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I think if I was bound to follow the commands of a person, I'd rather it be someone who seems to be fully in control of his emotions rather than a hotheaded little girl who is often unaware of the repercussions of her actions and is known to (literally) explode when she gets angry. But that's neither here nor there since Tony doesn't have control of Renard in the first place.
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May 22, 2015 18:18
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 06:14 |
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well except its not you haha its renard and renard loves annie like a daughter and cares very much for her, so think about it if the choice was between some jerk and someone you love
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May 22, 2015 18:32
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Torgover posted:I have to say, throughout all this one thing that really bugs me is what tremendous dicks everyone is being about Annie's hair. When someone shows up with a new short haircut, especially if you think they might not be happy about it, the correct response is not to say "Oh noooooo! Fister Roboto posted:I think if I was bound to follow the commands of a person, I'd rather it be someone who seems to be fully in control of his emotions rather than a hotheaded little girl who is often unaware of the repercussions of her actions and is known to (literally) explode when she gets angry. Renard loves Annie and is learning how to handle that in a healthy way. She was the first and only friend he'd had in decades on top of that. He's still in the court because he chose to remain. He chose to remain because he couldn't bear to leave Annie.
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May 22, 2015 18:36
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" It's the little things.
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OK, so Annie cut her hair because her dad told her to and she couldn't possibly choose to do that of her own free will, while Renard is staying with the person who can literally command his actions because he chose to.
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May 22, 2015 18:42
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Fister Roboto posted:while Renard is staying with the person who can literally command his actions because he chose to. Okay are you just trolling at this point
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May 22, 2015 18:48
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Its also not like Annie deliberately put him in his position. He killed, at the very least, two people with his body hopping shenanigans and tried to kill Annie but missed and ended up in her doll.
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May 22, 2015 18:57
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After verbally and emotionally abusing her captive, Annie returns after disappearing for several months to apologize, and the captive accepts her apology out of love for her.
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May 22, 2015 18:59
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You have issues.
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May 22, 2015 19:01
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It's almost as if people can interpret things in different ways.
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May 22, 2015 19:02
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Fister Roboto posted:It's almost as if people can interpret things in different ways.
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May 22, 2015 19:05
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A reminder that Renard is a murderer and the only reason he wasn't locked up in monster jail again is because Annie stuck her neck out for him, whereas Annie is a teenager who probably just deserves detention. Also, Annie has given Renard the option of leaving and he has rejected it, whereas Anthony's presence in Annie's life is determined solely on his own whims, without regard to her. Also, remember her attempts to treat Renard not only as a person, but as an equal, while Anthony is doing his utmost to destroy the life she built up in his absence.
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May 22, 2015 19:09
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Zore posted:Its also not like Annie deliberately put him in his position. He killed, at the very least, two people with his body hopping shenanigans and tried to kill Annie but missed and ended up in her doll. She even offered to let him go, which he refused. Renard had the choice to leave and chose to stay in Annie's power. In terms of authority, Annie is more like a parent to him than a warden or slavedriver. Right now, Anthony is unable to make him do anything, but is keeping him trapped, so he's more like the warden to Renard. Incidentally, Anthony is exercising total control over Annie's life without asking her opinion on anything...
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May 22, 2015 19:13
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Annie can leave if she wants to just as easily as Renard can.
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May 22, 2015 19:14
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And face no consequences from Anthony?
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May 22, 2015 19:18
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isasphere posted:And face no consequences from Anthony? Unless he can enter the forest unharmed, yes.
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May 22, 2015 19:19
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Tenebrais posted:She even offered to let him go, which he refused. Yeah? Stockholm Syndrome is a thing you know. Bunch of slavery apologists in this thread I swear.
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May 22, 2015 19:20
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The point I'm trying to make here, since apparently some people need things spelled out like a children's cartoon, is that both Annie and Renard are chained by the love for their captors. I think it's funny that people see the former as bad and the latter as good.
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May 22, 2015 19:21
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I really love all the assumptions about all the evil things Anthony will do like he's some cackling cartoon villain instead of a very autistic dude. Start with the fundamental question: What would Anthony gain from doing X?
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May 22, 2015 19:31
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I didn't make this connection before but Antimony's "everyone must think I'm super dumb" thing is very similar to old man Ysengrin's "YOU THINK I'M WEAK IS THAT IT?" inferiority complex. Wow Ysengrin, worst dad.
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May 22, 2015 19:35
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Fister Roboto posted:The point I'm trying to make here, since apparently some people need things spelled out like a children's cartoon, is that both Annie and Renard are chained by the love for their captors. I think it's funny that people see the former as bad and the latter as good. I gave up trying to convince people that stuff like this doesn't fall into nice clearly defined "good" and "bad" slots, that relationships can be toxic and loving at the same time, that emotions rule the roost, and that people will make excuses for what they don't want to acknowledge weeks ago; for your own sake I recommend doing the same because IMO it's just not worth the headache.
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May 22, 2015 19:40
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This is a really productive and thoughtful discussion
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May 22, 2015 21:08
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Agreed. I enjoyed it thoroughly.
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May 22, 2015 21:26
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Fister Roboto posted:Ah, so it's OK because she was a good slavemaster. Going back to this, but the previous post from you on this is "no he was already enslaved so it's okay", and before that "Annie's friends are being dicks for not letting Renard be enslaved because Annie 'wants' him to be". There's no consistency here. Or, in other words, Fister Roboto posted:The point I'm trying to make here, since apparently some people need things spelled out like a children's cartoon, is that both Annie and Renard are chained by the love for their captors. I think it's funny that people see the former as bad and the latter as good. No, you're not, you're just a really bad troll.
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May 22, 2015 22:53
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Tom, if you're there take the comic back to laser cows. Goons can't handle serious plotlines 
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May 22, 2015 22:59
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I'm sorry you misinterpreted my sarcasm. I don't actually think it's ok for someone to be enslaved just because their master is good. Quite the opposite in fact.
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May 22, 2015 23:00
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm sorry you misinterpreted my sarcasm. I don't actually think it's ok for someone to be enslaved just because their master is good. Quite the opposite in fact. No, I grasp that it was sarcasm, I'm pointing out that the point of that post is the opposite of previous and latter ones. You're all over the place and just being a contrary jackass.
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May 23, 2015 00:15
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm sorry you misinterpreted my sarcasm. I don't actually think it's ok for someone to be enslaved just because their master is good. Quite the opposite in fact. Well, it's good that you at least agree that he needs to be freed from Anthony's house!
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May 23, 2015 00:40
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So... anyone else find it curious that Coyote is "not happy at all about this", and Annie's request to tell him and/or Ysengrim to be patient implies that she has had no contact with him since Tony showed up, and that therefore a being as powerful as Coyote is currently either unwilling or unable to speak to Annie through the ether or through any other means? If Coyote is unwilling: Coyote is actually pleased with how things are going and recent developments are part of some plan of his. Doesn't seem likely, Coyote showing up and going "fooled you! ahahahaha!" wouldn't be a particularly good resolution for a plotline that was being set up for quite a long time (it would totally be a Coyote thing to do though (and there is the precedent of Coyote allowing Renard to be tricked into being captured by the Court)). If Coyote is unable: Tony set up The Room of Blandness to have heavy duty etherium dampeners or something of the sort. However, the fact that Tony accepted the dinner invitation and is thus willing to risk Annie being outside the room indicates a more disturbing possibility - Tony has done something (bone pillars did their job?) that has severed Annie's connection with the ether entirely. Could Annie even use her blinker stone at this point? If so, would she, for anything other than a direct request from Tony?
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May 23, 2015 02:05
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I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that there's no etheric crossing from the forest to the Court. Might have something to do with a certain murderghost.
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May 23, 2015 02:09
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Machado de Assis posted:So... anyone else find it curious that Coyote is "not happy at all about this", and Annie's request to tell him and/or Ysengrim to be patient implies that she has had no contact with him since Tony showed up, and that therefore a being as powerful as Coyote is currently either unwilling or unable to speak to Annie through the ether or through any other means? Have we ever seen Coyote in the Court (whether bodily or via the ether?) when not specifically allowed in (e.g., when he and Ysengrin were escorted into the hall by Eglamore back in the Fangs of Summertime?) It's possible that the mysterious forces separating the Court from the Forest also limit Coyote's ability to observe or influence events in the Court-- remember that he had to ask Antimony about his tooth when he was making sure she hadn't brought it back to the Forest.
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May 23, 2015 02:13
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Machado de Assis posted:So... anyone else find it curious that Coyote is "not happy at all about this", and Annie's request to tell him and/or Ysengrim to be patient implies that she has had no contact with him since Tony showed up, and that therefore a being as powerful as Coyote is currently either unwilling or unable to speak to Annie through the ether or through any other means? Coyote can't simply cross over the bridge, for whatever reason, because of Jeanne. They've never shown how it works with allowing Coyote and Ysingrin to come over for the meetings though. Coyote being unhappy about that both makes sense and doesn't make sense. Like it should make sense his new medium is essentially being held prisoner at the court, but on the other hand, Coyote seems like the kind of character that would go "Oh ho ho isn't THIS interesting" kind of like when the court decided Annie wouldn't become the court medium. I really really want to see a scene with them soon instead of just talked about. I like to imagine Ysengrin is both fuming and horrified. edit: Also regarding her hair, every instance we've seen of Annie in the ether, has had her attached to her body via her long hair, with the exception of when Red pulled her out of it. She is probably not connected to the ether much at all right now, and the hair totally symbolizes that. Macaluso fucked around with this message at 02:19 on May 23, 2015 |
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May 23, 2015 02:15
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I also assumed one of the factors in Renard taking Coyote's gift of body swapping was because he needed to be human to get into the court when he wanted.
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May 23, 2015 02:22
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I'm pretty sure Coyote can just walk over the bridge. The point of the bridge is that either side can just destroy it, and then the invincible murderghost begins to pose an insuperable barrier.
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May 23, 2015 02:36
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Coyote promised not to interfere with the court, and he doesn't lie.
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May 23, 2015 02:50
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Coyote would be out of character to have planned this, but in character to roll with this. If there is an "end game" to Coyote's manipulations I don't think we know it? He's not so much "against the Court" as he is "for Coyote," that's pretty much the Coyote schtick in the mythology and what initially drew me to GC in the first place is that he nails Coyote-as-I-understand-him so perfectly in voice and temperament. I wouldn't expect Coyote to really care all that much initially, but I suspect Coyote will become annoyed about it all if he ever needs his medium and she's not readily at hand. Of course, we don't have any information about Coyote's reaction or even the Court's reaction at this point. I hope they teleport straight to the forest due to a subtle etheric suggestion as to what should happen, though. Also the room being an etheric blocking room wouldn't work well as they did just teleport into it, which I think likely is an etheric effect?
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May 23, 2015 03:29
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Rincewind posted:Have we ever seen Coyote in the Court (whether bodily or via the ether?) when not specifically allowed in (e.g., when he and Ysengrin were escorted into the hall by Eglamore back in the Fangs of Summertime?) It's possible that the mysterious forces separating the Court from the Forest also limit Coyote's ability to observe or influence events in the Court-- remember that he had to ask Antimony about his tooth when he was making sure she hadn't brought it back to the Forest. Yes, that's how we were first introduced to him and we have seen the bush dogs enter uninvited. The bridge is the only way in thanks to Jeane, and Coyote has vowed not to interfere with the court. Macaluso posted:Coyote can't simply cross over the bridge, for whatever reason, because of Jeanne. They've never shown how it works with allowing Coyote and Ysingrin to come over for the meetings though. The forest can cross, they simply choose not to. We've seen coyote, ysengrin, bush dogs, and shadow people enter the court. Because of Jeane, the bridge is the only way. Come on guys, you are trying to solve a puzzle of your own creation. Coyote isn't breaking down the gates because he has said he won't and whatever else his word is good. The bridge is the only way to cross, Jeanne ensures that. This is firmly established in the strip
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May 23, 2015 06:13
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Roland Jones posted:No, I grasp that it was sarcasm, I'm pointing out that the point of that post is the opposite of previous and latter ones. You're all over the place and just being a contrary jackass. Yeah, that tends to happen when you respond to multiple people who are all making different arguments against you. If Annie's friends are truly concerned about Renard being Tony's captive, then why wasn't this a concern for all the years that he was Annie's captive? The response to this was that it wasn't a concern because Annie is good and Tony is bad, and I pointed out that that was bullshit for a variety of reasons. That's not inconsistent, that's just how the flow of the conversation went.
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May 23, 2015 06:15
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They are concerned about their friend who is a captive of someone who hates him and has apparently demonstrated the full willingness to be suddenly, thoroughly, unilaterally, and unrepentantly awful to those who are subject to his authority. It's at least partly a question of distrusting Anthony's intentions. The moral element is not "What is his status" but "What is likely to happen to him?" Rey and Annie are in similar situations, of course. One is more urgent, however.
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May 23, 2015 09:35
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I think Annie didn't contact the Forest or the Ether because she doesn't want to upset her father. I think that above all, Annie wants a family. Her father is here, and she is so desperate for some interaction, she just rolls along with whatever he thinks up. That's why she still is in that unlocked room, why she does all the extra homework and why she stopped this forest and etheric business. She wants and needs any kind of bond with her dad. Even if he's a jerk.
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May 23, 2015 10:48
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Bongo Bill posted:They are concerned about their friend who is a captive of someone who hates him and has apparently demonstrated the full willingness to be suddenly, thoroughly, unilaterally, and unrepentantly awful to those who are subject to his authority. It's at least partly a question of distrusting Anthony's intentions. The moral element is not "What is his status" but "What is likely to happen to him?" So it is just "Annie good, Tony bad".
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May 23, 2015 10:49
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