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TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Carryover from the previous thread:

Diospadre posted:

Just checking through the requirements that the postings on usajobs list, all the IRS jobs seem to require at least 30 hours of accounting, maybe I have simply lost the ability to read?

A related advanced degree (MBA, JD) will take the place of those credits. Chances are you won't be considered for a revenue agent position, since those are accounting intensive, but for a revenue officer or tax compliance officer position your law degree will qualify you. The 6 credits of accounting is basically a way to bump your qualifications over other losers.

I'm a TCO and still in training, but the workload really isn't bad at all. It's glorified tax preparation. But on the first day my manager sat down with me and basically said that I was overqualified, and she didn't expect me to stick around for much more than 90 days. The better jobs (appeals officer, tax specialist, etc.) very rarely take external hires, so coming in as a RO or TCO and moving on within 6-12 months is pretty common.

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TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

scribe jones posted:

can you talk about the interview process a lil bit? that's the next step for me (already did the assessment for both TCO and RA), and I have no idea what to expect. just standard behavioral "tell me about a time when you" bullshit?

Ha, nothing like that.

If you don't have the required 6 or 12 accounting credit hours, you start with an accounting test. I had to take this, and you can learn everything you need in one night reading an accounting 100 study guide. That is graded immediately, and if you pass you then have a panel interview, either in person or by phone. There's some intro talk, like why you're interested in the position, where you want to live, etc. For the TCO position you are then asked a series of 8 standard questions, which involve some basic accounting questions, some computations, and some customer service. It's a joke and pathetically easy to pass. I was never interviewed for an RA position, so I can't comment on that one, but I imagine it's not much different.

After that, you sit and wait for your conditional offer.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

This is accurate, except I think you need above a 3.0 for your JD to get GS-9, otherwise GS-7. Then again, I'm a GS-12 after two and a half years, so it's not like promotion comes slowly when working at the fed.

I had below a 3.0 and am started at GS-9. It may be different in the patent office, however.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

MaximumBob posted:

10-8 is on a two week vacation and will probably never see this post.

He passed a year already? How time flies...

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

nm posted:

yes I did say doc review twice.

Having done temp doc review, I can definitively say that it is the definition of poo poo law.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Petey posted:

I promise I am not a troll. If your girlfriend wants to talk to someone who was in a similar situation and now has an actual job at a respectable organization outside of the legal industry, send me an email or PM and I will tell her (or you) why it is a bad choice to make.

Add me to the list of people who managed to get non-legal work after law school. I could have gotten the exact same position, with the exact same pay, and would now have BETTER opportunities for advancement if I had taken a year to get a Masters in Accounting instead of taking 3 years to get a law degree.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

Same; with a Masters, I would be doing better at my job than if I had my JD. The JD might open some doors in two years when I make GS-14, though.

So you're sitting at GS-12 right now? I can only imagine how nice that would be right now. GS-9 sucks. Thankfully, I can start applying for better positions in just over a month, and I have a manager who knows that I'm overqualified and wants to see me move on to something better.

prussian advisor posted:

You got the IRS position, right? I think you talked about this in the thread earlier. Can you give a little more information on applying for non-lawyer jobs with the feds as a recent law school graduate? Did you do a Presidential Management Fellowship or anything like that?

Apply often and get used to rejection. Apply to lower grades than you want. Get used to seeing "qualified but not selected" emails.

I started applying after the bar last July and was hired in by the IRS in April. I definitely didn't have the fellowship or anything like that. Hell, I graduated at the bottom of my class at a Tier 3 school. The fact that I found work at all is amazing, really.

Anyway, I just finished up my first phase of training two days ago (living in a hotel for 5 weeks sucks), and will be doing actual work next week. I will definitely have more to report soon and plan to do so.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

prussian advisor posted:

GS-9 work, that I can only assume tracks non-competitively to at least 11 and probably 12, is a pretty great catch out of law school in my opinion, especially if you have debt. How many positions did you wind up applying for before you got this one? Did you live in DC at the time for interviewing convenience? Which Tier 3? Also, would you have gotten the job without the accounting classes I seem to remember you said you took?

Well, that's the part that kind of sucks about my position. GS-9 is the top non-compete grade, although bumping up to 11 wouldn't be too difficult. Currently my goal is to move to an Appeals position, which is kind of the stop between being audited and hearing from 10-8. It's legal work, and while a JD isn't required, it's recommended. I'm a little unclear on the exact promotional potential, other than the fact that a JD lets you move higher without competing. I actually applied to a few appeals positions and was considered qualified, but they very rarely take external hires. So I'm waiting out my 90 days and then applying again.

I didn't have any accounting credits, although I would recommend that anyone in college get 6 credit hours in accounting regardless of their major. I had some audit/accounting experience from working in a hotel's accounting department. I would have gotten the job without the accounting background, but I would have avoided having to take an accounting skills test as part of the interview process.

I went to the University of Memphis.

quote:

Also, living in a hotel kind of owns unless you are paying for it. Unless they made you share a room with someone?

The hotel living was great. The hotel living mixed with 8 hours a day of tax training sucks. If any of you ever follow my lead and join the IRS, make drat sure you get to class early the first day and rearrange the seating to your advantage.

Also, there should be another hiring push sometime around September. Go for it, all of you.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

prussian advisor posted:

Are you working yourself up to an attorney position? How long do you suppose that will take if so?

It's a possibility, and one that I am certainly considering. I'm supposed to meet with the chief counsel sometime soon to discuss it. From what I understand it would require at least a full year in my current position.

More than anything, I can tell you that I never want to leave government employment. Sure, the money isn't as good, but leaving every day at 4:30 and knowing that you will never work a weekend in your life is priceless.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

Until January, then GS-13. Also our agency's payscale is like 10k over the DC area payscale.

edit: non-compete up to GS-14 also. possibly best job in the entire federal government. read and weep

edit2: I'm going to hit the statutory salary cap soon though thanks to overtime :(

WHY did I shy away from a hard science major?

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Ainsley McTree posted:

As far back as I can remember I always wanted to be a lawyer

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=88472366&aid=89081893-3610&WT.mc_n=125

Apply now. PM me if you need help embellishing your answers properly.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Ainsley McTree posted:

Went straight from college to law school, if I leave the JD off my resume I have to leave my internships off as well and then my resume basically reads "worked a lameo office job, went to college, did nothing for 4 years"

i can stretch that out to half a page at best

Can you rephrase all of your internships to make you seem more like a paralegal than an attorney?

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

MaximumBob posted:

Dude, you're a liquid-dieting biglaw associate whose only regret is that it's impossible to bill 25 hours in a day. Who are you calling unsociable and weird?

He's employed in biglaw. He can be as unsociable and weird as he wants, but will always remain on a pedestal.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

10-8 posted:

:words:

You're getting (more) bitter. Is the IRS finally getting to you?

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

10-8 posted:

No way, I love my job.

I seriously envy your job. After my next round of training in July-August I'm beginning Operation Transfer Into Counsel.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Lykourgos posted:

you're going to need to actually explain your point, champ, otherwise my response is "you're wrong, https://www.google.com"

My, what wit.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

SWATJester posted:

Check in the Federal Jobs thread in A/T, we have an IRS goon there.

I'm in both threads!

Ersatz posted:

So one of my friends has a strong interest in tax law, lives in DC, and thinks she might enjoy working for the IRS. I remember some chatter earlier in the thread about open entry-level positions requiring an accounting background. She has her JD, a degree in economics, and some accounting coursework. If those positions are still open, do any of the IRS people in the thread know if that might get her in the door? Thanks in advance.

When you say strong interest in tax law, what do you mean precisely? Does she want to work as an attorney, or just pursue general tax work? If it's the former, then her choice is to get into counsel. If it's the latter, there are plenty of other choices to look into.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Mookie posted:

gently caress in-n-out. Most overrated burger place in the history of mankind.

I have never agreed with you more.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

By the way, if law school doesn't kill all the relationships in your life, your first job will.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Ainsley McTree posted:

Next thing you know I'll find a job

Next major IRS TCO hiring is early next year.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

diospadre posted:

yeah id hate to have a business with a lot of customers

Yes, but see, in Lykourgos's rather distorted world view, the owner should have recognized him as a member of the gentry and offered him a table ahead of the unfortunate bourgeois that also frequent the establishment. Then he could properly spend the morning talking out his rear end and not tipping because he's above such "common nonsense" or some poo poo like that. I don't read his posts anymore.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

GregNorc posted:

MIT. Berkley. CMU.

I guess what I should say is, you're learning the theory of computation. Not the nitty gritty "this is how you make websites in ruby".

They teach the nitty gritty too, just under a different major. CS for theoretics, IT for functional programming.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Ainsley McTree posted:

I didn't say for who

Speaking of jobs, grab an Intro to Accounting review book or something. The IRS should have another major hiring push in the next month or so. You won't start work until March, but it's something.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Ainsley McTree posted:

Do you need to have some kind of educational requirement, or is there just a test or something?

Turns out I still have the old announcement saved on usajobs. Wall of text begins now:

quote:

Qualifications:
Applicants at all grades must demonstrate their knowledge of Principles of Accounting. Candidates demonstrate this knowledge either through successful completion of six credit hours of college level accounting work or successfully passing an accounting assessment. If you do not pass the accounting assessment, you will be considered not qualified for the position of Tax Compliance officer.

Grade 5: To be minimally qualified for the GS-5 level, you must meet the basic
requirements below:

A. Bachelor's or higher degree in any field of study from an accredited college or university.

OR

B. At least 4 full years of progressive academic study (120 semester
hours) leading to a Bachelor's degree at an accredited college or university.

OR

C. Certificate as a Certified Public Accountant (CPA) obtained through written examination in a State, territory or the District of Columbia.

OR

D. 3 years of general experience, 1 year of which was equivalent to the GS-4 level in the Federal government. Experience must have provided a general knowledge of business practices. Such experience
may have been gained in government, business or industry, investigative work, banking, law, accounting, or other work appropriate to the position to be filled.

OR

E. A combination of experience and education at an accredited
college or university equivalent to 4 years.

Grade 7: To be minimally qualified for the GS-7 level, you must meet the basic requirements below.

A. Superior Academic Achievement - A Bachelor's degree, with one of the following: A GPA of 3.0 or higher on a 4.0 scale for all completed undergraduate courses or those completed in the last 2 years of study, or a GPA of 3.5 or higher on a 4.0 scale for all courses in the major field of study or those courses in the major completed in the last 2 years of study, or rank in the upper one third of the class in the college, university, or major subdivision, or membership in a national honor society recognized by the Association of College Honor Societies. Note: Grade point averages
should be rounded to one decimal point. For example, 2.95 is rounded
to 3.0, and 2.94 is rounded to 2.9. If more than 10percent of your undergraduate course work (credit hours) was taken on a pass/fail or
similar basis, your claim must be based on class standing or membership in an Honor Society.

OR

B. At least 1 academic year of graduate education in a field of
study such as: accounting, auditing, taxation, business administration, law, or other related fields.

OR

C. At least 1 year of specialized experience equivalent to the GS-5
level in the Federal Government that demonstrated a substantive knowledge of business practices, basic accounting principles, and
Federal tax laws and regulations; and that required the ability to
audit tax records, analyze systems and bookkeeping, use factfinding
techniques, and develop interpersonal skills.

OR

D. At least 1 year of combined graduate education and experience as
defined in paragraphs B and C above.

GRADE 9: To be minimally qualified for the GS-9, you must meet the basic requirements below.

A. Master's or equivalent graduate degree in a field of study in an
accredited college or university in accounting, auditing, taxation, business administration, law, or other related fields.

OR

B. 2 full years of progressively higher level graduate education
leading to such a degree in accounting, auditing, taxation, business
administration, law, or other related fields.

OR

C. LL.B. or J.D., if related to accounting, auditing, taxation, business administration, law, or other related fields.

OR

D. At least 1 year of specialized experience equivalent to the GS-7
level in the Federal Government. Qualifying specialized experience may have been gained in work such as:

~ Office auditing of various types of tax returns to determine tax liability of individual tax payers, businesses, or corporations.
~ Applying pertinent parts of the Internal Revenue Code and related
regulations and procedures to: (1) conduct comprehensive analytical
examinations, (2) use creative in-office factfinding techniques, and
(3) develop effective public contact skills.
~ Determination and redetermination, or audit, on liability for Federal taxes.
~ Program evaluation, internal audit or administrative management of
the assessment and collection of Federal taxes (other than alcohol and tobacco).
~ Investigating alleged criminal violations of Federal tax statutes
and making recommendations for criminal prosecution and assertion of
civil penalties.
~ Collecting delinquent Federal taxes (other than alcohol and tobacco), including canvassing for unreported taxes due, and securing
delinquent returns.

E. At least 1 year of combined graduate education and experience as described above.Qualifying education from colleges and universities in foreign
countries must be evaluated in terms of equivalency to that acquired
in U.S. colleges and universities. Applicants educated in whole or
in part in foreign countries must submit sufficient evidence,
including transcripts; to an accredited private organization for an
equivalency evaluation of course work, including grade and credit
conversion, and degree. You must provide a copy of the letter
containing the results of the equivalency evaluation as supporting
documentation. Failure to provide such documentation when requested
will result in lost consideration.
Requirements:
Male applicants born after December 31, 1959, must certify at the
time of appointment that they have registered with the Selective
Service System, or are exempt from having to do so under Selective
Service law.

- Required to submit fingerprint cards as part of the pre-employment
process.
- Required to provide information to complete a thorough background
investigation.
- Subject to the requirement of the U.S. Department of the Treasury
to undergo an income tax verification and post-employment tax audit.
- Required to possess or obtain a valid driver's license, for
positions in which operating a motor vehicle is essential to
efficient performance of assigned work.

MANDATORY TRAINING: During the first year, all applicants selected for these positions will receive approximately 1 week of orientation, 10 weeks of classroom training and 40 weeks of on-the-job training. Overnight travel may be required for both orientation and classroom training, while on-the-job training is generally provided in the employee's post of duty. The training program consists of alternating periods of classroom and on-the-job training.

Travel for this position is often confined to the local area. However, overnight travel could exceed 25%.

How You Will Be Evaluated:
For each geographic location included in this vacancy announcement, applicants will be scheduled in groups of 50 for assessments, interview, or referral for selection consideration based on the date and time the application is received. Applications will continue to be processed in groups of 50 as long as vacancies remain for specific geographic location.

If you are eligible and qualified for this position based upon your responses to the application questions, and are within reach of consideration based on the date and time you applied, you may receive electronic information directing you to the assessment process. You will only receive this information if we are potentially hiring from this announcement in your location preference indicated. This electronic information will include directions for accessing the assessment website and an user log-in. You will be required to complete the on-line Tax Compliance Officer Self Assessment (TCO-SA). The TCO-SA is a series of questions designed to measure the competencies required for successful job performance. The TCO-SA takes about 30 minutes to complete. If you do not pass the TCO-SA, you will be considered Not Qualified for the position. If you pass the TCO-SA, you will also be asked to complete an on-line job simulation. The on-line simulation takes about 1 hour to complete. If you do not pass the on line job simulation, you will be considered Not Qualified for the position of Tax Compliance Officer. If you pass both assessment instruments, you will be placed into one of the three tentative category group (A, B, C) based upon your results. Each category group represents a quality level. Category A is the highest and Category C being the lowest.

Candidates will be considered for an interviewed in category order. Candidates who fail the interview will be considered not qualified for the position of Tax Compliance Officer.

Qualified veterans who claim preference based on a compensable service-connected disability of 30% or more (CPS), and those with a compensable service-connected disability of 10% but less that 30%(CP) move from their assigned category group to the top of the highest category group (A) and will be provided absolute preference over non-preference eligibles. All other preference eligibles (XP and TP)will be provided absolute preference over non-preference eligibles within their assigned category group (A, B, or C). To pass over any qualified preference eligible(s) to select a non-preference eligible requires approval under formal objection procedures.

Note: You may be "tentatively" assigned to a category group pending qualifications validation and assessment results. Final category assignment does not occur until referral on a certificate.

Costs incurred (i.e. travel, etc. to and from the interview site) are not reimbursable by the IRS.

NOTE: Your assessments (including on line assessments and interviews)
scores are good for an indefinite period of time. You will only be allowed to take the assessments once in a 12-month period. If you choose to retake the assessments after 12 months, your most current
score will be used.

Competencies measured by the assessment process include:

Mathematical Reasoning: Solves practical problems by choosing appropriately from a variety of mathematical and statistical techniques.

Self-Management: Sets well-defined and realistic personal goals; displays a high level of initiative, effort, and commitment towards completing assignments in a timely manner; works with minimal supervision; is motivated to achieve; demonstrates responsible behavior.

Technology Application: Uses machines, tools, or equipment effectively; uses computers and computer applications to analyze and communicate information in the appropriate format.

Conflict Management: Manages and resolves conflict, grievances, confrontations or disagreements in a constructive manner to minimize negative personal impact.

Principles of Accounting: Knowledge of the basic concepts of financial analysis and recording (e.g., the full accounting Cycle,
preparation of work sheets, financial statements, ledgers, and journals).

Decision Making: Makes sound, well-informed, and objective decisions;
perceives the impact and implications of decisions; commits to action, even in uncertain situations, to accomplish organizational goals; causes change.

Integrity/Honesty: Contributes to maintaining the integrity of the
organization; displays high standards of ethical conduct and understands the impact of violating these standards on an organization, self, and others; is trustworthy.

Influencing/Negotiating: Persuades others to accept recommendations,
cooperate, or change their behavior; works with others towards an agreement; negotiates to find mutually acceptable solutions.

Interpersonal Skills: Shows understanding, courtesy, tact, empathy,
concern; develops & maintains relationships; may deal with people who
are difficult, hostile, distressed; relates well to people from
varied backgrounds & situations; is sensitive to individual differences.

Oral Communications: Expresses information (for example, ideas or facts) to individuals or groups effectively, taking into account the audience and nature of the information (for example, technical, sensitive, controversial); makes clear and convincing oral presentations; listens to others, attends to nonverbal cues, and
responds appropriately.

Planning and Evaluating: Organizes work, sets priorities, determines
resource requirements; determines short- or long- term goals and strategies to achieve them; coordinates with other organizations or
parts of the organization; monitors progress, evaluates outcomes.

Problem Solving: Identifies problems; determines accuracy and relevance of information; uses sound judgment to generate and evaluate alternatives, and to make recommendations.

Stress Tolerance: Deals calmly and effectively with high stress
situations (for example, tight deadlines, hostile individuals, emergency situations, dangerous situations).To preview questions please click here.

The accounting assessment, if you don't have the credits, is a joke. Buy an intro to accounting review book off of Amazon and teach it to yourself in a night or two and you should pass.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Ainsley McTree posted:

Interesting...interesting. I'll look into this, thanks.

Though I do wonder if "I'm an accountant for the IRS" is a bigger getting laid repellent than "I'm unemployed"

"I work for the Treasury." If she doesn't understand what it means, go ahead and sleep with her and never call. If she does understand, she's smart enough to figure out that you're actually a lawyer and will dump you 3 weeks later anyway. Best to move on.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Deep Winter posted:

Actually I can probably go here. :downs:

PM me if you have any questions about reporting income. I'd answer here but I took a sick day, and there's no way in hell I'm writing anything work related on a day off.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Speaking of federal employees, it's time to join the IRS!

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=91589845&aid=89081893-211010&WT.mc_n=125

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Ainsley McTree posted:

So how's the whole accounting principles or whatever test thing work? When do you take it? Is it part of the application or do they contact you to take it some time after you apply?

Also, how much time does it take to study for it and what do you use to do that

Things have changed a bit since I applied, but here goes.

As part of the application I had to fill out KSAs (don't ask me what it stands for) where I explained how my experience and schooling prepped me for the particular job requirements. This part has apparently changed substantially. I'm not sure you even have to answer the questions anymore.

After being selected from the initial applicant pool, I had to do a 2-part online evaluation. One was a multiple choice test that covered customer service or some other garbage. The second part was a java- or flash-based simulation where you would have to interpret simplified tax law and apply it to individuals that you were auditing. You also had to make sure the choices you made stayed within things like scheduling rules.

After passing the simulation (and if you don't there's something wrong with you) I was called in for an interview. Because I didn't have the accounting credits I had to take an accounting skills test. I bought an Intro to Accounting review book from Borders and read through it the night before. I passed pretty easily.

The actual interview involved 8 standard questions and included things like how you would prioritize work, how you would give negative news to people, and some minor mathematical work. It was stupid easy.

From there I got my job offer. Definitely apply for it. If you get to the interview, send me a PM and I'll give some better advice about the accounting test.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Ainsley McTree posted:

Cool - so at this point, I don't need to know anything about accounting at all? I can wait for them to call me re: the next steps before I have to start studying for anything?

I'm clearly very qualified for this position I don't know why they wouldn't call me

Yes.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Lemonus posted:

What barriers stand in the way of removing / de-crediting some of these schools?

At this point, it would take a congressional act exempting the ABA from anti-trust laws. While there is occasionally some talk about doing this, there isn't really a lobby effort in place to make it happen. Which is no surprise, because I can't think of a single organized group with a lobby arm that would directly benefit from such an exemption. I can think of plenty of organized groups (state bars, the ABA itself) that both benefit from more law schools and more aspiring lawyers and have the resources to effectively lobby congress.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

IM FROM THE FUTURE posted:

A friends sister is spending 100k to go to a T3 lawschool in boston and plans to become a FBI agent with the degree. Aside from the obvious salary vs education cost issues, can someone clear up how retarded this plan is for me? I can find piles of information explaining how she will never sucessfully be a normal lawyer, but info on using a law degree to become an agent seems sparse.

I was trying the FBI route before the IRS picked me up. I passed phase 1 without any issue, but the only reason I was even moving towards phase 2 was because of language skills (I speak Italian) and not because I was an attorney.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Lilosh posted:

It's not specifically about legal writing, but, just the other day, I saw this and loved it:

http://www.wimp.com/speaktypography/

It's a condemnation of the hesitant, wishy-washy, and unsure way we speak in recent years.

This is something I've definitely had to deal with. I have a (non-legal) job with the IRS. The only people who like the IRS are people who work for it. I have confrontational conversations on a daily basis with people who disagree with me, and forcing myself to speak clearly and directly has really helped me. I've found that the two most important words you can say are "I disagree." Get those out there and THEN explain why.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

CaptainScraps posted:

Law textbooks are a gigantic loving game of hide-the-ball and are meant to be more difficult than they should be so they can justify this stupid loving tradition of worthlessness.

My CivPro processor decided that all textbooks were terrible, so he "created" his own, which was a binder full if cases that he personally edited. It was the epitome of worthlessness.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

MechaFrogzilla posted:

Jesus Christ that would be the life

It should be the norm, not the exception.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Kinuven posted:

My concern stems from the fact that despite getting a summer job I really want, my clearance might not go through in time.

What level of security clearance do you need?

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

10-8 posted:

I gave serious thought to FBI a while back and was deterred by how horrible the odds are for lawyers. The FBI doesn't give a poo poo about lawyers right now. They want Middle Eastern and Asian foreign languages and computer science people. Also, when I was looking into this, I seem to recall that they wouldn't even look at you until you'd been out of school for 3 years. So presumably he'd have to make a living actually practicing law while he waits to redeem his lottery ticket.

All of this matches my experience applying to the FBI. Especially the foreign language part.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Roger_Mudd posted:

Once in said job, acquire one single hobby and obsess over it non-stop to the point where 95% of your day is thinking/talking about said hobby. In my internship experience at a federal agency I can recommend the following hobbies:

1) stamp collecting
2) coin collecting
3) salsa dancing
4) the art of "story telling" as a cultural and artistic expression
5) the 1970's Detroit beast you've restored
6) good places to eat and know their busy and light days
7) grandchildren

As an employee of a federal agency, I will add that every day must begin with a conversation stating what day it is, and how long until Friday.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

nm posted:

Most mormon crim attorneys I know break the second and many break the first (also, coffee).

Utah has a thriving escort/sugar daddy business as well.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

nm posted:

I seriously wonder about lds law students.

Crippling mmo addiction.

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TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Petey posted:

At YLS for a meeting, walk by admissions office, two embittered alums are staring at it and talking about how they should have learned to code.

I graduated in '09 without a job. Got a non-legal government job in '10. Started a compsci degree at community college in '11. Got a government java developer position last year.

If I had done the cs associates instead of law school I would be substantially better off financially right now. But at least I'm not practicing law.

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