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Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

CAUTION: Edges are sharp enough to cut reality.


Ithaqua posted:

[edit]
I get what he was going for here, it just doesn't work for me.

I can understand that, Lift amused me, but she's certainly a "Marmite" character. I'd read a book with her perspective because her Spren is a good match and i enjoy her light-heartedness.

Plus i cant imagine she'll be that peppy all the time anyway.

E: Having said that, I feel some of you are taking Lift too seriously. A story with her as a focus character might be told from multiple perspectives. Give Lift a chance goons, lighten up!

Thyrork fucked around with this message at Nov 2, 2014 around 00:32

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Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


DarkHorse posted:

That said, cologne can be jarring. What if a writer used "Parisian" as an adjective, or talked about Parmesan cheese? Some things are closely tied to the cities that created them, so referring to them necessarily reminds readers of those earth cities and can ruin the suspension of disbelief.

I'd be willing to say that not one person in twenty will read "cologne" and associate it with the German city. I'd be comfortable raising that to one in fifty, honestly.

Umbra Dubium
Nov 23, 2007

The British Empire was built on cups of tea, and if you think I'm going into battle without one, you're sorely mistaken!


Khizan posted:

I'd be willing to say that not one person in twenty will read "cologne" and associate it with the German city. I'd be comfortable raising that to one in fifty, honestly.

Clearly none of Sanderson's proof readers did. It took me out of the story, but I freely admit that I'm a massive dork when it comes to lexicography.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012



How about the sequence in Mistborn where Elend is 'mooning over' Vin?

Because their planet doesn't have a moon.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005



Also this is ignoring that as pointed out there are literal Earth fruits and Earth words that they don't know what it means. Plus the worlds of the cosmere populated from a single world that the shard holders come from. And the world hoppers have no trouble understanding each other. Maybe they literally are all speaking English.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012



Hughlander posted:

Also this is ignoring that as pointed out there are literal Earth fruits and Earth words that they don't know what it means. Plus the worlds of the cosmere populated from a single world that the shard holders come from. And the world hoppers have no trouble understanding each other. Maybe they literally are all speaking English.

Nah, Hoid at least has some sort of automagic translator thingy, which you can notice him using in his conversation with kaladin.

Fezz
Aug 31, 2001
You should feel ashamed.

Not to mention Zahel complaining about Alethi not having the necessary terms to translate his color-based metaphors.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Nothing stops this train. We're just getting started.


Umbra Dubium posted:

Clearly none of Sanderson's proof readers did. It took me out of the story, but I freely admit that I'm a massive dork when it comes to lexicography.

Maybe there's a Shin village called cologne.

e: I don't recall mention of Hoid or others traveling between worlds. I just remember the comment about him and Shadesmar(?) in the 2nd book.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014


Evil Fluffy posted:

Maybe there's a Shin village called cologne.

e: I don't recall mention of Hoid or others traveling between worlds. I just remember the comment about him and Shadesmar(?) in the 2nd book.

At one point Rock tells a story about meeting a guy who has just come out of the equivalent of a glowing portal, and that person acts a lot like Hoid and implies he is from another world.

Grundulum
Feb 28, 2006


Umbra Dubium posted:

Clearly none of Sanderson's proof readers did. It took me out of the story, but I freely admit that I'm a massive dork when it comes to lexicography.

What is the word for a scent that men wear? Women wear "perfume", so Sanderson can't call it that. And he can't use "scent", because that usually doesn't carry a positive connotation.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

A homeless person was out on the street, looked up at me and said, "Draft Manziel." Just like that.

And that convinced me, that the Cleveland Browns' fans wanted Manziel.

Ithaqua posted:

Meanwhile, I find the characters that use contemporary English expressions to be far more jarring. Like that character that used the word "awesome" constantly. That was so bad that when the preview chapter was posted, I was sure it was an early draft and the language would be fixed later.

There's a balance between "talks in a ridiculous made-up language" and "talks like a 15 year old kid from Nebraska".

That's because you're used to old timey English (which didn't actually exist) for fantasy.

Meanwhile, using phrases like "He ejaculated quite forcefully at me" would have taken even more people out of the narrative.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Evil Fluffy posted:

Maybe there's a Shin village called cologne.

e: I don't recall mention of Hoid or others traveling between worlds. I just remember the comment about him and Shadesmar(?) in the 2nd book.
It's implied pretty strongly (and was confirmed in later Q&As); specifically, the strangers visiting the Purelake are all worldhoppers, and one of them is even mentioned as saying something in his native language.

mallamp
Nov 25, 2009



Yeah and why are they even speaking English, why would English exist in imaginary nerd galaxy.
The books should be written in XXzzeeqweweffghheerish and come with dictionary to translate it yourself.

Damo
Nov 8, 2002


Yeah, seriously, all this stuff about some words being too "real world" is really stupid.

Especially when there are so many other legitimate things to complain about Sanderson's books. I mean, I love the guy, but his occasional use of awesome or whatever is hardly the worst issue he has as a writer.

Hopeford
Oct 14, 2010

Eh, why not?


I don't think having preferences is stupid. Plus it's not like I think it makes the books awful or anything, it's just a minor thing I'm not a huge fan of.

I prefer when fantasy stories have a sentence structure at least slightly different from what I hear every day because that also makes the world itself seem a little different to me. Now, I'm not saying I like having a lot of fantasy-y terms for everyday things, but that I like when people just speak in a slightly unusual way. Wheel of Time, for example. Even ignoring curses and fantasy terms characters still word their sentences in a way that you wouldn't hear it every day. It's not always there, it's not blatant(most of the time) but when it is, it colors the world just a little more to me. To me--and I acknowledge this is just a preference--it makes it a lot easier to visualize the world as being something different from ours.

Meanwhile, Shallan literally saying "“Yay for originality!” just doesn't evoke that same feeling from me.

I can't pretend there's anything wrong with him using real-world terms in the story. But I can say that I don't feel like it matches the tone he's going for and that I'm personally not a fan of it.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


I agree with that, mostly. Of course let's keep in mind that when Shallan goes "yay for originality!" I think we're supposed to take her for a little bit of a twit. She's like 17, think about how most 17-year-old girls talk in our world. Especially since Shallan likes to present a borderline Manic Pixie Dream Girl persona.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Nothing stops this train. We're just getting started.


There's also the matter with Shallan being a pretty broken person who killed both her parents, making her responsible for everyone thinking her dad was a murderer for years and all the baggage that comes with. Plus her working with the ghostbloods isn't going to make things better when that eventually comes out.

Al Cu Ad Solte
Nov 30, 2005
If you're a chick and get the reference, email me.

Lift's "awesome" seemed like a callback to Vin's "Luck" to me. Just a word to refer to something the character doesn't quite understand.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014


Al Cu Ad Solte posted:

Lift's "awesome" seemed like a callback to Vin's "Luck" to me. Just a word to refer to something the character doesn't quite understand.

Pretty much, except that stormlight is a hell of a lot more powerful than emotional allomancy and a bit of pewter.

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

CAUTION: Edges are sharp enough to cut reality.


Both of these* examples are good reason as to why Sanderson's worldbuilding is great fun.

Thyrork fucked around with this message at Nov 5, 2014 around 00:46

nucleicmaxid
Aug 23, 2007


Thyrork posted:

Both of those examples is abit of the worldbuilding that i really enjoyed.

Well, at the very least your writing ability is on par with the writing found in Lift's chapters. So that makes sense.

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

CAUTION: Edges are sharp enough to cut reality.


nucleicmaxid posted:

Well, at the very least your writing ability is on par with the writing found in Lift's chapters. So that makes sense.

Mmm, if a low effort post here is comparable to a well written, yet intentionally whimsical, side chapter in a book i admire... I'd say that's a good start!

E: Sweet sarcasm aside, thanks for pointing that out. Its easier to catch such things when attention is drawn to it.

Thyrork fucked around with this message at Nov 5, 2014 around 00:49

Lprsti99
Apr 7, 2011

I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
~Oscar Wilde


Just finished Legion, and I really hope he develops the characters in a full-length novel or series at some point. It's a fun little story.

Logical1234
Dec 3, 2013


Brandon Sanderson. Don't got much to say about what I've read. Not because there isn't a bunch of stuff to talk about what I've read from, it's that I've haven't had to chance to read his best works.

I've fully read the Alcatraz series and that's ... Kinda if,

Now what I'm gonna talk about I've debated in talking about in the IOS gaming thread, since the novellas, aren't really a series of stories, just midfield between each game. games. But I have to talk about this simply because I got praise Brandon Sanderson's creativity.

But before I explain why Brandon is awesome, I got to give you a setup. The Infinity Blade franchise is an IOS sword and fantasy game. Main premise. Heroic Warrior goes to slag evil immortal tyrant called the God King. God King has a weapon known as the Infinity Blade, the god-killer. God King kills you, and your son. years later comes to avenge you. Then the game begins. Lose to the God King again, and the son of the original son comes, somehow wearing his fathers equipment, and of course wants to avenge you,

You basically level up a bloodline of heroes, inherit and replace their equipment they somehow are able to reobtain throughout the years , until you can kill the God King. You gain magic rings which can be picked up from enemies, and no matter how many times you lose,the God King is a patient immortal and will wait until someone worthy challenges him. During the battle, you can choose an alternate ending instead of just killing the immortal bastard. After you beat him, you get the usual credits stinger these days.

You basically fight one on one battles with each monster, dodging, parrying, and all the like, but you can't run or skip a monster, a honorable fight to the death is required.

Now there is only, one honest reason why I even mentioned some of the game mechanics. You know how most books based on games completely ignore the gameplay itself, creating an odd disconnected between expanded universe stories and how the games themselves are?

Well Brandon Sanderson, out of some man genius, decided to not only turn every gameplay mechanic I mentioned into a freaking PLOT POINT in the Infinity Blade novellas, he actually made it make sense logically. There is a reason for nearly every gameplay mechanic and it's glorious, in the first novella, simply because tbe plot itself is a barebones IPhone game, he used the game mechanics as the foundations for the lore, universe, and the rules of these games. And not only did he succeed in creating a very unique universe, but he added in like able characters, an amazing twist ending tbat puts the entire original Infinity Blade in a new light, but also set the direction for the the the games to come.

If the first novella created the foundations, the second novella got to play in the universe. It created a backstory for the main villains, transformed the God King from a evil arrogant immortal prick into a slightly tragic figure. It expanded the universe even more so, and set the stage of Infinity Blade 3 awesomely.

So in short: Brandon Sanderson, using only FREAKING game mechanics, created an indepth universe, filled with potential stories, histories, and all of this was for a freaking IPhone game franchise.


If that s what Brandon Sanderson can do with two freaking Novellas, then I definitely am gonna get his REAL books.


(Is it allowed to talk freely about anything Brandon and has written without spoiler barring it? Because I would love to explain how he converts the game mechanics into plot points without spoiling it.)

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Logical1234 posted:

Brandon Sanderson. Don't got much to say about what I've read. Not because there isn't a bunch of stuff to talk about what I've read from, it's that I've haven't had to chance to read his best works.

I've fully read the Alcatraz series and that's ... Kinda if,

Now what I'm gonna talk about I've debated in talking about in the IOS gaming thread, since the novellas, aren't really a series of stories, just midfield between each game. games. But I have to talk about this simply because I got praise Brandon Sanderson's creativity.

But before I explain why Brandon is awesome, I got to give you a setup. The Infinity Blade franchise is an IOS sword and fantasy game. Main premise. Heroic Warrior goes to slag evil immortal tyrant called the God King. God King has a weapon known as the Infinity Blade, the god-killer. God King kills you, and your son. years later comes to avenge you. Then the game begins. Lose to the God King again, and the son of the original son comes, somehow wearing his fathers equipment, and of course wants to avenge you,

You basically level up a bloodline of heroes, inherit and replace their equipment they somehow are able to reobtain throughout the years , until you can kill the God King. You gain magic rings which can be picked up from enemies, and no matter how many times you lose,the God King is a patient immortal and will wait until someone worthy challenges him. During the battle, you can choose an alternate ending instead of just killing the immortal bastard. After you beat him, you get the usual credits stinger these days.

You basically fight one on one battles with each monster, dodging, parrying, and all the like, but you can't run or skip a monster, a honorable fight to the death is required.

Now there is only, one honest reason why I even mentioned some of the game mechanics. You know how most books based on games completely ignore the gameplay itself, creating an odd disconnected between expanded universe stories and how the games themselves are?

Well Brandon Sanderson, out of some man genius, decided to not only turn every gameplay mechanic I mentioned into a freaking PLOT POINT in the Infinity Blade novellas, he actually made it make sense logically. There is a reason for nearly every gameplay mechanic and it's glorious, in the first novella, simply because tbe plot itself is a barebones IPhone game, he used the game mechanics as the foundations for the lore, universe, and the rules of these games. And not only did he succeed in creating a very unique universe, but he added in like able characters, an amazing twist ending tbat puts the entire original Infinity Blade in a new light, but also set the direction for the the the games to come.

If the first novella created the foundations, the second novella got to play in the universe. It created a backstory for the main villains, transformed the God King from a evil arrogant immortal prick into a slightly tragic figure. It expanded the universe even more so, and set the stage of Infinity Blade 3 awesomely.

So in short: Brandon Sanderson, using only FREAKING game mechanics, created an indepth universe, filled with potential stories, histories, and all of this was for a freaking IPhone game franchise.


If that s what Brandon Sanderson can do with two freaking Novellas, then I definitely am gonna get his REAL books.


(Is it allowed to talk freely about anything Brandon and has written without spoiler barring it? Because I would love to explain how he converts the game mechanics into plot points without spoiling it.)

So you ending up becoming a Sanderson fan because he wrote a book about an IOS game you played? I admit I haven't even looked at the infinity blade books yet.

The book's been out for a while so it's probably safe enough to talk about it without spoiler tags, though.

Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at Nov 9, 2014 around 10:10

Logical1234
Dec 3, 2013


Wolpertinger posted:

So you ending up becoming a Sanderson fan because he wrote a book about an IOS game you played? I admit I haven't even looked at the infinity blade books yet.

The book's been out for a while so it's probably safe enough to talk about it without spoiler tags, though.

Technically I was already a fan with his Alcatraz Vs series. But like I said, the subject matter isn't what made me respect the guy.

Its the fact that he took the most barebones mechanics of a IPhone, and transformed it all into plot points, lore, and all of that.

But the way the story is now? drat. First off. The Infinity Blade games are a Post Apocopylptic Sci-Fi world pretending to be a sword and fantasy one. In a far future, Rich one-percenters were given sci-Fi immortality, and with a "slight" nudge from the creator of this method of immortality, Galath, destroyed and remade the mortal civilzed world as a sword and fantasy one, every monster you meet in Infinity Blade? Genetic creations? Magic rings? Very advanced technology.

Now let's thank about the God King, aka Radriar. Also known as Jordi as a child. What happens if you give a confused. Child immortality, brainwash them into making think they are a God. And set them loose on a now sword and fantasy based world. You get the God King, a benevolent immortal tyrant who actively thinks he's the better alternative to the chaos of Deathless warring against Deathless. He assists the mortals, he keeps the fed. As long as they obey him, he keeps them safe. He even lets them send a suicidal family of warriors to try and kill him and even finds a way to use it to his advantage instead of punishing his subject. Isn't he just the Best? Just don't mention Ausar near him, he hates that guy.

So Ausar. Ausar the Vile. He's like Sauron but in Infinity Blade. He murdered his mortal wife, conspired with Galath with constant recreation and destruction of the world, assisted Galath the creation of the Infinity Blade (by constantly being killed by it willingly allowing the Blade to scan his immortal soul and figure out how to destroy the immortal part.) was considered a twisted vile monster even by EVERY FREAKING DEATHLESS. He even betrayed Galath, which would be his downfall. He's Sauron, with the Infinity Blade as the One Ring. And boy, does he become a major player, but not in the way you would expect.

Dalael
Oct 14, 2014

Trolls. Trolls everywhere!



This sounds pretty interesting. I think I may have come across that novella once and never gave it a 2nd thought... May I will.

As for that game thing you're talking about, do you know if its also available for Android?

Logical1234
Dec 3, 2013


Dalael posted:

This sounds pretty interesting. I think I may have come across that novella once and never gave it a 2nd thought... May I will.

As for that game thing you're talking about, do you know if its also available for Android?

Only on IPhone sadly. I have an IPad, so I can play, but it's a pity not a lot of others can play it.

The Infinity Blade were to Apple, as Halo is to Microsoft. Whenever a new phone was being released, you could bet some money Infinity Blade was also gonna be shown.

Dalael
Oct 14, 2014

Trolls. Trolls everywhere!


Logical1234 posted:

Only on IPhone sadly. I have an IPad, so I can play, but it's a pity not a lot of others can play it.


All is not lost then. I'll hijack my gf's ipad and check it out, me thinks.

Drunk Tomato
Apr 23, 2010

If God wanted us sober,
He'd knock the glass over.

Not a lot of Sixth of the Dusk talk here, but I just finished it and thought it was excellent. I loved the Polynesian theme, and the parallels to Hawaiian history. Good job BranSan, I hope he uses this world for more!

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

Hockey is a game of love, man.


Eric the Mauve posted:

It's just my own opinion, but I think many adult relationships work more like this than we're comfortable admitting.

In Steelheart's specific instance the David/Megan relationship rings true to me. David has dedicated his life to killing Epics, and here is a smoking hot girl close to his age who kills Epics. It would be preposterous if he didn't instantly go ga-ga for her.
Yeah, if he's thirteen.

ruby idiot railed
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?



Habibi posted:

Yeah, if he's thirteen.

Well, as Batman teaches us,

Tunicate
May 15, 2012



Looks like Altered Perceptions came out.

enigma105
Mar 16, 2004

His record...it's over 9-7!!!

Tunicate posted:

Looks like Altered Perceptions came out.

I've read two of the alternate Stormlight archive chapters so far and it's pretty jarringly different. Not just the "one choice" that I expected but it's nearly a different book. Names are different, Personalities are different, and the weather is different. The basic stuff we have in the published books is there, but is realized in very different ways.

Still an interesting read.

Not A Hydroxyl Ion
Oct 9, 2007

Adventure!


Just read Sixth of the Dusk. I really enjoyed it, but it left me wanting much more, of course. Is it set on Hoid's world? And does Sanderson have anything else planned that's directly connected to this short story?

Edit: Upon further reading, it looks like Shadows of Silence in the Forests of Hell may be the one set on Hoid's world. So what's the deal with Sixth?

Tunicate
May 15, 2012



Hoid is from dragonsteel and liar of partinel

The short stories are sidethings on nonmajor planets

Fezz
Aug 31, 2001
You should feel ashamed.

Although the WoR readthrough on Tor says that Nazh, the guy who wrote on some of Shallan's drawings is from the Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell world.

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Tunicate
May 15, 2012



Fezz posted:

Although the WoR readthrough on Tor says that Nazh, the guy who wrote on some of Shallan's drawings is from the Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell world.

Yeah, which is why he uses 'shadows' as a swear.

But the worlds themselves don't have anything important to the metaplot, which is why Hoid doesn't show up.

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