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redreader posted:I thought we weren't supposed to talk about stuff beyond the first few chapters? why are we having this argument? We're talking about the setting, and "low magic fantasy", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean, always comes up. So we're discussing it!
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| # ? May 21, 2010 19:01 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 23:45 |
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It depends on the meaning of 'wizard'  Wizards = Gandalf, Dumbledore, Ged? Then there are no wizards in ASOIAF. If gandalfs are only a subset of 'wizards', and 'wizards' = a blanket term for magic-users, there may be wizards in ASOIAF. In the first few chapters, the only wizard is Ned. In bed. I may have posted this just because I wanted to use 'gandalfs' as a word, which it is not
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| # ? May 21, 2010 19:21 |
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What about the version IN THE DICTIONARY ENTRY FOR WIZARD!
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| # ? May 21, 2010 19:45 |
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Guys, hush down, you're going to scare our TVIV visitors...
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| # ? May 21, 2010 19:54 |
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I can feel the rage building already...
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| # ? May 21, 2010 20:40 |
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What about religion? Some gods seem to have true power rh'lor has the ghost from the vagina and zombification power, the 'old gods' seem to have some power north of the wall, in the case of the sea gods of the iron isles I'm not entirely sure if they have power or if some priests are just really good at cpr. However there are some gods who have done nothing concrete yet so far in the series: the Seven, who are the main religion of westeros. I don't think that is a coincidence.
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| # ? May 21, 2010 20:54 |
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SaviourX posted:And oh, how I pity yours. To each their own, but I'd have a hard time taking someone seriously who contends that Vonnegut is a great writer (as opposed to storyteller), and that's coming from someone who really likes Vonnegut and has read everything he's written, even the execrable Timequake. Bradbury and GRRM are pretty close in my mind. Both pale compared to, say, Updike. But w/e, kind of silly to turn this thread into a "who outputs the prettiest prose" contest.
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| # ? May 21, 2010 21:20 |
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re: wizards, what if I said that tyrion is a 'wizard' at killing dads? If we're going by the dictionary definition that would be correct.Buck Lodestar posted:
Your opinion differs from mine? You better take that back mister! Seriously, I agree that vonnegut is a better writer but this sort of thing is mostly subjective. Don't be a dick. Shark Mafia fucked around with this message at May 21, 2010 around 21:40 |
| # ? May 21, 2010 21:32 |
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I haven't read the thread at all, but I have read all the books in the series and the OP. I really liked all of the books, and one thing that struck me after browsing through the first post is that all of the characters and scenes from the art are instantly recognizable and memorable if you've read the books, which goes to show how GRRM is extremely effective at creating a world that's unique enough to keep a reader interested but familiar enough that it's easy to visualize and keep track of without memorizing all kinds of garbage elven words and place names. I'm reading Steven Erikson's "Malazan" series right now, mostly because I've seen it compared favorably with GRRM's books, but even as I'm nearing the end of the second book, it still hasn't grabbed me very much at all. The plots and narrative are similar to "A Song of Ice and Fire", but the characters aren't as interesting or well developed and the setting is a bit too vast and exotic to firmly grasp. I'm pretty confident that if I was shown 10 paintings of scenes from the "Malazan" series, I wouldn't be able to tell you nearly as much about them as I could about the paintings from the OP. I'm not looking to start an Erikson v Martin discussion, but seeing the OP made me think about how much and why I liked ASoIaF and how much Malazan isn't quite doing it for me.
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| # ? May 22, 2010 01:57 |
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I had my wisdom teeth out a little while ago and finally got around to starting this series, reading it off my netbook. I knew the series was popular but avoided the discussions until I had time for it. I was at about 60% through book two when I hit all of the spoilers posted in this thread earlier (gone now I guess), which kinda killed my interest. I will pick it back up when I forget all the spoiled stuff or when I'm laid low again. Actually, now that I'm looking at the thread again I'd like to at least finish the book I'm on. The series so far as I read it was pretty gripping though, I guess I would recommend it to anyone who likes the genre. The slightly off yet familiar takes on standard fantasy characters were neat.
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| # ? May 22, 2010 10:04 |
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The Breakfast Sampler posted:I had my wisdom teeth out a little while ago and finally got around to starting this series, reading it off my netbook. I knew the series was popular but avoided the discussions until I had time for it. I was at about 60% through book two when I hit all of the spoilers posted in this thread earlier (gone now I guess), which kinda killed my interest. I will pick it back up when I forget all the spoiled stuff or when I'm laid low again. To be fair, you don't know *how* it happens, only *that* they happen. I still think its lovely though, the guy was an asshat and doesn't represent the rest of us (unless you go to the other GRRM page, that shits full of spoilers). My take on the wizard thing- I think theres people who can perform dark rituals to gain power and abilities, but I wouldn't call them "wizards".. Not sure what a good name for them would be, but they aren't your classic Gandalf/Dumbledore wizard.
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| # ? May 22, 2010 14:24 |
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I have just finished A Storm of Swords a week or so ago and I am very hesitant to continue the series. My main gripe is that the majority of the book felt a whole lot like filler. He just continously masturbates over describing feasts or what people look like riding their horses down a street. The multitude of dialogue that in the end turns out to be entirely useless is also...well...useless to the story. The guy only advances the actual plots once every ten chapters, and there is so much more room for more action and battles and people just simply doing meaningful stuff instead of talking. I just feel like picking up the third book, which is even longer, may turn out to be a huge waste of time. I have to admit, I like the world he's created, it is amazing, and I do genuinly want to find out what happens to everyone. But is there any encouragement out there? Or good words? That can entice me to keep reading this series?
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| # ? May 22, 2010 14:35 |
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The third book is probably the best and fastest paced of what he's written so far. If you decide to read it, you'll find that a lot of the reason the second book was so slow is because a lot of it is setup for the huge explosion of action in the third book. I think a lot of the vitriol in the other thread is because after the third book things slow down a whole bunch in Feast for Crows, and of course further books will never come out so we'll never get to see the resolution of all the plot hooks the third book ended on.
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| # ? May 22, 2010 14:47 |
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Marchegiana posted:The third book is probably the best and fastest paced of what he's written so far. If you decide to read it, you'll find that a lot of the reason the second book was so slow is because a lot of it is setup for the huge explosion of action in the third book. I think a lot of the vitriol in the other thread is because after the third book things slow down a whole bunch in Feast for Crows, and of course further books will never come out so we'll never get to see the resolution of all the plot hooks the third book ended on. Yeah, this, pretty much. The third one is definitely the best one, with the most action and evolution of the story. Then the fourth one slows down again.
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| # ? May 22, 2010 14:55 |
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Blind Rasputin posted:I have just finished A Storm of Swords a week or so ago and I am very hesitant to continue the series. My main gripe is that the majority of the book felt a whole lot like filler. He just continously masturbates over describing feasts or what people look like riding their horses down a street. The multitude of dialogue that in the end turns out to be entirely useless is also...well...useless to the story. If you didn't like Storm of Swords then you will not enjoy the series. Its the best one.
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| # ? May 22, 2010 15:01 |
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Yeah, Storm of Swords is the Empire Strikes Back of the series, in quality and tone. If you don't like it, just give up.
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| # ? May 22, 2010 15:09 |
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Blind Rasputin posted:I have just finished A Storm of Swords a week or so ago and I am very hesitant to continue the series. My main gripe is that the majority of the book felt a whole lot like filler. He just continously masturbates over describing feasts or what people look like riding their horses down a street. The multitude of dialogue that in the end turns out to be entirely useless is also...well...useless to the story. It seems like filler. If you finish the series and go back and reread it, you'll be amazed at all the stuff that was set up thousands of pages ago.
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| # ? May 22, 2010 16:26 |
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Marchegiana posted:The third book is probably the best and fastest paced of what he's written so far. If you decide to read it, you'll find that a lot of the reason the second book was so slow is because a lot of it is setup for the huge explosion of action in the third book. I think a lot of the vitriol in the other thread is because after the third book things slow down a whole bunch in Feast for Crows, and of course further books will never come out so we'll never get to see the resolution of all the plot hooks the third book ended on. Thanks for that. This made me actually want to pick it up and read it. Let's here hope this means Tyrion does more axe wielding
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| # ? May 23, 2010 03:52 |
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I'm grateful that this thread exists because the books are genuinely brilliant but the existing thread is horrible poo poo. Martin may lead a pathetic, childish personal life but he's a drat good writer--not just good for fantasy, but good in regards to actual literature. The "quality of the prose", meaning the words used to present the authors ideas, is merely average. He doesn't produce any brilliant turns of phrase (Not intentionally, at least, Myrish swamps and swinging manhood aside). The plot is clever, featuring multiple warring families as they battle for power, with no obvious protagonist and no way of knowing what will happen next. Wizard poo poo is practically nonexistent, making it more interesting than the typical D&D hack novels where magicking a problem away is par for the course. An arrow in the gut means death. A fatal disease cannot be cured. The characters are mostly two-dimensional (Except for GRRM's obvious favorites such as Tyrion), but the emotions they experience are tremendously powerful. A certain scene in A Storm of Swords wounded many otherwise jaded readers as deeply as if a loved one had died. GRRM is a master of manipulating emotions if nothing else.
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| # ? May 23, 2010 04:18 |
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I've never read these books but started on GoT about a month ago. I got about halfway through to where the eunuch and Ned have that chat in his chambers and he doesn't seem like such a bad guy anymore imho but stopped for...some reason. I don't know why. Anyways, you'll see me back in here again once we get to that chunk of the book! I can't wait to become a bitter, angry rear end in a top hat with a gang tag!
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| # ? May 23, 2010 08:23 |
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I'm in... I have already read it but I have been meaning to reread it for a while... are you all starting tomorrow?
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| # ? May 23, 2010 09:07 |
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Regicide posted:I'm in... I have already read it but I have been meaning to reread it for a while... are you all starting tomorrow? Yes, I'm a bit over halfway through so tomorrow I'll post some discussion points for people to talk about i guess.
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| # ? May 23, 2010 09:45 |
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Yeah I'm about a 3rd through but won't get time to read over the next few days and will probably end up going back on schedule again
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| # ? May 23, 2010 10:11 |
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I still recommend the series, and still have the books sitting on my shelf. I have to admit, I couldn't get through the first book when I first got it, it all seemed like it was all a very, very cliche fantasy novel and wasn't going anywhere interesting. Then I stopped reading halfway through the book. A year or so later, I picked up the second one, almost out of spite and read it, and forgot how awesome the series was and read until Feast. Then I went back and read the first one. Holy poo poo, I stopped right before it got good and serious. So new readers, I'd recommend that you should at least try and make it past half way, because that's what really hooked me, and it is a fantastic series, and even though there are only 4 books, I'll probably never stop recommending it, even if GRRM keels over and dies. And I'm really intrigued for the HBO series. Yes, I stopped reading right before Ned got beheaded. The Red Viper is *the* best character.
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| # ? May 23, 2010 16:27 |
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I think I was hooked a bit earlier than halfway, I liked the setting much more than a lot of other fantasy novels. Probably because I love historical fiction and it has that feel. So Monday the 24th has arrived. Who wants to talk about the books? I spoilered any potential giveaway points but they're by no means major. Most of the week 1 chapters were introduction anyway. What did you think of the prologue compared to the rest of the chapters? What about all the PoV characters that Martin uses? Is the unfolding story something you like? Specific stuff: Dany 1: The Dany/Viserys relationship Bran 2: "The things I do for love"/Cersei and Jaime I can't find my copy of the book so that's all I can remember. Anyone else have anything they want to add?
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| # ? May 23, 2010 23:33 |
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MeerkatHero posted:In the first few chapters, the only wizard is Ned. In bed. Not if his seed didn't quicken. Most of him ended up on her slick, aching loins.
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| # ? May 23, 2010 23:46 |
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Trueposting: I thought the book was pretty generic and gay until the Bran twist. Re: Writing as entertainment, It's a good thing when done well. Most of the time it isn't. I love storytelling, but language and execution is the most important part of that, and Georgie could do with a bit of work in tightening his poo poo up instead of adding another feast or clothing description. Also, as someone else pointed out, the characters are a bit too on-the-nose; there's not much subtext and not much internal growth (exceptions: maybe Arya and Jaime. But the books are still p good, I won't say different and will fight fellow English Majors that say they aren't.
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| # ? May 24, 2010 00:34 |
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Dendra posted:Specific stuff: This is one of many things in the series that, in a vacuum, makes you feel "  this is horrible, I feel bad for this person." But when you add the internet, you find people who are jacking off while reading it.
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| # ? May 24, 2010 02:21 |
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Paper Lion posted:I can't wait to become a bitter, angry rear end in a top hat with a gang tag! One of us, one of us!
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| # ? May 24, 2010 05:36 |
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I bought the entire series from Amazon like a year ago, and the first book has been sitting on my coffee table, unread beyond the first 4 chapters since then. I must finish this book. I don't even get HBO, so I probably wont see the series until I can rent it from Netflix or something  The only fantasy books I've read are R.A. Salvatore (and LoTR years and years and years ago). Is this going to make me never want to go back to the wonderfully trite world of Drizz't? I think those books are pretty entertaining, but they do feel awfully dumbed down.
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| # ? May 24, 2010 07:06 |
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You won't be able to take drizzt very seriously after reading asoiaf. It sounds like you already don't, though, so it shouldn't be a problem. These are good books, but they aren't life-changing unless you've read nothing but fantasy and star wars EU novels before picking them up.
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| # ? May 24, 2010 09:07 |
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Drizzt was an ok read, ASOIAF will blow it out of the water. Salvator pushes out mass books with very little thought and the books are pretty straight forward. GRRM makes a more crafty story with twists, turns, plots, and events that happen 1000s of pages later and you are like OH poo poo I remember that from earlier.
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| # ? May 24, 2010 12:51 |
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Week 1 in OP linked to Dendra's opening post. Week 2 unveiled.
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| # ? May 24, 2010 16:25 |
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It took me 3 attempts to get into A Game of Thrones - I think it was the prologue that didn't seem to fit with the following chapters and the amount of names that were introduced that put me off, but I'm glad I stuck with it. ASOIAF is one of my favourites series of books now. I hope those reading it for the first time enjoy it. Having re-read it a number of times and currently finishing the audiobook of AFFC, I'm not thinking of joining this re-read, but will follow the discussions. There was a rather amusing Blog of someone reading through AGoT for the first time here: http://blogoficeandfire.blogspot.co...troduction.html No spoilers in the above link, but obviously as the guy reads through the book (from May 2009 to now) there are.
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| # ? May 24, 2010 18:50 |
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Badgers Nadgers posted:There was a rather amusing Blog of someone reading through AGoT for the first time here: There aren't spoilers in the blog posts beyond what chapters he was reading at the time, but stay away from the comments. The guy had his friend moderate the comments, and he stayed away from them to try and avoid the spoilers.
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| # ? May 24, 2010 19:11 |
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Blind Rasputin posted:I have just finished A Storm of Swords a week or so ago and I am very hesitant to continue the series. My main gripe is that the majority of the book felt a whole lot like filler. He just continously masturbates over describing feasts or what people look like riding their horses down a street. The multitude of dialogue that in the end turns out to be entirely useless is also...well...useless to the story. A Storm of Swords is the third book. Do you mean you've read a Clash of Kings (the second book)? I'm not trying to nitpick your post but as others have said, Storm of Swords is the most exciting book in the series with great payoffs for the things that have been built up throughout the series. So if you didn't like that... then don't pick up the next book. But if you just read the second book and are interested in continuing the story then definitely do so because there's some great story coming your way.
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| # ? May 24, 2010 19:16 |
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Tender Bender posted:A Storm of Swords is the third book. Do you mean you've read a Clash of Kings (the second book)? I'm not trying to nitpick your post but as others have said, Storm of Swords is the most exciting book in the series with great payoffs for the things that have been built up throughout the series. So if you didn't like that... then don't pick up the next book. But if you just read the second book and are interested in continuing the story then definitely do so because there's some great story coming your way. Edit to sound like less of a dick: I'm curious to know what his basis for comparison is on overdescription and filler. Among mainstream fantasy authors, GRRM seems pretty low on the list of offenders for both crimes. Verloc fucked around with this message at May 24, 2010 around 20:08 |
| # ? May 24, 2010 19:38 |
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Virigoth posted:Drizzt was an ok read, ASOIAF will blow it out of the water. Salvator pushes out mass books with very little thought and the books are pretty straight forward. GRRM makes a more crafty story with twists, turns, plots, and events that happen 1000s of pages later and you are like OH poo poo I remember that from earlier. If you've read one or two Dark Elf books, you've really read them all. A large portion of each book is taken up by descriptions of fighting (personal combat, not army-scale), there's a monster-of-the-week, there's a bit of emotional/relationship drama and tension, and then everything more or less gets wrapped up by the end. It's almost like they're begging for a TV series adaptation, and with the amount of combat in each book it would likely work. Badgers Nadgers posted:It took me 3 attempts to get into A Game of Thrones - I think it was the prologue that didn't seem to fit with the following chapters and the amount of names that were introduced that put me off, but I'm glad I stuck with it. ASOIAF is one of my favourites series of books now. It only took me one attempt, but I had a friend almost begging me to keep reading so she could talk about some of the plot with me, so I was motivated. Still, the first half of the book was pretty draggy, especially the first hundred pages, but around that point you start to get hints of what kind of a world this is and how this story might differ from most. What really got me about the first book, after I was done with the whole thing, was (overall plot/tone spoilers, don't read unless you've finished book 1)how it tricks the reader into focusing on exactly what the characters in the book are erroneously focusing on. What I mean is, you've got this prologue that fades into your unconscious as soon as the political stuff starts becoming interesting. Then you've got an entire book of human power struggle, political intrigue, treason and murder. It's awesome. And then maybe after you're done, you remember the prologue. There are soul-stealing undead massing beyond the wall in the north. The wall that the general population seems to think exists to keep out a few humans who don't want to be ruled by a King. The 700-foot-high wall of magic ice. Yeah. The problems of the ruling houses are a child's slapfight next to the looming catastrophe of loving zombies, and nobody even has an inkling of how much danger they're really in. It's a neat little extra layer to the story.
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| # ? May 24, 2010 19:57 |
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Got the first book for my birthday, started reading it a week or so ago. Gotta say it's the first book in a long time that's really hooked me. Hopefully book two will arrive tomorrow! Also, is book 3 split into two parts for the UK?
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| # ? May 24, 2010 21:08 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 23:45 |
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So I just read the first forty pages or so of A Game of Thrones, and I'm enjoying the world and amount of detail GRRM fits into his writing, but as a newcomer to the series all of the namedropping, inter-family friendships/conflicts and other polity is difficult to visualize and organize this early on. Is there some sort of crash course to ASoIF that's spoiler free that I can read to kind of wade into the water rather than being thrown in? Or will I be able to understand everything later if I just power through and put up with my confusion?
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| # ? May 24, 2010 21:42 |
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