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Here's something minor but I've always wondered: When John, Ben, and Hurley were on their way to the Orchid station, Ben stopped to shine a mirror at someone up high. Who shined back? Did we ever find that out?
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May 26, 2010 22:57
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Today a friend of mine, was asking me about lost, and some questions she had, until this point, I had answered every question on the course of the whole series. She asked me if the island was purgatory...if ben and hurley remained as bffs, and then asked me about the numbers... This I made up as I went along, and I think it makes sense; I told her, Jacob was a manipulative bastard who did many, different things to get people into the island, and then let them knew that they were there for a purpose, the numbers were the way to manipulate hurley into going to the island, and then by having the numbers everywhere, were a way of reminding him that the island was magical, and it wasnt done with him yet. Then she asked, so Jacob made him win the lottery? I told her, Jacob, was like the game master, he can make up whatever rule he wants, and the island will enforce this rule, he can be as powerfull as he wants, even trascend the boundaries of the island. So, why not kill MIB and be done with it? Well, it was his brother, and like with Ben, he wanted to see if he could change, if he would make the right choice in the end, and when he realized that MIB was not going to change, he was powerless to do it (being dead and all) She asked me, why wasnīt michael at the church? I said, well, he was a ghost trapped in the island. So she said, but charlie and ana lucia where ghosts too, why are they free and why michael isnīt? Well, Hurley is the new game master, he can free whoever ghost he wants, of course he is going to free Charlie, he was his friend, and he never had a problem with Ana Lucia...now Michael...he killed libby... All made up in the moment, and I think it makes sense
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May 26, 2010 22:58
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get out posted:Here's something minor but I've always wondered: I assume it was for another Other to be sure he had made it and that if he didn't respond in a certain amount of time to attack the Mercs or to track him down.
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May 26, 2010 23:03
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El Pato posted:Today a friend of mine, was asking me about lost, and some questions she had, until this point, I had answered every question on the course of the whole series. I generally agree with this. I don't think Jacob controls the numbers per se, but he can push the domino of fate to get whoever he wants to the island and fate uses the numbers. Charlie and Ana Lucia weren't trapped on island at all as Hurley talked to them in LA. Everyone in purgatory was technically "a ghost". Michael had something specific to atone for. Robotnik DDS fucked around with this message at 23:19 on May 26, 2010 |
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May 26, 2010 23:07
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Weren't the Dharma Initiative the originators of the numbers? I thought it was their mathematical attempt at explaining some of the crazy poo poo that happens.
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May 26, 2010 23:10
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Cellophane S posted:Weren't the Dharma Initiative the originators of the numbers? I thought it was their mathematical attempt at explaining some of the crazy poo poo that happens. The Valenzetti Equation relates specifically to a world ending scenario. It's not why the numbers would be on Hurley's speedometer or the back of some girl's soccer uniform or Kate's trial number. The way I see it, in the Lost-Verse, some form of string theory is real and there is a universal equation that ties everything in existence together. The numbers are the primary values in this equation. All of the times we see the numbers are just manifestations of this equation. Some dudes like Hurley or Leonard or Valenzetti have a form of intelligence or a genetic disposition that allows them to "see the matrix".
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May 26, 2010 23:13
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Robotnik DDS posted:The Valenzetti Equation relates specifically to a world ending scenario. It's not why the numbers would be on Hurley's speedometer or the back of some girl's soccer uniform or Kate's trial number. The way I see it, in the Lost-Verse, some form of string theory is real and there is a universal equation that ties everything in existence together. The numbers are the primary values in this equation. All of the times we see the numbers are just manifestations of this equation. Some dudes like Hurley or Leonard or Valenzetti have a form of intelligence or a genetic disposition that allows them to "see the matrix". I'll buy that! I still remember how loving awesome the numbers episode was, first time I saw it.
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May 26, 2010 23:15
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El Pato posted:Well, Hurley is the new game master, he can free whoever ghost he wants, of course he is going to free Charlie, he was his friend, and he never had a problem with Ana Lucia...now Michael...he killed libby... I think Hurley accepted Michael's apology about Libby, so that part needs some more thought. Otherwise, I kinda like this explanation.
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May 26, 2010 23:21
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Robotnik DDS posted:The Valenzetti Equation relates specifically to a world ending scenario. It's not why the numbers would be on Hurley's speedometer or the back of some girl's soccer uniform or Kate's trial number. The way I see it, in the Lost-Verse, some form of string theory is real and there is a universal equation that ties everything in existence together. The numbers are the primary values in this equation. All of the times we see the numbers are just manifestations of this equation. Some dudes like Hurley or Leonard or Valenzetti have a form of intelligence or a genetic disposition that allows them to "see the matrix". I just want to throw out there that the reoccurrence of the numbers is just coincidence -- just as much as Sawyer meeting Christian or Locke/Sawyer/Anthony Cooper relationship, Libby being in the mental institution and then meeting Desmond, etc. The numbers just get a lot of attention because they are visual cues that are easily readable, however, I think that asking why one of the numbers would be assigned as an airplane seat, a Mr Cluck's order number, or an alarm time is like asking why did both Eko and Yemi crash on the same island.
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May 26, 2010 23:26
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passionate dongs posted:I just want to throw out there that the reoccurrence of the numbers is just coincidence I agree with this more than the Valenzetti "equation of the end of the world" b.s. Like the Number 23 (not coincidentally), the numbers are just a recurring theme... in the Lost universe, they just stand out more often than other numbers, just like modern society regards superstitions towards numbers like 23, 7, 13, etc. I do find it interesting the one of the non-main numbers (Kate) was the one to fire the shot that ended MiB. I also have no idea why DHARMA would insist on entering that dreadful combination at the Swan Station rather than simply pressing the "any key" to continue. I have a feeling that was less "the electromagnetism demands it" and more "we're DHARMA so let's make this a psychological experiment at the same time."
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May 26, 2010 23:34
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Yeah, the Valenzetti Equation or the Candidates are not the source or "solution" to the numbers. The numbers are just in the fabric of things.
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May 26, 2010 23:37
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Manos del Sino posted:I also have no idea why DHARMA would insist on entering that dreadful combination at the Swan Station rather than simply pressing the "any key" to continue. I have a feeling that was less "the electromagnetism demands it" and more "we're DHARMA so let's make this a psychological experiment at the same time."
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May 26, 2010 23:41
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I think Michael was also trapped on the island because he himself couldn't let go of what he did. Sort of like how Ben refused to go into the church with the others.
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May 26, 2010 23:51
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I think it would have been a real nice twist if they gave us just the tiniest notion that Jack actually did become a smoke monster. They could keep every other scene just as it is, the superchurch, the plane taking off, vincent; totally the same (because he would still die eventually). Just a small nod like a AWOOOO sound or a reflection in his eyeball or something. I feel like it could have been just one extra mystery for people to always think about. It could go two ways: the monster just stole his body (if you're in the camp that Smokey was never MIB at all and was an entity to itself) OR it would be punishment for his bonehead plan 
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May 26, 2010 23:54
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Matt Cruea posted:Incredible. I had never noticed this before. Slightly alternate theory: It's related to both The Source, but the Swan too and maybe Widmore's trial run. We've already seen Desmond with prescient knowledge (Further Instructions, Flashes Before Your Eyes, etc.) - why is this now any different? Desmond recognizes it because he's basically Billy Pilgrim, his consciousness is linked to his entire life - The Swan implosion basically rippled through his entire consciousness - it still only happens once to Desmond, but he feels the effects before the cause - possibly since the day he was born. He's has already seen the sky light up and I think because of his experiences he's always been linked to the Island (before and after them) and generally sees more than most ever would.
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May 26, 2010 23:54
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Manos del Sino posted:I also have no idea why DHARMA would insist on entering that dreadful combination at the Swan Station rather than simply pressing the "any key" to continue. I have a feeling that was less "the electromagnetism demands it" and more "we're DHARMA so let's make this a psychological experiment at the same time."
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May 26, 2010 23:54
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Manos del Sino posted:I also have no idea why DHARMA would insist on entering that dreadful combination at the Swan Station rather than simply pressing the "any key" to continue. I have a feeling that was less "the electromagnetism demands it" and more "we're DHARMA so let's make this a psychological experiment at the same time." I do think that those specific numbers being entered matter. My current theory is that the island is like a giant super advanced computer in and of itself. Drilling at the Swan site into one of the "nodes" broke a critical part of the computer. Dharma then had to construct the Swan site and interface a real computer to it in order to "repair" the damage. The numbers are important because they are central to "program" currently running on the island. Also, the heart of the island is the island's CPU. Desmond pulling out the cork was akin to removing the heatsink. The entire island started to over heat in the form of violent volcanic activity that threatened to tear the island apart.
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May 27, 2010 00:39
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We don't really need a second LOST discussion thread right now. In a day or two, this will just devolve into the same back-and-forth as the other thread, and we don't need that.
Aatrek fucked around with this message at 00:55 on May 27, 2010 |
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May 27, 2010 00:53
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I'll give this another go. But if the two LOST threads start to look too similar, this one's getting closed.
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May 27, 2010 01:46
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Woo, thanks! You must have just tried to read through the aftermath thread.  I'm going to try and update the OP a bit with some other "answers." If anyone has any objections to the questions/explanations I add (so far mostly the ones posted by Teek) let me know so we can hone them.
Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 02:05 on May 27, 2010 |
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May 27, 2010 01:48
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Aatrek posted:I'll give this another go. Anyways, regarding the Egyptian culture on the island. Here is what I think it is all about : "Egyptian" mythology is sort of a misnomer in the world of LOST. I think what happened is that people came to the island via shipwreck or what not from nearby (i.e., in the Pacific or South China Sea or something) or maybe the island was positioned in the Atlantic or Mediterranean at the time and people came from around there. Once on the island, these people formed their civilization and religious practices (building statues of Tawaret, temples, etc...). There were also "smart men" among them who figured out how to construct and turn the wheel. Once people did, they were predictably warped to the middle of Tunisia (like Ben and Locke were). So, these warped islanders went looking for a nearby source of water and happened upon the Nile River and Egypt. They formed their civilization with their "island" mythology, which we know now as Egyptian mythology. They also began to speak of an island that can no longer be found with magical properties and other wonders. This is how the general myth of the "Lost City of Atlantis" would have developed. This is just my take based on everything that they presented. I think the real key is that the island teleports you to Tunisia once you spin the wheel. That is not just a random location. I really believe it is crucial to the whole Egyptian background. Edit: I was also thinking that maybe the first people ever were just people native to the island, never coming from anywhere else and that their religion and mythological followings were "Egyptian". Either way, I like the idea of these people eventually making and turning the wheel, ending up in Tunisia, and recolonizing in Egypt. Nadir fucked around with this message at 05:43 on May 27, 2010 |
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May 27, 2010 02:26
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Nadir posted:"Egyptian" mythology is sort of a misnomer in the world of LOST. I think what happened is that people came to the island via shipwreck or what not from nearby (i.e., in the Pacific or South China Sea or something). Once on the island, they formed their civilization and religious practices (building statues of Tawaret, temples, etc...). There were also "smart men" among them who figured out how to construct and turn the wheel. Once people did, they were predictably warped to the middle of Tunisia (like Ben and Locke were). So, these warped islanders went looking for a nearby source of water and happened upon the Nile River and Egypt. They formed their civilization with their "island" mythology, which we know now as Egyptian mythology. They also began to speak of an island that can no longer be found with magical properties and other wonders. This is how the general myth of the "Lost City of Atlantis" would have developed. I like the idea that Egyptian civilization is based on the island and not the other way around. This would also explain why it would last longer on the island than in Africa. You do have to consider the 23-24 AD date of Across the Sea if we are accepting that as canon. Another thing to consider for theories in general is that the island moves. We haven't had an indication that it moves in time but only space so far, though. The point is, you can be coming from the Canary Islands or Nigeria and crash into it, with the island itself likely in the Atlantic ocean.
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May 27, 2010 02:33
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Fast Luck posted:Where did the Dharma food drop come from? I think this is wrong and overthinking things. We know that some arm of the Dharma Initiative still exists and is sending people to man the Swan Station. Kelvin got recruited post Desert Storm, and was expecting a replacement. They probably just drop food occasionally for the poor suckers that get tricked into pushing a button to stop a mistake that the DI made 30 years prior.
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May 27, 2010 02:41
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MariusMS posted:I think this is wrong and overthinking things. We know that some arm of the Dharma Initiative still exists and is sending people to man the Swan Station. Kelvin got recruited post Desert Storm, and was expecting a replacement. They probably just drop food occasionally for the poor suckers that get tricked into pushing a button to stop a mistake that the DI made 30 years prior. It is also possible that Mikhail or someone else at the Flame requested a food drop before it's destruction as this was one of the computer's commands.
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May 27, 2010 02:45
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If, hypothetically, someone who had not seen the show asked for a plot synopsis encompassing the entire story from start to finish in 200 words or less, what would you say to them?
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May 27, 2010 02:46
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Robotnik DDS posted:I like the idea that Egyptian civilization is based on the island and not the other way around. This would also explain why it would last longer on the island than in Africa. You do have to consider the 23-24 AD date of Across the Sea if we are accepting that as canon. Another thing to consider for theories in general is that the island moves. We haven't had an indication that it moves in time but only space so far, though. The point is, you can be coming from the Canary Islands or Nigeria and crash into it, with the island itself likely in the Atlantic ocean. When they turn the wheel, the island moves, but the person or persons moving the wheel get thrown through time and into Tunisia. They could arrive in pre-Egyptian culture. The problem is that Egyptian culture is clearly derived from Sumerian culture, so they would have to go back at least that far, and then forward again at normal speed. Still, it works as an explanation.
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May 27, 2010 02:47
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MariusMS posted:I think this is wrong and overthinking things. We know that some arm of the Dharma Initiative still exists and is sending people to man the Swan Station. Kelvin got recruited post Desert Storm, and was expecting a replacement. They probably just drop food occasionally for the poor suckers that get tricked into pushing a button to stop a mistake that the DI made 30 years prior. (1992 sounds late for the purge, but from Lostpedia, "The exact year the Purge occurred was not mentioned during Ben's flashback in 'The Man Behind the Curtain'; however, Horace Goodspeed told Locke in a dream that he had been dead for twelve years. Assuming Locke's dream was supposed to take place in 2004, it places the Purge in 1992. ('Cabin Fever')").
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May 27, 2010 02:49
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Robotnik DDS posted:It is also possible that Mikhail or someone else at the Flame requested a food drop before it's destruction as this was one of the computer's commands. Yeah, I'm not sure if the Flame blowing up was after the Swan blowing up or not, and I don't really want to look it up. It would be really weird for Mikhail to request a food drop knowing that these random dorks were now running around in the Swan, which I assume he did given that he was in the communication hatch on the island. The DI have their weird pendulum station off island, at least before Eloise Hawking took it over or whatever, so presumably they can accommodate for the time dilation and the Island moving. They may have the ability to request one in emergent situations, and there's also just regularly timed ones or something. I just don't think we have to go so far as to assume these are 30 year old food drops just randomally showing up because of weird timespace distortions.
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May 27, 2010 02:50
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MariusMS posted:The DI have their weird pendulum station off island, at least before Eloise Hawking took it over or whatever, so presumably they can accommodate for the time dilation and the Island moving. They may have the ability to request one in emergent situations, and there's also just regularly timed ones or something. I just don't think we have to go so far as to assume these are 30 year old food drops just randomally showing up because of weird timespace distortions. This theory is also backed up by Mysteries of the Universe Part 5 which describes the church ordering food and supplies in the 80s under the purview of Hawking.
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May 27, 2010 02:52
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Vakal posted:I feel like I'm missing something about the whole "babies cannot be conceived and then born here," plot-line. My theory after reading about Taweret is that when the statue was smashed it might have had an effect on childbearing. However, this does not add up when other births are taken into account like Ethan, and Aaron. Maybe it was only boys that could be born on island?
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May 27, 2010 02:54
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Eloise Hawking says The Lamppost pendulum was created by a brilliant man. Tom Friendly describes Alvar Hanso as a brilliant man. Sounds credible enough for Lost - Hanso built the Lamppost pendulum. The DeGroots probably built The Lamppost station itself. That would also imply that the DeGroots were the scientists, and Hanso was the mystic. Switching gears: When Desmond goes down the golden hole, there are two skeletons, right? One would be Mom's bones, and other MiB's bones. The smoke comes out the hole, and the body gets xeroxed and washes out the back. Desmond turns off the light and gets hauled out the same way. Jack didn't get xeroxed or turn into smoke because he was already inside when the light came back on, but he washed out to the same place we saw MiB. We never got to see Mom get smokified, but she sure knew it was a fate worse than death, so it probably happened. Also she can fill in a well and kill a village of dudes in just a few minutes. Only a smoke monster is so precise. The theory at least leaves no loose ends, since two known or suspected smoke monsters = two sets of bones. Of course, that means MiB has three bodies - one bones, one in the cave, and one John Locke on the rocks. Which I'm going to invent and drink right now.
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May 27, 2010 02:56
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Robotnik DDS posted:This theory is also backed up by Mysteries of the Universe Part 5 which describes the church ordering food and supplies in the 80s under the purview of Hawking. Yea, I just rewatched MotU on the bluray and it gives some very interesting information about the DI, everyone should watch it for a little insight. Everyone who hasn't seen this and wants to know more about the Dharma Initiative watch this video. It's 1 of 7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=453bIIq2o0I Haha they even poke fun at the fact that Hawking and Faraday don't share the last name. I don't remember that. redz fucked around with this message at 03:47 on May 27, 2010 |
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May 27, 2010 02:57
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ITILPrince posted:Eloise Hawking says The Lamppost pendulum was created by a brilliant man. Tom Friendly describes Alvar Hanso as a brilliant man. Sounds credible enough for Lost - Hanso built the Lamppost pendulum. The DeGroots probably built The Lamppost station itself. That would also imply that the DeGroots were the scientists, and Hanso was the mystic. Somewhat related, how could anyone carve hieroglyphics on the cork? Seems like there'd have to have been an Egyptian Desmond or it was done by some kind of god. Or the protector/smoke can go down there, and an Egyptian protector/smoke did it.
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May 27, 2010 02:58
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redz posted:Yea, I just rewatched MotU on the bluray and it gives some very interesting information about the DI, everyone should watch it for a little insight. I have no idea what that is, so I'll check it out
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May 27, 2010 02:59
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ITILPrince posted:Eloise Hawking says The Lamppost pendulum was created by a brilliant man. Tom Friendly describes Alvar Hanso as a brilliant man. Sounds credible enough for Lost - Hanso built the Lamppost pendulum. The DeGroots probably built The Lamppost station itself. That would also imply that the DeGroots were the scientists, and Hanso was the mystic. I don't see the necessity of the bodies being "xeroxed". Why can't their bodies in the cave be enough? Those could be other people who tried and failed to reach the cork. I also think that if you subscribe to the multiple smoke monster theory, maybe only people under certain conditions can be transformed, say being an active candidate or being groomed to be a protector. This would also explain why MiB was the only one we saw being transformed as opposed because he's the only active candidate who went in there. Another consideration is that since the light/EM radiation seems to perhaps manifest it self in several different kinds of superpowers, maybe smoke is just the one that MiB was predisposed to.
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May 27, 2010 03:02
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How can a theory that has no supporting evidence, has no effect on the understanding of what transpired (making it essentially useless), and needlessly complicates something simple have 'no loose ends'? Why would they want to xerox a body? Maybe deeper inside the cave there's a small theme park in which the All-Father rides alongside the lifeless bodies of those who enter, taking heavenly Polaroids of their dead faces, only to later deposit them by an outlet to be found. Ashrik fucked around with this message at 03:13 on May 27, 2010 |
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May 27, 2010 03:08
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Robotnik DDS posted:I don't see the necessity of the bodies being "xeroxed". Why can't their bodies in the cave be enough? Those could be other people who tried and failed to reach the cork. I also think that if you subscribe to the multiple smoke monster theory, maybe only people under certain conditions can be transformed, say being an active candidate or being groomed to be a protector. This would also explain why MiB was the only one we saw being transformed as opposed because he's the only active candidate who went in there. Because other people are off camera stories. I admit it doesn't make a lot of sense, but it does make a circle instead of an open arc. I think there were two smoke monsters total. One was Mom, and she could have been on the island a LONG time before murdering a castaway and stealing her babies. Long enough to have had an Egyptian or pre-Egyptian culture grow up around her on the island and worship the smoke monster, only to have them all somehow betray her so badly that she wants nothing to do with the outside world again. The other smoke monster was MiB. Although I do like the thought that he "survived" because he was a candidate, that's a good backup theory if mine is wrong. But Lost is not Heroes, so I don't agree with your last point, sorry.
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May 27, 2010 03:09
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McNameeeeeeeeeeeeee posted:If, hypothetically, someone who had not seen the show asked for a plot synopsis encompassing the entire story from start to finish in 200 words or less, what would you say to them? LOST is about a group of strangers on a commercial flight from Australia who crash on a mysterious and mystical island in the Pacific Ocean that contains the very essence and beginnings of life itself. In the past, this island has been inhabited by ancient civilizations and modern scientists who wanted to learn more about the island's properties. Some of these properties include: abundances of electromagnetic energy, accelerated biological healing, time and space traveling capabilities. The people who crashed on the island are unaware of all this, and along with us, the viewers, slowly uncover the island's past and it secrets. Eventually, these people become crucially involved in the current history of the island and find out they were destined/recruited to come to the island by a god who fights protect it and contain an evil force (the notorious smoke monster) that wishes to leave it. The story is told through character-centric episodes that flash backwards or forwards from the present to reveal crucial plot points as well as help us to understand who these characters are and what their motivations are. In general, LOST is a pretty complicated sci-fi show, but it is also pretty awesome.
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May 27, 2010 03:09
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Robotnik DDS posted:It is also possible that Mikhail or someone else at the Flame requested a food drop before it's destruction as this was one of the computer's commands. Yeah, I like this idea, that the food drop was for the Others, and the survivors bogarted it.
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May 27, 2010 03:09
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ITILPrince posted:Because other people are off camera stories. I admit it doesn't make a lot of sense, but it does make a circle instead of an open arc. I think there were two smoke monsters total. I understand what you mean in general though I disagree. Also I think superpowers is maybe a misnomer as I don't necessarily mean Hurley/Miles/Walt kind of thing as those mostly manifested pre-island, but more like of one of the many phenomena that the light produces on the island. Although the trick, I suppose is figuring out if any of them were decided by Jacob or the island itself.
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May 27, 2010 03:16
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