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BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

It certainly makes me consider Skylake-E more for my next upgrade, that's for damned sure.

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PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

You'll have plenty of time to save up if that roadmap is correct.

Mid-ish 2017 is nearly 2.5 yr away.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

You'll have plenty of time to save up if that roadmap is correct.

Mid-ish 2017 is nearly 2.5 yr away.

Yeah - I might settle for Broadwell-E, which is due out Q1 '16. Depends on what it offers, but 2.5y from now would mean this current system - at least 85% of the innards, will be 5 1/2 years old.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Meh, you'd think given DX12 and Vulkan, and their presumed multithreading awesomeness, that Intel will start shovelling out consumer hexacores, and maybe even octocores starting with Cannonlake. Either that, or introduce Skylake-E sooner.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


So I haven't been reading the news for over 18mo now. What's the status of IHS TIM for Haswell-E and broadwell desktop?

El Scotch
Aug 25, 2009

GrannyD


Combat Pretzel posted:

Meh, you'd think given DX12 and Vulkan, and their presumed multithreading awesomeness, that Intel will start shovelling out consumer hexacores, and maybe even octocores starting with Cannonlake. Either that, or introduce Skylake-E sooner.

I dare say that unless Zen can make Intel sweat, they will have little compulsion to put out a general hex-core. :/

Boiled Water
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


El Scotch posted:

I dare say that unless Zen can make Intel sweat, they will have little compulsion to put out a general hex-core. :/

However outside of rendering, movie editing and other easily broken up tasks it's not useful at all. DX12 and gaming is not at all close to being multithreaded since it's super difficult to make (I am told).

Sir Unimaginative
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Intel can probably get back their breathing room just by making 4 cores + hyperthreading a standard.

Boiled Water posted:

However outside of rendering, movie editing and other easily broken up tasks it's not useful at all. DX12 and gaming is not at all close to being multithreaded since it's super difficult to make (I am told).

Pretty much everyone uses middleware/abstraction/someone else's API these days (especially on consoles, where you're probably using the system SDK AND something like UDK or Unity) and there's quite a few of those and they're cutting down on abstraction losses all the time. asm.js of all things is getting viable these days.

Difficulty reaching the metal is real, but not the issue you believe it to be.

Sidesaddle Cavalry
Mar 15, 2013

...kill me

with citadel hitsちょうだい


Am I getting a feeling from this thread that Cannonlake would be more worth an upgrade than Skylake because of the conjecture that Intel would need to push harder to complete against Zen by then? Honestly asking.

Tab8715
May 20, 2006



What's Zen?

If anything, I cannot believe the mileage I'm getting out of my 2500k. A whole new rebuild isn't worth it for > 10%. The only new thing I'm going to miss is NVMe which is still in it's infancy.

go3
Dec 20, 2006


People are really really really overestimating the CPU demand of 99% of consumer use cases

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009


go3 posted:

People are really really really overestimating the CPU demand of 99% of consumer use cases

Which is what makes Sklyake interesting, a Skylake NUC or other <15W part probably is at performance parity with full wattage Sandy Bridge parts.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Tab8715 posted:

What's Zen?
Some upcoming AMD chip, I think.

Krailor
Nov 2, 2001
I'm only pretending to care

Zen is name for AMD's new chip architecture that is scheduled to be released in 2016.

The only way Intel puts out anything better than the 4 core (8 thread) i7 that they've been doing would be if a comparably priced 6+ core (12+ thread) Zen chip had an actual measurable performance difference in several AAA games. Even then it would be a long shot since they'd have the 6+ core Broadwell-E line to compare against.

Tab8715
May 20, 2006



Do you think AMD will make a comeback with Zen?

wargames
Mar 16, 2008

official yospos cat censor


Tab8715 posted:

Do you think AMD will make a comeback with Zen?

no, but it will hopefully be a first step.

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005
I only have canyoneyes for you

Krailor posted:

Zen is name for AMD's new chip architecture that is scheduled to be released in 2016.

The only way Intel puts out anything better than the 4 core (8 thread) i7 that they've been doing would be if a comparably priced 6+ core (12+ thread) Zen chip had an actual measurable performance difference in several AAA games. Even then it would be a long shot since they'd have the 6+ core Broadwell-E line to compare against.

You sure about that? I bet that performance in AAA games is irrelevant for 95%+ of laptops and desktops sold.

El Scotch
Aug 25, 2009

GrannyD


Tab8715 posted:

Do you think AMD will make a comeback with Zen?

Do I hope they will? Yes.

Do I think they will? No.

Tab8715
May 20, 2006



With AMDs performance I'm honestly perplexed how the company exists.

Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

An INTIMATE...relationship


Tab8715 posted:

With AMDs performance I'm honestly perplexed how the company exists.

Low margin shitware computers for people who don't know and don't care and shop at Wal-Mart.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009


edit: wrong thread

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

Trophy-ko says:
~death to capitalism~
;3


Tab8715 posted:

With AMDs performance I'm honestly perplexed how the company exists.


There have been several years where they got by on awards from lawsuits, IIRC.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Tab8715 posted:

If anything, I cannot believe the mileage I'm getting out of my 2500k.

Yeah, I'm really happy I convinced myself to upgrade in 2011-12, and as nice as it would be to have 1000MB+/sec solid state storage, the only place I'll ever notice it is faster level load times.

As for AMD, their current state does mean one thing. The time to upgrade is the second you hear they've declared bankruptcy, whether you need to or not.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at May 27, 2015 around 02:35

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Yeah, I'm really happy I convinced myself to upgrade in 2011-12, and as nice as it would be to have 1000MB+/sec solid state storage, the only place I'll ever notice it is faster level load times.

The latest PCI-E SSDs take up so many lanes (and consumer CPUs provide so few lanes) that they steal bandwidth from your GPU anyway.

Tab8715
May 20, 2006



~Coxy posted:

The latest PCI-E SSDs take up so many lanes (and consumer CPUs provide so few lanes) that they steal bandwidth from your GPU anyway.

This is only the case with Dual-GPUs.

I need to take a step back and while the performance gains aren't necessarily impressive from the desktop perspective or for those of us power users whom are still on Sandy Bridge but what does it mean of HTPCs and Laptops?

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


So if these NVMe SSDs can talk directly to the CPU without going through the PCH in a single socket layout, what happens with a multi socket layout like the X99? Forced to go through the PCH or connected directly to one of the CPUs?

japtor
Oct 28, 2005
WELL ARNT I JUST MR. LA DE FUCKEN DA. oh yea and i suck cocks too


Tab8715 posted:

I need to take a step back and while the performance gains aren't necessarily impressive from the desktop perspective or for those of us power users whom are still on Sandy Bridge but what does it mean of HTPCs and Laptops?
I guess cooler/quieter operation (itself allowing more compact form factors) and better battery life, and/or better performance at the same power envelopes as before, although the speedups have been slowing down there too I think. Otherwise better IGP performance along with whatever other integrated features speeding particular stuff up?

I'm planning on getting a new machine at some point, and realistically afaik everything right now is totally fine for my needs. Looking into stuff down the line is more just picking and choosing whatever new feature set theoretically seems like a good upgrade. Like uh, AVX-512? Hell if I know if anything I use will ever take advantage of it, but if they do it'll go faster! Of course there's no end to that logic, so realistically it's more of a justification to upgrade for whenever my current machine gets annoying enough to use.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

~Coxy posted:

The latest PCI-E SSDs take up so many lanes (and consumer CPUs provide so few lanes) that they steal bandwidth from your GPU anyway.

Probably the only reason they're being 'generous' and giving Skylake 20 lanes. Just enough to SLI two GPUs in x8 and *one* NVMe drive at x4. That neglects the other things utilizing the available lanes, too.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at May 27, 2015 around 07:11

Lowen SoDium
Jun 5, 2003

Highen Fiber

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Probably the only reason they're being 'generous' and giving Skylake 20 lanes. Just enough to SLI two GPUs in x8 and *one* NVMe drive at x4. That neglects the other things utilizing the available lanes, too.

I don't think Skylake is getting 20 lanes from the CPU. 16 from the CPU and the PCH now has 20 3.0 lanes but they share bandwidth to the CPU.

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001



Lowen SoDium posted:

I don't think Skylake is getting 20 lanes from the CPU. 16 from the CPU and the PCH now has 20 3.0 lanes but they share bandwidth to the CPU.

I've seen conflicting sources on this, some saying that a Haswell on a Z97 chipset supported 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes and 8 PCIe 2.0 lanes, while a Skylake on a Z170 chipset will just have 20 PCIe 3.0 lanes.

Some (but not all) sources are saying that the Haswell configuration was 16 lanes managed by the CPU and 8 PCIe 2.0 lanes managed by the chipset, and the Skylake configuration is 16 lanes managed by the CPU and 20 PCIe 3.0 lanes managed by the chipset (36 lanes total). A quadrupling of bandwidth connected through the chipset seems unusual but not impossible.

Hopefully it will all be cleared up soonish.

Rastor fucked around with this message at May 27, 2015 around 15:32

Grim Up North
Dec 12, 2011



Tab8715 posted:

If anything, I cannot believe the mileage I'm getting out of my 2500k. A whole new rebuild isn't worth it for > 10%. The only new thing I'm going to miss is NVMe which is still in it's infancy.

This reminds me of this image from an Intel slide:



So if you've got a Sandy Bridge you might expect a 33% IPC improvement when updating to Skylake.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

"You are the best poster... do not let anyone say otherwise."


Where's Kentsfield, assholes??

It's gonna be more than 33% from a Q6600 but that's still quite disappointing for this timeframe.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004


So hot ...

Grim Up North posted:

This reminds me of this image from an Intel slide:



So if you've got a Sandy Bridge you might expect a 33% IPC improvement when updating to Skylake.

Aww, lil Penryn with its 2%

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Grim Up North posted:

This reminds me of this image from an Intel slide:



So if you've got a Sandy Bridge you might expect a 33% IPC improvement when updating to Skylake.

If the clocks are high. Sandy Bridge overclocks really well, also. That would also be at its most optimistic. It's kind of sad, but.. well, AMD isn't putting up enough of a fight.

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Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

japtor posted:

Like uh, AVX-512? Hell if I know if anything I use will ever take advantage of it, but if they do it'll go faster!
Developers adopting poo poo like this early. What world do you think you live in? At most, you'll find memcpy more accelerated.

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