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Medical Sword
May 23, 2005

Goghing, Goghing, gone


MassRayPer posted:

Are there any sane, rational critiques of SABRmetrics? I don't mean debunking but just taking a critical look at it. I've had some minor complaints ever since I took quantitative analysis classes so I'm curious if there is a good article that looks at stuff like that.

Sabermetrics is such a broad field of analysis/study that I don't know if there is such a thing as a rational critique of it because basically what it means is finding newer and better ways to quantify baseball skill and performance. The metrics themselves aren't perfect but the whole point is to keep making them better than what we had before.

There are lots of critiques of individual metrics (like WAR or VORP or whatever) I'm sure you could find, maybe some other posters have links.

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MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA

A drat FOG posted:

Sabermetrics is such a broad field of analysis/study that I don't know if there is such a thing as a rational critique of it because basically what it means is finding newer and better ways to quantify baseball skill and performance. The metrics themselves aren't perfect but the whole point is to keep making them better than what we had before.

There are lots of critiques of individual metrics (like WAR or VORP or whatever) I'm sure you could find, maybe some other posters have links.

That is more what I mean seeing critiques/analysis of individual metrics rather than the field as a whole.

BackInTheUSSR
Jun 22, 2004

1.5 HR/9
ACE


I had a writer submit this column for the UCF sports section a week or two ago. For backstory, the starting QB Rob Calabrese has lost the starter job in three straight years and Jeff Godfrey is a young highly touted freshman.

quote:

George OíLeary is a lifelong Yankees fan. Growing up in Central Islip, New York, he became familiar with Bronx Bomber history, as does any good pinstripe-diehard in training. One particular bit of New York baseball trivia mirrors the quarterback situation OíLeary is about to encounter as he enters the 2010 season.

Enter the classic Yankee tale of Wally Pipp and Lou Gehrig. Pipp had been the starting first baseman in New York for ten years and on June 2, 1925, he sat out of the game with a headache. He would be replaced by the rookie Gehrig and never reclaimed his job again, as Gehrig went on to start in 2,130 consecutive games.

Rob Calabrese is Pipp: the solid, safe player. Jeffrey Godfrey is Gehrig: exciting, oozing with confidence and portraying an aura of greatness. While there is no forewarning that Calabrese will have to sit due to ailment like Pipp, itís almost inevitable at this point that his fate will be the same.

There is literally nothing similar about these two situations. Like, at all. They both play sports with a ball, and that's about it. Also they are nearly all white people, so there's that, as well.

BackInTheUSSR fucked around with this message at Sep 16, 2010 around 05:58

leokitty
Apr 5, 2005

Well I had to phone his friend to state my case, and say he's lost control again.

And he showed up all the errors and mistakes, and said I've lost control again.

Wally Pipp was actually benched for sucking by Miller Huggins.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003



BackInTheUSSR posted:

I have a writer submit this column for the UCF sports section a week or two ago. For backstory, the starting QB Rob Calabrese has lost the starter job in three straight years and Jeff Godfrey is a young highly touted freshman.


There is literally nothing similar about these two situations. Like, at all. They both play sports with a ball, and that's about it. Also they are nearly all white people, so there's that, as well.
College newspapers are absolutely wonderful places to go for horrible, godawful journalism.

Halalelujah
Mar 23, 2007

And then there was Streep.


Crazy Ted posted:

College newspapers are absolutely wonderful places to go for horrible, godawful journalism.

That blurb was the most poorly thought out and written piece of poo poo I've seen in a while.

I expect to see him writing for a major newspaper within 5 years.

BackInTheUSSR
Jun 22, 2004

1.5 HR/9
ACE


He is incredibly verbose and reads sports journalism from the 60s and thinks that sort of writing is still popular and necessary. That isn't even a particularly poorly written piece considering the other poo poo people turn into me but it's just such a desperate reach for a storyline that doesn't exist. The barebones of the situation is "lovely guy loses job to better player" which happens EVERY SINGLE DAY in sports. The sad thing is I still had to publish it because the other column that was submitted was about "wanting it more" or some poo poo. College journalism is the loving worst.

The broken bones
Jan 3, 2008

Out beyond winning and losing, there is a field.

I will meet you there.

Crazy Ted posted:

College newspapers are absolutely wonderful places to go for horrible, godawful journalism.

@bleacherreportd

zakharov
Nov 30, 2002

One in the pink

The comments on an article about gay couples wanting to be on the Cardinals' kiss cam are truly stunning.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/base...l?mode=comments

QUEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Badfinger
Dec 16, 2004

Timeouts?!

We'll take care of that.


zakharov posted:

The comments on an article about gay couples wanting to be on the Cardinals' kiss cam are truly stunning.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/base...l?mode=comments

QUEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have actually thought about this before at the ballpark. I think the main difficulty is that unless they are already making out, which defeats the point of the kiss cam!, is that basically it's harder to tell if you are going to put your camera on a gay couple or two dudes hanging out at a baseball game.

Orgophlax
Aug 26, 2002




Badfinger posted:

I have actually thought about this before at the ballpark. I think the main difficulty is that unless they are already making out, which defeats the point of the kiss cam!, is that basically it's harder to tell if you are going to put your camera on a gay couple or two dudes hanging out at a baseball game.
True, but it'd really be no more awkward than if they happened to focus on a brother & sister.

I'd just like to say that Tim Panaccio from CSNPhilly.com is a horrible reporter and I can't stand that I have to read his poo poo to get info about the Flyers. His writing (and even when he's on TV for Daily News Live) comes off as he knows everything and everyone should just accept whatever he says because he's been doing it for so long.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



A drat FOG posted:

Sabermetrics is such a broad field of analysis/study that I don't know if there is such a thing as a rational critique of it because basically what it means is finding newer and better ways to quantify baseball skill and performance. The metrics themselves aren't perfect but the whole point is to keep making them better than what we had before.

There are lots of critiques of individual metrics (like WAR or VORP or whatever) I'm sure you could find, maybe some other posters have links.

One valid criticism is that a lot of sabermetrics is fad based and not really well established in good mathematics or scientific critique. Hence the inability to find good critiques of a lot of metrics.

FairGame
Jul 24, 2001

Oh, I feel it! I feel the Kozmas!

zakharov posted:

The comments on an article about gay couples wanting to be on the Cardinals' kiss cam are truly stunning.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/base...l?mode=comments

QUEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't wait until Joe Strauss asks TLR what he thinks about this. Joe Strauss is the worst Cardinals journalist. Not only does he suck, but he's still incredibly bitter about being scooped by Viva El Birdos (a blog! ) last year on the Chris Duncan deal.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA

zakharov posted:

The comments on an article about gay couples wanting to be on the Cardinals' kiss cam are truly stunning.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/base...l?mode=comments

QUEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only stunning thing about that is how many people are actually sticking up for the homosexuals. That is so much milder than I would have expected comments on an article involving sports and homosexuality to be. I was stunned when I saw "exposed to the reality of homosexuality" and it wasn't followed up by how evil it is, and then someone mocking the notion of the "gay agenda."

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Solution: Get rid of all the retarded between innings jumbotron horseshit

Badfinger
Dec 16, 2004

Timeouts?!

We'll take care of that.


Captain Charisma posted:

Solution: Get rid of all the retarded between innings jumbotron horseshit

You would deprive a man of his BONGO CAM?!

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



whoa whoa whoa !!first off if i get kissed im punching someone out, the last time i was on kiss cam i got arrested my case is in march. she was not at all amused i got excited, sorry , anyway ,if this happens will we get barf bags like airplane flights?? enough with the gays!! dont ask don't tell. no punches thrown cappech!!

The best part is that this guy's username is THE ONE AND ONLY BIG AL

FairGame
Jul 24, 2001

Oh, I feel it! I feel the Kozmas!

Captain Charisma posted:

Solution: Get rid of all the retarded between innings jumbotron horseshit

That's really part of a larger issue of ballparks being less about baseball and more about "entertainment and oh by the way there's a baseball game."

Furthermore, retarded between innings jumbotron horseshit is frequently very entertaining. Without it, we wouldn't have the Astros foul ball couple. Or the Presidents/Pierogies/Sausage race.

Or the rally monkey

stuart scott irl
Mar 9, 2007



Admins change my name to "enough with the gays!!" please

jeffersonlives
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."


I dislike almost all noisy ballpark affectations, but I do sort of enjoy the kiss cam.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



I say to each his/her own.BUT.....the ballgame draw families and gays kissing is NOT appropriote for young kids.Sorry.Yes you can be gay...that is fine...but I don't HAVE to teach my children that IT is NORMAL because it isn't. It has become a fad a cooll thing "to be gay",I don't believe that many people are BORN this way.So do as you like,I will tolerate it fine but I WILL NOT TEACH MY CHILDREN IT IS NORMAL

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



I think the best part is that people are afraid that the cam will show them next to their guy friend, and that means they will literally be forced to kiss them due to the Kiss Cam Laws

leokitty
Apr 5, 2005

Well I had to phone his friend to state my case, and say he's lost control again.

And he showed up all the errors and mistakes, and said I've lost control again.

I've seen them put a gay couple on the kisscam at Staten Island at least once. If Staten Island can do this and not explode, so can you St Louis.

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

Taunting penalties only apply to the living.

zakharov posted:

The comments on an article about gay couples wanting to be on the Cardinals' kiss cam are truly stunning.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/base...l?mode=comments

QUEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The best comment:

quote:

Joepa1 said on: September 16, 2010, 12:15 pm
I thought gays had more self respect than that!!!
I am surprised they would admit to attending a Cardinals game.

Tender Bender
Sep 17, 2004

I swing both ways.


Captain Charisma posted:

Solution: Get rid of all the retarded between innings jumbotron horseshit

I get that we take baseball seriously and poo poo during the game is dumb but really, are we hating on between-inning stuff? GOD DAMMIT TURN DOWN THAT MUSIC AND LET ME JUST EAT MY HOT DOG AND CROSSCHECK MY SCORECARD WITH GAMEDAY IN PEACE

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Tender Bender posted:

I get that we take baseball seriously and poo poo during the game is dumb but really, are we hating on between-inning stuff? GOD DAMMIT TURN DOWN THAT MUSIC AND LET ME JUST EAT MY HOT DOG AND CROSSCHECK MY SCORECARD WITH GAMEDAY IN PEACE

Well, at least find better poo poo. Dump things like THE GREAT SUBWAY RACE, Zales Scoreboard Dude, and YMCA. The fan trivia and sausage races and stuff are good. At least the Yankees got rid of Cotton Eyed Joey.

Oh yeah also get rid of God Bless America

THE MACHO MAN
Nov 15, 2007

Hey Vancouver, bet you can't win just one!


Captain Charisma posted:

Well, at least find better poo poo. Dump things like THE GREAT SUBWAY RACE, Zales Scoreboard Dude, and YMCA. The fan trivia and sausage races and stuff are good. At least the Yankees got rid of Cotton Eyed Joey.

Oh yeah also get rid of God Bless America

Who doesn't like the subway race to Yankee you goddamn pinko

Orgophlax posted:

True, but it'd really be no more awkward than if they happened to focus on a brother & sister.

I'd just like to say that Tim Panaccio from CSNPhilly.com is a horrible reporter and I can't stand that I have to read his poo poo to get info about the Flyers. His writing (and even when he's on TV for Daily News Live) comes off as he knows everything and everyone should just accept whatever he says because he's been doing it for so long.

I am 100% sure that all the worst sports writers get stuck in hockey man. Fuckin' Brooksie. Maybe he's not so much on the bad side, but more just of a cockbag than anything... Ross McKeon?? Ughhhh

Okposolypse
Jan 1, 2009

by Debbie Metallica


THE MACHO MAN posted:

Who doesn't like the subway race to Yankee you goddamn pinko


I am 100% sure that all the worst sports writers get stuck in hockey man. Fuckin' Brooksie. Maybe he's not so much on the bad side, but more just of a cockbag than anything... Ross McKeon?? Ughhhh

Steve Simmons is the worst. Brooks atleast covers the CBa poo poo extensively even if he is an rear end and you disagree with his CBa opinions.

Politicalrancor
Jan 29, 2008



Agreed, im not so much into all the bullshit a Major league game, but all the goofy poo poo at minor league games is the best. If any of you have been to the Lake Elsinore Storm (maybe 2 of you), it has the absolute best between inning attractions.

Grounds Crew Gorilla has a feud with the Inland Empire 66'ers Part 1 Part 2

leokitty
Apr 5, 2005

Well I had to phone his friend to state my case, and say he's lost control again.

And he showed up all the errors and mistakes, and said I've lost control again.

I think between innings stuff is only a problem I you go to a lot of games. I see the same poo poo all the time at Yankee Stadium and RCBP but that's just because I go so often. It's for the people who go a few times a year, which is probably most of the people at any given game.

Copernic
Sep 16, 2006

...A Champion, who by mettle of his glowing personal charm alone, saved the universe...


Daulerio is a piece of poo poo again. NWS for boobs.

Naked Photo Of Someone Who's Probably Not Nick Saban's Daughter Is About To Go Viral posted:

]It started off with an email from a man named David: "Any interest in Nick Saban's daughter, who is a sophomore at Alabama, topless?" And then some other dude sent us the pic rapidly circulating around SEC cell phones. (NSFW)

And here's the photo with the accompanying email.

leokitty
Apr 5, 2005

Well I had to phone his friend to state my case, and say he's lost control again.

And he showed up all the errors and mistakes, and said I've lost control again.

I think it's fake!! So let me publish it anyway!!!

I thought he was going away?

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008



leokitty posted:

I think it's fake!! So let me publish it anyway!!!

I thought he was going away?

Really? Who's taking over?

barkingclam
Jun 20, 2007


morestuff posted:

Really? Who's taking over?

I know Fire Joe Morgan is guest editing for a day, but I haven't heard anything about Daulerio leaving.

leokitty
Apr 5, 2005

Well I had to phone his friend to state my case, and say he's lost control again.

And he showed up all the errors and mistakes, and said I've lost control again.

He said he was going away for a while but then never actually went away.

I CHALLENGE THEE
Aug 25, 2005

kirk gibson is a piece of shit


I know that a lot of people have been piling on fangraphs but holy loving poo poo is Dave Cameron's piece about Adam Dunn loving awful

quote:


In his post about Jason Heyward yesterday, Matthew Carruth referred to Adam Dunn as a ďmaybeĒ Hall-of-Famer. When I read that, I assumed Matthew had taken leave of his senses, or was making some kind of joke that I didnít quite get. After all, Dunn has a career +27.7 WAR through age 30, and the established bubble for HOF players is currently about +60 WAR. It is highly unlikely that Dunn will be able to double his value in the second half of his career, especially given his skillset.

But, the more I thought about it, the more I realized Matthew was right Ė Adam Dunn very well may end up in Cooperstown if he can stay healthy.

Career HR totals are definitely one of the magic numbers that get voters attention. The guaranteed entry barrier used to be 500 before the offensive explosion of the 1990s. Only 25 guys in history have ever hit 500+ home runs, and almost all of them are or will be in the Hall of Fame. Now that non-superstars like Gary Sheffield and Rafael Palmeiro have joined the list, its exclusivity has been diminished, but itís still the kind of number that will draw notice, especially for a guy who has never been linked to PEDs.

Well, Adam Dunn is only 149 home runs away from 500, and heís averaged 35 HR per 600 PA in his career so far. Barring injury or a very early collapse of his skills, 500 homers seems like a very easy target for Dunn. Thatís averaging just under 30 homers a year for the next five seasons, and the last time he hit fewer than 30 long balls in a year was 2003. His bat may begin to slow down, but heís got enough power that he can lose some and still crank out that piece with relative ease.

Given just how bad defensively he was in the outfield, however, heíll almost certainly be the worst player ever to reach that milestone. Even with the power, his offensive production has always been just good, not great, and heís one of the worst defenders and baserunners of his generation. In terms of actual value, thereís almost no way Dunn will deserve to go into the Hall, but Iím not sure that will matter.

If he hits 500 homers, and is presumed to have done so while ďcleanĒ, there will be support for his candidacy, especially if heís going up against other guys who have tested positive or been linked to steroids. If he gets anywhere near 600 and keeps away from scandal, heís a mortal lock, and itís not impossible to see Dunn launching 250 homers over the remainder of his career.

So, I have to conclude that Matthew is right Ė Adam Dunn is a ďmaybeĒ Hall of Famer. If he stays healthy for the next 5 to 10 years, heís got a pretty decent chance at putting up the kinds of numbers that voters will take notice of. He wonít deserve to go in based on total value, but the sexy numbers just may be enough. He does the things that voters like, and the aspects where he fails, there is little emphasis. I canít believe Iím saying this, but thereís a decent chance that my kids might walk past Dunnís plaque in Cooperstown some day.

I've heard of mailing it in but Jesus Christ

chutwig
May 28, 2001

BURLAP SATCHEL OF CRACKERJACKS

I CHALLENGE THEE posted:

I've heard of mailing it in but Jesus Christ

I am horrified by the thought that Dave Cameron will find a female foolish enough to reproduce with him.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



chutwig posted:

I am horrified by the thought that Dave Cameron will find a female foolish enough to reproduce with him.

He's already married

Nodoze
Aug 17, 2006



Adam Dunn's offensive production has just been "good, not great"

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Bob Shabazz
Oct 21, 2008

At 12:17 a.m. MU police spotted Mauk, 19, run a stop sign while driving his scooter east on Kentucky Boulevard - with two female passengers on board.

Nodoze posted:

Adam Dunn's offensive production has just been "good, not great"



Players that Cameron thinks have "good, not great" offensive production:

Al Kaline, Orlando Cepeda, Jose Canseco, Boog Powell, Ken Griffey Jr., Frank Baker, Tony Gwynn, Joe Morgan.

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