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Captain Mog posted:He is so good at the fantasy thing that he makes me feel like tossing in my writing towel and giving up. His books aren't fine literature or anything but they're about the most fun you can have reading a book ever IMO, right up there with King and Gaiman. HBO did such a good job with GoT that I'd about have a heart attack if I heard they were adapting Mistborn or Way of Kings. I have heard that Mistborn will continue for two more books in the wild west era, and then will go on for three more in space. I can't wait to see how it works out in space. :-D
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Oct 27, 2014 06:18
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JackKnight posted:I have heard that Mistborn will continue for two more books in the wild west era, and then will go on for three more in space. I can't wait to see how it works out in space. :-D Two more in wild west, then three in 1980s era urban fantasy, then three in space.
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Oct 27, 2014 06:39
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Tunicate posted:Two more in wild west, then three in 1980s era urban fantasy, then three in space. Even better, I hadn't heard that.
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Oct 27, 2014 06:56
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JackKnight posted:Even better, I hadn't heard that. The Alloy of Law book was originally meant to be a one-off, and has since been extended into more books.
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Oct 27, 2014 07:35
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Read Steelheart. Liked it. The Sanderson-style personalized swears did strike me as a bit more...conspicuous, due to the book's earth-based setting. An occasional, heartfelt scheisse or something wouldn't have hurt my reading experience. If only to reduce the feeling that I'm missing some cultural cues whenever people start cussing.
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Oct 27, 2014 08:38
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Hawgh posted:Read Steelheart. Liked it. I liked Steelheart, but it was definitely not his best, IMHO. The big reveals seemed a bit contrived to me. That said, I am looking forward to the next one in the series (its coming out soon!), now that a lot of the initial character development is out of the way. Don't read this spoiler if you don't like seeing potential plot holes you didn't see the first time through: If the lack of fear is his weakness, how can he destroy anything inanimate (like a building) with super strength? He doesn't fear himself, so how does he maintain his invulnerability?
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Oct 27, 2014 09:30
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JackKnight posted:I liked Steelheart, but it was definitely not his best, IMHO. The big reveals seemed a bit contrived to me. That said, I am looking forward to the next one in the series (its coming out soon!), now that a lot of the initial character development is out of the way. I thought it was only someone who doesn't fear him can hurt him not that his powers only work on someone (or thing) that doesn't fear him. He doesn't fear himself so thats how they tricked him into killing himself.
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Oct 27, 2014 11:28
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omnibobb posted:I thought it was only someone who doesn't fear him can hurt him not that his powers only work on someone (or thing) that doesn't fear him. He doesn't fear himself so thats how they tricked him into killing himself. That's not what I meant. He can't do anything with super strength unless he is fighting with someone who fears him. Which means he can't smash through several floors of a bank. :-)
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Oct 27, 2014 15:39
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JackKnight posted:That's not what I meant. He can't do anything with super strength unless he is fighting with someone who fears him. Which means he can't smash through several floors of a bank. :-) That's not true. It's only his invulnerability that is affected by his weakness. His other powers aren't affected.
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Oct 27, 2014 15:51
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JackKnight posted:That's not what I meant. He can't do anything with super strength unless he is fighting with someone who fears him. Which means he can't smash through several floors of a bank. :-) I don't remember it that way he is just not invulnerable against someone that does not fear him. I think he can still use his powers.
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Oct 27, 2014 15:53
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JackKnight posted:That's not what I meant. He can't do anything with super strength unless he is fighting with someone who fears him. Which means he can't smash through several floors of a bank. :-) Where are you getting that from? It's been a bit since I read the book, but from what I remember (and what I can find looking at synopsis'), his power isn't conditional, only his weakness is. I'm not sure why you think he can't use his super strength unless he's fighting someone who fears him... e:fb
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Oct 27, 2014 15:58
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subx posted:I don't remember it that way he is just not invulnerable against someone that does not fear him. I think he can still use his powers. He can't do anything that could harm himself. Otherwise he would not have died when he clicked the pen detonator. David feared him, so he couldn't hurt him, so it was all about steelheart hurting himself, which means he doesn't have invulnerability when he shaves, or smashes through a building. He only has invulnerability when he is either attacking or defending against someone who fears him. Of course, it's possible he used his elemental powers to smash the building before his body got there so he can look like he flies through several floors unscathed. He seemed to like using sleight of hand.
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Oct 27, 2014 16:04
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Holy_Zarquon posted:Where are you getting that from? It's been a bit since I read the book, but from what I remember (and what I can find looking at synopsis'), his power isn't conditional, only his weakness is. I'm not sure why you think he can't use his super strength unless he's fighting someone who fears him... No, I'm talking about invulnerability, which is separate from super strength. Can't use super strength to punch a steel beam without getting hurt, without invulnerability. Right?
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Oct 27, 2014 16:08
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But you're misunderstanding his weakness. It's not that he only has his powers when he's fighting someone who doesn't fear him, it's that he can only only be injured by someone who doesn't fear him. A crucial difference.
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Oct 27, 2014 16:19
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MildShow posted:But you're misunderstanding his weakness. It's not that he only has his powers when he's fighting someone who doesn't fear him, it's that he can only only be injured by someone who doesn't fear him. A crucial difference. no no I know this. I am saying HE can hurt himself because he does not fear himself. Which means if HE hit an ambivalent object hard enough, he would break his hand. If this weren't the case, then the entire premise of the book is flawed. Also I am talking "power" singular. Specifically invulnerability. Super strength is flawed if you don't have invulnerability to back it up. ;-)
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Oct 27, 2014 16:28
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JackKnight posted:no no I know this. I am saying HE can hurt himself because he does not fear himself. Which means if HE hit an ambivalent object hard enough, he would break his hand. If this weren't the case, then the entire premise of the book is flawed. Also I am talking "power" singular. Specifically invulnerability. Super strength is flawed if you don't have invulnerability to back it up. ;-) Well it's a super power, so the premise itself is a bit flawed anyways. I think you are just trolling at this point.
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Oct 27, 2014 16:43
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The book spends like 2 pages worth of text telling you not to rules lawyer this poo poo ughhh.
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Oct 27, 2014 16:47
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Nah, because breaking your fist against a brick wall ain't an 'attack' bro. Keep in mind the weaknesses can be things like 'get attacked by exactly three dudes' or whatever. Conceptual stuff.
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Oct 27, 2014 16:51
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It also explicitly tells you that epics always have powers that make it so they don't tear themselves apart. Guys with super-strength don't break their bones when they stub their toes. Guys who can fly can land safely. Things like that. Seriously, Steelheart's weakness is easy. He's invulnerable except to other people who don't fear him..
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Oct 27, 2014 16:52
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subx posted:I think you are just trolling at this point. I resent this. It is a simple concept I am trying to present here as a possible hole in the story. Steelheart can harm himself. This is proven at the end of the book when he activates the bomb under his feet. Moreover, he can harm himself at any time whether he is cognizant of impending harm or not. This necessarily requires that if he flew through a building and destroyed it in the process, and the building wasn't wasn't intended to harm him by another person, then he would necessarily incur damage to his person. The explosion that killed him was hardly more force than is required to demolish a building (I don't think), and we also saw a mere bullet harm him, which strongly suggests that his super strength has no bearing whatsoever on his durability. So unless he used his elemental powers to fly through several floors of the bank and destroy it without ever allowing his body to come into physical contact with it, he would be dead. With that concluded, I think that upon consideration that he did in fact use his elemental powers (and NOT super strength) and that Sanderson simply didn't mention it. ConfusedUs posted:It also explicitly tells you that epics always have powers that make it so they don't tear themselves apart. Guys with super-strength don't break their bones when they stub their toes. Guys who can fly can land safely. Things like that. JackKnight fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Oct 27, 2014 |
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Oct 27, 2014 17:13
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Tunicate posted:Nah, because breaking your fist against a brick wall ain't an 'attack' bro. Well unless I am wrong, conceptually when Steelheart pushed that button and died, he wasn't attacking himself, because there was no intent.
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Oct 27, 2014 17:16
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JackKnight posted:Well unless I am wrong, conceptually when Steelheart pushed that button and died, he wasn't attacking himself, because there was no intent. It wasn't a button he pressed, it was a gun he was intending to shoot at David. What he didn't know was that gun had a detonator inside. Still intending harm, just a different delivery method with a little more collateral damage. Honestly, though, you're over-thinking it. Ultimately, what does it matter?
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Oct 27, 2014 17:21
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MildShow posted:It wasn't a button he pressed, it was a gun he was intending to shoot at David. What he didn't know was that gun had a detonator inside. Still intending harm, just a different delivery method with a little more collateral damage. Nothing. But this is a book thread. In a dedicated book section of the forums. I kind of thought discussing small insignificant details would be par for the course. But if I am wrong, then so be it. I am new here after all. ;-)
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Oct 27, 2014 17:28
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JackKnight posted:Nothing. But this is a book thread. In a dedicated book section of the forums. I kind of thought discussing small insignificant details would be par for the course. But if I am wrong, then so be it. I am new here after all. ;-) Ah but this is the Sanderson thread. The only valid criticisms here are about dad jokes and no swearing.
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Oct 27, 2014 17:31
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JackKnight posted:Nothing. But this is a book thread. In a dedicated book section of the forums. I kind of thought discussing small insignificant details would be par for the course. But if I am wrong, then so be it. I am new here after all. ;-) I think that you ARE over-thinking it, but over-thinking things is what I do best, so you're forgiven. I think this still comes down to the conceptual thing. When he pulled the trigger he definitely considered it an attack Either that or you just need to accept that Epic powers come with the extra abilities needed to stop them from hurting themselves while using the power. Think pewter in Mistborn.
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Oct 27, 2014 17:37
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MildShow posted:Ah but this is the Sanderson thread. The only valid criticisms here are about dad jokes and no swearing. Sorry about the swearing. I've edited that out.
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Oct 27, 2014 17:43
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JackKnight posted:Sorry about the swearing. I've edited that out. No, I meant we criticize Sanderson for not using proper swear words.
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Oct 27, 2014 17:44
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MildShow posted:And finally, for a personal nitpick, the prologue makes no drat sense when you first read it, where you're thrown random names and locations with no context, and even by the end of the book, there are still a few things that are unclear. It was the same problem I had with the Prelude in Way of Kings. That's, uh, most fantasy books that do that though?
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Oct 27, 2014 17:54
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Eric the Mauve posted:That's, uh, most fantasy books that do that though? That's a lot of books in general. I'm sure there's a name for it, but it's common in lots of genres to begin the book by either a) showing something close to the end of the story or b) show history with lots of names and no context, and spend the rest of the book exploring said beginning.
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Oct 27, 2014 18:19
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Eric the Mauve posted:That's, uh, most fantasy books that do that though? I know, but it's still something that bothers me, maybe because I haven't really read that much epic fantasy. Perhaps I'm overstating it, though. It's just a minor irritation, not anything that would ever stop me from reading a book
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Oct 27, 2014 18:19
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As a rule, all prologues in all books should be skipped.
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Oct 27, 2014 18:22
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Holy_Zarquon posted:I think that you ARE over-thinking it, but over-thinking things is what I do best, so you're forgiven. MildShow posted:No, I meant we criticize Sanderson for not using proper swear words.
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Oct 27, 2014 18:47
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JackKnight posted:Corespawn it all to hell! :-) That's not even a verb!  This discussion has just made me reaffirm my distaste for superhero weaknesses that are tacked on. It's much better when powers themselves have limitations. You can control insects with your mind? Hope you never fight anyone who can burn them out of the sky with fire. Super strong and invulnerable to bullets? Let's see if that forcefield prevents radiation poisoning.
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Oct 27, 2014 19:38
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Grundulum posted:That's not even a verb! If you have not read Worm, you should read Worm.
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Oct 27, 2014 19:57
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ConfusedUs posted:If you have not read Worm, you should read Worm. Worm is all about the tacked-on weaknesses, though.
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Oct 27, 2014 20:00
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JackKnight posted:Ohh yeah. It's in every single book, lol. You kinda get used to it after the first couple times though. I've seen this used in other books as well, specifically in the Demon Cycle series by Peter V. Brett. Corespawn it all to hell! :-) Stormlight Archives having everyone use "storm" as pretty much their only swearword is really annoying though. I'm looking forward to the next book in that series but I'm worried it's going to end up with a lot of Kaladin depression again mainly because his eyes are turning light now and he never wanted to be a lighteyes, plus he's going to find his family so even if they're all ok (which I doubt), seeing him with light eyes could have people react to him differently and make him mopey. To say nothing of what kind of reaction seeing his parents would cause after failing to protect Tien. The prologue in Way of Kings starts to make sense soon enough and you realize who those people are and what's happening.
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Oct 27, 2014 20:03
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I expect Kaladin to find one or both parents dead and/or missing, probably directly or indirectly done in by Roshone (because of course they will be) and Roshone also dead so he can never get revenge. I have a bad feeling the "Angsty Kaladin gonna angst" theme is nowhere near played out yet. I loved the first two books but I'm a bit concerned that I'm going to get tired of that particular theme long, long before Book Ten. I hope I'm wrong about that.
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Oct 27, 2014 23:01
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Evil Fluffy posted:Stormlight Archives having everyone use "storm" as pretty much their only swearword is really annoying though. I didn't mind this. It made sense in a world where a storm constantly ravages the surface world to a point where humanity has had to massively adapt to its existence. It just sounds different because storm is a verb itself, and we don't have that combination much in our language. There could be more variation, but it didn't detract from the story for me.
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Oct 27, 2014 23:05
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I agree. While I won't put it past Sanderson to impress me, I'm afraid it'll be the same old mopey angst cycle book after book. While I've said in the past I find Kaladin's cycles of emotional turmoil to be refreshing and interesting, I want him to be learning from his experiences and growing with how to deal with it. After a while, I think it would be much more interesting to see him struggling with his new authority and power, realize he's getting into a funk, and figuring out how to deal with it productively. From a narrative standpoint, it can be balanced by his enemies becoming more competent and trying to exploit those weaknesses.
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Oct 27, 2014 23:06
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DarkHorse posted:I agree. While I won't put it past Sanderson to impress me, I'm afraid it'll be the same old mopey angst cycle book after book. While I've said in the past I find Kaladin's cycles of emotional turmoil to be refreshing and interesting, I want him to be learning from his experiences and growing with how to deal with it. After a while, I think it would be much more interesting to see him struggling with his new authority and power, realize he's getting into a funk, and figuring out how to deal with it productively. From a narrative standpoint, it can be balanced by his enemies becoming more competent and trying to exploit those weaknesses. My hope for this is that he'll get back to the others quickly and if nothing else being around the highprince will help keep his mopey behavior in check. If not that then maybe he'll get a chance to grow by training the bridge men who are also radiants, as Kaladin was told that several of them looked to be glowing during the battle against the stormforms, and we know that at least one who didn't go take part in the fight also managed to draw stormlight. I hope the books come at a steady pace though. While they do drag at times (shallan was the worst for awhile) they're drat good overall. Liked it much more than Kingkiller.
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Oct 27, 2014 23:39
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