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I've seen a lot of people in this thread (well, the last one) say "so what if I can't get a biglaw job, I'll just get a job with a district attorney, public defender, ACLU, international law panda" These jobs are loving hard to get. Combine the overload of law students with the crunch of public budgets, and the only way you're getting a job if someone dies. Find one of those spots? Good luck. DA and PD offices don't care about where you went to law school, they care about how much experience you have, and it needs to be local experience. Did you work for a PDs office in state X for years in LS? In state Y no one cares, even if you have trial experience. Did you go to UVA, work in the federal defender's honors program and want a job in CA? Have fun not being hired because a non-accredited law grad who look 5 times to pass the bar worked for free at a nearby PDs office. PD and DA jobs only come to those who are willing to work for free for a few months after you pass the bar these days. Most postings for entry level DA/PD positions are kind of shams to let the free help get jobs. You will never beat the guy they know and wanted to hire anyway. Finally, the hiring people have a pretty good idea of who is actually interested in criminal law and who is interested in civil. Did you do your 2L year at civil firm? Rejected. No clinics/internships at DA/PD offices? Rejected. They feel wrong about you? Rejected. If you want a DA/PD office job, you need to start by the beginning of your 2L year (if not before) in the state you want to work in. It isn't a backup job. Oh and civil law sucks.
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May 8, 2010 02:55
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JudicialRestraints posted:I'm paying $260 a month with utilities included. Do you have roommates or something? I mean that sounds low even for madison.
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May 8, 2010 03:24
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J Miracle posted:I just changed my summer class from Evidence to Law and Literature because I just do not give a gently caress
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May 8, 2010 04:04
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Mr. Fictitious posted:I took the hardest exam I've ever taken in my life this afternoon. It was about soap. The whole thing was about soap.
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May 8, 2010 04:06
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J Miracle posted:Evidence is a required class here so I'll still take it next year I just didn't want to take a 4-credit class compressed into half the time(meaning 2 3-hour classes a week with 60-90 pages of reading per class). If this is true, take the evidence class over the summer (esp if Cribari is taking it). You will thank me later. If you don't, for others who might: Take Cribari's summer evidence course. You'll get an "A," you'll learn the gently caress out of evidence, and because the class is small he can write you a real letter of recommendation.
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May 8, 2010 04:58
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They're making you pay to walk? They didn't make our year. Useful courses I took in law school: Evidence (Though it is not as useful as you might think as those federal rules don't matter much at the state level) Physical Evidence Wrongful convictions Trial Practice Advanced Trial Practice Maybe my moot court (dunno if that counts) Maybe crimpro I sense a theme here. (Civil law courses are stupid)
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May 8, 2010 06:14
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The most important part of graduation is getting drunk with your friends though.
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May 8, 2010 06:17
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BigHead posted:Yup we're being charged.
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May 8, 2010 06:17
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stingray1381 posted:Don't know if this has been posted ... DA or PD gets $50-98k out of law school depending on location ($98k is SF) with an average of 70-80k. Mid-law here is $80-100k with a bit more in SF/LA (These firms are actually hiring as well) So there are plenty of 80k jobs out here. I can't imagine NYC pays much less than CA's non-SF firms.
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May 8, 2010 23:37
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Draile posted:Well, a starting position in a NYC DA's office pays about 50-54k depending on borough. As expensive as SF is I doubt cost of living is nearly double New York's. You'll make that or more in east jesus nowhere, CA where you can buy a palace for $250k. So yeah, don't move to New York. (Don't move to CA either, no jobs). Hell, Minneapolis pays $50ishk out of LS. stingray1381 posted:Not trying to be a dick, but I would love to see some actual job postings that reflect these numbers. The DA and PD numbers you note are particularly unbelieveable. http://www.jobaps.com/SF/specs/classspecdisplay.asp?ClassNumber=8177&R1=undefined&R3=undefined Yes, that is Attorney I. There is a catch: It isn'tt civil service (at will, which can be bad if you're expensive and it is crunch time), and it isn't exactly easy to get in. Sacramento PD just bumped starting salaries to $88k, but that is all in theory as they are not hiring (in fct, they are laying off). Santa Clara DA has an opening starting at $92k -- entry level: http://www.governmentjobs.com/view_job.cfm?JobID=225587&hit_count=Yes& Worth noting: DA and PD are paid the same in CA, so do county council though an "entry-level" county council job generally requires experience. Also worth noting if you actually get any of these jobs you've worked for free for a bit somewhere in CA. nm fucked around with this message at 09:59 on May 9, 2010 |
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May 9, 2010 09:49
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7StoryFall posted:CA is also going broke, if it isn't already. I wouldn't be surprised if these positions get some sort of salary cut, eventually. Then again, since it's California... maybe not. You shouldn't move out here for these jobs, the market is fairly saturated.
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May 10, 2010 04:02
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mrtoodles posted:Yeah. Although nm says it's even higher now. I dunno about that. It's still a bunch of money for a pretty damned fun job. I am 3-0 in my last three trials.
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May 11, 2010 01:50
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JudicialRestraints posted:!!!! Wow, hell has frozen over.
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May 11, 2010 05:14
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JudicialRestraints posted:All real schools exempt you from that poo poo. Have fun with that. Incredulous Red posted:I remember our property discussions, and frankly you guys have some weird poo poo up there in the frozen north that you call "the law" Everything must have cheese No speeding tickets for 'sconies. 2x speeding tickets for FIBs. Beer on Sunday (what up!) Fireworks DUIs are not crimes You can only marry your sister if you live north of Dane County. No.loving.Margarine. That is all of them. nm fucked around with this message at 04:52 on May 13, 2010 |
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May 13, 2010 04:48
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JudicialRestraints posted:Hunting 'accidents' involving out of state 'tourists' are acceptable, understandable and will not be thoroughly investigated. edit: Forgot the dead guys were cheeseheads.
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May 13, 2010 05:14
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MN only wishes its system sucked as much as it did in CA (or WI, WI SOC is hilarious) So I have another 148 (resisting arrest/order of police officer) Guy didn't step out of his vehicle when ordered. He was then dragged out of the vehicle and tazed. I wasn't sure how legit this was until they rolled my client out into the court room. Yeah, he's missing a leg. Oh this trial will be fun. nm fucked around with this message at 05:31 on May 14, 2010 |
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May 14, 2010 05:29
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CaptainScraps posted:Is there a motion I can file where I can get a judicial order proclaiming opposing counsel is a fuckface?
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May 15, 2010 00:37
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HooKars posted:It's my birthday tomorrow. You guys can just send cash. /Birthday buddy! mrtoodles posted:I had one with a guy who is physically disabled. When talking to cops, he was not aggressive, but sounding a bit crazy. Cops decide to 5150 and ask him to get on his knees so they can cuff him. As he's explaining that he is physically unable to lower himself onto his knees they shoot him with a Taser. I have another 148. PC was an empty plastic bag. Completely empty. No drugs, no residue. Empty, per the drat cops. A colleague of mine had this 148: Guy (client) and his buddy are at a bar. Walk out of a bar and buddy bumps into someone else. Buddy gets pissed and tries to fight the guy. Guy (the client) is holding the buddy back. Cops roll by. Taze the buddy. His head gets cracked open as he falls. 148, 647f (speaking of bullshit), 242 Not guilty. There is some justice in the world. We;ve been doing pretty good, last few weeks: NG Attempt murder, that case, and a 11550. I wish i could claim one of those. CaptainScraps posted:I'm advertising for a legal assistant to highlight stuff for me today on facebook. Paid internship. But you gotta be top 20% or on law review. nm fucked around with this message at 06:48 on May 16, 2010 |
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May 16, 2010 06:36
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CaptainScraps posted:Oh, I know. That statement was firmly tongue-in-cheek considering I'm a 3L (now).
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May 16, 2010 07:20
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mrtoodles posted:Now 4-0 in last 4 trials. Get crackin' buddy.
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May 17, 2010 03:19
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The taco place near where I work makes their own tortillas for the tacos. MMMMMM.
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May 19, 2010 00:51
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Roger_Mudd posted:Everyone should come down to Texas, you can get real BBQ (mesquite), real Tex-Mex, and real Mexican food... just saying. Moving further south: Papusas are also amazing
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May 19, 2010 01:22
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CaptainScraps posted:Moving further south: penguins are pretty greasy.
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May 19, 2010 01:34
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Ainsley McTree posted:Doesn't say. She lives in Cambridge, so maybe it's harvard but I feel like if you go to harvard that's a thing you brag about in your okcupid profile so I bet it's suffolk Jump on that train If she makes it, marry her and take the biglaw money and pay off your debt If not, find someone who went to Yale.
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May 19, 2010 03:44
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Ainsley McTree posted:I am a licensed lawyer so by the laws of lawyer-dating she does have to go out with me even if I am an unemployed alky loser. This is just crazy enough to work I mean, just because your practice has 1 client (your grandma and her will), doesn't mean it can't be a firm.
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May 19, 2010 03:50
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Abugadu posted:Good theory. Here, I've compiled a list of every Harvard Law student or graduate who is reluctant to tell people they go/went to Harvard Law: They do exist. They're also older and rich so they just go with old and rich.
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May 19, 2010 04:37
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Public Defender chat: Court furlough day, so I'm home and indulging in something horrible. COPS. This is like watching a horror film, yelling at the screen: "NO DON'T CONSENT TO THAT SEARCH!" Seriously, when the cop says "You are free to leave," why don't people leave?
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May 19, 2010 22:46
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Caligula Caesar posted:Ainsley, what law school did you go to? Did I miss this somewhere along the line, or is it a closely guarded secret? Northeastern, I think. I could have told you that was a bad choice, my uncle almost got kicked out of northeastern years ago for taking pills. They were malaria pills because e'd just moved there from Pakistan. 
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May 19, 2010 22:50
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Alaemon posted:Other points of similarity between criminal law and horror movies: Seriously, you have cocaine sitting in a bag in the cupholder, the cop has told you you are free to go and then asks, "you don't mind if I search your vehicle do you?" What part of you makes you say, "no, I don't mind." Though if everyone refused the search, I might not have anything to do but 14601s (driving after suspension)
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May 19, 2010 23:40
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TyChan posted:Unless you're completely trained about the applicable law or a complete sociopath, most people will default to their lifelong conditioning to obey authority. Cops can take a huge advantage of that. Especially if you're in an ethnic minority or if you're from a really downtrodden and marginalized area, you're taught early on that simple questions from cops are often not really simple questions. There's often a fear there that causes you to say "how high." Anything illegal in your car? No weapons? Then you don't mind if I search your car? But it still amazes me. Also maddening is when people confess. People think they're hosed and can't lose anything by confessing well before that point. I had a guy who was accused breaking into a common area shared by 4 tenants. The police only interviewed 1 tenant who said he didn't have their permission. We had reasonable doubt until the jackass confessed to sneaking in. Fun fact though: ICE does not Mirandize anyone. If you have a client who was questioned about a crime (besides simple immigration violations) while in ICE custody, statement is out. Got a false document charge tossed based on that. nm fucked around with this message at 00:35 on May 20, 2010 |
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May 20, 2010 00:32
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Phil Moscowitz posted:dude cops is the best sitcom on TV, you're watching it all wrong
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May 20, 2010 01:15
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Phil Moscowitz posted:my advice to clients is not to drive around with drugs in their car Well how am I supposed to get them to the school so I can sell crack to 8 year olds?
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May 20, 2010 03:44
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:How the gently caress is a K9 search not a search anyway? Which justice is the genius that thought up that rule? Note that they cannot detain you only to wait for the dog to get there. Courts have even tossed cases where it has taken what was obviously way to long to write a ticket (1 hr for a minor traffic infraction)
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May 20, 2010 05:10
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Lykourgos posted:Received a phone call this morning; Chicago just got one more prosecutor! Enjoy persecuting black people and getting Mexicans deported. My way of saying congrats evilweasel posted:Anyone have any tips on being a summer associate? 2. Leave after the partners 3. Volunteer for more work and jump at the opportunity to do more 4. Do not buy booze on the company account unless specifically authorized. 5. Never ever get drunk at firm events or with firm employees 6. Work your loving rear end off You're there to get noticed (in a good way), not to have fun. nm fucked around with this message at 05:25 on May 21, 2010 |
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May 21, 2010 05:22
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BigHead posted:c) Anyone who graduates without a job offer may as well not waste time on the bar exam because he doesn't know of a single private firm hiring outside of summer associate programs. I added that I don't know a single (of the very few I know) public sector positions open to recent graduates who haven't clerked. Graduated last year have a job. Be prepared to work for free for a bit, maybe longer next year. Seriously, life is not over if you pass the bar and have no job IF you have the ability to work for free at a PD/DA/county atty for ~6mo. Working in poo poo law for 6 months may tank your resume. Sitting around until you get a job will hurt. Working in a PD/DA/county attorney (even for free) is a good thing on your resume because you get real experience. And these offices need labor, they just can't afford to pay you. they'll give you good work too, you'll have more jury trials in 6 months than the managing partner at your civil firm. If you can't afford to work for free for a decent period though, hope you get into yale, went to a T14 and did extremely well, or take the FSOT. Working doc review will kill you. ---- Also, 1Ls becoming 2Ls this summer, in August focus on mid-law. They're coming back. Local larger mid-firm (100-150 lawyers) I know a lot of people in is having an good year (they hired 13 3Ls last year). Companies are ditching biglaw for midlaw because they charge lower rates and do just as good work. These companies are also more likely to show you loyalty (not syaing they will, just more likely) as it is harder to lay-off Fred two doors down who just had a kid than 20 people in our LA office, 15 people at our Seattle Office, etc. You'll still make 6 figure or near. What's funny is that as T1 grads here bitch about unemployment, this firm and a number like them would have loved to have you. (No, they didn't want your TTT rear end though) People just don't notice them. Also, the only real way into these firms is to go through a 2L program (or have 3-5 years of quality experience), so you gotta start early. (The above does not mean you should go to lawschool unless you want to and can work for free or get into yale) nm fucked around with this message at 04:32 on May 24, 2010 |
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May 24, 2010 04:09
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entris posted:Got my spring grades today. Got an A+ in my advanced wealth transfer tax course. I was the only person to get that grade in the class, and the professors are adjuncts who work at Venable and Baker Hostetler. I am walking on air right now. (I wish I could have gotten A+s)
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May 24, 2010 04:22
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CaptainScraps posted:What qualifies as poo poo law? yes I did say doc review twice.
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May 24, 2010 04:43
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subjectnamehere posted:Just locked down a summer position at the Los Angeles City Attorney's Office. It was promised to me in February if I didn't get the other position I applied for. Finally got her to follow through on it. Applebee123 posted:I think the problem with doc review is you are doomed to not find anything better, at least with small law firms you might actually pick up on whatever area of law you are practicing and be able to move firms or go solo. You can't go solo in doc review and there aren't any better paying jobs in it either. You aren't even learning anything in doc review.
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May 24, 2010 07:20
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The Warp posted:She's wondering who the gently caress you guys are and where are all the unemployed lawyers you're talking about? She thinks that's there's no harm in going to Western State because she'll get her JD and pass the bar exam like every other lawyer, that they all learn the same damned material and they offered her a really huge scholarship. She thinks that you guys are just saying that she won't have a house by the beach or a cushy corporate firm, but I don't think she understands that it's more dire than that. I am a practicing lawyer in the State of California. I have a real bar card and everything (I STILL don't have business cards, slow, cheap office). She is welcome to call me, and I will tell her not to go. 100% serious. PM me. She can even call me at my PD office so she knowns I'm a real lawyer, not a troll. I will then pass the phone to my other colleagues who will argue even stronger that she should not go. nm fucked around with this message at 03:16 on May 28, 2010 |
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May 28, 2010 03:13
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Zikan posted:Thankfully this thread has completely turned me off from the idea of going to law school. However I was too late to save some of my friends. One is going to Stetson University College of Law and I weep for her and what she has gotten herself into. If you are top 10-15% of the day class or top 25-30% of the night class you can likely get a job with one of these firms. The networking is strong. If you can stand unemployment for a bit and can work for free, you can likely get good experience that will land you a decent job in the long term if you don't suck and are in the top 50%. You'll be buried in debt. If you don't want to work in the Sacramento/Central Valley or northern Nevada (McGeorge is the unofficial lawschool of northern Nevada), you'll regret it. (Don't go to law school, but if you do you could do much worse than McGeorge. You could also do much, much better) nm fucked around with this message at 04:58 on May 29, 2010 |
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May 29, 2010 04:56
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