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Carryover from the previous thread:Diospadre posted:Just checking through the requirements that the postings on usajobs list, all the IRS jobs seem to require at least 30 hours of accounting, maybe I have simply lost the ability to read? A related advanced degree (MBA, JD) will take the place of those credits. Chances are you won't be considered for a revenue agent position, since those are accounting intensive, but for a revenue officer or tax compliance officer position your law degree will qualify you. The 6 credits of accounting is basically a way to bump your qualifications over other losers. I'm a TCO and still in training, but the workload really isn't bad at all. It's glorified tax preparation. But on the first day my manager sat down with me and basically said that I was overqualified, and she didn't expect me to stick around for much more than 90 days. The better jobs (appeals officer, tax specialist, etc.) very rarely take external hires, so coming in as a RO or TCO and moving on within 6-12 months is pretty common.
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# ¿ May 7, 2010 02:43 |
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# ¿ Mar 29, 2024 09:37 |
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scribe jones posted:can you talk about the interview process a lil bit? that's the next step for me (already did the assessment for both TCO and RA), and I have no idea what to expect. just standard behavioral "tell me about a time when you" bullshit? Ha, nothing like that. If you don't have the required 6 or 12 accounting credit hours, you start with an accounting test. I had to take this, and you can learn everything you need in one night reading an accounting 100 study guide. That is graded immediately, and if you pass you then have a panel interview, either in person or by phone. There's some intro talk, like why you're interested in the position, where you want to live, etc. For the TCO position you are then asked a series of 8 standard questions, which involve some basic accounting questions, some computations, and some customer service. It's a joke and pathetically easy to pass. I was never interviewed for an RA position, so I can't comment on that one, but I imagine it's not much different. After that, you sit and wait for your conditional offer.
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# ¿ May 7, 2010 02:56 |
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:This is accurate, except I think you need above a 3.0 for your JD to get GS-9, otherwise GS-7. Then again, I'm a GS-12 after two and a half years, so it's not like promotion comes slowly when working at the fed. I had below a 3.0 and am started at GS-9. It may be different in the patent office, however.
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# ¿ May 9, 2010 21:33 |
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MaximumBob posted:10-8 is on a two week vacation and will probably never see this post. He passed a year already? How time flies...
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# ¿ May 13, 2010 05:36 |
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nm posted:yes I did say doc review twice. Having done temp doc review, I can definitively say that it is the definition of poo poo law.
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# ¿ May 24, 2010 06:10 |
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Petey posted:I promise I am not a troll. If your girlfriend wants to talk to someone who was in a similar situation and now has an actual job at a respectable organization outside of the legal industry, send me an email or PM and I will tell her (or you) why it is a bad choice to make. Add me to the list of people who managed to get non-legal work after law school. I could have gotten the exact same position, with the exact same pay, and would now have BETTER opportunities for advancement if I had taken a year to get a Masters in Accounting instead of taking 3 years to get a law degree.
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# ¿ May 28, 2010 19:13 |
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Same; with a Masters, I would be doing better at my job than if I had my JD. The JD might open some doors in two years when I make GS-14, though. So you're sitting at GS-12 right now? I can only imagine how nice that would be right now. GS-9 sucks. Thankfully, I can start applying for better positions in just over a month, and I have a manager who knows that I'm overqualified and wants to see me move on to something better. prussian advisor posted:You got the IRS position, right? I think you talked about this in the thread earlier. Can you give a little more information on applying for non-lawyer jobs with the feds as a recent law school graduate? Did you do a Presidential Management Fellowship or anything like that? Apply often and get used to rejection. Apply to lower grades than you want. Get used to seeing "qualified but not selected" emails. I started applying after the bar last July and was hired in by the IRS in April. I definitely didn't have the fellowship or anything like that. Hell, I graduated at the bottom of my class at a Tier 3 school. The fact that I found work at all is amazing, really. Anyway, I just finished up my first phase of training two days ago (living in a hotel for 5 weeks sucks), and will be doing actual work next week. I will definitely have more to report soon and plan to do so.
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# ¿ May 29, 2010 19:24 |
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prussian advisor posted:GS-9 work, that I can only assume tracks non-competitively to at least 11 and probably 12, is a pretty great catch out of law school in my opinion, especially if you have debt. How many positions did you wind up applying for before you got this one? Did you live in DC at the time for interviewing convenience? Which Tier 3? Also, would you have gotten the job without the accounting classes I seem to remember you said you took? Well, that's the part that kind of sucks about my position. GS-9 is the top non-compete grade, although bumping up to 11 wouldn't be too difficult. Currently my goal is to move to an Appeals position, which is kind of the stop between being audited and hearing from 10-8. It's legal work, and while a JD isn't required, it's recommended. I'm a little unclear on the exact promotional potential, other than the fact that a JD lets you move higher without competing. I actually applied to a few appeals positions and was considered qualified, but they very rarely take external hires. So I'm waiting out my 90 days and then applying again. I didn't have any accounting credits, although I would recommend that anyone in college get 6 credit hours in accounting regardless of their major. I had some audit/accounting experience from working in a hotel's accounting department. I would have gotten the job without the accounting background, but I would have avoided having to take an accounting skills test as part of the interview process. I went to the University of Memphis. quote:Also, living in a hotel kind of owns unless you are paying for it. Unless they made you share a room with someone? The hotel living was great. The hotel living mixed with 8 hours a day of tax training sucks. If any of you ever follow my lead and join the IRS, make drat sure you get to class early the first day and rearrange the seating to your advantage. Also, there should be another hiring push sometime around September. Go for it, all of you.
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# ¿ May 29, 2010 23:06 |
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prussian advisor posted:Are you working yourself up to an attorney position? How long do you suppose that will take if so? It's a possibility, and one that I am certainly considering. I'm supposed to meet with the chief counsel sometime soon to discuss it. From what I understand it would require at least a full year in my current position. More than anything, I can tell you that I never want to leave government employment. Sure, the money isn't as good, but leaving every day at 4:30 and knowing that you will never work a weekend in your life is priceless.
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# ¿ May 30, 2010 04:59 |
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Until January, then GS-13. Also our agency's payscale is like 10k over the DC area payscale. WHY did I shy away from a hard science major?
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# ¿ May 30, 2010 22:02 |
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Ainsley McTree posted:As far back as I can remember I always wanted to be a lawyer http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=88472366&aid=89081893-3610&WT.mc_n=125 Apply now. PM me if you need help embellishing your answers properly.
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# ¿ Jun 4, 2010 00:29 |
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Ainsley McTree posted:Went straight from college to law school, if I leave the JD off my resume I have to leave my internships off as well and then my resume basically reads "worked a lameo office job, went to college, did nothing for 4 years" Can you rephrase all of your internships to make you seem more like a paralegal than an attorney?
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# ¿ Jun 4, 2010 13:52 |
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MaximumBob posted:Dude, you're a liquid-dieting biglaw associate whose only regret is that it's impossible to bill 25 hours in a day. Who are you calling unsociable and weird? He's employed in biglaw. He can be as unsociable and weird as he wants, but will always remain on a pedestal.
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# ¿ Jun 19, 2010 09:18 |
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10-8 posted:You're getting (more) bitter. Is the IRS finally getting to you?
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# ¿ Jun 25, 2010 06:45 |
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10-8 posted:No way, I love my job. I seriously envy your job. After my next round of training in July-August I'm beginning Operation Transfer Into Counsel.
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# ¿ Jun 26, 2010 00:05 |
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Lykourgos posted:you're going to need to actually explain your point, champ, otherwise my response is "you're wrong, https://www.google.com" My, what wit.
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# ¿ Jul 6, 2010 01:57 |
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SWATJester posted:Check in the Federal Jobs thread in A/T, we have an IRS goon there. I'm in both threads! Ersatz posted:So one of my friends has a strong interest in tax law, lives in DC, and thinks she might enjoy working for the IRS. I remember some chatter earlier in the thread about open entry-level positions requiring an accounting background. She has her JD, a degree in economics, and some accounting coursework. If those positions are still open, do any of the IRS people in the thread know if that might get her in the door? Thanks in advance. When you say strong interest in tax law, what do you mean precisely? Does she want to work as an attorney, or just pursue general tax work? If it's the former, then her choice is to get into counsel. If it's the latter, there are plenty of other choices to look into.
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# ¿ Jul 8, 2010 04:43 |
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Mookie posted:gently caress in-n-out. Most overrated burger place in the history of mankind. I have never agreed with you more.
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# ¿ Jul 16, 2010 04:46 |
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By the way, if law school doesn't kill all the relationships in your life, your first job will.
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# ¿ Aug 10, 2010 02:35 |
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Ainsley McTree posted:Next thing you know I'll find a job Next major IRS TCO hiring is early next year.
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# ¿ Aug 13, 2010 04:58 |
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diospadre posted:yeah id hate to have a business with a lot of customers Yes, but see, in Lykourgos's rather distorted world view, the owner should have recognized him as a member of the gentry and offered him a table ahead of the unfortunate bourgeois that also frequent the establishment. Then he could properly spend the morning talking out his rear end and not tipping because he's above such "common nonsense" or some poo poo like that. I don't read his posts anymore.
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# ¿ Aug 15, 2010 03:39 |
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GregNorc posted:MIT. Berkley. CMU. They teach the nitty gritty too, just under a different major. CS for theoretics, IT for functional programming.
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# ¿ Aug 17, 2010 02:46 |
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Ainsley McTree posted:I didn't say for who Speaking of jobs, grab an Intro to Accounting review book or something. The IRS should have another major hiring push in the next month or so. You won't start work until March, but it's something.
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# ¿ Aug 31, 2010 03:35 |
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Ainsley McTree posted:Do you need to have some kind of educational requirement, or is there just a test or something? Turns out I still have the old announcement saved on usajobs. Wall of text begins now: quote:Qualifications: The accounting assessment, if you don't have the credits, is a joke. Buy an intro to accounting review book off of Amazon and teach it to yourself in a night or two and you should pass.
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# ¿ Aug 31, 2010 06:02 |
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Ainsley McTree posted:Interesting...interesting. I'll look into this, thanks. "I work for the Treasury." If she doesn't understand what it means, go ahead and sleep with her and never call. If she does understand, she's smart enough to figure out that you're actually a lawyer and will dump you 3 weeks later anyway. Best to move on.
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# ¿ Sep 1, 2010 04:52 |
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Deep Winter posted:Actually I can probably go here. PM me if you have any questions about reporting income. I'd answer here but I took a sick day, and there's no way in hell I'm writing anything work related on a day off.
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# ¿ Sep 30, 2010 22:27 |
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Speaking of federal employees, it's time to join the IRS! http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=91589845&aid=89081893-211010&WT.mc_n=125
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# ¿ Oct 22, 2010 00:19 |
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Ainsley McTree posted:So how's the whole accounting principles or whatever test thing work? When do you take it? Is it part of the application or do they contact you to take it some time after you apply? Things have changed a bit since I applied, but here goes. As part of the application I had to fill out KSAs (don't ask me what it stands for) where I explained how my experience and schooling prepped me for the particular job requirements. This part has apparently changed substantially. I'm not sure you even have to answer the questions anymore. After being selected from the initial applicant pool, I had to do a 2-part online evaluation. One was a multiple choice test that covered customer service or some other garbage. The second part was a java- or flash-based simulation where you would have to interpret simplified tax law and apply it to individuals that you were auditing. You also had to make sure the choices you made stayed within things like scheduling rules. After passing the simulation (and if you don't there's something wrong with you) I was called in for an interview. Because I didn't have the accounting credits I had to take an accounting skills test. I bought an Intro to Accounting review book from Borders and read through it the night before. I passed pretty easily. The actual interview involved 8 standard questions and included things like how you would prioritize work, how you would give negative news to people, and some minor mathematical work. It was stupid easy. From there I got my job offer. Definitely apply for it. If you get to the interview, send me a PM and I'll give some better advice about the accounting test.
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# ¿ Oct 22, 2010 01:39 |
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Ainsley McTree posted:Cool - so at this point, I don't need to know anything about accounting at all? I can wait for them to call me re: the next steps before I have to start studying for anything? Yes.
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# ¿ Oct 23, 2010 00:13 |
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Lemonus posted:What barriers stand in the way of removing / de-crediting some of these schools? At this point, it would take a congressional act exempting the ABA from anti-trust laws. While there is occasionally some talk about doing this, there isn't really a lobby effort in place to make it happen. Which is no surprise, because I can't think of a single organized group with a lobby arm that would directly benefit from such an exemption. I can think of plenty of organized groups (state bars, the ABA itself) that both benefit from more law schools and more aspiring lawyers and have the resources to effectively lobby congress.
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# ¿ Oct 29, 2010 06:14 |
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IM FROM THE FUTURE posted:A friends sister is spending 100k to go to a T3 lawschool in boston and plans to become a FBI agent with the degree. Aside from the obvious salary vs education cost issues, can someone clear up how retarded this plan is for me? I can find piles of information explaining how she will never sucessfully be a normal lawyer, but info on using a law degree to become an agent seems sparse. I was trying the FBI route before the IRS picked me up. I passed phase 1 without any issue, but the only reason I was even moving towards phase 2 was because of language skills (I speak Italian) and not because I was an attorney.
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# ¿ Nov 3, 2010 04:22 |
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Lilosh posted:It's not specifically about legal writing, but, just the other day, I saw this and loved it: This is something I've definitely had to deal with. I have a (non-legal) job with the IRS. The only people who like the IRS are people who work for it. I have confrontational conversations on a daily basis with people who disagree with me, and forcing myself to speak clearly and directly has really helped me. I've found that the two most important words you can say are "I disagree." Get those out there and THEN explain why.
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# ¿ Jan 24, 2011 07:13 |
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CaptainScraps posted:Law textbooks are a gigantic loving game of hide-the-ball and are meant to be more difficult than they should be so they can justify this stupid loving tradition of worthlessness. My CivPro processor decided that all textbooks were terrible, so he "created" his own, which was a binder full if cases that he personally edited. It was the epitome of worthlessness.
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# ¿ Jan 26, 2011 17:28 |
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MechaFrogzilla posted:Jesus Christ that would be the life It should be the norm, not the exception.
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# ¿ Jan 26, 2011 20:24 |
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Kinuven posted:My concern stems from the fact that despite getting a summer job I really want, my clearance might not go through in time. What level of security clearance do you need?
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# ¿ Apr 11, 2011 16:36 |
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10-8 posted:I gave serious thought to FBI a while back and was deterred by how horrible the odds are for lawyers. The FBI doesn't give a poo poo about lawyers right now. They want Middle Eastern and Asian foreign languages and computer science people. Also, when I was looking into this, I seem to recall that they wouldn't even look at you until you'd been out of school for 3 years. So presumably he'd have to make a living actually practicing law while he waits to redeem his lottery ticket. All of this matches my experience applying to the FBI. Especially the foreign language part.
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# ¿ Dec 11, 2011 08:27 |
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Roger_Mudd posted:Once in said job, acquire one single hobby and obsess over it non-stop to the point where 95% of your day is thinking/talking about said hobby. In my internship experience at a federal agency I can recommend the following hobbies: As an employee of a federal agency, I will add that every day must begin with a conversation stating what day it is, and how long until Friday.
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# ¿ Jan 29, 2012 01:37 |
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nm posted:Most mormon crim attorneys I know break the second and many break the first (also, coffee). Utah has a thriving escort/sugar daddy business as well.
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# ¿ Jan 29, 2013 07:57 |
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nm posted:I seriously wonder about lds law students. Crippling mmo addiction.
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# ¿ Sep 15, 2014 23:30 |
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# ¿ Mar 29, 2024 09:37 |
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Petey posted:At YLS for a meeting, walk by admissions office, two embittered alums are staring at it and talking about how they should have learned to code. I graduated in '09 without a job. Got a non-legal government job in '10. Started a compsci degree at community college in '11. Got a government java developer position last year. If I had done the cs associates instead of law school I would be substantially better off financially right now. But at least I'm not practicing law.
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# ¿ Sep 21, 2014 02:34 |