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Lyapunov Unstable posted:It's not even a civil action -- it's like being charged for financial assistance after not attending any classes. It's just a matter of school policy. If a school were to sue somebody for failing to pay library fines or whatever, that would be a civil action. This is clearly something you feel very strongly about. Perhaps you could start your own thread on the subject.
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Jun 10, 2014 03:43
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joat mon posted:This is clearly something you feel very strongly about. Perhaps you could start your own thread on the subject.
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Jun 10, 2014 04:09
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"Mother of 7 in jail because her kids skipped school dies in cell" http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/06/13/mother-of-7-in-jail-because-her-kids-skipped-school-dies-in-cell/ 
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Jun 17, 2014 07:45
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SALT CURES HAM posted:Hey, so, I spent a weekend in a Texas jail (owned by Hays County PD, the police department that, to my knowledge, receives the most complaints out of any Texas PD) and the circumstances of the arrest combined with the conditions in the jail ended up giving me PTSD. My story isn't nearly as hosed up as a lot of the stuff that gets posted here; would it still be welcomed if I were to write it up and post it? (quoting myself for context) So I sat on it for a while and I think I'm comfortable with telling this story. I'm going to leave out certain details because I haven't even gone to court for this yet, but I hope I'm able to get it across well enough. In late September, I was caught with a small amount of an illegal substance. I wasn't immediately arrested, but the officers who caught me took the substance for the purpose of testing it to see what it was (since I didn't tell them). I, understandably, freaked the gently caress out and my roommate called in a wellness check on me because he thought I was going to commit suicide. The wellness check started out innocent enough (I talked about mental health issues I had been going through but had not properly received counseling for) but was quickly steered into being an interrogation, and because I was not thinking rationally, I made no attempt to leave or tell them to go screw or anything like that and went along with it and didn't think anything of it. One of the officers suggested that I make an appointment at my college's counseling center. A week later, the cops came at 8am on that Friday to arrest me. They very literally woke me up so they could arrest me. One of the officers was the main one I talked to during the wellness check, and he started talking about how he knew I was lying about my mental health problems and how he hoped I would be kicked out of college and that my life would be ruined because I was, essentially, criminal scum. As I was being led off in handcuffs, the officer in question sarcastically repeated his assertion that he hoped I would make an appointment at the counseling center. I only spent a weekend in county jail, thank Christ, but I can say with certainty that it was the worst experience of my life. I was held in a bare holding cell, with no human contact other than my bail bondsman, one man who came in towards the end (who I'm actually friends with on Facebook), and guards who frequently verbally abused me. The lights were on 24/7- I had absolutely no sense of time other than calling the bail bondsman and asking, because the clocks were deliberately positioned to where you couldn't see them from the holding cell. It was kept almost freezing cold and I was without shoes or socks and wearing shorts and short sleeves (they didn't issue me a jail uniform before I was bailed out). I know it's not as horrible as some of the other things in this thread. It doesn't even approach it. That said, if I, an upper-middle-class white man, had an experience that lovely, it just makes me feel even worse about the situations of those less fortunate- my situation was bad enough to give me actual PTSD, so I can't even imagine what others go through. e: I can't shake the feeling that I'm going to get dogpiled or red-titled or otherwise shat on for this. Fortunately, I don't really give a drat. SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 09:59
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No, totally, SALT CURES HAM, thanks for writing about your experience... I was in Santa Ana jail for 2 1/2 days, it felt like 2 1/2 months. It's too much to write about, except the toilets were segregated by race and I didn't poo poo the entire time I was there, and when I got to take a shower in my own shower it felt like the Ritz Carlton times a billion. Jail is loving horrible.
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Jun 21, 2014 05:00
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Soulcleaver posted:"Mother of 7 in jail because her kids skipped school dies in cell" Of course the judge who fully acknowledged it was a huge problem still went ahead with sending her to jail.
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Jun 21, 2014 07:25
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Reaganomicon posted:No, totally, SALT CURES HAM, thanks for writing about your experience... I was in Santa Ana jail for 2 1/2 days, it felt like 2 1/2 months. It's too much to write about, except the toilets were segregated by race and I didn't poo poo the entire time I was there, and when I got to take a shower in my own shower it felt like the Ritz Carlton times a billion. Jail is loving horrible.
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Jun 21, 2014 19:12
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Esmerelda posted:A friend of mine has told me stories about the showers at Walla Walla here in Washington. It involves a lot of avoiding men urinating on you from a distance, trying not to touch other guys while naked and the lines for the showers being definitely based on color and affiliation. It sounds terrible but, according to him at least, actual prison is better than county jail for an extended period of time. Everything I have read has made the point that county jail is often worse than prison. This obviously depends upon the county and the jail, but suicide, assault and rape are often almost as prevalent in jail as they are in prison. If we ignore for a moment that no one should be assaulted, ever; we have to recognize that county jail should be a safe place. It isn't. Our entire system is a loving disaster, top to bottom. The public seems to be ok with this, because they don't believe they will ever be arrested. Maybe they won't, but their kids or their nieces and nephews might; their grand-kids might. Going to jail for a stupid reason like not renewing your license or having a joint, etc; is not a reason to be harassed and assaulted or raped. Obviously there is no reason to be assaulted or raped, but the fact that people going to jail for stupid misdemeanor poo poo face these kinds of risks absolutely floors me. I don't accept this type of social justice for felons in prison either, but come loving on, county jail? Do we hate each other that much in our country that we are willing to turn a blind eye to this sort of brutality? Hah, who am I kidding, we loving celebrate it and get off on it. gently caress you America, you are some sick loving people. Pohl fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 20:31
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Pohl posted:Hah, who am I kidding, we loving celebrate it and get off on it. gently caress you America, you are some sick loving people. Everything you said is true. 
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Jun 22, 2014 23:55
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I am a white middle aged man, no children, good desk job in tech. The closet I've been to gaol is visiting my brother who was in there for 4 years (out in 2) for importing a piddly $100,000 worth of mdma so I am pretty naive, so I am sorry if this question is offensive or insensitive. How close is the portrayal of prison life and experiences in "orange is the new black" to reality? I don;t care how close the story is the the real ladies books yet - and I haven't watched all episodes yet (up to second season) so spoilers are to be avoided but there seems to be a lot of themes in that show that I would expect - like utter boredom leading to stuff like having pet roaches, utter isolation from the outside world except on very carefully organised times.
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Jun 26, 2014 02:42
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klen dool posted:I am a white middle aged man, no children, good desk job in tech. The closet I've been to gaol is visiting my brother who was in there for 4 years (out in 2) for importing a piddly $100,000 worth of mdma so I am pretty naive, so I am sorry if this question is offensive or insensitive. Here's a series of articles from a guy who's friend spent time in a woman's prison.
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Jun 26, 2014 03:41
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^^^^^ I will say that dress for success thing is actually almost certainly true. The feds actually do this. FCI Victorville is always asking professionals to help them do mock interviews. But the federal prison system (as opposed to sentencing) is less terrible than states. klen dool posted:How close is the portrayal of prison life and experiences in "orange is the new black" to reality? I don;t care how close the story is the the real ladies books yet - and I haven't watched all episodes yet (up to second season) so spoilers are to be avoided but there seems to be a lot of themes in that show that I would expect - like utter boredom leading to stuff like having pet roaches, utter isolation from the outside world except on very carefully organised times. nm fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jun 26, 2014 |
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Jun 26, 2014 03:55
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If state prisons are all poo poo, which they certainly seem to be, and federal prisons are less poo poo, then why doesn't the federal government operate all prisons and simply bill the states for the cost of running them on a per-inmate basis?
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Jun 26, 2014 04:23
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PT6A posted:If state prisons are all poo poo, which they certainly seem to be, and federal prisons are less poo poo, then why doesn't the federal government operate all prisons and simply bill the states for the cost of running them on a per-inmate basis? The vast majority of crimes are state based and don't really have an interstate component (or whatever you can justify for federal intervention).
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Jun 26, 2014 04:30
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computer parts posted:The vast majority of crimes are state based and don't really have an interstate component (or whatever you can justify for federal intervention). Which is why the state governments would pay the federal government for it. I'm not American, so I have no idea about the specifics of federal-state interaction, but this seems like it should be a possibility somehow.
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Jun 26, 2014 04:34
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PT6A posted:Which is why the state governments would pay the federal government for it. I'm not American, so I have no idea about the specifics of federal-state interaction, but this seems like it should be a possibility somehow. As long as something takes place entirely within a state's borders the feds have no authority to touch it. That's why piecemeal legalization of marijuana and gay marriage are a thing here.
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Jun 26, 2014 04:36
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PT6A posted:If state prisons are all poo poo, which they certainly seem to be, and federal prisons are less poo poo, then why doesn't the federal government operate all prisons and simply bill the states for the cost of running them on a per-inmate basis? Federalism.
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Jun 26, 2014 05:04
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Basically Congress would need to pass a law mandating minimum standards for prisons, and authorizing the federal prison system to take over state prisons that don't meet those standards, but that is pretty much never going to happen.
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Jun 26, 2014 05:13
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Pope Guilty posted:Basically Congress would need to pass a law mandating minimum standards for prisons, and authorizing the federal prison system to take over state prisons that don't meet those standards, but that is pretty much never going to happen. So it's technically possible, but there's just no will to do it. I guess that makes more sense to me than, "it simply can't be done."
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Jun 26, 2014 05:21
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Any politician who suggests treating prisoners like humans will be condemned as "soft on crime", an immediate death sentence to his career.
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Jun 26, 2014 05:50
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nm posted:
Oh wow - it looks awful to me! I do wonder how much sugar coating is there for accessibility and drama.... Its hard to imagine that the descriptions and portrayals of solitary and the psych ward in that show could be sugar coated though. But my lack of imagination doesn't mean they can't be worse!
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Jun 26, 2014 06:20
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duz posted:Here's a series of articles from a guy who's friend spent time in a woman's prison. Thanks, this looks like a great read!
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Jun 26, 2014 06:21
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Soulcleaver posted:Any politician who suggests treating prisoners like humans will be condemned as "soft on crime", an immediate death sentence to his career. That's not really true anymore it's just that a lot of politicians have been in office since that was true and habits die hard.
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Jun 26, 2014 18:05
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computer parts posted:That's not really true anymore it's just that a lot of politicians have been in office since that was true and habits die hard. Yeah, like drug activists prisoners rights proponents have actually done a great job on this issue and poo poo is changing, the problems in politics is slow and "more pressing issues" are at hand.
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Jun 26, 2014 18:25
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Soulcleaver posted:Any politician who suggests treating prisoners like humans will be condemned as "soft on crime", an immediate death sentence to his career. That's shifting, for some crimes anyway. Drug charges really comes to mind. When you have a poo poo load of people with that one cousin that lost his job, went to jail for a year, and had his life completely destroyed because somebody in a blue uniform caught him with a joint people start going "you know what? Maybe we shouldn't be so hard on drug users." That and the constant stories of SWAT teams shooting dogs, killing people after raiding the wrong house, or severely injuring babies with flashbangs are making people wonder just what the gently caress we're trying to accomplish.
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Jun 26, 2014 20:07
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SALT CURES HAM posted:I know it's not as horrible as some of the other things in this thread. It doesn't even approach it. That said, if I, an upper-middle-class white man, had an experience that lovely, it just makes me feel even worse about the situations of those less fortunate- my situation was bad enough to give me actual PTSD, so I can't even imagine what others go through. NutritiousSnack posted:Yeah, like drug activists prisoners rights proponents have actually done a great job on this issue and poo poo is changing, the problems in politics is slow and "more pressing issues" are at hand. ToxicSlurpee posted:That's shifting, for some crimes anyway. Drug charges really comes to mind. When you have a poo poo load of people with that one cousin that lost his job, went to jail for a year, and had his life completely destroyed because somebody in a blue uniform caught him with a joint people start going "you know what? Maybe we shouldn't be so hard on drug users."  http://www.drugpolicy.org/blog/letters-front-lines-drug-war I've been trying my best to spread the word about this project. The Drug Policy Alliance - probably the most organized and influential organization trying to end the drug war and fix our policies - is organizing a letter-writing campaign for people to talk about how their lives have been negatively impacted by the drug war. Share it on Facebook, tell your friends, all that good stuff. ToxicSlurpee nailed it - if it's a few people here and there, it's easy for the over-incarceration issue in the States to go unnoticed. But now we're starting to get to the point where lots of people know someone close to them who has had their life hosed up from these drug laws, and something needs to start to happen. Before the internet, people used to genuinely believe that pot would lead to heroin and gay would lead to AIDs, and it wasn't until lots of people started making noise and saying "that's wrong, here's my story!" that anything changed. I have lots of close friends who have been arrested for having small amounts of substances on them, and I'm honestly sick of it. At this point I'm genuinely more scared of cops than I am of criminals, and that's hosed up.
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Jun 26, 2014 20:32
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Murmur Twin posted:I have lots of close friends who have been arrested for having small amounts of substances on them, and I'm honestly sick of it. At this point I'm genuinely more scared of cops than I am of criminals, and that's hosed up. And that, right there, has nailed another side of it. When "never speak to police, ever" became good advice that everybody was giving everybody else people started asking questions. When word got out that "I thought I smelled pot" was enough justification for a police officer to smash your front door in and start shooting people rightfully got angry.
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Jun 26, 2014 20:37
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ToxicSlurpee posted:And that, right there, has nailed another side of it. When "never speak to police, ever" became good advice that everybody was giving everybody else people started asking questions. When word got out that "I thought I smelled pot" was enough justification for a police officer to smash your front door in and start shooting people rightfully got angry. The fact that "never speak to police, ever" is a solution to anything is a major problem in and of itself. Who is supposed to keep us feeling safe from actual harm if we can't talk to cops? I've always thought it's crazy that, as an open recreational drug user, that I'm living in a country that has literally declared a war on people like me. The only thing potential victims of the drug war can do at this point is to organize and get loud - it's worked for other issues in the past and I really hope that I can live to see actual solutions to overpopulation of our prisons. I'm sure most people here have seen it, but everyone really needs to see The House I Live In: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0atL1HSwi8. It's the single most informative (and chiling) piece of media I've seen regarding the War On Drugs. For those who are familiar with it, the Drug Policy Alliance is holding a conference call with the guy who made it, Eugene Jarecki, on Monday 6/30 at 1pm. The topic is discussion of our drug laws and what next steps can be taken towards fixing things. Here's the link. Murmur Twin fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jun 26, 2014 |
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Jun 26, 2014 20:53
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This is a great read [PDF]:quote:Entrepreneurs of punishment
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Aug 14, 2014 05:22
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Here's a fun article about how much money it costs / is to be made from giving inmates money. Spoiler: A lot. quote:Shapiro says he prefers the term “commission” because “the word kickback has a negative connotation, and it seems like some person is making that money and pocketing it and buying a Chevrolet or something, when in fact it’s going to use for the benefit of inmates — basketball hoops, volleyball, whatever.” This is the best quote since everyone in this business knows what those checks the sheriff gets are yet no one can ever say out loud, it's always commissions or donations or whatever. Ironically one of the private prisons we're the vendor for doesn't care about commissions since they wouldn't get to keep the money and so they just want someone that doesn't generate inmate complaints.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:34
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There's a documentary coming out that feels relevant to this thread: http://www.inquisitr.com/1550875/a-...de-their-cells/
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Oct 21, 2014 12:28
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The Attica warden doesn't get it:quote:Life inside Norway’s Halden Prison did not seem to impress Conway, who noted that his inmates at Attica would turn the kitchenware into weapons. “Why don’t you just give them the keys?” he asked. “Why have them in prison anyway?” Because they haven't been rehabilitated yet, duh.
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Oct 21, 2014 14:18
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How thick do people have to be to not understand that even in that Norwegian prison will all its (helpful, rehabilitative) amenities, the inmates have still been temporarily deprived of one of the most basic human rights? Does Conway not value Liberty?
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Oct 21, 2014 14:39
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Zesty Mordant posted:How thick do people have to be to not understand that even in that Norwegian prison will all its (helpful, rehabilitative) amenities, the inmates have still been temporarily deprived of one of the most basic human rights? Does Conway not value Liberty? The American prison complex is all about brutal punishment and gives no shits about rehabilitation. The American view is that the threat of prison should be enough to keep people from doing crimes. The other awful snag of it is that American prisons are often for-profit. Some area's justice systems are actually intentionally set up to be revolving doors; as in they know that it doesn't rehabilitate prisoners, the prisoners are given dismal resources when they are let out, and not helped get out of the criminal life. So, of course, they end up going right back. It's a dramatic difference in views and shows a difference in core values. Norway is asking "how do we take criminals and turn them into productive citizens that do not commit crimes?" America isn't asking anything it's just throwing anybody that does anything wrong in a hole filled with violence and horror and wondering why they come out damaged.
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Oct 21, 2014 14:48
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His Divine Shadow posted:There's a documentary coming out that feels relevant to this thread: Thanks for this! I had never heard of Halden Prison but you got me super interested in reading up about it. It let me to a good TED talk on the matter that makes a very good argument for their system over ours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeYkyjBbbNM
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Oct 21, 2014 14:53
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The American prison complex is all about brutal punishment and gives no shits about rehabilitation. The American view is that the threat of prison should be enough to keep people from doing crimes. The other awful snag of it is that American prisons are often for-profit. Some area's justice systems are actually intentionally set up to be revolving doors; as in they know that it doesn't rehabilitate prisoners, the prisoners are given dismal resources when they are let out, and not helped get out of the criminal life. So, of course, they end up going right back. It's a dramatic difference in views and shows a difference in core values. Norway is asking "how do we take criminals and turn them into productive citizens that do not commit crimes?" America isn't asking anything it's just throwing anybody that does anything wrong in a hole filled with violence and horror and wondering why they come out damaged. I know, and for-profit prisons remains the most hideous concept I can think of going on right now in the United States, and makes me want to grab everyone I pass by the collar and tell them about it, even if most people probably don't care, which is insane. The idea of monetizing human suffering would not strike many as too strange. It's really the worst part about learning all the awful depths of this problem, that one could ask the Attica warden, "Do you think your prisoners leave your prison better off as people?" which idealistically should be the goal of either punitive or rehabilitative systems (you "learn your lesson" or you learn to improve yourself), and it's not the fact that they'd try to worm out a "Yes" when it's so clearly untrue, it's that if they were candid, they'd say "No, and I prefer it this way."
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Oct 21, 2014 15:02
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Zesty Mordant posted:I know, and for-profit prisons remains the most hideous concept I can think of going on right now in the United States, and makes me want to grab everyone I pass by the collar and tell them about it, even if most people probably don't care, which is insane. The idea of monetizing human suffering would not strike many as too strange. It's all about the Other; there's never been a time in American history where we didn't have such a population to abuse and look down upon.
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Oct 21, 2014 15:28
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Zesty Mordant posted:How thick do people have to be to not understand that even in that Norwegian prison will all its (helpful, rehabilitative) amenities, the inmates have still been temporarily deprived of one of the most basic human rights? Does Conway not value Liberty? Not many people do, if conversations with my coworkers are any indication. They see it like a staycation* instead of what it really is. Actual quote: We've lost enough freedoms to Obama, what's the difference duz posted:This is the best quote since everyone in this business knows what those checks the sheriff gets are yet no one can ever say out loud, it's always commissions or donations or whatever. Ironically one of the private prisons we're the vendor for doesn't care about commissions since they wouldn't get to keep the money and so they just want someone that doesn't generate inmate complaints. Follow up to this, the FCC put out notice they're going to ban commissions, in the phone sphere at least since that's their purview. Since the commissions were demanded to make up for falling tax revenue, what ends up happening depends on how they define commissions.
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Oct 21, 2014 16:07
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Just look at the widespread reaction to Oscar Pistorius's sentence. "Five years in one of the most brutal prison systems on Earth for the equivalent of manslaughter? BULLSHIT! He's going to go on killing his girlfriends with that kind of slap on the wrist."
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Oct 21, 2014 16:11
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PT6A posted:Just look at the widespread reaction to Oscar Pistorius's sentence. Isn't he supposed to be out in 10 months?
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