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Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

For me but LEFTHANDED

4 Day Weekend posted:

Well right now all 2TB HDDs are 5400RPM, so not exactly something you'd want to have as a boot drive. Still, hopefully 1155/new AMD boards will make UEFI standard.
That's not true, there are 2TB and 3TB 7200rpm HDDs.

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Triikan
Feb 23, 2007
Most Loved

Is this the only reason 3tb drives aren't available except in external enclosures? I'm sure a bunch* of people would still buy them immediately.

*or at least some.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

For me but LEFTHANDED

Triikan posted:

Is this the only reason 3tb drives aren't available except in external enclosures? I'm sure a bunch* of people would still buy them immediately.

*or at least some.
Yeah, there's no reason to make them internal because people would try to boot from them and be pissed when it didn't work.

4 Day Weekend
Jan 16, 2009


Alereon posted:

That's not true, there are 2TB and 3TB 7200rpm HDDs.

Really? Which ones?

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

For me but LEFTHANDED

4 Day Weekend posted:

Really? Which ones?
The Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB for example, the Seagate FreeAgent GoFlex Desk 3TB also contains a 3TB Barracuda XT 7200rpm drive.

4 Day Weekend
Jan 16, 2009


Alereon posted:

The Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB for example, the Seagate FreeAgent GoFlex Desk 3TB also contains a 3TB Barracuda XT 7200rpm drive.

Those are pretty awesome. I'll probably pick them up once they get a bit cheaper.

Daerc
Sep 23, 2007

Look! A door! This must mean something!


4 Day Weekend posted:

Those are pretty awesome. I'll probably pick them up once they get a bit cheaper.


Yeah, there's actually quite a few 7200RPM 2TB drives...


I have no idea about the quality of the Hitachi drives, but I'd be sorely tempted if I actually had the money to spend.

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



Triikan posted:

Is this the only reason 3tb drives aren't available except in external enclosures? I'm sure a bunch* of people would still buy them immediately.

*or at least some.

Buy an external one and remove it from the enclosure.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

For me but LEFTHANDED

According to a guy posting on a Chinese forum (yeah...), a Sandy Bridge Core i7 2600K has been overclocked to 5Ghz (from 3.4Ghz) using air cooling. This is one of the unlocked processors, and the overclock was accomplished by raising the multiplier, at a voltage of under 1.40V. Even if it wasn't stable or he used an unhealthy amount of voltage (1.4v is a lot for a 32nm CPU, especially for long-term stability), this bodes well for stable overclocks in the high-4Ghz range. Current dual-core Clarkdales hit ~4.15Ghz with stock cooling and 4.5Ghz with water, and the six-core Gulftowns have hit 4.13Ghz, so this isn't out of the range of whats possible.

Kerris
Jul 12, 2006
Don't you fucking dare compliment a woman's voice on the forums, you fucking creepy stalker.

How does AMD's Fusion compare to Sandy Bridge? Is Intel closer to delivering Sandy Bridge?

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

For me but LEFTHANDED

Kerris posted:

How does AMD's Fusion compare to Sandy Bridge? Is Intel closer to delivering Sandy Bridge?
It appears likely that the graphics will be faster but the CPU will be slower. Sandy Bridge is a bit more than 2 months out, I think AMD's Bulldozer+APU products are further than that, they're launching the netbook/notebook products first.

freeforumuser
Aug 11, 2007


Kerris posted:

How does AMD's Fusion compare to Sandy Bridge? Is Intel closer to delivering Sandy Bridge?

Mainstream part for Fusion is Llano which is K10 + 400/480 shader GPU. Needless to say the GPU will slaughter SB outright but the CPU portion will be 2 generations behind SB by the time its comes out in 2H 2011. But the real star of the show is Bobcat which will have C2D + 5450 class performance on a power footprint of an Atom which will be released by the end of this year....Now that is impressive!

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

It's Easy Being Greene

freeforumuser posted:

Mainstream part for Fusion is Llano which is K10 + 400/480 shader GPU. Needless to say the GPU will slaughter SB outright but the CPU portion will be 2 generations behind SB by the time its comes out in 2H 2011. But the real star of the show is Bobcat which will have C2D + 5450 class performance on a power footprint of an Atom which will be released by the end of this year....Now that is impressive!

It should make the netbook market interesting again at least, although I've never understood the fascination people have with wanting to play games on a netbook.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

For me but LEFTHANDED

WhyteRyce posted:

It should make the netbook market interesting again at least, although I've never understood the fascination people have with wanting to play games on a netbook.
You need decent hardware acceleration to watch Youtube videos though, and it doesn't seem too unreasonable to want to play Flash games or Minecraft on a netbook, which may actually be possible with Ontario.

freeforumuser
Aug 11, 2007


WhyteRyce posted:

It should make the netbook market interesting again at least, although I've never understood the fascination people have with wanting to play games on a netbook.

With current netbooks I agree, but Bobcat should lift netbook performance to an acceptable standard that netbook gaming will be finally viable and also competition against the slowass Atom. If Bobcat can force Intel to put a scaled-down SB into netbooks that would be even better on the whole.

spanko
Apr 7, 2004
winnar

Here's a video of UEFI, from Asus, in action.

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/19920

I had a pretty hardcore nerd moment while watching it. I've been building/fixing PC's since I was in high school and this looks so amazing compared to bios.

Cryolite
Oct 2, 2006
sodium aluminum fluoride

How much of a decrease in boot times do you think we'll see from UEFI vs. BIOS?

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

For me but LEFTHANDED

Cryolite posted:

How much of a decrease in boot times do you think we'll see from UEFI vs. BIOS?
In theory all of the time between when the first POST image appears on your monitor and the Windows logo can be eliminated, especially if you're using an SSD and don't have to wait for it to spin up. That's 10+ seconds on my system.

BangersInMyKnickers
Nov 3, 2004

I have an oral fixation and it's not the sexy kind



Cryolite posted:

How much of a decrease in boot times do you think we'll see from UEFI vs. BIOS?

UEFI, I was told anyway, also allows for the operating system to do a warm reboot without UEFI re-executing. So there is that.

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Alereon posted:

In theory all of the time between when the first POST image appears on your monitor and the Windows logo can be eliminated, especially if you're using an SSD and don't have to wait for it to spin up. That's 10+ seconds on my system.

I'm currently nearing the end of week-long training with EFI down at AMI, and I'd say even with tons of debug code active, we're seeing a reference board get to OS in ~20 seconds or so. I'm porting their reference UEFI BIOS to our new platform, so I can answer as much non-NDA'd stuff 'bout EFI as I can.

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

You guys thinking about doing anything really different like putting a a Linux based hypervisor as an option? Or am I mistaken in believing that is possible at all?

dud root
Mar 30, 2008


Are the Socket 2011 quad channel CPUs classed as "sandy bridge"?

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

For me but LEFTHANDED

dud root posted:

Are the Socket 2011 quad channel CPUs classed as "sandy bridge"?
Yes, but they won't have the on-die graphics.

dud root
Mar 30, 2008


OK good I didnt want to crap up the thread with questions on a different architecture. What do we know about them? (the graphics-less chips) My searching yields vague year old press releases. I think my O/C'd E8400 will last until whenever they are released

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


I just hope Intel gets some systems out to Linux driver guys, so that we don't have the issues of blank screen when booting up an install CD when these systems first come out.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

For me but LEFTHANDED

They're for multi-socket servers and high-end workstations, so not something you'd be considering for your system. That's what the LGA-1155 is for.

spasticColon
Sep 22, 2004

In loving memory of Donald Pleasance

spanko posted:

Here's a video of UEFI, from Asus, in action.

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/19920

I had a pretty hardcore nerd moment while watching it. I've been building/fixing PC's since I was in high school and this looks so amazing compared to bios.

drat it, when are these coming out again? I want something to upgrade from my E8400. I want a i5-2500K chip and a UEFI motherboard so bad I can't stand it.

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

movax posted:

I'm currently nearing the end of week-long training with EFI down at AMI, and I'd say even with tons of debug code active, we're seeing a reference board get to OS in ~20 seconds or so. I'm porting their reference UEFI BIOS to our new platform, so I can answer as much non-NDA'd stuff 'bout EFI as I can.

I hope this doesn't come across as a loaded question, because I'm actually curious.

BIOS as we all know is kinda slow, but what really kills it is all the "addins" that have their own screens, device enumerations, etc. before you hit the OS.

By way oof example:
basic POST -> OS = x seconds
enable AHCI in BIOS = x + y seconds
install a RAID card = x + y + z seconds
configure the JMicron RAID = yet another screen and even more seconds added to boot time.

Will EFI help with this crap?
Will we ever get to a Mac-like grey screen -> OS in stupidly low amount of time?

Fats
Oct 13, 2006

What I cannot create, I do not understand

Alereon posted:

They're for multi-socket servers and high-end workstations, so not something you'd be considering for your system. That's what the LGA-1155 is for.

Depends on the pricing, but I don't regret going LGA-1366, and I imagine LGA-2011 will be similar.

BangersInMyKnickers
Nov 3, 2004

I have an oral fixation and it's not the sexy kind



~Coxy posted:

I hope this doesn't come across as a loaded question, because I'm actually curious.

BIOS as we all know is kinda slow, but what really kills it is all the "addins" that have their own screens, device enumerations, etc. before you hit the OS.

By way oof example:
basic POST -> OS = x seconds
enable AHCI in BIOS = x + y seconds
install a RAID card = x + y + z seconds
configure the JMicron RAID = yet another screen and even more seconds added to boot time.

Will EFI help with this crap?
Will we ever get to a Mac-like grey screen -> OS in stupidly low amount of time?

It's a much faster modular system running out of flash memory. Some of our servers use it now and initialization time is a fraction of what it was previously. I believe Macs are already using EFI, which is a good portion of why they can get to OS load so quickly.

movax
Aug 30, 2008



~Coxy posted:

I hope this doesn't come across as a loaded question, because I'm actually curious.

BIOS as we all know is kinda slow, but what really kills it is all the "addins" that have their own screens, device enumerations, etc. before you hit the OS.

By way oof example:
basic POST -> OS = x seconds
enable AHCI in BIOS = x + y seconds
install a RAID card = x + y + z seconds
configure the JMicron RAID = yet another screen and even more seconds added to boot time.

Will EFI help with this crap?
Will we ever get to a Mac-like grey screen -> OS in stupidly low amount of time?

Well, a lot of what slows down PC boots are all those Option ROMs that are getting loaded; RAID cards loading and trapping Int 13h, etc. That, and now EFI can be stored on a flash chip on various busses, from LPC to SPI.

EFI does 3 stages: SEC, PEI, DXE. The first two are pretty "fixed", with the third being where all the drivers are loaded (Driver eXection Environment). The OEM can write their own custom DXE modules to do whatever the gently caress they want. Unfortunately for us PC blokes, I think 99% of OEMs will include a legacy support module (you do want all your hardware to work, don't you?) which means that 16-bit OROMs will continue to be executed.

Also, a good deal of the speed of Mac booting is the lack of enumeration (unless you reset the SMC because of some goofiness, but even then, that's just one slow boot). At least on a Macbook, Apple knows exactly what every single PCI(e) device will be, it will never change, and they can generally skip any boring enumeration tasks.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


MachinTrucChose posted:

Overclocking is a stupid waste of money and shouldn't be done

Boy, I sure feel stupid overclocking my 2.33GHz CPU to 3.4GHz for no cost other than a modest, quiet cooler that was maybe $50

Clocked a 2.33 core 2 quad to 3GHz on the stock cooler, too, so that cost a grand total of $0

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at Nov 5, 2010 around 13:30

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Intel reference board with a single SSD, integrated GFX...4.3 seconds from power button to start of Linux boot. Boner.

Cryolite
Oct 2, 2006
sodium aluminum fluoride

Do you think we'll see that kind of performance with the early UEFI boards coming out in Q1 2011?

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Cryolite posted:

Do you think we'll see that kind of performance with the early UEFI boards coming out in Q1 2011?

With FastBoot on, maybe. That was with the legacy support module active as well, so I think it will get faster as more and more legacy stuff goes poof (and Windows 8 supports EFI in all editions).

EnergizerFellow
Oct 11, 2005

More drunk than a barrel of monkeys

movax posted:

With FastBoot on, maybe. That was with the legacy support module active as well, so I think it will get faster as more and more legacy stuff goes poof (and Windows 8 supports EFI in all editions).
Windows has fully supported EFI on 64-bit editions since Vista SP1, aka Server 2008 (and Windows 2000 for Itanium, but who cares about that). Windows 7 will be the last 32-bit Windows. Server 2008 R2 is already 64-bit only.

If the Steam Hardware Survey is anything to go by, Windows 7 x64 installs already outnumber x86 by more than 3:1. x86 is rappidly going away as the default OEM install as machines cross 4GB RAM. That and x64 CPUs are now ubiquitous, even on the low-end, including Atoms. Hell, for Thinkspads from Lenovo x64 is the default install now.

Triikan
Feb 23, 2007
Most Loved

What kind of stuff is going to be a Legacy device? Let's say somebody builds a gaming rig with Sandy Bridge, with no add on cards besides a new graphics card. Will onboard audio, ethernet, etc, be EFI enabled?

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Triikan posted:

What kind of stuff is going to be a Legacy device? Let's say somebody builds a gaming rig with Sandy Bridge, with no add on cards besides a new graphics card. Will onboard audio, ethernet, etc, be EFI enabled?

By legacy, I mean more offering up BIOS services to the OS. If you remember DOS and its ilk, they used direct BIOS interrupts for nearly everything. Like EnergizerFellow mentioned, even 32-bit Win7 still needs to use int 19h to actually *boot*.

Device compatibility shouldn't change, but you can do some really cool poo poo in just the EFI shell environment. There's a full TCP/IP stack available, and vendors like AMI have tools like AMIDiag, which is essentially EFI-memtest86 + other tools, with a shiny GUI!

KingEup
Nov 18, 2004
I am a REAL ADDICT
(to threadshitting)


Please ask me for my google inspired wisdom on shit I know nothing about. Actually, you don't even have to ask.


I've only really been playing Dawn of War 2 for the last couple of years. I'd like to upgrade my CPU to get some more FPS and have been contemplating the i5 760 because it seems to outperform even an i7 920 in games using Relic's Essence Engine:



With a game like Dawn of War 2, that apparently benefits from more L3 cache (see link below), is the i5 760 with it's 8MB L3 cache likely to outperform the i5 2500 which has only 6MB L3 cache?

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,...5-CPUs/Reviews/

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Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

For me but LEFTHANDED

LGA-1156 platform CPUs, such as the i5 700-series and i7 800-series, outperform the LGA-1366 i7s because they have higher-performance Turbo Modes (+533Mhz for dual-core operation, vs +133Mhz on the i7 920) and the platform is more efficient overall. I would expect an i5 2500 (3.3Ghz) to be around 25-40% faster than an i5 760, given the significant clockspeed and architectural advantages.

Your link seems to show DoWII NOT scaling significantly with cache size, so I'm not sure why they said it did. They didn't benchmark any CPUs that are comparable except for cache size, if you look at the numbers for the E6600 and the E2160 (1/4 the cache), there's around a 10% difference after you scale the clock speed, without accounting for the bus speed, which seems a pretty tiny difference for an app that likes cache and a 75% cache size reduction.

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