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shotgunbadger
Nov 18, 2008

WEEK 4 - RETIRED


The New Black posted:

I think in general people need to stop going to the families for any kind of reasonable response. They're pretty much (and maybe understandably) just on the look out for vengeance against anyone they can find. You can see this in particular when someone who is blatantly innocent is acquitted and the families say "This is a slap in the face for us and a desecration of our loved one's memory". Generally speaking they care about someone suffering for what happened, not getting actual justice.

But the American justice system is entirely built about revenge for the family and all, I mean we still have viewed executions as a common thing. So really it fits the general mood of America well.

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shotgunbadger
Nov 18, 2008

WEEK 4 - RETIRED


haterade posted:

The US black incarceration rate is higher than that of apartheid South Africa. Four times higher.

and a document http://www.aclu.org/FilesPDFs/ACF4F34.pdf

See? Proof that...those people...are just rotten!~Every right winger reading that.

Don't get me wrong this is a great thread to have and awesome to have more people learn about how inherently evil our justice system has become but just a heads up to people just now finding this, be prepared to be even more depressed when you find people unironically going 'heh guess crime DOESN'T pay, huh?' about this.

Americans are loving savages when it comes to our 'justice'.

shotgunbadger
Nov 18, 2008

WEEK 4 - RETIRED


Broken Knees Club posted:

The entire field of psychology was founded to deal with these phenomena and it's a hellish bouquet of bystander effect, just-world fallacy and the Milgram experiment.

Gonna go ahead and throw the rest of the america*.png series in here.





There are exactly two countries who are not signatories to the Convention on the Rights of the Child: United States of America and Somalia.

How the gently caress can people look at this and read that and not just want to start screaming. We are literally on the same level as the near lawless crime capital of east Africa, and that's cool because we gotta keep them lil black bastards in their place.

shotgunbadger
Nov 18, 2008

WEEK 4 - RETIRED


lemonadesweetheart posted:

I always saw him as a character of sympathy but I guess it depends on your own projection. I mean the characters whole life has been completely destroyed by his job.

He's a man who frequently beats, threatens, and generally abuses suspects with little proof other then 'yup he's got a van and a mustache' or whatever, and he's one of the 'once a sex offender for any minor way, always a sex offender IN ALL THE WORST WAYS LET'S MURDER THEM ALL FOR THE GOOD OF SOCIETY'. I guess I can get him being a character who brings out pathos, but sympathy always eluded me.

For real my first episode of SVU ever was when one of my friends was all 'oh hey you like Law and Order, you should see this one' and it was some one where he actively posed as a former sex offender to live next to and constantly harass and tempt a dude who was clearly trying to go straight and get his life together, and then in the end big shock he snaps and goes back to sex offending so we have to shoot him.

My friend and I then had about an hour long argument because I said 'wow it was really breaking the mold of Law and Order to make a main character cop the bad guy of the show'. Apparently I was supposed to go "AHA I knew he was a no good monster all along"?

shotgunbadger
Nov 18, 2008

WEEK 4 - RETIRED


TyroneGoldstein posted:

The only time he really crossed over into 'bad guy' territory was during that episode when they were hunting down an international child pornography ring and he had to go to..I want to say Amsterdam but it may have been more eastern european than central/west and he literally beat the everliving crap out of one of the guys they brought in after getting the nod from the local detective he was working with (a chick, can't remember her name). I think it was more to illustrate how different police work is between us and them.

The only local (as in NYC) case of beating the crap out of a perp wasn't actually shown on screen but rather implied when Fin and Munch took the drug dealer that knew where that cop's heroin addicted daughter was 'out back' and got the answer out of him.

SVU is pretty ham fisted with how they deal with cases overall though, especially drug cases but don't get me started, I watched way to many hours of that show and combine that with the fact that I come from a household with a long history in NYC law enforcement and I could go on for hours..

Reminder that he literally followed a just released dude around for days going 'hey, hey, hey let's surprise sex someone, come on what are ya a pussy, let's surprise sex someone, come oooon' and then when he did go 'fine gently caress it let's surprise sex someone' we were supposed to go 'oh poo poo Stabler was right all along!'

He's a bad cop and it's disgusting that in this country he's a 'good guy' who we're supposed to go 'aaaw he works so hard and these drat bleeding hearts keep telling he can't 'break the law' because a dude is sketchy!'

shotgunbadger
Nov 18, 2008

WEEK 4 - RETIRED


TyroneGoldstein posted:

We'll have to disagree on whether or not he's a 'bad' cop in intent, but I do agree fully about how he, as well as other television detectives do what 'makes good TV'. People really wouldn't want to watch some angry mid life crisis having detective sit there and basically fill out forms in triplicate and excruciating detail about crime scenes they worked. Reading those on the smoking gun is fun but its really dry stuff unless you're into procedural stuff or are, in fact, a cop.

What disturbs me more about cop shows than anything else is how almost every person they bring in is actually guilty and there's very little gray area or travel in the various perps' motives or feelings. Real life isn't that clean cut.

It goes back to what I said about the way SVU deals with drug cases. Cabot's exit from the show, which was probably one of the biggest drug cases they ever did, was a perfect example of hammy ham fisted 'made for TV' policing, where there are no good guys except for the cops, the bad guys are willing to blow up Law Enforcement agents at a whim for insulting their sexual prowess and ADA's don't scare easily. This paints a very convenient picture about the drug war that plays directly into how many middle of the road Americans feel about the players in that game.



See, this one I didn't actually see. I stopped watching about 2 years ago when they decided it would be better to take it more on a dramatic human interest tip, a la Criminal Intent, rather than what it was for like the first like 8 seasons. Thanks for the heads up.

Edit: Wait..didn't he get thrown off a roof in that episode after the dude snapped?

All I remember about the end is that big shock, the guy being emotionally manipulated by someone who is an expert in the mind of his kind of offender went out and grabbed some girl to surprise sex (which, I love the fact that it seemed to honestly shock Stabler as if he wasn't prepared for it, as if he thought the dude would just go 'yea surprise sex is awesome!' and they could swarm) and they took her to some garage and it ended in Stabler freeing her and somehow the dude died and it was ok because he was gonna surprise sex someone.

I'm pretty sure this was over two years ago though, but hey gently caress it there have been so many episodes of all the different Law and Orders maybe not.

shotgunbadger
Nov 18, 2008

WEEK 4 - RETIRED


mew force shoelace posted:

God, don't even start with these complex goony eye for an eye poetic justice plans. That is not what our justice system should ever be.

No hear me out, if a rapist gets raped....

For real though yea, 'making it even' is the dumbest thing and just furthers the already major problems in our justice systems where punishment is above rehabilitation.

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shotgunbadger
Nov 18, 2008

WEEK 4 - RETIRED


S.T.C.A. posted:

If my crime revolved around abusing my job in the finance sector, and I made 70% of my personal net worth by that abuse, and that abuse was deemed illegal, you're calling it 'poetic justice' if the state seizes 70% of my personal net worth and says I can't have a job in the finance sector again (or for X years)?

EDIT: And we're not even looking at the amount of financial damage my abuses may have caused nor the livelihoods I may have destroyed.

I don't think HE is, I think the definition of poetic justice is. Also seriously stop already, eye-for-eye justice is not how civilized justice systems work, no matter what the crime.

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