The Prison Thread

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HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

I'm curious: Is the US incarceration rate the highest ever recorded? How does it compare with, say, North Korea, or the Soviet Union during the height of the Gulag system?

# ¿ Jul 26, 2010 05:31

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 12:09

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

Fluoride Jones posted:

Currently, the United States' incarceration rate the highest in the world at 748 per 100,000 (I couldn't find any figures on North Korea). According to this article, we surpassed the Soviet Union in incarceration in 1998.

Holy loving poo poo!

How much would it cost for us (or me) to rent a billboard on a major highway with that sentence on it?

# ¿ Jul 26, 2010 05:49

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

Anybody want to point me to a free PDF hosting place so I can post this?

# ¿ Jan 30, 2011 21:17

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

21stCentury posted:

The worst part about this is the fact that each month he owes more than he can pay off by working.

i mean, really, they charge him money for his prison sentence, but don't let him earn enough money to cover the debt. Even if he gets paroled, when he comes out he'll owe too much money through no fault of his own, because even though he would be able to pay off his debt, he's not getting paid enough... By the people he owes money to.

i mean, basically, it's like your Landlord preventing you from leaving the block before paying the monthly rent and allowing you to work for him, but only paying you 20% of the monthly rent per month. How can that fly? How can no one get angry about the underlying situation?

We are angry -- this is enslavement. Society has collapsed to a point where slavery is again open and legal, and we're furious.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2011 20:36

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

nevermind

HELLO THERE fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Apr 5, 2011

# ¿ Apr 5, 2011 01:52

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

So there is this thing right here that scares the living poo poo out of me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System

Now, it says in the article there they some prisons are going to start installing these in rooms to quell riots. Now, how exactly does this not fall under the concept of "Cruel and unusual punishment?" Yes I know, I know, this thread has made a perfect showcase on all of the cruel and unusual poo poo that goes on in prison. [b]But the ADS can't just be hushed up or just disregarded as an "accident" or something.[b] This thing is a good drat torture ray straight out of sci-fi.

Why can't the ADS be hushed up or disregarded as an accident? Nobody is going to hold prisons accountable for something like that.

Prisons could put one in every cell and keep them on 24/7 -- people would just say "well, they shouldn't have broken the law!"

# ¿ Apr 14, 2011 15:03

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

Korak posted:

Bernie Maddoff would get a slap on the wrist and some therapy in your ideal world?

Who is it helping that Bernie Madoff is in jail?

# ¿ Apr 19, 2011 00:24

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

iceberg sleaz posted:

Well, the military and intelligence services are very much privatized and they are charged with the highest matters of national security. There are also many other instances where we rely on private security in daily life.

What is (ostensibly) the purpose of a police force? And what is the purpose of a for-profit enterprise? Are these two goals the same thing?

# ¿ May 5, 2011 14:45

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

quote:

There was no word on what sparked the rioting or further information on the condition of the injured.

When people are crammed together like cattle and fed mustard sandwiches for years, do they need a spark to riot?

# ¿ May 24, 2011 03:14

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

OG KUSH BLUNTS posted:

How could anyone be surprised by the fact that someone that's stuck in a cage for 23 hours a day, fed food that barely registers as nutrition, and treated like a wild rabid animal goes out and reoffends immediately?

People are conditioned from childhood by family and television to see prison as a punishment dealt by paternalist authority in the interest of discipline and good order, and education/media systems discourage/distract people from coming to independent conclusions about what happens in the world around them.

# ¿ May 25, 2011 04:05

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

nessin posted:

No one deserves to be murdered because some nutjob with a gun wanted to kill someone. No one deserves to be mugged. Need I go on?

You're right, these are all horrific things that nobody should have to experience, just like being trapped in a cage for 23 hours a day, fed food that barely registers as nutrition, and being treated like a wild rabid animal

# ¿ May 27, 2011 04:52

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

Pope Guilty posted:

We're not tough on crime, we're tough on the accused, the convicted, and populations which are believed to be full of criminals.

I don't think we are "tough on crime;" the PIC is "tough on us" -- unless you're rich or work/manage the prison system, "tough on crime" targets you.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2011 00:41

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

Scikar posted:

Even a greedy prison administrator with no motive other than profit and no value for human life whatsoever can see that if someone specifically and publicly gets himself sent to prison for medical treatment, he stands to gain a lot more by treating him and complaining about being forced to do so ( and of course implying this happens a lot and nobody is denied treatment) than he might save by avoiding treating him (especially compared to the public and political backlash he risks).

What public and political backlash would the prison administrator risk by not treating the prisoner?

# ¿ Jun 21, 2011 02:36

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

PTBrennan posted:

There weren't millions of people at the protest demanding change there were a few thousands/tens of thousands.

It's not a mistake that you have this impression.

There were hundreds of thousands the the DC protests and tens of millions of people protesting around the world.

You aren't aware of it because it's convenient for power for you not to be aware of it.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2011 16:05

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

Andropov posted:

I am a rational individual.

No, you're not.

You didn't derive your belief system from first-order logic, you're basing it on what you've read or been told and then you've built your worldview on your own irrational reactions to these things, just like everybody else.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2011 01:45

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

Authorman posted:

Did this post in another thread that will probably be gassed or not read by anyone so I will repost this here in the good thread.

Comparing the numbers of people incarcerated in the Soviet Gulags versus those incarcerated in the American Prison System.

I did some study in this field a while back so I still had resources kicking around so here are some cobbled together numbers.
code:
Soviet Union Gulag

182,321,000 1951 Total Population
  1,727,970 1953 Total Number Incarcerated
  1,533,767 1951 Total Number Incarcerated

947.76 1953 Persons Incarcerated per 100,000
841.24 1951 Persons Incarcerated per 100,000

United States Prisons

304,000,000 2008 Est. Population
  2,424,279 2008 Total Number Incarcerated (1)

797.46 2008 Persons Incarcerated per 100,000 
America: Marginally Better Than Stalin.

But then if you look at imprisonment (different than incarceration, imprisonment counts only those convicted and sentenced to longer than one year) along certain demographic lines..
code:
39,683,000 2008 Total African American Population
   591,900 2008 Total African Americans Imprisoned

1491.57 2008 African Americans Imprisoned per 100,000
oh.
code:
18,545,000 2008 Total African American Male Population
   562,800 2008 Total African American Males Imprisoned

3034.78 2008 African American Males Imprisoned per 100,000
References:

(1) This number counts those incarcerated in ICE facilities, juvie, rez, military and territorial jails, et all. which are typically not counted which is why this number is higher than you might have thought.

African American 2008 demographic numbers
Various other demographic numbers wikipedia or wolfram
US prison numbers straight from the DoJ They didn't provide the total population numbers used to calculate the 100,000 statistics so to show the math I used estimates from around the internet which is why they are slightly different than those above.
Exerpts:

Soviet Gulag Numbers
Exerpt:

Thank you! Can we get this into the OP?

# ¿ Jul 13, 2011 20:47

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

Skyworks posted:

What kind of deranged brain even comes up with the idea of charging someone to visit their loved ones in prison, let alone implements it. That is disgusting. How the hell can anyone even attempt to defend that in a serious way.

The idea is that prisoners are not humans and don't deserve any kind of rights or dignity.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2011 05:57

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

Mister Macys posted:

Call me naive/ignorant, but theoretically, what would happen if you made all non-violent/environment damaging crimes a fine-able offense only, and not a jail-able one?

Not much, the criminal justice system already excludes the wealthy from jailtime for most offenses, and the world hasn't ended.

But the point of hyperincarceration isn't to make society a better place, it's to keep poor people poor and disenfranchised.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2011 22:23

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

PT6A posted:

Not that I don't agree with you to some extent, but what would you suggest as a means of punishing people for non-violent crimes if we take fines and jail off the table?

Should the point of the criminal justice system be to punish people? Who does incarceration for non-violent crimes help?

# ¿ Nov 1, 2011 01:31

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 12:09

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

Radd McCool posted:

Anyone have a good angle on why taxes aren't punishment?

edit: I mean like talking points, for use on people who are believers of the Right Wing.

The health-insurance cartels spin their payroll deductions as "contributions"

# ¿ Nov 5, 2011 23:07

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Prison Thread