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I know almost nothing about assault rifles, except that I want one. It will be a training/range toy or of use in a Katrina type situation (SHTF, whatever). I need some advice to make sure I'm not missing something. Ammunition: I'd prefer 7.62x39. Ammo is in the .18 per round range while 223/5.56mm is closer to .32. Both bullets will do just fine for my uses, so cheaper makes more sense. I don't like AK47s. I'd prefer a modern design that permits optics and is more ergonomic. I'm not crazy about ARs, but they're fine - I don't think a good 7.62x39 conversion for an AR exists. Sig just released a 556 Russian model of their assault rifle, chambered in the 7.62. This seems to be a pretty strong option. Additionally, I've read others recommend products from PTR (http://www.ptr91.com/products/) - I've never heard of them. Any input from you guys? I'd like a quality piece, not an SKS type. Are there some good options out there I'm not considering?
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| # ¿ Jun 13, 2011 01:26 |
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| # ¿ May 25, 2013 02:43 |
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Well I feel pretty god drat stupid. I promise I checked prices first...but obviously I'm looking in the wrong places. I know nothing about the trend of ammo prices - do surplus 223 and 7.62 stay approximately the same price range or is this a temporary thing right now?
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| # ¿ Jun 13, 2011 01:35 |
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Thanks for the input. Both the Sig 556 and the SCAR are on my radar (the SCAR being 5.56 or 7.62 NATO only - so I had excluded it previously). The SCAR looks just awesome, but with a pretty significant price tag.Pitch posted:Shooting the wrong color people in your neighborhood? Just because we've had a class 5 hurricane strike and up end our town doesn't mean people of XXXX color should be walking down my street. I'm not the type to sign on to the end of the world scenarios for weapon selection. But living where I do, a very short term lapse in police services could occur. An easily carried carbine makes sense.
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| # ¿ Jun 13, 2011 01:57 |
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Sarcasm isn't this complicated.
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| # ¿ Jun 13, 2011 02:04 |
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Pitch posted:Nope you guys are dim not even I bit at that. Correct.
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| # ¿ Jun 13, 2011 02:09 |
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Craptacular posted:If you're looking at the SIG, read this review: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=76887 Thanks, I saw this earlier in the day. While I think his particular gun is a lemon, there is enough feedback on the 556R to warrant holding off until they work out the bugs. The light primer strikers, the piss poor ejection when manually operating the bolt, etc. need to be addressed. But, now that I've been shown the error of my "7.62 only" ways - the world of assault rifles is back open so I'm not particularly limited. wilfoy posted:Honestly, in a Katrina scenario I would want an AR-15 to protect myself from the NOPD. They were riding around straight-up murdering people. That poo poo made me sick. Those fucks were point blank shooting unarmed people. I haven't followed the criminal cases closely, but I think most of them got what they deserved (jail time) - at least those who were caught. But yea, basically when the law ain't watching mob mentality take over and humans do frightening things to each other. I doubt any of us will allow ourselves to be a victim.
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| # ¿ Jun 13, 2011 02:12 |
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Chantilly Say posted:Eh, I call what I see. In this instance I was wrong, and I apologize, Juice. Don't sweat it. I was surprised anyone was taking it seriously - but text isn't the clearest medium of communication. Redleg posted:My dearest TFR, A friend of mine just got the XD in .45 (or XDM or something like that) and I had a chance to shoot it. The ergonomics are pretty good, though it's probably not great for folks with smaller hands. I didn't find the trigger particularly good - but somewhat consistent with other striker fired guns (I was shooting a tuned 1911 that day and another friend's glock - I found the glock and XD had about the same trigger just from casual observation). I'm not sure the XD is particularly easy to carry relative to other guns, but it's certainly doable. It's just a touch thicker than I'd want to carry on a routine basis. I left thinking the XD was a well made gun. Juice fucked around with this message at Jun 13, 2011 around 14:07 |
| # ¿ Jun 13, 2011 14:01 |
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I'm presently looking hard at the SCAR and Bushmaster Masada. I really like them, but I know someone is going to call me a fool for considering spending that money when a servicable AR can be had for a third the cost. I wish the PS90 was available in a non-moon people cartridge. I'd be happier with that I think.
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| # ¿ Jun 15, 2011 17:55 |
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Gray Stormy posted:The SCAR is a ton of fun to shoot. Not so fun to be next to however. Yea the muzzle blast on the sides is pretty terrible they say.
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| # ¿ Jun 15, 2011 18:18 |
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To shift the topic a bit - a week or so ago I asked about 7.62x39 guns that were not AKs or SKSs. I'm still waffling around between SCAR/Bushmaster ACR options if I go 556, and I've become aware of the PTR guns chambered in 7.62x39. I see Mishaco has even sold them in the past, so perhaps they meet with his approval. Does TFR's collective wisdom have anything to say about the PTR-32 model? It's not as slick as the SCAR, of course, but it's a pretty big price difference. I'm looking for something for fun, 3 gun (not serious competition), and SHTF appropriateness.
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| # ¿ Jun 18, 2011 16:11 |
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Tubgirl Cosplay posted:I'm not sure why you started with asking for a cheap do-everything apocalypse gun then proceeded to ignore real combat arms with a long history of excelling at being cheap, reliable, and low-maintenance in your specified caliber in favor of crazy barely-tested range toy rechamberings of guns that never really did that stuff in the first place. Maybe you need to clarify what it really is you're looking for? Maybe I'm just a fickle bitch. I can't really explain well what I'm looking for - but everything you guys say on the topic helps me get a bit straighter in my head, so the advice is well taken. Juice fucked around with this message at Jun 18, 2011 around 22:04 |
| # ¿ Jun 18, 2011 21:48 |
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Tubgirl Cosplay posted:You might want to reconsider why you decided on 7.62x39 - it was discussed earlier, and you've got the right idea that ammo cost is the really big factor, but .223 is very close to the same thing in cost terms. You keep bringing up very modern Western firearms, so I assume that's more of what you want, while anything decent built for x39 is going to be anything but. It's an outdated combloc caliber with very limited gimmick platforms in the West; by contrast Americans (and, hell, Russians for that matter) make eeeeeverything chambered in .223 now, you can pretty much have your pick of designs and features. Thanks for the honest feedback. It's not unrealistic that I may just need a good shaking, and maybe a slap or two to get my head out of the clouds. I really didn't want a 556/223 - for probably just silly reasons - it might be the smart decision because I want a modern gun.
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| # ¿ Jun 19, 2011 02:51 |
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The Rat posted:It's not like you need to sit on the pot reading a Shotgun News or other gun catalog wondering "What kind of rifle defines me as a person?" Get out of my head!
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| # ¿ Jun 19, 2011 12:14 |
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His Divine Shadow posted:I do the coke can thing at 50 yards and plus myself, but with handguns. Your penis must be massive.
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| # ¿ Jun 23, 2011 21:22 |
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Capn Beeb posted:Everywhere you want. What game is that?
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| # ¿ Aug 3, 2011 01:26 |
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Kommienzuspadt posted:2 questions- For IDPA I use a rig from Cedar Ridge Saddlery. I put a review of it in the holster thread (I think it's gone to archives now - "Skin that Hogleg" I think was its title). I use the Gunsite Omega, a couple single mag pouches, and a belt. Great service, great product. http://cedarridgesaddlery.com/concealedcarry/ Edit: 
Juice fucked around with this message at Aug 5, 2011 around 02:30 |
| # ¿ Aug 5, 2011 02:21 |
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Itchy Itchiford posted:What does TFR think about 3rd gen Smith and Wesson semi-autos? I have a chance to pick up this pistol for $300. I shot a 45 version of this (4509 or something) and found it just terrible. Bad trigger, mediocre grip, poor ergonomics, bad trigger. If you have an officer's 1911 you enjoy, that Smith might disappoint you.
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| # ¿ Jan 24, 2012 01:09 |
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Obviously, opinions are like assholes. Every gun out there some people love them and others hate them. I'm not a fan of the S&W autos, so take that into consideration with my comment on them. IR likes them, and he knows his stuff...so they can't be really bad. As a last ditch effort...consider a used P6 (P225) instead. Single stack 9mm goodness for plinking. Probably can't be hand for 300, but pretty close. A better designed gun, imo.
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| # ¿ Jan 24, 2012 01:58 |
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gimpsuitjones posted:I mean why do you carry in the US? What eventuality are you preparing for there? There's a fair bit of visiousness possible in the US. I'm sure for every violent mugging or home breaking there are X as many that aren't violent, but the fact remains that sometimes people commit crimes and kill/surprise sex/viciously injure the victim just because. People working in convenience stores sometimes get shot even while the robbers take all the money and meet no resistance. It happens here. Of course it doesn't happen everywhere in the country - but when you see stories on the news where 3 guys kick in some family's door and kill/surprise sex everyone during a robbery, it doesn't take too long to get yourself determined to kill every and all motherfuckers who come through your door uninvited. That makes life much tougher on the good-hearted theives who just want your property and don't want to hurt you. Such is life. I'm glad you don't have these threats where you live. The US isn't a super dangerous place, but things happen and our 24/7 media coverage makes sure we're all aware of it when it does. Fear = gun sales.
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| # ¿ Feb 3, 2012 14:11 |
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Cumshot in the Dark posted:Bummey: Yes, she is dead set on a revolver, mostly because the mild arthritis in her hands makes it very difficult for her to load semi auto mags. I gave her a standard CZ75 16 rounder and some 9mm and she had quite a bit of difficulty loading it even half way. Have you considered a two gun solution? A range gun to practice with and a carry gun. The range gun might be a 686 - the fundamentals are the same, but it's a pleasure to shoot and handle. You can put ugly, but soft and comfortable, Hogues on it and she won't suffer pain during practice. Then to carry, a gun where lightweight and a compact footprint are key in actually getting her to carry it (and to work it into her wardrobe/purse selection). For that, LCP is fine, as is a variety of the Smith and Wesson airweights (I love the 642 type myself). E: I was just going to recommend the 642, but I was concerned it wouldn't be comfortable at the range and that may impact her willingness to practice.
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| # ¿ Feb 11, 2012 16:25 |
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Cyrano4747 posted:1) what state and city do you live in? Unfortunately if you live in, say, Chicago or NYC you're just hosed because your municipality thinks you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun. This is really good advice. Read #5 again. As a woman, drawing a gun will escalate the situation immediately, as your aggressor will perhaps doubt your willingness to use it and may feel emboldened to try and take it away from you. Basically as Cyrano says, if you draw your gun it better be a life or death situation - because you likely just turned it into one. Once the gun is out, you run the risk of losing control of it, so you're going to have to shoot if the bad guy doesn't do an immediate 180 and haul rear end. The above is 100% true for men as well. It's just more likely a male bad guy will question his victim's resolve when the victim is a woman. Also, I'd recommend you take some handgun self defense training and focus on developing the right mindset before you carry. These courses can help you stay out of bad situations simply by becoming more aware of your surroundings.
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| # ¿ Feb 12, 2012 04:20 |
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Phineus posted:A Sig 1911 give me reasons why I shouldn't get one. Because external extractors make baby Jesus cry? If you select from their "1911 Traditional" models you will have a 1911 that fits in normal 1911 government holsters. The other offerings from Sig have a slightly wider slide which can prove problematic. Sigs are good guns, I can't offer an objection. The only traditional model with a rail is the tac-ops (http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProd...nal-tacops.aspx) and it probably can be had for $1,000. (correction, 850: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vi...?Item=272302128) Just recently I asked myself why I purchased a full sized 1911. My hands aren't big enough to use the full size grip. In fact, my compact (1 round shorter than a full size) fits my hands perfectly. If you're going for a carry piece, you might consider looking at a compact model if your hands don't need the extra 1/2" of grip (like me). You can still jam 8 round mags in it. I was about to blather on about other options...but I don't think I can offer any. The Sig tacops has front strap checkering and, in that price range, I don't know of any apples to apples competitors. Ruger makes a pretty new 1911, but I think market demand has it priced similarly to the Sig, without the rail or front strap checkering. Basically, if you're OK with the external extractor, the Sig appears to be a pretty good call. E: Are you open to spending more, or is the Sig in your target price range? Juice fucked around with this message at Feb 20, 2012 around 03:49 |
| # ¿ Feb 20, 2012 03:33 |
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bulletsponge13 posted:Where are you seeing Ruger priced with Sig? Never buy anything from them. I haven't seen a Ruger for more than 700, Never seen a Sig for less than 850 (before your link it was ~1000. I took a real half rear end swing at it on gunbroker. I did a search on the Sig 1911 tacops, which I linked originally ($850). Search: http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.asp...sig+1911+tacops Looking over those, I probably jumped the gun. The $850 was a bid-in-progress and not the buy-now price. It may be more like $1,050 when it finished. But there are a dozen or so of them on the board right now, so who knows. The Ruger surprised me, as I thought they were closer to $650. Here's one with 24 bids at $860 and climbing. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vi...?Item=273757933 I assumed it was market demand. Our friend is looking for a railed 1911, so it's not a good fit anyway.
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| # ¿ Feb 20, 2012 04:42 |
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Phineus posted:Why do external extractors make the baby jesus cry? Because it's an a-typical design - nothing more. Internal extractors look better, but I'm not aware of any reliability/longevity issues that should concern you. My protest wasn't a serious one. And per the above, GTAB knows less about me than the guy who sat next to me at a red light today, but this won't slow his opinion. quote:and I'm open to spending more but I'd like to try to keep it around 1,000. I was glancing at the Springfield TRP when I asked that question. I think it's a pretty decent gun, but probably will cost you 1400-ish. I'm not sure it's worth the difference in cost - but that brand isn't in my area of (limited) expertise. Over the next 24 hours, more knowledgeable folks will drop by and give you different input. Based on what I know about the products on the market and your specifications, the Sig seems like a strong option.
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| # ¿ Feb 20, 2012 05:36 |
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Double post because I'm shifting topics. GTAB, you mentioned someplace else you have fired a full auto Vector Kriss 45. This thing: http://www.kriss-tdi.com/products/kriss-smg-45-acp.html You indicated it didn't do anything to mitigate recoil in full auto. I'm surprised by this, given my expectation that aligning the bore axis with the shooters contact point on the gun would serve to neutralize muzzle flip. Did you notice any difference in muzzle flip, or were you simply commenting on the recoil impulse felt by the shooter, and not the flip specifically?
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| # ¿ Feb 20, 2012 05:40 |
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Gtab posted:
Yes, that's the feedback I wanted - Thanks. When originally seeing the weapon and its low bore axis, I assumed muzzle flip would be mitigated significantly. I summarily ignored the internal recoil dampener bullshit - it appears to be a gimmick. I have no experience firing a fully auto subgun, so I have no way of knowing if a system like this (I mean the low bore axis, not the magic spring poo poo) would make a 5% difference or a 50% difference. Sounds like it's not perceivable. quote:They're dumb gimmick dead-ends for now. I doubt anyone can make them worthwhile, frankly; I suspect that if such a relatively simple idea (not necessarily simple in execution, just in concept) were really as useful as they claim, someone would either have done it long ago during the deeeeecades of rapid firearm development and been wildly successful with it, OR someone would have copied this wild new idea after the Super V came out. Since the Kriss was inspired by a little known gun of no importance and zero success, and has in turn been unsuccessful itself despite tons of marketing hype, I suspect it's pretty safe to write the drat thing off. It can be hard to say, based on the success of a product, if the technology is viable or not. Particularly as an observer who hasn't used the new system, or competing systems. Sometimes there's more money to be made ignoring the advancement and continuing to force feed the public what they've become accustomed to (here's an appropriate place to jab the 1911). I didn't take Vector's lack of success to mean it didn't work since other factors are at play. Thanks
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| # ¿ Feb 20, 2012 14:30 |
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Smiling Jack posted:... sometimes I just put fired brass in the magazine. I'm sure there's a reason I shouldn't do this? Used to do this with my brother's P226. drat thing never failed to feed it.
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| # ¿ Feb 22, 2012 02:07 |
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The only downside to the CZ over the Sig, to me, is the short height of the slide*. The ergos and feel in the hand are better, and it's ability to operate SAO is far better. With a little work the trigger can be very good. * The lower height slide, while less convenient for me to grab and actuate, gives the gun a lower bore axis. To be honest, it's a small enough difference that most of us won't notice.
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| # ¿ Feb 22, 2012 23:46 |
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I as well, and not because I might lose the weapon, but because how it will look to a grand jury or anyone else who might want a closer look at my use of force. Living in Texas means I can probably shoot an intruder with a howitzer and get high fives from the cops, but why risk it? An extreme example would be not to bring a NFA weapon to a home defense situation. Stupid or not, the unwashed masses that sit on jury's will view a full auto "slaughter gun" MP5 differently than a 12 guage shotgun used to shoot clays.
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| # ¿ Feb 23, 2012 16:05 |
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ilkhan posted:Aside from losing the $400 of tax stamps and the weapon for however long its impounded, a suppressed SBR would make a pretty good home defense gun. SBR to be more maneuverable, suppressed because hearing. Well yea it'd be awesome. But if you're in a state where criminal or civil cases have been launched/successful against home owners defending themselves against intruders, I'd be doubly cautious about what weapons you deploy. A jury of our "peers" may include people who wouldn't bat an eye at shooting an invader with 12 guage buckshot, but might want to lock you under the prison for shooting someone with a supressed, short barrel assault rifle loaded with cop and baby killing bullets. "It's an assassin's gun!" You get where I'm going with that... Also if you have time, it's a good idea to throw on electronic hearing pro if you get up in the night to check something with your gun. Enhanced hearing + protection.
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| # ¿ Feb 23, 2012 18:35 |
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sean10mm posted:It's really about what works for you as a shooter. This is one of those things where you should sincerely not give a flying gently caress what other people think - and you shouldn't over-think it yourself either. What do you hit the target best with among the choices that are reliable and have sufficient power for the task? That's pretty much it. Absolutely. I have absolutely no interest in learning to point glocks naturally. They don't point naturally for me now, so getting over that means learning that the POI is 10 degrees (or whatever) higher than my trigger finger points. Meanwhile, Sigs, CZs, Berettas, and 1911s all point exactly naturally. That's a problem that doesn't need a solution. If glocks don't work naturally for you, ignore them. There are other options that are absolutely as good. All that said, when I pick up a glock and I adjust the point and shoot it - it's fast as balls and as accurate as anything else. It's easy to understand why people love them. They rapid fire very, very well. I shoot them well - I just have to make a mental adjustment when pointing them (something I don't want to do when using it in a defensive situation). That "high point" I'm complaining about is one of the very things that gives them a light recoil and fast return to target - so it's a trade off. All new shooters should gives glocks a chance. If they feel good and point well - embrace them. If they don't, ignore them...it's ok.
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| # ¿ Mar 2, 2012 13:56 |
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kwantam posted:I think the point Gtab et al are trying to make is that once you've shot Glocks and a bunch of other things, the appropriate metric is the paper downrange, now some problematic notion of how it "feels." As Kommie indicates in his post immediately above, grip dimensions and the like will make one gun perfect for some of us and uncomfortable for some of us. Guns should points naturally and allow us to manage recoil by giving us a grip our hands can wrap around. Each of us is different, so some guns work great for some and not great for others. That's no big deal. Make a fist with your hand. Extend your index finger. That's your natural point. You've had it all your life - long before you knew guns existed and you were pointing to something you wanted as an child. Now relax that fist a little and drop a gun into your hand. Does the gun point with your finger? Yes? Then that gun has a natural point that aligns with you. Does the gun point higher or lower than your finger? That gun doesn't align with your natual point. You can learn to shoot anything. You can overcome any non-natural point. Wheel guns don't have natural points (generally) either, and people have been using them drat well for 150 (?) years. It's not the end of the world to adapt to whatever pistol you've selected. In that, I agree that natural "feel" isn't the end-all, be-all to gun selection. It does mean, however, that training with a specific firearm will require you to overcome an additional complication if it doesn't point naturally. poopgiggle posted:I am used to the 1911/M&P/SIG type grip angle but all I need to do to get Glocks to point well is roll my shoulders forward. Someone on BEnos was asking for tips on how to move from shooting Single Stack to a G34 in Production and someone gave him that advice. I tried it and sure enough, Glocks suddenly made sense. I'm the same way - I'll give this a try.
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| # ¿ Mar 2, 2012 14:32 |
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Kommienzuspadt posted:When guiding a new shooter in the selection of their first pistol, you should emphasize things like quality, durability and reliability first, and other considerations like price point, caliber, aftermarket, and size relative to the intended use of the pistol second. Third and dead last should be the intangible elements that makes somebody "like" a gun like its construction, physical appearance, and "feel" in the hand. These will have no bearing on how well you can shoot the pistol and really are only considerations designed to make them satisfied with their choice. Ideally they won't be mentioned until they are choosing between 2 similarly good pistols. Uh, I just don't understand how anyone could say that the feel of the gun in the hand of a new shooter is "dead last" in priority. You're disconnected to reality. We test drive cars before we buy them...not to determine durability, reliability, economics, color, aftermarket. We do it to determine the feel of the car. And go/no-go decisions on those purchases are heavily impacted by that test drive. To suggest a new shooter shouldn't regard the feel of the gun in their hand as important is absurd. A veteran shooter might not need to regard that as important...knowing they can overcome "feel" with training. But that isn't the case for a new shooter.
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| # ¿ Mar 2, 2012 15:15 |
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Drav posted:Buying a gun by "feel" set me back about 10 years when it was all said and done. Buy the best and practice with it, quit pussing out. Simple. Do not construe my point to indicate feel and only feel is important. Kommie's other priorities are fine. Feel, however, is misplaced. I don't know what pistol you selected that set you back, but I'm willing to wager you didn't heed the other priorities in Kommie's list. Drav posted:If the new shooter isn't going to train up on their weapon then I really don't care what they buy at all. The reality is that their willingness to train will be impacted by their comfort with the gun. They need to pick a gun that's comfortable in their hand or they'll never get off the ground. Juice fucked around with this message at Mar 2, 2012 around 15:21 |
| # ¿ Mar 2, 2012 15:18 |
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E: Quote is not edit
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| # ¿ Mar 2, 2012 15:20 |
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So we enjoy taking things to the extreme and using them to further our points. This is internet arguing 101. In reality, anyone who asks any of us for advice on a first gun purchase might be just fine walking into a gun shop with a list of recommended guns and instructions to buy the one they like/which feels the best. Glocks, Sigs, HKs, M&Ps, Beretta, etc. would all be fine selections if the new shooter simply selected the one that felt the best....or looked the coolest. Starting with a good list of guns, it wouldn't matter. They'd have a good starting point.
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| # ¿ Mar 2, 2012 16:14 |
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BadLlama posted:I just want one to shoot out in the desert/range to get practice on other then a .22 and if need be home defense. Just keep saving until you can pick up a police trade-in glock or sig. Those guns will last forever and won't put your eye out one day by turning into a grenade.
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| # ¿ Mar 19, 2012 18:07 |
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BadLlama posted:What about a SIG P250? Not advised. We just had a discussion on this in the Sig Megathread and Kommie brought out some good information(http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...0&pagenumber=95).
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| # ¿ Mar 19, 2012 18:40 |
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DJExile posted:That's where I drop in my Jesus Jones cassette Enjoy your hi point pistol whipping
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| # ¿ Apr 12, 2012 15:51 |
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| # ¿ May 25, 2013 02:43 |
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areyoucontagious posted:Is there a way to shorten the single-action trigger pull on a pistol? For reference, I have a CZ 85 combat and want to make the single-action more of a "hair trigger". I've replaced the spring to lighten the DA pull, but is there a way to do the same to the SA? Be careful with that. I had the same done to my P229 and the SA was too light. I think it was about 2.5-3lbs or so and I would occasionally touch off an unintentional double tap after a DA pull. As far as how to do it - no idea, I gave it to a gunsmith and told him to make the DA pull light and magical. The result was a phenomenal DA and a dangerous SA. (it's back to stock trigger pulls now)
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| # ¿ Apr 15, 2012 04:52 |
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