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So I just rewatched episode 7, "The War Prayer", and Sinclair brings up something that I don't feel is ever resolved in the series. In "The Gathering", the Sinclair look alike slaps a patch on Kosh's hand that poisons him (if I am remembering correctly). When I saw this, I instantly took issue with it because it was so out of character for a vorlon to expose itself like that. In "The War Prayer", Sinclair wonders how it was possible for the poison to get into Kosh's suit. Now, if you've seen the pilot, you know that Kosh literally sticks his hand out. This is weird because if you watch the series first, you know that the vorlons are not friendly, warm, or open like that. Shaking hands is beneath them. Sinclair is right in that it doesn't make sense when you look at it from this perspective for Kosh to have been so easily poisoned. So, my question is, how much of The Gathering is canon? Was Sinclair's remark supposed to be a retcon because JMS realized that it doesn't make sense for Kosh to shake hands with Sinclair? Or, are we supposed to take things at face value? Was Kosh just that much more trusting before and after the assassination attempt he stopped taking any risks whatsoever and Sinclair just missed out on his chance to shake Kosh's hand? It seems like a weird inconsistency.
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Jun 20, 2010 11:37
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Haraksha posted:So I just rewatched episode 7, "The War Prayer", and Sinclair brings up something that I don't feel is ever resolved in the series. I believe JMS stated at one point that the reason Kosh did such a thing was that he recognized Valen in Sinclair. The problem with this is that Kosh is a telepath and should've known that the Sinclair he saw was not the real Sinclair. Maybe because Kosh knows what he knows, he trusted Sinclair enough? My main problem with the poison is that Kosh is an energy being. It doesn't seem like poison could hurt something like that. Of course, knowing the Vorlons, having Kosh play dead could be in their inscrutible plans. http://worldsofjms.com/b5/essays/framed.htm Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Jun 20, 2010 |
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Jun 20, 2010 12:01
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Milky Moor posted:Of course, knowing the Vorlons, having Kosh play dead could be in their inscrutible plans. Why did they bring it up? What importance did it serve to that episode's plot?
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Jun 20, 2010 12:05
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In a broad sense, it's about the ongoing theme of no one on B5 being what they appear. This started in the previous episode with G'Kar saving Catharine and continues into this episode with Londo helping the young kids who wanted to get married. Ivanova was theorizing that Kosh's suit may have nothing at all to do with the environment and may just be a smoke and mirrors show to confuse the lesser races. In context of the episode, Sinclair had just had a conversation about the human attacks on aliens with Kosh. He meets up with Ivanova in the CIC and brings up something that had been bothering him since that conversation, and that's that Kosh was poisoned through his hand, which doesn't make a lick of sense to Sinclair. Edit: JMS really wanted to make a ton of callbacks to the pilot I guess. Episode 7 also opens with Garibaldi and Ivanova fighting over who has to take custody of the Centauri runaways. Garibaldi threatens to kill Ivanova's coffee plants to get her to do what he wants, which is exactly what happened between Garibaldi and Boomer. Atlas Hugged fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jun 20, 2010 |
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Jun 20, 2010 13:46
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gg posted:Is this a good show to watch for someone who liked DS9? I know some people draw a lot of comparisons between them and they were competing against each other back in the 90's. DS9 is loving awesome and everybody should watch it. Case in point:  The first season mostly sucks, the second and third are better, then everything after Sisko grows the goatee and shaves his head is solid gold.
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Jun 20, 2010 16:21
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^^^ Nice troll 
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Jun 20, 2010 21:45
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Not a troll, I quoted the wrong person though. 
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Jun 20, 2010 22:50
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Haraksha posted:Garibaldi threatens to kill Ivanova's coffee plants to get her to do what he wants, which is exactly what happened between Garibaldi and Boomer. Garibaldi and Boomer? That military chick from GROPO? I'm confused. Who is Boomer?
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Jun 22, 2010 13:28
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tastychicken posted:Garibaldi and Boomer? That military chick from GROPO? I'm confused. Who is Boomer? He means Laurel from the pilot film. Unless there was a BSG/B5 crossover that I never heard about. And I need to hear about it.
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Jun 22, 2010 13:52
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I scored volumes 3-12 of the script books off eBay!  Got outbid by someone on the last two, unfortunately, but I'll have to just keep my eyes open for them in the future (unless someone here wants to sell theirs).
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Jun 22, 2010 16:27
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:He means Laurel from the pilot film. Unless there was a BSG/B5 crossover that I never heard about. Yeah, I think I remember something about coffee plants in The Gathering too. I'll have to recheck that.
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Jun 22, 2010 16:36
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tastychicken posted:Garibaldi and Boomer? That military chick from GROPO? I'm confused. Who is Boomer? He means the asian second in command from the pilot. See, he calls her Boomer because she is asian just like another asian sci-fi character. They're asian! (But seriously, the lady in the B5 pilot and the lady who played Boomer in BSG are both godawful overactors and deserve that comparison)
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Jun 22, 2010 17:20
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I know there is a thread buried in the archives somewhere in which several posts talk about the planned story arc for Crusade released in the last volume of the scripts, but this information is literally nowhere else on the internet so could somebody please hook a brother up or post it here? I'm dying to know what the deal was with the Apocalypse Box but couldn't afford to buy all the scripts at the time. Also if anyone is interested I have the three Bester/Psi-Corps novels and am willing to sell them for a reasonable price. PM me about it, I guess. I live in China and am going home next week to sell most of my poo poo on the internet anyway.
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Jun 22, 2010 17:52
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Hard Clumping posted:He means the asian second in command from the pilot. See, he calls her Boomer because she is asian just like another asian sci-fi character. They're asian! I don't think Grace Park is much of an actress but she's still light years ahead of the woman in the B5 pilot.
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Jun 22, 2010 18:58
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Noxville posted:I don't think Grace Park is much of an actress but she's still light years ahead of the woman in the B5 pilot. The "Boom goes the Dynamite" guy is light years ahead of the woman in the B5 pilot. It's like they just pulled some random person off the street and threw them into a TV show.
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Jun 22, 2010 19:16
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Haraksha posted:Edit: JMS really wanted to make a ton of callbacks to the pilot I guess. Episode 7 also opens with Garibaldi and Ivanova fighting over who has to take custody of the Centauri runaways. Garibaldi threatens to kill Ivanova's coffee plants to get her to do what he wants, which is exactly what happened between Garibaldi and Boomer. Be Depressive posted:I know there is a thread buried in the archives somewhere in which several posts talk about the planned story arc for Crusade released in the last volume of the scripts, but this information is literally nowhere else on the internet so could somebody please hook a brother up or post it here? I'm dying to know what the deal was with the Apocalypse Box but couldn't afford to buy all the scripts at the time. quote:We discover that there's a much broader problem even than the plague – it had to do with Earth using Shadow technology in ways they shouldn't be doing, and who was responsible for the destruction of captain Gideon's ship. Suffice it to say that – through a series of incidents – the Excalibur crew would have been considered traitors and have to basically be on the run. Further, the cure that Earth would have believed to be the right one would not in fact work as they think it would have worked. Our guys would find out about this, and no one would have believed them. As things unravel, it's a larger conspiracy, so basically – after the second year – the show you think Crusade is would be a whole different show, with much more depth to it, more political, more controversial in some ways, and would deal with the impact of technology on society, would cast our characters as renegades and loners without port, and turn the whole series upside-down. The whole plague thing was really just a way to get the thing going and give them something to do in the beginning while we establish the characters before we pull the plug and change the whole nature of the show into something I think would probably have been revolutionary... but we never got that far. That sounds rather similar to the basic plot of B5. Hopefully in the long-awaited Crusade script books he'll go into more detail.
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Jun 22, 2010 20:44
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Doctor Zero posted:I can't decide if that's my favorite scene or if this is. You are both wrong. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47DfQcHMYLY (Season 4 spoiler) This is the best 90 seconds of TV ever.
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Jun 22, 2010 20:45
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Milky Moor posted:My main problem with the poison is that Kosh is an energy being. It doesn't seem like poison could hurt something like that. Of course, knowing the Vorlons, having Kosh play dead could be in their inscrutible plans. http://worldsofjms.com/b5/essays/framed.htm JMS addressed the Kosh poisoning question a few times, posting links so this doesn't look like a Freedom of Information Act page: http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/find/CompuServe/cs98-05/2.html http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/find/CompuServe/cs96-05/35.html http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/find/CompuServe/cs95-06/141.html
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Jun 23, 2010 00:07
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A Winner is Jew posted:You are both wrong. Goddamn it, this show is too awesome. They're all the best. 
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Jun 23, 2010 01:34
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tastychicken posted:Garibaldi and Boomer? That military chick from GROPO? I'm confused. Who is Boomer? Hard Clumping posted:(But seriously, the lady in the B5 pilot and the lady who played Boomer in BSG are both godawful overactors and deserve that comparison) Yeah, this is the comparison I was going for. I am fairly certain that the only reason why either of them was cast was because "nerds like Asian women". Action Jackson posted:The scene where Takashima talks about coffee was cut from the pilot when it was originally broadcast, and JMS decided to reuse the idea with Ivanova. The scene was reinstated in the version released on DVD. Interesting. I didn't know the original was different. Vincent Van Goatse posted:And I need to hear about it. It will always be better in your head than on paper or film. "This is a nice ship you've got here," Chief Engineer Tyrell whispered. Garibaldi smiled as his hand combed through the big man's chest hair. "Let me show you how we make gravity in space."
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Jun 23, 2010 01:42
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Doctor Zero posted:Goddamn it, this show is too awesome. They're all the best. Nope, I found it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWl1ZteUS8U
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Jun 23, 2010 02:07
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Is it wrong that I've spent the last several minutes giggling like an idiot picturing Londo saying, "Mr. Gauis Balter!"
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Jun 23, 2010 02:30
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A Winner is Jew posted:You are both wrong. I remember laughing like and idiot when I saw that for the first time. Much love to Vir
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Jun 23, 2010 04:02
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A Winner is Jew posted:You are both wrong. I can't find video, but my favorite is the Londo/Morden scene where -- this is too cryptic to be a real spoiler -- Londo says "actually, now that you mention it..." <CLICK>
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Jun 23, 2010 04:57
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Number_6 posted:I can't find video, but my favorite is the Londo/Morden scene where -- this is too cryptic to be a real spoiler -- Londo says "actually, now that you mention it..." <CLICK> Also my favorite. Proves the thread title!
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Jun 23, 2010 05:09
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Anyone for a couple of close friends in an elevator? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NsdQzoIXIE The fun bits are from about two minutes on. I hear you!
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Jun 23, 2010 05:16
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Pretty much any time Londo and G'Kar were together is a favorite scene.
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Jun 23, 2010 05:28
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Doctor Zero posted:I scored volumes 3-12 of the script books off eBay! gently caress yes. I recently got vol. 15 off there, just waiting for it to ship. It will be glorious.
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Jun 23, 2010 05:33
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Well, if it's about picking a scene, this one's inevitable for someone. I'll stake my claim to it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKloZRwLu4 Even just watching that bit completely out of context is still really unsettling for me. Even if you don't strictly speaking like a sequence like that, it's definitely the most memorable one in the series for me.
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Jun 23, 2010 07:40
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I just finished reading Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut and the whole time I was reading it, I kept thinking of how much of it sounded like stuff that JMS used in B5. The way the Vorlons speak/think sounded a lot like the Tralfamadorians. Captain Sheridan mentions Dresden at one point and Babylon Squared may or may not be based loosely on SHF. I think there were other instances but I can't remember specifics right now. I also did a little digging around with Google to see if I could find any other mention of this whether unofficial or not and I couldn't find anything. Anyone else who has read it feel the same way?
Morphia fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Jun 23, 2010 |
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Jun 23, 2010 08:56
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The Big One posted:gently caress yes. I recently got vol. 15 off there, just waiting for it to ship. It will be glorious. Ha! So jealous. I bid on that too, but after getting the rest of the set, I really didn't have the cash to keep up. Maybe later. I visited my dad (who is also a huge B5 fan - he actually helped get me into it) on Father's day and told him I was bidding on the rest of the set on eBay. I mentioned that I didn't have the money to order the full thing when it was available and he said "Oh, you should have told me, I would have given you the cash for it."  Ah well.
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Jun 23, 2010 15:17
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My absolute favourite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7uqCZCgRKU There's something about the strenght of character that I find really inspiring. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9WkQTzAcYk Oh, and this. and this I guess: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMkGVhlQfDA&NR=1 tastychicken fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jun 23, 2010 |
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Jun 23, 2010 22:12
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Yeah, it's also the one moment in that episode where Sheridan MIGHT have the upper hand. The interrogator might just be playing sympathetic, but the actor plays just enough doubt that I think Sheridan might have made him question for just a fraction of a second what he was doing.
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Jun 24, 2010 00:01
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tastychicken posted:My absolute favourite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7uqCZCgRKU My favorite B5 out-take by far is the one scene in the council chambers where Sheridan makes some ultimatum and the ambassadors all erupt with cries of, "Outrage!" and "Unacceptable!" and one guy in the back smacks his desk and yells, "THIS IS BULLSHIT!"
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Jun 24, 2010 01:15
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Gaz-L posted:Yeah, it's also the one moment in that episode where Sheridan MIGHT have the upper hand. The interrogator might just be playing sympathetic, but the actor plays just enough doubt that I think Sheridan might have made him question for just a fraction of a second what he was doing. Well that's not entirely true; I will also watch Severed Dreams from beginning to end too.
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Jun 24, 2010 01:22
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No love for War without end Part 1 and 2? :O
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Jun 24, 2010 01:35
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Habibi posted:My favorite B5 out-take by far is the one scene in the council chambers where Sheridan makes some ultimatum and the ambassadors all erupt with cries of, "Outrage!" and "Unacceptable!" and one guy in the back smacks his desk and yells, "THIS IS BULLSHIT!" Oh god is there video of this? This sounds loving hysterical ThaGhettoJew posted:Anyone for a couple of close friends in an elevator? This is some good poo poo. You almost wanna laugh with him until you realize how hosed up the whole situation is. I watched through all of Deep Space 9 recently, and I'd tell my big Trek nerd friend which episodes I was running through, and sometimes he'd go "Get ready for some AC-TING!" I thought, oh poo poo, this is gonna be good, but then the parts he were talking about came and went, and I was left thinking "this wasn't that bad" (most of the time) But today I realized, that's because I watched this loving show.
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Jun 24, 2010 02:21
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Hard Clumping posted:Oh god is there video of this? This sounds loving hysterical http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dh5nbwmLko#t=3m12s
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Jun 24, 2010 02:55
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Hard Clumping posted:I watched through all of Deep Space 9 recently, and I'd tell my big Trek nerd friend which episodes I was running through, and sometimes he'd go "Get ready for some AC-TING!" I thought, oh poo poo, this is gonna be good, but then the parts he were talking about came and went, and I was left thinking "this wasn't that bad" (most of the time) This place... great makers, this place... NO! I see death. Destruction. Fire. Babylon will fall, this place will be destroyed Fire. death. pain. fire, death, pain, no! NO! (faints) Signs and Portents is still a great episode, though
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Jun 24, 2010 03:02
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The music and possibly direction in A Call to Arms is poo poo. It should have had a truly epic battle at the end, reminiscent of the battle of the line. But instead I kept thinking about the bills I haven't yet paid this month.
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Jun 24, 2010 17:59
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