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HiddenReplaced posted:Also, I just finished my paper for my Military Justice class. How did you like the class? I wish we'd had one at Loyola. I ended up just doing a lot of papers on military aspects of whatever law we were studying in my electives. Also, looking like I won't be heading to Charlottesville for JAG school until early next year! 
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May 7, 2010 14:49
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THE MACHO MAN posted:I just want a drat answer so I can just decide if I'm going to go already Is anything we say really going to convince you *not* to go? I went to Loyola Chicago, almost exactly the same USNWR rank as Rutgers and in probably the second or third largest legal market in the country. Like Rutgers, Loyola has been called a "strong regional school". I was just sworn in to practice law on Thursday. At the swearing in, I saw about a half-dozen classmates; winter grads, February bar exam, so a small sample size, to be sure. Still, not a single one of them, myself included, has secured legal employment. I got lucky as gently caress and was selected for JAG, but that doesn't start for nearly a year and certainly isn't a career path most have in mind when considering law school. I just looked at my Facebook for reference. I have ~40 Facebook friends that are law school classmates, class of '09 or '10. Of those, 4 have jobs at medium-large law firms, one is a PD in California, one lucked into Doc Review temp work, 2 are current/future JAG, 1 works as a paralegal in the firm that swore up and down they'd make her an attorney when she finished law school and passed the bar. EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON is unemployed or working in some job completely unrelated to law including (but not necessarily limited to) Clerk at Whole Foods, Bartender (2), Landscaper, and "Sales". Nothing wrong with those jobs at all, as long as you haven't wasted three years of your life and several dozen G's to get there. I know how you feel, I was you in Spring 2006. Elated that a few of the schools I had chosen accepted me, weighing my options, figuring out who would give me the most bang for my buck, who was more "prestigious". It was an exciting time. But the advice I'm giving you now applied to me then as well and at least then I had the economy in my favor. Don't go unless the whole thing is paid for, or you're going to be sorry. I can virtually guarantee it. e: And for the record, nobody is going to pay you to do "environmental law", except huge corporations might if you help them destroy it. But then again they usually only want people who've done a few years at a Vault firm and have a decent pedigree. Rutgers is not that pedigree. You'll be hustling outside the courtroom for misdemeanor defense and slip-and-falls, and that's IF you have the brass balls and the malpractice insurance to get out there on your own. Defleshed fucked around with this message at 04:26 on May 9, 2010 |
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May 9, 2010 04:23
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THE MACHO MAN posted:I've been working full time for six years almost, so I'm basically trying to get a better job (journalism). Not totally grasping at straws yet! I was always moderately interested in law, and figured I'd give it a try. I just don't have much of an interest in grad school and that's really the only other option besides law for a stupid poo poo English degree. So basically your only reasons for going to law school are "to get a better job" and "my undergrad is poo poo". Hahaha, you basically ARE me. I'm not trying to be a dick, but you should not go to law school. Here, read this little tidbit from the organization that's helped orchestrate the downfall and is only now jumping on board years too late: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/as_troubling_indicators_mount_for_2010_law_grads_an_aba_expert_issues_a_war If the field you are in now depresses or bores you, imagine spending huge amounts of money and 3 years of your life to earn a specialized degree and then be completely locked out of that specialized profession. Once you earn that JD, you can't even go back to your old life because the general public are blathering morons who assume that a JD is a golden ticket. That means nobody will give you a job doing what you used to do, because you have a JD. Since you have a JD and are applying for a non-legal job, you either must be so incompetent that you were unable to secure one of the six-figure jobs falling from the trees for all law school grads, or you're merely waiting for the RIGHT six-figure job to fall into your lap and you will leave them in a lurch. You may think your professional life sucks right now but at least you have a job, and Sallie Mae isn't beating down your door. To top that off, say all your wildest dreams come true and Rutgers shoots to #1 in the rankings and you're offered a cushy associate job at the whitest white-shoe firm in NYC. Well say hello to 80 hour work weeks, sleeping at the office, lusting after the 40-something paralegal with the limp, alcoholism, and a slow descent into depression and social isolation. Yeah, the brass ring of our profession is hardly a prize worth working toward. Of course I generalize and there are certainly happy well-adjusted people who are partners at law firms. I've just never met one. I know those aren't the answers or encouragement you are looking for, but it is the truth. You should listen to your friend who is trying to talk you out of it. She has some sense. I don't know *what* the answer to dissatisfaction with your chosen career and a relatively worthless undergraduate degree is, try taking up metal-detecting or parasailing or bear wrestling... but for God's sake do not go to law school. Defleshed fucked around with this message at 20:03 on May 10, 2010 |
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May 10, 2010 19:31
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TheAttackSlug posted:Got paying job for 2L summer at prosecutors. Congratulations, what sort of work will you be doing?
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May 12, 2010 14:33
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CALI Awards are the most useless thing ever. I still put my 2 on my resume though hahaha (one I got in a class that only had 3 people in it)
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May 12, 2010 18:23
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Ok so newb lawyer question here: Do I need to sue the insurance company of the guy who hit my wife's car (since they declined to pay us to fix the damage) or do I just sue the guy himself and let him worry about his insurance company and what they do? I feel like I know the answer is to just sue the guy, but I want to make sure before I go ahead and do that. Solo Huckster Chat ITT
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May 13, 2010 15:30
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Roger_Mudd posted:Also see if your state has any sort of Stowers demand available. Nice, thanks for this tip. Gonna ask an old adjunct prof of mine who ambulance chases and see if we have anything like this in Illinois. e: This claim is for like $1500. They might as well just settle, really. Defleshed fucked around with this message at 18:29 on May 13, 2010 |
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May 13, 2010 18:21
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7StoryFall posted:I can't wait to do this... StarCraft 2 can't come out soon enough. If you aren't playing video games throughout law school you are doing law school wrong. I was known to sometimes login to WoW during Torts.
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May 14, 2010 00:16
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We have a Swede reading the thread, he/she should be able to direct us in praying the dark and ancient gods forgotten by time. All the Scandinavians are blasphemous heathens.
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May 14, 2010 14:50
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Secret Asian Man posted:does anyone ever actually drop out though my 1L year I took my CivPro exam sitting next to a dude who reeked so bad of booze that I could barely concentrate. I never saw him again after that, hemust have either dropped out or transferred to Yale. (I got a B)
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May 14, 2010 18:02
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JudicialRestraints posted:Someone I hate is working as a summer clerk for Army JAG (1L) Worked for a law school friend of mine. I mean, he's a JAG now. That's pretty much the only job it could turn out to be for them.
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May 14, 2010 20:25
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Blinkz0rz posted:His assumption was that because a person didn't fit his initial profile of a person who would make it into a T14 school, there must be some other mitigating factor. That could be true. He could be a legacy, or famous, or any number of other things that might make this T14's admissions department choose him over someone else. But ewr2870 went with the guy being a URM. Yeah because it is much more likely that the guy was Johnny Depp or that his dad was on the board of admissions than that he was a URM and the T14 cut him a break.  It's a pretty statistically safe assumption and really is just an acknowledgment of a policy that admits based on race without any value judgment passed on that policy. That "you know a number of people who" blah blah blah doesn't change the fact that those who get into a T14 with demonstrably lower grades or test scores are generally going to have the URM factor in their corner as opposed to being famous or influential, or whatever. It's not racist to assume so, it's just guessing based on statistical likelihood. If that *isn't* the case, then hurray for the guy I guess but that doesn't change the fact that that is how it usually happens. For gently caress's sake.
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May 18, 2010 02:47
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Green Crayons posted:Speaking of which, I saw a Chipotle for the first time in my life last weekend in my visit up to Williamsburg. Didn't go in, because someone itt said it was trash after it was brought up as a potentially viable taco vendor to frequent. If you have no suitable local "Mama y Papa" taco shops, Chiptole is a not terrible substitute, but literally any authentic Mexican shack will beat it. It is better than Taco Bell, but that is like being better at basketball than Stephen Hawking. Their guacamole is pretty good though IMO
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May 18, 2010 19:21
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Red Bean Juice posted:have you tried the lengua, i would but i fear risk (hence law school) lengua tacos are the best tacos
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May 19, 2010 15:23
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Duper posted:Signed up for the October LSAT. The next few months should be fun as hell... Take classes and practice practice practice. Don't be like me and Ainsley.
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May 20, 2010 14:42
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Interview for staff attorney position with local government agency tomorrow! I was extremely surprised to hear back from the employer just 30 minutes after emailing my resume. Apparently he was in the Marine Corps back in the day as well. The good ol' boy network strikes again... 
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May 20, 2010 21:29
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Lykourgos posted:Received a phone call this morning; Chicago just got one more prosecutor! Congrats buddy! Couple classmates of mine are over there working now. You'll be in good company with some solid dudes. Hope I get this Cook County spot!
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May 21, 2010 00:01
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Lykourgos posted:You are going to be a staff atty at 26th street? I worked there my first summer and it's a great place. The judges are great to work with, and there are big trials going on every single day. America's largest criminal court or something. I'm interviewing for a spot over at the Cook County Treasurer, actually. I am not sure if my friend works in appeals or not. Do you know a guy named Declan?
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May 21, 2010 00:43
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ewr2870 posted:http://abovethelaw.com/2010/03/mutiny-at-mayer-brown/ The sense of entitlement in those emails makes me want to loving throw up. I wish there was a follow up about them joining the bread lines with the rest of us, but I know the world is not a fair or just place.
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May 21, 2010 12:47
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SlyFrog posted:And yet many people actively seek out this type of employment. The financial rewards can be nice no doubt, but I grew up broke and continue to be broke and my life is pretty alright so far. I won't be laying in my coffin at my funeral saying "Motherfucker! I wish I would have worked more." The professional world in America in general though, even at lower paying jobs is a culture of "look how hard we work". I've never understood it and probably never will though I do a great job of pretending (just like I assume a lot of other people are doing) to go along with it. The bottom line, to my mind is if you're not working in a foundry or a mill or some poo poo, you're not "working hard". The work you are doing may be mind-numbing tedious bullshit, but it isn't hard work. It may require specialized knowledge, or a certain set of skills but it isn't the back breaking labor one would generally associate with "hard work". Why is there some sort of dick-measuring contest among people to see how late they can stay at the office? gently caress it, if the job is done and nobody will even know I did it in 20 minutes at the end of the day, I'll jump ship at 5pm and go drink beer and watch hockey and then later on I will claim how "hard" I worked on it to anyone who will listen. Then they will tell me how "hard" they worked on their poo poo and it will be a lie too, and we'll all sit around and jerk each other off and the cycle will continue. I kinda went off on a tangent but my ultimate point is gently caress our culture of work.
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May 24, 2010 20:25
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http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/05/chicago-police-seek-publics-help-in-finding-missing-law-student.html Dude is probably just on a loving epic bender after finals. He'll wake up in Juarez, Mexico wearing nothing but a kilt with his arm stuck in a storm drain or something.
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May 24, 2010 21:42
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HooKars posted:He actually just left the office now and it's only 5 pm. But at least he left to go pick up beer before the firm softball game. There's at least 4 goons in this very thread preparing to kill him and wear his skin. Also: 
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May 24, 2010 23:33
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BrotherAdso posted:That's unfortunate but not really unexpected. Does a larger diversity of specializations/interests occur in the last year that allows you to study those things a little more closely? Sure man my law school offered all kinds of bullshit classes like that and I took a few. They were interesting and gave me credits toward finishing my degree but they sure haven't helped find a job to pay down this looming 150k of debt. If you enjoy what you are doing now why would you drop it all to go into six figures of debt where literally the best possible outcome is you win the grade lottery and get a job where you work 80 hours a week poring over boring minutiae until one day your children who hate/don't even know you find you dead at your desk and the only reason they checked on you was because they were coming to ask you for some money
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May 25, 2010 15:07
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Lykourgos posted:That's hardly the best case scenario. More like, you'll get a tuition waiver, not give a toss about grades, and work consistently and well in a public sector job. Then graduate into a job with respectable hours, people, and pay, working for justice and the public good like some chivalrous nobleman in a field that inspires the hearts and minds of everybody. Also, you'll be regarded as having some semi-divine talent in regards to the law, and will constantly get annoying questions from everybody, albeit spoken with a sort of reverent awe for your brilliance. I meant "best possible outcome" in terms of what 0Ls are thinking they'll be doing in three years when applying to T14 law schools. You don't have to sell the public sector to me, I know that is where it is at but I also know I could get a public sector job without dumping six figures and three years of my life into a law degree.
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May 25, 2010 16:56
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Lykourgos posted:Yes, but what sort of public sector job would you get without the degree? No doubt there are good ones out there, but some require it. Also, you don't get the intangible benefits of awe and praise; as terrible as the public expectations can be for unemployed law grads, those doing work, even unpaid, are like modern demigods to the public, regularly achieving heroic tasks of great import. Heroic tasks of great import doesn't put liquor in my tummy!
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May 25, 2010 17:14
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Torpor posted:Oh boy, you got a personal letter from the man in charge himself! It's unbelievable that this scam is still successful enough that people still attempt it.
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May 25, 2010 23:56
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Apparently there's at least one judge in the U.S. who is biased against the prosecution! http://www.bnd.com/2010/05/26/1270386/wharton-takes-himself-off-case.html Interesting article. I wonder what possessed him to write a letter like that?
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May 26, 2010 14:44
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J Miracle posted:Maybe he's not a fan of police denying a guy legal counsel after he asks for it and continuing to question him...I think there's some piece of paper somewhere that says they're not supposed to do that No I get that, but why would he write a letter about it knowing it was conceivable that he would end up having to hear the case?
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May 26, 2010 15:13
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Another un(legal)employed law grad here. I have a job, but it is the same job I had before and during law school. A job that requires only a 4 year bachelor's degree. A job my boss straight up told me the other day he wouldn't hire me for NOW because now that I have a JD and a law license I am OVERqualified. At our swearing in at the beginning of this month, not a single one of my classmates has a legal job either. One works as a checkout girl at Whole Foods, another is sitting around doing nothing because snowplowing season is over which is what he did last winter. I've made the (alternate) selection list for JAG and had a couple of other interviews but essentially I am right where I began before law school started only now I owe the Federal Government 150k for the pleasure of having attended. And I went to Loyola Chicago, an objectively better law school in an arguably better legal market. Your girlfriend may be dumb for jumping onto a sinking ship, but even dumber would be to blindly follow along behind her when you know the facts. Bottom line is that even if you convince her not to go, she'll always resent you for standing in the way of her "opportunity". When she does go and all of our predictions come horribly true, you'll be the one left holding the bag with a 24 year old unemployable six-figure debt-laden girlfriend who is angry and bitter. It's lose/lose for you dude. Sever! (mixing e/n and a/t a lil here)
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May 28, 2010 13:22
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I dunno, kid is kind of a clown but this woman he interviewed with is a real piece of work as well. They deserve one another imo.
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May 31, 2010 14:11
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Ainsley McTree posted:The short version - borrow only federal debt (use a grad plus loan for your supplemental loan), then when you're 2 months away from the end of your grace period consolidate them and click the "IBR" button and baboom your payments are reasonable now (or zero, if you're broke enough) The new laws and IBR rules that prevent lenders from giving you a serious buttfucking even if you have absolutely no way to pay are unamerican and I presume will be repealed at any moment. Lobbyists are hard at work so take advantage of this while you still can. Use the money you save to put aside for your impending flight to a third-world nation!
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Jun 1, 2010 19:09
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entris posted:I'm at a conference at UVa law, and I walked around the outside of the JAG building, which is next door. Pretty boring building but it's cool to see people walking around in fatigues and holding casebooks. If all goes as planned I should be down there next Spring! Can't wait to practice the hell out of some law while wearing comfortable clothes to work er'day.
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Jun 3, 2010 17:52
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I was the selected one, but that selection was for the "alternate" list and is for the Army; although with the exception of the Marine Corps the JAG programs are essentially the same especially to someone with no prior service. Alternate means if a spot does not open up for me this summer I'll have to reapply in the late fall or go Reserve, but it also means I'm virtually certain to get a main list spot the next time around. It is indeed extremely competitive. Something around 5% of applicants to Army JAG were accepted last application period. I'm prior service and I also have two close friends serving as JAGs. As I've done for others in the thread I'd be glad to answer your questions to the best of my ability. I don't have PM's but you can email me at klegg at luc dot edu.
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Jun 4, 2010 03:05
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I'm not seeing anyone living up to this past winter's whining/bitching about the bar prep courses. Are all you bar takers actually... studying? My schedule was 1 hour of study per half hour of bitching on the internet, followed by at least 4-5 alcoholic drinks.
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Jun 4, 2010 15:08
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Maggie Fletcher posted:It's only been two weeks so I haven't started bitching yet. That's an impressive schedule you got there, btw. Did you pass? I reserve boozin' for the weekend (immense willpower on my part). So in my case, I am actually studying. Considering how I hosed around during law school, this is kind of a new phenomenon for me. Yeah I passed but everyone passes Illinois  If I were studying for the California bar I might actually try.
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Jun 4, 2010 17:06
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Just want to say that "undoubtedly totally bitchin" is a phrase that brightened my spirits this day. Also, don't write a loving liability release for anyone if you haven't passed the bar and been admitted you dummy. e: A couple of people have asked me to do wills for them. I can totally do this (we're not talking people with offshore accounts and millions of net worth tied up in annuities or anything, more like my stoner friends from high school who want to make sure their girlfriend gets the blown-glass bong if they eat too many mushrooms one night or something) but I was wondering how do you find out what is reasonable to charge someone? I mean, I'm basically going to be teaching myself to do this out of the Cook County law library and I know I can't (or shouldn't) charge for that, but should I just go "flat-fee" based on what I think seems a reasonable amount of time vs. compensation? Defleshed fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Jun 9, 2010 |
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Jun 9, 2010 15:21
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bropocalypse now posted:I'm committed to exploring my options. Last time I uttered this phrase I woke up in a Oaxaca jail with my balls stuck in the neck of a tequila bottle. Law school is the academic equivalent.
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Jun 14, 2010 20:52
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Since many of us come from stable, sensible families and have risk-averse personalities that led us to (previously) stable careers such as law practice, it is often hard for us to even imagine some of the situations in which your average family law client finds him or herself. But "those people" are out there, and they are legion.
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Jun 15, 2010 15:09
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I Am Not Clever posted:I had no idea about any of this doom and gloom. If what you're saying is true, it sounds like the legal profession is in very bad shape in this country. Hi, I was just admitted to practice in Illinois in May. I still work the same job I had when I started law school (for essentially the same pay), and my only option for legal employment was to re-join the military after being out for the last 10 years. AND I HAD TO APPLY 4 TIMES TO TWO DIFFERENT BRANCHES BEFORE I WAS ACCEPTED. I'm not as gloom/doom as some posters itt, but the grim reality is that law schools are making too many lawyers and there aren't nearly enough positions for all of us to fill. The ABA isn't protecting our profession by stopping or slowing the proliferation of for-profit law schools in any way, and they are in fact encouraging this behavior for some reason (probably money related). Sure it's possible you MIGHT get a job after wasting 3 years of your life and a couple hundred G's at one of those Oregon schools, but it is far more likely you'll end up like me or any of 100 names I can give you off the top of my head that I know personally who are in the exact same situation as me. Just don't go. Seriously. I wish I had known about this thread or had done more than a cursory investigation into what I was getting myself into before I went to law school. P.S. - the law school I went to is "regionally respected" also, and I also guarantee they are counting me as "full-time employed" on their statistics, neverminding I work a job that doesn't even require a bachelor's degree, let alone a JD edit: and just so you don't think "heh, well that guy just didn't work hard enough or do well enough  " I can count on one hand the number of colleagues I graduated with working at firms right now, and two of my closest friends in law school were very high ranked and had firms slobbering over them during OCI in 2007, summered at said firms, then got the loving shaft when the economy nosedived in 2008 and were dropped in 2009.
Defleshed fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Jun 17, 2010 |
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Jun 17, 2010 14:54
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poofactory posted:7x profit sounds really high. Is that before or after I take my salary and other benefits? I would sell right now either way. Business is stable and has steadily increased over the years. I'd say 15% average growth. No PI stuff to skew the numbers. So what you're saying is you want to take on an unemployed Loyola grad (me) and teach him the ropes of immigration law so that I become experienced enough to buy your practice from you. Right? RIGHT?
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Jun 21, 2010 21:53
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