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gently caress that, be a Monkey and literally shout out the names of all your school techniques as you use them. COURAGE ABOVE ALL! FORTUNE FAVORS THE MORTAL MAN!
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Mar 8, 2012 22:10
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Josef bugman posted:Yeah, its kind of embarrasing quite how much love the setting has for the monkey clan and its founder (even though they are both completly awesome). I like to think Clan Monkey is sorta their admittion that not everything has to be gritty and sorta-"realistic." It's ok to have basically a clan of shonen samurai heroes who do the impossible and never let poo poo get them down.
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Mar 8, 2012 22:19
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Josef bugman posted:It is kind of nice, but you wouldn't want them in every campaign. If your playing "crab on the wall" you don't really want to have some shouty hero come along and do you job better than you. I'm admittingly sorta bad with the math and mechanics of L5R and not that hot at optimizing anything, but the way I always saw it, Monkey benefits mostly rely on spending void points, and basically make them sort of a jack of all trades type character who could theoretically be good at most things (especially if it's something challenging) but not as good or as often as the actual class built towards it.
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Mar 9, 2012 00:06
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As someone interested in making a Lion's Shadow built less around bushi/courtier mix and a little more around nasty sneaky "courtier" with a bit of defensiveness, are there any good advantages to represent "has loads of buds all over the place" aside from just mashing the Allies advantage? The old Ikoma Spymaster is dead and gone, but there doesn't seem to be any way to actually know any spies, like, anywhere.
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Jan 19, 2013 23:05
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I think Clan Monkey is my favorite CCG joke turned actual lore. From what I recall hearing, Toku was essentially a brutally cheap ronin that any deck could field for close to nothing - and thus, in turn, just about every deck DID send him out. The end result is that they more or less declared Toku was legitimately at like every goddamn fight and somehow survived them all, and because he was always the weakest or always outnumbered, when he did become an ACTUAL character, they gave him the minor clan built around willpower and fighting against the odds. Even better, being so easily sacrificed meant he was nearly always teamed up with Toturi, so they made the two best friends with a karmic tie to boot.
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Mar 26, 2013 07:04
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ScottyBomb posted:I could see a setting where the Scorpion Clan Coup was successful. We are writing this via PBP even now!
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May 19, 2013 01:17
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Alien Rope Burn posted:City of Lies is the boxed set for Legend of the Five Rings 1st edition that covers Ryoko Owari. It had a super-awesome map! Is that the one where the kolat are literal demon worshipping maho users because Five Rings hadn't written what the kolat actually were and the author had to make it all up?
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May 27, 2013 07:50
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Wasn't IH2 supposed to be a physical copy only release?
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Oct 25, 2013 08:03
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So has anyone really read or tried playing out part of SPACE SAMURAI? I feel like the weapon additions and skill ideas aren't quite thought through. As it stands you'd be a fool to EVER use a katana instead of a rifle, whereas I was assuming they were intending the opposite - ranged combat is now VERY good, but most samurai are still going to be using their lightsword katanas. The easiest solution I've seen is just to modify armor. Remove the increase of TN to athletics and stealth in Light Armor, double armor Reduction when applied to guns. Granted, this still might not be enough, since rifles start at 4k4 and add Perception to unkept dice, but it's at least a start. Likewise, THREE of the new skills are all just Horsemanship for a new vehicle; rather then clog the game with even more skills, I think it's easier just to state that Horsemanship is now called Pilot (just like Kyujutsu is now just Firearms) and covers all modes of transportation. Computer use, granted, probably would be its own thing. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 10:15
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From what I recall, L5R3 was just nonstop broken everything.
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Mar 14, 2014 02:41
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In my experience, katas would be worth it if they a) weren't so lukewarm 90% of the time, and b) could actually be used and switched without being one specific advanced school. You wouldn't need insight if you solved...well, either of those, but preferably both.
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Mar 15, 2014 18:01
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To be fair their reasoning for it is fairly sound; delayed pdf release HAS been fairly effective at stopping day 1 piracy, which I believe boosts day 1 sales (and thus sales overall). Two months is a bit extreme though, yeah. Usually it's...I wanna say two weeks?
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Mar 21, 2014 06:22
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EDIT: Mispost
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Mar 23, 2014 07:41
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Funny enough, Akodo is way better then Kuni if you wanted to power game for combat.
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Mar 23, 2014 14:35
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NinjaDebugger posted:Also Asahina Shugenja tech nerfed into the ground. I've never seen one in-game. Were they that good? The bit on initiative in duels is a small hit to Kakita. Intimidation change is a bit of a boost to Yoritomo Courtier and a small nerf to Kasuga Smugler.
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Apr 5, 2015 21:21
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Mechayahiko posted:Thanks Spooky. I am trying to surprise my players by dropping the responsibility of solving this on them when the Sensei doesn't show up (probably killed by the gozoku on the way). Clans who have the might to protect the land and can prove that the current clan can't protect it can claim the land right? Ssssorta. It's technically illegal for a great clan to invade a minor clan, but that tends to be something where the details can be hashed out after the great clan kills everyone and takes their land.
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May 13, 2015 21:24
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I'm really curious about how FFG will handle the RPG. I mean, we won't see anything for like two years minimum, but it's fun to speculate. Someone mentioned they could just do full on each clan having their own book, but there's 8-9 clans depending on Spider, not even touching the minor clans, and I imagine they don't want a situation of "sorry, Crab Clan is going last, you have to wait another two years for us to eventually get to you." It would also heavily fracture the market - I imagine most L5R fans have favored clans and ones they dislike, so they'll sell a lot less then a book covering a more grand topic would.
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Sep 22, 2015 12:11
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Halloween Jack posted:So, what is the current state of the metaplot under the Dragon empress? Jigoku got tired of Fu Leng always failing so they took an NPC from Burning Sands that was originally in Clan Unicorn and turned her into Kali-Ma, who became the new champion. She went off and nuked the Ivory Kingdoms then stomped over to Rokugan. There was a big war that Rokugan was losing, and Dragon Empress Iweko ended up making a deal with Daigotsu that allowed Spider to be an actual legit Great Clan so long as he stopped Jigoku's taint from spreading. He agreed and descended into Jigoku as it's new champion. Meanwhile, Shahai does some ritual to supercharge Fu Leng and steal his power back from Kali Ma, and he pops out of Jigoku in Scorpion lands (creating a new Festering Pit) in dragon form to go all Mortal Kombat with Kali Ma and wins. Shahai dies in the process and Daigotsu gets to work deciding he ain't no bitch and tells Jigoku that he wears the pants in this relationship, then proclaiming Shahai (and a few others) as Dark Fortunes, has his son Kanpeki become the new Spider Champion, and stops the taint from spreading (unless you willingly give it to yourself). The Shadow Dragon also joins in. With the Ivory Kingdoms freshly nuked, Iweko decides to go all Imperialism (because that's always worked out for Japan) and announces that they are now called the Ruined Kingdoms, and she's totally claiming that poo poo. The vast majority of Spider are sent to be her conquerers with the Dragon to serve as their leash holders, and a bunch of other clans head over because there is a ton of money to be made, and the Rokugan Colonies happen. The Spider are generally sinister sneaky suspicious little shits, and the Lion get real fed up with this. Some dragon named P'an Ku starts to show up in the Colonies and everyone goes insane for a bit but then it's fixed and it doesn't really seem to have any big or further effect on metaplot that I can tell. Iweko has two kids - one is raised by mostly Clan Lion (where her hubby is from) but is technically also raised by the other non-Lion clans, and the other entirely by Clan Spider. Seiken, the older son, is a real big shithead, and like half the Great Clans dislike him. Seiken heads to the Colonies and gets all bossy and lovely over it. Iweko I retires and Seiken becomes Iweko II; he immediately removes the Imperial Bureaucracy and publically insults Spider for no real reason, then removes Kanpeki as Clan Champion and stuffs his brother in there instead (who naturally had no say in this). The Spider somewhat understandably yell what the gently caress, Seiken gets real smug and tells them to deal with it, so they go "FINE FUCKER LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS" and a) declares war, and b) brings back Jigoku's taint. Nice going, Seiken. He holds a big championship and a Daidoji wins, who asks "yo can we just like publicly do all our shady gaijin pepper poo poo" and he goes "Sure w/e" so not only are the Daidoji Harriers back, they now have official Imperial standing. P'an Ku warns Seiken that some mystic whatever seals are gonna break and it's totally gonna be the biggest, sickest war EVER. Also P'an Ku apparently takes the guise of a mischievous and anime-rear end little girl. I'm not actually sure if Seiken is actually supposed to be the shithead he's been somewhat consistently portrayed as.
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Dec 18, 2015 22:48
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Halloween Jack posted:I haven't read any of this, but as a Lion fan, "Spider Clan? gently caress that! Also gently caress bureaucracy just because" sounds like a pretty Lion thing to do. I skipped over some of the minor stuff, but he's done stuff like "enter the Emerald Championship, which more or less threw off the legitimacy of the whole event, because he felt like it" or "rolled into the Second City unannounced, told everyone else to gently caress off, and claimed rulership for no given reason." Like everything has indeed cast him exactly as a Lion - brash, stupid, shortsighted, and overly eager for war. Which is why his only real two allies are the Crab and the Lion. The Phoenix sorta back him. Scorpion pretended to, but in reality joined the Crane, Mantis, Unicorn, most of the Dragon (though they don't show it), and formerly Spider, in going "no what back the gently caress down jesus." Meanwhile the Lion have begun braying that the the colonies are by default corrupt and only good proper pure Rokugan who've never left the country should be considered true samurai, and Iweko II declared that the entire Second City had to be destroyed and rebuilt to ensure no unclean gaijin influences like architecture could brainwash anyone. He also talks big game about how Rokugan has grown corrupt and improper over time and harkens back to a glorious golden age of the past. He despises how weak city living samurai are, and how TRUE ROKUGAN is found in rural areas. Sorry bro. Iweko II is Rokugan Donald Trump. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 07:26
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Oh, and the Phoenix kinda bizarrely made this giant screed about blood purity and how mixing races was sinful and all this poo poo, aimed directly at the Unicorn, and the Unicorn told them to put the gently caress up or shut the gently caress up, and I'm not sure where that went. So those are Iweko II's allies. The Crab, who are mostly just real itchy that they haven't had a good war in awhile. The Lion, who support just flat out kicking out half the other Great Clans and are pushing for him to do just that. And the Phoenix, who have bizarrely become 18th/early 19th century racists.
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Dec 19, 2015 07:38
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Well, it feels like there's a big push towards there being some big titanic war between good and evil and all that jazz that will CHANGE ROKUGAN FOREVER or something...timed perfectly to the switch to FFG  .I mean I'm not saying that was the original intent given how sudden the FFG purchase was, just that it's comfortably heading in that direction hahaha. Spookyelectric posted:No, that was his brother Shibatsu. And he had a reason, restoring order to the city. How flimsy or strong that reason may have been could be up for debate, however. Point being, that wasn't the guy you're talking about I thought Seiken was the one who rolled in and told the Crab to demolish the entire city and rebuild it from scratch as a Proper Rokugan City apropos of nothing?
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Dec 19, 2015 10:08
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NGDBSS posted:But I suppose a significant part of the problem is the mandate that every time an empire-spanning conflict in the metaplot ends, another must start within living memory of the participants. Wasn't the Scorpion Coup the very first piece of metaplot, after all? And thus far we've had one crazy thing after another within the span of an in-game century, which is pretty short in the context of Rokugan's size/social and technological structure. gently caress, even though Europe (as an example) regularly had conflicts every few decades over three or more millennia, very few such conflicts had quite the scope or stakes as the poo poo that regularly seems to plague the Emerald Empire. If I recall this is literally poked fun of in one of the side story bits - a Toritaka mentions that Rokugan is increasingly filled to the brim with ghosts because people keep dying in nonstop wars.
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Dec 19, 2015 10:17
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If it's any consolation, Spooky, the FFG forums agree with you. They've got a real big thread on how shugenja should change, and IF they should change, and the overwhelming opinion is "yes, they need to stop being the "good at everything wizards" and start having their own actual focus on spirituality in Rokugan the same way Bushi have a focus on war and battle and courtiers have a focus on courtly demeanor." I think it's easier for some family then others to have a sorta "gimmick" there. Kitsu of course very easily have their own focus on spirituality regarding their ancestors. The Asahina could focus on the more quiet meditative branch, the Isawa the more studious branch, while both still being more spiritual then "asian wizards." The Iuchi could actually stand out for having a very different and "weird" focus that isn't based on worshiping the kami. But then there's other stuff. I'm not sure where the Yoritomo would fit in (maybe just remove them again and stick with Moshi for the Mantis? But they'd need something that isn't "zap everything with lightning" too.) The Kuni have sorta ALWAYS felt way more "wizard-y" to me. The Soshi have a somewhat interesting gimmick in L5R4 but it also feels real "wizard-y;" still, they're probably the best of this group with their focus on NOT worshiping the kami, but instead dealing with them like you would a business contract. Agasha ARE just straight up wizards, and would need to be changed; likewise Tamori. As for the Lion, I think they also suffer from being the best clan to lose when you want to show how cool someone else is. It's the old comic books problem. I want to show off how badass my totally new original character is, but I don't want to actually put in effort, so I'll have them beat up Batman. The Lion are supposed to be the super strong army, so I'll show off how dangerous this new threat is by having them beat the Lion! Other then that they do suffer at lest in part from Wick actually outright hating the same sense of bushido and honor the game was actually supposed to be about, which lead to them getting non-stop dunked on and becoming super bland early enough to establish that as a thing. The need for an easy baddie to beat is also I think what happened to the Phoenix. "They're arrogant wizards, right? Let's have them get corrupted." Only repeated over and over and over again until the big joke is "Shiba Training 101: What to do when your shugenja inevitably is taken over by jigoku." I will also say as someone who doesn't play the card game but does try to stay on top of the lore that there was probably way too many little bits and pieces to keep track of. The wiki may be often wrong, but it's sometimes the only way to actually stay on top of things. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 22:27
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MonsieurChoc posted:Yoritomo have always been linked with Osano-Wo and Thunder, though, it's not just lightning magic. Yeah, but they need a means to apply that to something that isn't "throw lightning bolts" Like the Moshi have this deep traditional stance focused on praising the sun, and that translates to "is REAL good at throwing fireballs," which is more or less the very text of the problem.
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Dec 20, 2015 01:03
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Scorpion fluff is weird and real inconsistent at times because who the Scorpion are has changed a lot. Going off second hand memory, Scorpion started off as unplayable bad guys. They were literally just flat out the bad guys, the end. They morphed over time as the "shady clan who uses all the forbidden stuff," aka their shadow ninjas that tapped into Nothing, their traitor's grove, their underhanded ways, etc. Unfortunately, they were also Wick's pet Clan (see again Wick's open loathing for honor and bushido that the game is nominally supposed to be about), so it ALSO became an established thing of "the Scorpion openly break the law and aren't actually sneaky at all about their stupid lovely evil, but have immunity." Wick's adoration for the Scorpion just ended up making them even MORE one note. Since then there's been attempts to crowbar the Scorpion into something a lot more usable then "the bad guys who always get away with it," but I always got the sense that there was too much dumb stuff from early on that had become impossible to get rid of.
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Dec 21, 2015 22:16
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Alien Rope Burn posted:So they've been in for awhile, and they were always attached to Wick in a way the other clans just weren't. (The Wasp are his second child, but that's another story.) Hmmm I wonder what the Wasp think of samurai and bushi - oh, of course.
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Dec 22, 2015 01:47
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Yawgmoth posted:Am I the only one who really just does not have any problems with (at least some) shugenja acting like "wizards"? Because personally I think it's a nice bit of differentiation for the Agasha/Isawa to treat their spellcasting as "look it's basically math, you input these words and out comes a fireball" and other families to have any of the other opinions on shugenja magic. And yet I got loving chewed out in an L5R game I was thinking of joining because I did the unspeakable deed of calling shugenja spellcasters. It just seems like an odd thing to pick a fight about when there's more than enough room for all the different notions, and in fact having them all makes for a great point of tension between shugenja of different schools. Like, having one or two shugenja do it is fine, the problem is that all shugenja do it. It's what leads to the issues of shugenja becoming great at everything - just as with almost any other RPG, "spellcaster" isn't a role, it's how you perform a role, and if your only role is "spellcaster," it becomes "do everything." Also, not to put too fine a point on it, but you also kinda showed the problem. The Isawa DON'T treat spellcasting like one big math problem. Because spellcasting ISN'T a math problem. This is the fluff issue that plagues shugenja - you aren't supposed to be a D&D-rear end wizard. You're praying to the kami and asking them to do a thing for you. This is real important: the shugenja has no actual magic power of their own outside of "talk to the elemental kami." The family that actually does boil all this poo poo down is the Soshi who treat the whole thing as a business transaction.
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Dec 25, 2015 00:01
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If Wick added anything good to this game, it was entirely by accident.
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Dec 27, 2015 14:12
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As egregious as Tsukune Shiba is, she really isn't the worst out there. That goes to just about every pet character Wick had, but most especially Kachiko, who is the very embodiment of "this character only continues to exist because the writer mandates it."
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Dec 27, 2015 22:47
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As far as the ninja go, I rather liked how 4e covered both bases. The Shosuro "Infiltrator" is the one that wears black and throws shurikens and sneaks across the rooftops to stab someone with their lovely ninja-to. The Shosuro Actor is the real infiltrator.
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Dec 28, 2015 09:50
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The actual (two) super masterful weapons are no-dachi and yumi - the latter because, probably accidentally, bows are just overwhelmingly better then anything else, as you can have a complete monofocus on reflexes. Shoot dudes with arrows from afar and dodge every attack when they get close! Unarmed it's generally better to go with grappling over pure punch damage because once you got a dude in a grapple, they basically can't do anything. That doesn't mean you don't pump up your unarmed damage, mind you - you can keep them grappled AND do unarmed damage every turn. It might not last long though - being grappled gives you a decent penalty to your Armor TN, meaning Hawkeye or Captain Nodachi up there can finish them off real fast. Anyways the actual best weapons in the game are Tempest of Air, Fires of Purity, and Jade Strike. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Dec 31, 2015 |
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Dec 31, 2015 11:11
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...But...Great Clan Mantis... 
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Mar 23, 2016 12:53
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Gonna correct my previous statement: Pre-Scorpion Coup is the worse not because it lacks Great Clan Mantis, but because it lacks CLAN MONKEY
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Mar 24, 2016 02:53
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Alien Rope Burn posted:What would people like to see changed in Legend of the Five Rings, rules-wise? What do people find unsatisfactory about it as it stands? I say this not just to take an critical swipe at 4th edition, but since we've probably got a long gap until 5th edition, the idea of going through and doing a fan-based retooling (like was recently done for Exalted 3e) has been weighing on my mind. As such, I'm curious as to what people have disliked in this edition, or would like to see return from earlier editions? Every technique and/or path should have a point to it, and the point cannot be "makes you objectively worse." No reason to design it otherwise. If you want Minor Clans to suck you say upfront "don't play a Minor Clan, they suck," and if you want a school to be so bad as to be pointless you don't even bother making it. Anything else is lying to the player.
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Apr 10, 2016 21:47
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Like, the problem is still that the game tells you one thing and the mechanics something else. The in-game fluff tells you about Toku, the ronin who became the Fortune of Virtue after fighting valiantly alongside who would become the Emperor after stealing a dead samurai's weapons and armor, and that's goddamn badass. The actual mechanics tell you "gently caress you, no you aren't allowed to do that, and you lose honor for even trying." Yes, that very blatantly IS the game lying to you. Maybe the game was trying to be all gritty and 90's, but a) that's not what the fluff tells you, and b) it ain't the loving 90's. If L5R is built around being the nameless mooks who watch the actual cool NPCs do rad stuff, then burn the game, it's pointless. I don't think stating "everything has a point" is exactly reaching. The Suzume don't have to beat Crane at iaijutsu or Lion at war, but the clan based around working alongside the peasants has no bonuses at all to interacting with the peasantry, and the clan based around giving long rambling stories never makes doing that worthwhile, and the clan based around suffering poverty and hardship and coming out harder and more honorable has nothing that supports that whatsoever. The Suzume bushi doesn't fit the clan stereotype. Not that it's the only school with issues; the Ikoma Bard still does close to actually nothing with most of their mechanics, and we've already mentioned the issues the Hare have with their alt. This is a classic problem in the hobby in general - the mechanics don't fit the fluff, which creates the dissonance. If I make a Suzume, I'm making someone who has worked hand in hand with the peasants, who has had to actually work with his hands, who has likely spent at least one entire season hungry, who was raised to tell these big long rambling stories that manage to both annoy yet still convince people, and who's patience was enough to literally bring parts of the Spider Clan back into redemption. If the actual bushi reflects none of that, then what's the point of that bushi? The shugenja thing is funny because I feel like most of the actual schools are just fine. Isawa is the best all-rounder do anything, but each other shugenja school has something special the Isawa can't do. The issue with shugenja is more that the scholarly pacifist priests end up being stock cliche fantasy wizards, which isn't limited to school at all, and more to the overall shugenja design (and it's something I don't see changing ever).
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Apr 10, 2016 23:51
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EverettLO posted:I think a system that significantly downplayed combat would be good. I always found it hilarious that everyone wants to be a Mirumoto samurai for all those attacks, when in reality they're going to die off fast if they get into enough combat to enjoy it. Especially since L5R4 Mir isn't that good 
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Apr 11, 2016 21:35
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Mind you, given how the actual system works, it mostly just boils down to "take one point in skills you think you might use at some point or are flavorful, advance skills from there almost solely for the sake of masteries, upgrade your goddamn traits. Skills become way more valuable if you have enough bonuses to land you at ten dice rolled. Specializations aren't really worthwhile until you have at least 3 in a skill, and are more valuable if you explode on 9's." There just really aren't a lot of situations where you can choose on the fly between rolling an extra die or keeping an extra die. Or, well, any, that I can think of.
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Apr 11, 2016 22:39
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I am bringing this thread back just to say that I have heard of some of the changes that were going to happen in L5R before the FFG buyout and they are all absolutely batshit insane. Yoritomo gets sealed in a black scroll and his entire family is almost completely wiped out because a CCG player was paid $1500 in real life to pay for his car repairs
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Jun 25, 2016 02:42
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Oh, he did better then throw it. The tournament was basically "who gets this new Black Scroll?" There was a bounty of irl money on who to use it on. Mantis player won the tournament, took the Black Scroll, then took the cash and used on Yoritomo himself. This happened before the AEG announcement so he had no idea that was gonna happen. In the ~*~metaplot~*~, Kanpeki apparently wins and succeds at taking the Rokugan throne as emperor, the Yoritomo family are almost entirely wiped out when they're invaded by seagoing Shadowlands forces, and the Mantis are no longer a functional Great Clan. The gently caress?
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Jun 25, 2016 03:02
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Dick Burglar posted:Where does the $1500 come in? He only used it on Yoritomo because somebody paid him to? Yes. He could've used the scroll on a vague number of targets; he was literally bribed in real life to use it on his own clan kami. Would've loved to be the fly on the wall to see the story writer try to figure out how to make that one work sensibly!
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Jun 25, 2016 13:45
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