially if you have debt. How many positions did you wind up applying for before you got this one? Did you live in DC at the time for interviewing convenience? Which Tier 3? Also, would you have gotten the job without the accounting classes I seem to remember you said you took?

Also, living in a hotel kind of owns unless you are paying for it. Unless they made you share a room with someone?

# ¿ May 29, 2010 22:05

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

TheMadMilkman posted:

Well, that's the part that kind of sucks about my position. GS-9 is the top non-compete grade, although bumping up to 11 wouldn't be too difficult. Currently my goal is to move to an Appeals position, which is kind of the stop between being audited and hearing from 10-8. It's legal work, and while a JD isn't required, it's recommended. I'm a little unclear on the exact promotional potential, other than the fact that a JD lets you move higher without competing. I actually applied to a few appeals positions and was considered qualified, but they very rarely take external hires. So I'm waiting out my 90 days and then applying again.

I didn't have any accounting credits, although I would recommend that anyone in college get 6 credit hours in accounting regardless of their major. I had some audit/accounting experience from working in a hotel's accounting department. I would have gotten the job without the accounting background, but I would have avoided having to take an accounting skills test as part of the interview process.

I went to the University of Memphis.

The hotel living was great. The hotel living mixed with 8 hours a day of tax training sucks. If any of you ever follow my lead and join the IRS, make drat sure you get to class early the first day and rearrange the seating to your advantage.

Also, there should be another hiring push sometime around September. Go for it, all of you.

Are you working yourself up to an attorney position? How long do you suppose that will take if so?

# ¿ May 30, 2010 00:36

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

HiddenReplaced posted:

Fun Fact: The only students who say "Ivy League law school" are the ones that go to Cornell.

Not true, Penn is also notorious for doing this when they aren't clarifying that "no, I don't mean Penn State."

# ¿ May 30, 2010 06:33

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

HiddenReplaced posted:

I've never actually met anyone from Penn Law. To me it doesn't really exist. I have interacted with someone from every T14, be it a student or an attorney, but I have not once, EVER, met ANYONE from Penn Law.

Quit bragging

# ¿ May 30, 2010 16:30

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

stingray1381 posted:

Did anyone know there was a Massachusetts School of Law?

"Fun" legal history fact: An antitrust suit by this school against the ABA (well, actually, one brought by the DOJ in conjunction with it) was the basis of the settlement agreement that forced the ABA to start accrediting for-profit law schools, even though the school itself is not for-profit.

Massachusetts School of Law is the gift that keeps on giving.

# ¿ May 31, 2010 21:34

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

Incredulous Red posted:

Sonofabitch wears suits everyday, so I have to as well. I just make sure I stay later than he does.

Not if the actual employees there don't. Actually, if they don't and he does, you almost certainly shouldn't.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2010 03:33

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

bropocalypse now posted:

I'm thinkin about applying to UF law for grad school. It probably wont be paid for but it is well regarded in the region and I might explore the option of the tax law program because it is also well regarded. I'd say I have a decent shot of getting in, but I really have no idea. Talk me out of it?

Well, the "tax law program" is an LL.M., a further graduate degree for people who already have a J.D. UF law school's tax classes are taught by the same professors, and often you will be taking them with the LLM students, but unless you're a lawyer already you can't enroll in UF's "tax law program."

That said, assuming you're a Florida resident who wants to live in and practice law in Florida, UF is easily the best choice. Very cheap, very low cost of living in Gainesville, and UF law alumni basically run the entire state, including a surprisingly large chunk of Tallahassee. Again, assuming that you're willing to keep your debt low and want to live and practice law in Florida, I'd recommend UF law even at (in-state) sticker price.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2010 19:19

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

So wait, are your parents paying for this?

# ¿ Jun 26, 2010 02:30

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

billion dollar bitch posted:

Anecdotally, one of the people in the Bronx office with me used to be a paralegal in Covington Burling and said it was absolutely brutal, but that the money was a lot better there.

So basically it's the same thing as everywhere else you go.

Also, people in my bureau work maybe 25 or 30 hours a week (the lawyers - I don't know about the staff).

Bronx firm office? Or do you mean the DA's office? I don't remember where you said you were working this summer.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2010 23:25

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

billion dollar bitch posted:

I'm in the Appeals Bureau of the Office of the District Attorney, Bronx County. It's great work, but I feel like we are churning a very small pot very quickly - much ink is spilled over such petty occasions.

I assume the ADAs in the other bureaus are working a much higher workload? Few of the ADAs/DA's office interns I've spoken with in New York offices have encountered ADAs working 40 hour-a-week schedules, and certainly not less than that.

What's the Bronx office like, by the way, in terms of organization and the morale of the ADAs, and just your general feel for the office? I've met people from all the other offices in the city but the Bronx.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2010 01:45

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

pie eating contest where the reward is horrible diarrhea

everybodys a winner

# ¿ Jul 20, 2010 02:11

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

Torpor posted:

I have my first jury trial coming up here, there are so many things to be concerned with that it's going to be hard just to focus on what I'm doing. Someone gave me some advice to stand to the side of the podium during voir dire in order to evoke a more casual and confident appearance, but I think the pee running down my legs will probably ruin the image.

God, being a lawyer is so much fun.

Criminal?

# ¿ Jul 24, 2010 01:44

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

Feces Starship posted:

earlier in this thread izzy said he was attending a "top 4" law school and i now know what it is to feel true fear in my heart if only for a moment

Haha, I thought it was just me for a minute.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2010 11:25

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

diospadre posted:

I've been to Legally Blonde: The Musical, let me tell you about all the things it got wrong

On impulse, I googled this after reading this post and I guess this is a real thing? Did you actually go to this? Serious q.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2010 21:08

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

evilweasel posted:

Just got an offer woot

Do you know any 3Ls who either worked at a firm and didn't get an offer, or who worked at non-firm jobs that either aren't in a position to make an offer yet or won't be hiring anyone next year? If so, what are they up to exactly?

# ¿ Aug 16, 2010 20:51

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

Soothing Vapors posted:

guess who has two thumbs, speaks limited french, and has a postgrad job

this moi

What kind of job?

# ¿ Aug 18, 2010 01:18

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

Lykourgos posted:

He's a grocery bagger at Carrefour

Or maybe fellowship at http://www.hippopotamus.fr/

Sky's the limit when you speak a lil french...

# ¿ Aug 18, 2010 01:19

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

So you aren't denying it then?

# ¿ Aug 18, 2010 01:24

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

Macnigore posted:

While I know for sure that n�2 is pretty much throwing jobs to interns, I don't have any info about n�1, which a much more "mature" firm, and hence might not offer interns as much

Sounds like you need to get some hiring info about firm #1. If they're much older and much larger, this shouldn't be hard to find. But yeah, unless you're withholding something huge, this doesn't really seem like a very difficult choice.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2010 14:33

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

nm posted:

Goddammit.
I have been informed that a train conductor makes about $68k/yr (this is before they get bumped to train driver which pays quite a bit more).
Requirement? Over 18. HS degree/GED. Pass a drug test. They pay you $800/mo for required schooling. Get an actual pension type thing.

Why the gently caress did I go to law school? I wanna drive trains.

So what's stopping you? poo poo, do it for AMTRAK and get your loans forgiven.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2010 03:18

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

HooKars posted:

Since I see people like 10-8 talk up things like IBR but don't know too much about it - how does this work in someone like this guy's case? If he kept that pizza job for 20 years, wouldn't he just not pay very much per month and eventually have most of the balance forgiven?

25 years, but yes.

Better to get a job as like a janitor at a middle school or something, and cut the forgiveness period to 10.

Of course the forgiveness only applies to Ford loans directly held by the Department of Education. Hope you consolidated when you graduated~~

prussian advisor fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Sep 21, 2010

# ¿ Sep 21, 2010 17:40

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

Does that person have a talking navel? Also why is she standing in a pair of flowerpots? CpnScraps youre weird...

# ¿ Sep 22, 2010 02:30

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

blar posted:

Add to the OP that doing DOJ SLIP, best intern, and stellar reviews is still not enough for the honor's program when you go to a T2.

Judging by what people here have told me, its not enough for when you go to a top 5 either, so don't feel bad.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2010 03:35

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

J Miracle posted:

Anybody applying for the PMF program, deadline is tomorrow. I know some people who were near the top at this school (TTT) who got it, so it is possible to get.

Non-legal but requires a graduate degree, work with one of the federal agencies for two years. Pay is like 60-90 and I think there's some loan forgiveness. I threw my hat in the ring. You have to apply initially early on but then there's a series of intermediate things to do until they finally pick people in spring.

I just dropped off my nomination paperwork. When you say "got it," do you mean your school's nomination, or a fellowship placement/finalist status? It seems they've added a Foreign Service Exam-esque in-person interview process to what was formerly an entirely exam-based procedure, which is a little discouraging. Have you asked people last semester what their experience was like with the test/the job fair/etc.?

# ¿ Oct 14, 2010 23:09

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

J Miracle posted:

I was thinking about emailing her some of these questions, when I get the answers I can share them here.

Please do

Also, if anyone else has participated in this process or received finalist status or a placement, please post about it.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2010 01:47

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

SWATJester posted:

A former Queens County DA went on to be the EVP of Morgan Stanley, and now is the GC and VP for Take-Two.

Nah, Seth Krauss worked for the New York County DA's office (ie Manhattan), not Queens.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure that's not typical of lateral movement out of the Manhattan DA's office either.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2010 12:47

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

CaptainScraps posted:

I tried to do something like that 1L year but a lot of people complained that since i was playing Super Punchout in LRW, they couldn't concentrate

Keyboard or a peripheral gamepad?

# ¿ Oct 17, 2010 14:43

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 12:45

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

blar posted:

I got my school's PMF nomination with no issues but you weren't kidding - they really do want an in-person assessment this year. Personal presentation, group project, and a writing assessment? Sounds excruciating.

Worst part is, I'm pretty sure this is the first-ever year they've done that, so there's no real way to prepare for it. Have you heard anything more about the process than is on the PMF's website?

# ¿ Oct 18, 2010 22:58

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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