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BloodWulfe
Mar 18, 2003

NikkolasKing posted:

Xenosaga. Takhashi's love is worldbuilding and he did it even better in Xenosaga for my money on account of it being a space opera and all.

I don't agree with your opinions on Star Ocean, except that FATE LEINGOD is definitely stupider than EDGE MAVERICK. I love that name and always hear 80s synths when I read it.

I'll totally agree with your Xenosaga comment though. That series nailed overarching plot and world building and space opera. It's so goofy and sort of stupid, and the second game is really rough, but I love it and I'm super bummed that we'll never see anything like it again. I can barely picture a single big JRPG these days, much less three connected space opera ones. I suppose FFXIII is three connected games, but it's not at all the same level of connected that Xenosaga was.

e: though the new Xenoblade looks like a series of Xenosaga cutscenes so there's that

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

theblackw0lf posted:

I'd say "complex" as in many moving, working parts meshed in with the overall plot, that relate to and effect each other. A backstory that spans several hundred or thousands of years. Cities and countries have their own unique culture and history.

Another example I think would be the Suikoden series.
Trails in the Sky, maybe? The backstory isn't quite that indepth, but it's still got a decent amount of depth, and tons of dialogue about the backstory, and in-game books you can read, etc etc.

theblackw0lf
Apr 15, 2003

"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"

Endorph posted:

Trails in the Sky, maybe? The backstory isn't quite that indepth, but it's still got a decent amount of depth, and tons of dialogue about the backstory, and in-game books you can read, etc etc.

Yea Trails in the Sky was another one I was thinking of.

In some ways the Elder Scrolls series fits, not so much the story of the actual games, but the incredible worldbuilding.

theblackw0lf
Apr 15, 2003

"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"

BloodWulfe posted:

I don't agree with your opinions on Star Ocean, except that FATE LEINGOD is definitely stupider than EDGE MAVERICK. I love that name and always hear 80s synths when I read it.

I'll totally agree with your Xenosaga comment though. That series nailed overarching plot and world building and space opera. It's so goofy and sort of stupid, and the second game is really rough, but I love it and I'm super bummed that we'll never see anything like it again. I can barely picture a single big JRPG these days, much less three connected space opera ones. I suppose FFXIII is three connected games, but it's not at all the same level of connected that Xenosaga was.

e: though the new Xenoblade looks like a series of Xenosaga cutscenes so there's that

I have a feeling that if Takahashi wanted to create another epic scale JRPG that Nintendo would support him. Heck maybe that's what the new X game will be.

Though not on a scale of a multi-game series like Xenosaga. I doubt we'll ever see that again.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

theblackw0lf posted:

I have a feeling that if Takahashi wanted to create another epic scale JRPG that Nintendo would support him. Heck maybe that's what the new X game will be.

Though not on a scale of a multi-game series like Xenosaga. I doubt we'll ever see that again.

Nintendo's probably the best thing that could happen to Monolith Soft. Considering how focused and complete Xenoblade was compared to just about every other Xeno- game, I still think they're cracking the reins like they did with Silicon Knights for Eternal Darkness.

theblackw0lf
Apr 15, 2003

"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Nintendo's probably the best thing that could happen to Monolith Soft. Considering how focused and complete Xenoblade was compared to just about every other Xeno- game, I still think they're cracking the reins like they did with Silicon Knights for Eternal Darkness.

Part of the reason it's complete though is because Nintendo allowed him to finish his vision.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-09-most-anticipated-x

quote:

Midway through the project the team encountered a raft of difficulties and, realising they would miss the launch deadline, a deflated Takahashi met with Hitoshi Yamagami, the Nintendo producer who oversees RPG development, to suggest a list of deadline-aiding compromises. But Yamagami rejected the plan and told the designer: "You've come this far. You should see it through to the end. I'll convince the others at the company."

I'm sure they're cracking the reins, but they're also probably giving him more freedom and support then he got with his previous games.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Hitoshi Yamagami is a nice man. I'm sure Takahashi is happier working there than back in his Square days when they strolled into his office, mugged him for the rest of Xenogears' budget, and then left to dump it into FFVIII.

As if I needed another reason to regard FFVIII as a travesty, its apparently loving over my darling Xenogears is just the nail in its coffin.


BloodWulfe posted:

I don't agree with your opinions on Star Ocean, except that FATE LEINGOD is definitely stupider than EDGE MAVERICK. I love that name and always hear 80s synths when I read it.

I'll totally agree with your Xenosaga comment though. That series nailed overarching plot and world building and space opera. It's so goofy and sort of stupid, and the second game is really rough, but I love it and I'm super bummed that we'll never see anything like it again. I can barely picture a single big JRPG these days, much less three connected space opera ones. I suppose FFXIII is three connected games, but it's not at all the same level of connected that Xenosaga was.

e: though the new Xenoblade looks like a series of Xenosaga cutscenes so there's that

A lot of people don't like Xenosaga while they do enjoy Xenogears but there are definitely some things XS did better. Making sure the entire playable cast was actually relevant is the first thing that came to mind. Everyone got focus across all three games and they each got some resolution. Contrast with Billy, Rico, Maria and loving Chu-Chu. Even Emeralda really isn't that significant unless you do a totally optional sidequest and that's several hours after she joins the party.

In other news, I think I'm gonna go on a "Popular JRPGs Run" next month now I have a PS3 and PSN. Gonna play Chrono Trigger (I don't care about load times okay? I grew up with the PS1 and never had a SNES. Load Times are a part of my life) and maybe venture into Tales by trying out Symphonia. Seems to be a lot of people's favorites and even if it isn't as good as some of the others, I've been advised to play older Tales games first because then the "old and outdated" battle system won't feel so bad whereas if I started with Xillia or Graces f, it would. I kinda doubt this but whatever.

Shame Abyss and Legendia aren't on PSN. Although Legendia is mainly good for its soundtrack and everythign else is of suspect quality I am told.

NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Aug 22, 2014

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

NikkolasKing posted:

Hitoshi Yamagami is a nice man. I'm sure Takahashi is happier working there than back in his Square days when they strolled into his office, mugged him for the rest of Xenogears' budget, and then left to dump it into FFVIII.

As if I needed another reason to regard FFVIII as a travesty, its apparently loving over my darling Xenogears is just the nail in its coffin.


A lot of people don't like Xenosaga while they do enjoy Xenogears but there are definitely some things XS did better. Making sure the entire playable cast was actually relevant is the first thing that came to mind. Everyone got focus across all three games and they each got some resolution. Contrast with Billy, Rico, Maria and loving Chu-Chu. Even Emeralda really isn't that significant unless you do a totally optional sidequest and that's several hours after she joins the party.

In other news, I think I'm gonna go on a "Popular JRPGs Run" next month now I have a PS3 and PSN. Gonna play Chrono Trigger (I don't care about load times okay? I grew up with the PS1 and never had a SNES. Load Times are a part of my life) and maybe venture into Tales by trying out Symphonia. Seems to be a lot of people's favorites and even if it isn't as good as some of the others, I've been advised to play older Tales games first because then the "old and outdated" battle system won't feel so bad whereas if I started with Xillia or Graces f, it would. I kinda doubt this but whatever.

Shame Abyss and Legendia aren't on PSN. Although Legendia is mainly good for its soundtrack and everythign else is of suspect quality I am told.

If you have DS or 3DS, get the DS version of Chrono Trigger. It has the anime cutscenes from the PS1 version without the load times.

The Taint Reaper
Sep 4, 2012

by Shine

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Nintendo's probably the best thing that could happen to Monolith Soft. Considering how focused and complete Xenoblade was compared to just about every other Xeno- game, I still think they're cracking the reins like they did with Silicon Knights for Eternal Darkness.

I dunno Xenoblade could have benefitted from not having to run around collecting 10 items for a ton of quests. Not only that but there's a massive gap for leveling from the late 80's to the late 90's and affinity was a real bitch to max out.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

The Taint Reaper posted:

I dunno Xenoblade could have benefitted from not having to run around collecting 10 items for a ton of quests. Not only that but there's a massive gap for leveling from the late 80's to the late 90's and affinity was a real bitch to max out.

True, but there's a difference between minor game balance and "whoops we ran out of money for the plot".


theblackw0lf posted:

Part of the reason it's complete though is because Nintendo allowed him to finish his vision.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-09-most-anticipated-x


I'm sure they're cracking the reins, but they're also probably giving him more freedom and support then he got with his previous games.

That's pretty drat awesome :allears:.

RadicalR
Jan 20, 2008

"Businessmen are the symbol of a free society
---
the symbol of America."

Neddy Seagoon posted:

If you have DS or 3DS, get the DS version of Chrono Trigger. It has the anime cutscenes from the PS1 version without the load times.

Just don't do the extra content. Just... don't.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



I don't have a DS or 3DS. I can't see that good so handhelds are not for me unless I can emulate them or hook them up to a TV. Whenever I get a Vita or PSP and finally dip into all the great RPGs for that, I'll have to hook it up to my television. DS though I don't think can naturally be played on a TV screen. There was a 3rd-party thing I saw a while ago but yeah. Just seems easier to play it on my PS3.

The real reason I would want to play CT DS though is the new translation. I've heard people say it's akin to the GBA retranslation of FFVI ie. it may lack the charm of SNES but the story is conveyed better.

Levantine
Feb 14, 2005

GUNDAM!!!

RadicalR posted:

Just don't do the extra content. Just... don't.

I've heard this but no one ever says why. What's wrong with it?

Admiral H. Curtiss
May 11, 2010

I think there are a bunch of people who can create trailing images. I know some who could do this as if they were just going out for a stroll.
It's the most boring poo poo in the world, forcing you to run up and down the same mountain path over twenty times.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Chrono Trigger DS adds three new pieces of bonus content: the Lost Sanctum, the Dimensional Vortex, and the Arena of Ages. I've actually done them, so I can tell you what's up:

The Lost Sanctum is a series of incredibly repetitive and dull fetch quests. If you see them to completion, you can get a few pieces of equipment that are better than anything available in the main game, and a lot of EXP, but it is basically just awful. I have no idea what I was thinking, doing this bullshit.

The Dimensional Vortex only opens up in New Game+. This takes the form of three short dungeons, each with a boss fight at the end. You can get more post-game quality equipment doing this. Additionally, the dungeons include sections where you go through a random selection of screens from elsewhere in the game, and one of the possibilities is a room in the Black Omen where there are enemies you can steal Magic Capsules from, if that's the sort of flagrantly unnecessary grindy bullshit you're into. Beating all three Dimensional Vortexes unlocks the new ending added for the DS version, with a new superboss and some highly tenuous connections to Chrono Cross.

The Arena of Ages is a minigame where you raise a monster to battle other monsters. It's not really worth it but you might find it fun for its own sake.

However, it's still the best version of Chrono Trigger.

Rookersh
Aug 19, 2010
Can someone "explain" the Dark Eye setting to me?

Or rather help me with Drakensang character building, because I'm at a loss.

- My Rhulana has some points in plant lore, so I've been using her to gather plants. Turns out she can't pick poo poo though, even if I boost the skill to max. What gives?

- Kind of the same question with Dranor/Gladys. Both have max level lock picking right now, yet both can actually pick the lock maybe 1 out of 10 times. I thought maybe it had to do with lockpicks, and that maybe picking without them incurs some sort of penalty, but even using lock picks doesn't seem to help me pick locks.

- What the gently caress is the magic system. I bought Fastness of Body for Gladys, and this is what it says it does.

Effect All AR zones +1
Spell Duration 300 secs
Cost AR times AR -(SP*/2) AsP, min. 4 AsP
Modifier every 3 levels +1
The modifier may only be as high as the SP/2
Modification +1 AR per modifier
Spell Type General
Spell Category Attribute
Spell Cast Time (Actions) 1
Target The Spell's Caster
Range 0.0 m
Upgrade Category B

Ok, of that I get it's a selfcast that takes a single turn. And that it lasts 300 seconds. But what is an AR zone? What is SP?! And what does putting levels into it actually do, because if I max it out entirely it seems to have the same popup window as it does at level 1.

- How do the attributes affect things? Going off Fastness of Body again, it requires Intuition, Agility, and Constitution. But what does it actually get from those? More AR? More SP? More duration? A better chance to be cast? How the hell do they affect it. Same with Intuition/Dexterity and Lockpicking I suppose. Does boosting Strength even do anything for my damage, or is that entirely built off boosting Swords. And for stuff that has three attributes affecting it, do I really need all three attributes to be high level, or can I throw all my points into let's say Intuition to cover both Lockpicking and Fastness of Body.

- It seems speccing for Parry is a bit silly? I mean Master Parry/Wall of Blades/Windmill all give you 15 rounds of free parries no matter what your parry skill is. Why not just go all out attack?

- In DnD, 6-8 points means it's a dump stat, 10-13 means you need it for something, 14-16 means it's important, and 18+ means it's your core stat. What's the Dark Eye equivalent for it's stats? Are there caps for stats I should be aware of?

- What's the "ideal" point spread? I'm trying to buy all the Special Abilities I can as I see them, followed by maxxing out the Talents I care about ( Treat Wounds/Willpower on my Fighter, Pick Locks/Perception/Dialogue options on Gladys, Dwarfnose/Willpower on Forgrimm ), and then if I have leftover points, dumping them all into Strength. I haven't gone off to the swampy region yet, but I've spent pretty much zero points on Attributes because I've been spending all those points on Special Abilities/Talents.

- Should I be putting points into my Vitality/Astral Energy per level? I just realized recently that neither of them seem to go up as I level, so I assume it's just something I have to burn exp on. What would be a good "expected" Vitality to have for a Fighter by level 20ish?

BloodWulfe
Mar 18, 2003

theblackw0lf posted:

Part of the reason it's complete though is because Nintendo allowed him to finish his vision.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-09-most-anticipated-x

That was a really neat read, and honestly "take the time to finish what you've started, I've got your back" is not something I ever associate with JRPGs, or really any video game development.

I need to go back and play through Xenoblade proper. I adore Xenogears and Xenosaga, but I had a hard time getting in to Xenoblade. :( I sort of stalled out a ways after the first major town area, after you start seeing the massive wide open areas and fetch quests. Maybe 15~ hours in? Mostly I just didn't dig the combat system, which, y'know, is kind of a big part of an RPG. The story and characters just didn't hook me enough to keep going on despite that.

NikkolasKing posted:

In other news, I think I'm gonna go on a "Popular JRPGs Run" next month now I have a PS3 and PSN. Gonna play Chrono Trigger (I don't care about load times okay? I grew up with the PS1 and never had a SNES. Load Times are a part of my life) and maybe venture into Tales by trying out Symphonia. Seems to be a lot of people's favorites and even if it isn't as good as some of the others, I've been advised to play older Tales games first because then the "old and outdated" battle system won't feel so bad whereas if I started with Xillia or Graces f, it would. I kinda doubt this but whatever.

Nah, I think you'll have fun with older Tales games regardless of the order you play them in. I don't think it's really fair to compare the older 2D battle system with the newer 3D one. I played through Phantasia and Eternia last year and had a lot of fun with their combat systems.

Levantine
Feb 14, 2005

GUNDAM!!!

Bongo Bill posted:

Chrono Trigger DS adds three new pieces of bonus content: the Lost Sanctum, the Dimensional Vortex, and the Arena of Ages. I've actually done them, so I can tell you what's up:

The Lost Sanctum is a series of incredibly repetitive and dull fetch quests. If you see them to completion, you can get a few pieces of equipment that are better than anything available in the main game, and a lot of EXP, but it is basically just awful. I have no idea what I was thinking, doing this bullshit.

The Dimensional Vortex only opens up in New Game+. This takes the form of three short dungeons, each with a boss fight at the end. You can get more post-game quality equipment doing this. Additionally, the dungeons include sections where you go through a random selection of screens from elsewhere in the game, and one of the possibilities is a room in the Black Omen where there are enemies you can steal Magic Capsules from, if that's the sort of flagrantly unnecessary grindy bullshit you're into. Beating all three Dimensional Vortexes unlocks the new ending added for the DS version, with a new superboss and some highly tenuous connections to Chrono Cross.

The Arena of Ages is a minigame where you raise a monster to battle other monsters. It's not really worth it but you might find it fun for its own sake.

However, it's still the best version of Chrono Trigger.

Ah, thank you. I can see why that gets poo poo on a bit, but I've played so much Chrono Trigger at this point the entire game feels a bit like mindless grinding so I'd probably give it a shot anyway :v:

Kiggles
Dec 30, 2007

Levantine posted:

Ah, thank you. I can see why that gets poo poo on a bit, but I've played so much Chrono Trigger at this point the entire game feels a bit like mindless grinding so I'd probably give it a shot anyway :v:

Just wait until Lost Sanctum. The Dimensional Vortex isn't bad. It isn't good, especially by Chrono Trigger standards, but it is fine. Lost Sanctum has a special place in video game hell, however. It is something that really must be experienced to be believed.

Kiggles fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Aug 22, 2014

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

The Taint Reaper posted:

I dunno Xenoblade could have benefitted from not having to run around collecting 10 items for a ton of quests. Not only that but there's a massive gap for leveling from the late 80's to the late 90's and affinity was a real bitch to max out.
The best thing about Xenoblade is that if you ignore all of the sidequests, it ends up being a very well balanced game from start to finish and something like a 50 hour game still!

The game doesn't really show its cracks until you start doing all that side content. It does feel like the scope there got a little out of control.

Catts
Nov 3, 2011

Rascyc posted:

The best thing about Xenoblade is that if you ignore all of the sidequests, it ends up being a very well balanced game from start to finish and something like a 50 hour game still!

The game doesn't really show its cracks until you start doing all that side content. It does feel like the scope there got a little out of control.

I've got the single copy of Xenoblade among my rpg playing friends and my only requirement for borrowing it is that they swear not to touch any sidequests until the game is over.

For how polished and streamlined the rest of the game is the non-main quest content seems like a massive design disconnect. The fact that they locked so much content behind the terrible sidequest system was such a huge disappointment for how much I loved the rest of the game.

Paperhouse
Dec 31, 2008

I think
your hair
looks much
better
pushed
over to
one side
Is it a better game if you ignore the sidequests then? I'm not someone who has to do everything in a game, I generally like doing sidequests if it gets me good gear and skills and whatever but I don't care about missing stuff otherwise really. And if the spoils make me really overpowered I wouldn't mind missing out. I'd mainly be worried about missing plot stuff really

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Paperhouse posted:

Is it a better game if you ignore the sidequests then? I'm not someone who has to do everything in a game, I generally like doing sidequests if it gets me good gear and skills and whatever but I don't care about missing stuff otherwise really. And if the spoils make me really overpowered I wouldn't mind missing out. I'd mainly be worried about missing plot stuff really

Just do the first round of Colony 6 upgrades (ie; get all four buildings to Level 1) to get the reactor for the portable gem furnace. That's all you really need.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



So Chrono Trigger has a branching storyline? Or at least multiple endings I believe. But a JRPG is not typically that short even if I know what I'm doing. Is it worth playing the game through twice in a row to try and unlock these different endings or whatever? Does it take a long time?

Suppose I should mention I'm also getting Chrono Cross and it has the same "you need multiple playthroughs" thing going on I hear. I just know CC isn't that popular on this forum.

Cake Attack
Mar 26, 2010

I haven't played Chrono Trigger that much but as I recall the NG+ feature as well as the structure of the game (you can fight the final boss at any time starting fairly early on) means getting multiple endings doesn't really require playing the game multiple times.

Also Chrono Cross doesn't need multiple playthroughs unless I'm forgetting something which is likely because I played it once when I was 14.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.

NikkolasKing posted:

So Chrono Trigger has a branching storyline? Or at least multiple endings I believe. But a JRPG is not typically that short even if I know what I'm doing. Is it worth playing the game through twice in a row to try and unlock these different endings or whatever? Does it take a long time?

It's not exactly a branching storyline, aside from a couple of ending variations that depend on optional things you can do in the later parts of game: the way it works is that you can confront the end boss at any time beyond a certain point in the game (or if you're in New Game+, at any point right from the start of the game) and what ending you get depends on how far you've advanced the plot. So you can pretty much play all the way through the first time without worrying about endings, get a normal ending, and then play through a second time with a guide to collect all the alternate endings.

AngryRobotsInc
Aug 2, 2011

CT's endings are determined by when in the plot you beat the final boss. It can be hard to get some of the earliest endings on a first run NG+ (one requires you fighting the final boss solo, or beating a powered up version of it later in the plot), but it's doable. Just don't save once you go to fight it, and you can load up the old save and continue on.

Edit: Beaten

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Cake Attack posted:

I haven't played Chrono Trigger that much but as I recall the NG+ feature as well as the structure of the game (you can fight the final boss at any time starting fairly early on) means getting multiple endings doesn't really require playing the game multiple times.

Also Chrono Cross doesn't need multiple playthroughs unless I'm forgetting something which is likely because I played it once when I was 14.

CC and CT both handle being able to fight the final boss at virtually any time in NG+ the same way, with the different endings that result depending on when you did it. No real branching story in either case, though.


I know CC gets shat upon a lot here--and probably with good reason--but the music means I have a soft spot for it pretty much automatically. The theme that plays when you do the trick to the final boss right, and it begins dying? Touches a nerve every drat time I hear it. I'm weird with some music like that. v:shobon:v

From 0m0s to 2m5s in this is what I mean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utmO5_F-1q4

(ed: incidentally, anyone know what that deep bass instrument is that starts at like 0m56s?)

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Aug 23, 2014

BloodWulfe
Mar 18, 2003

NikkolasKing posted:

So Chrono Trigger has a branching storyline? Or at least multiple endings I believe. But a JRPG is not typically that short even if I know what I'm doing. Is it worth playing the game through twice in a row to try and unlock these different endings or whatever? Does it take a long time?

Suppose I should mention I'm also getting Chrono Cross and it has the same "you need multiple playthroughs" thing going on I hear. I just know CC isn't that popular on this forum.

There are 13 different Chrono Trigger endings, but everything leading up to them is basically the same. You just do some events earlier, or you leave Chrono dead, or you NG+ beat up Lavos at the start, and in exchange you get a slightly different ending. Because the story doesn't really branch off into new areas it's not really worth replaying.

Chrono Cross is more of the same. It has 12 different endings, but they're not dramatically different, though the plot towards each ending changes more than in CT. You can get two of them on your first playthrough, but everything else is NG+ territory, and it's also not worth it.

Just play the games and enjoy them (including CC!), and then google the other endings afterwards.

Forest Thief Pud
Dec 26, 2011

NikkolasKing posted:

So Chrono Trigger has a branching storyline? Or at least multiple endings I believe. But a JRPG is not typically that short even if I know what I'm doing. Is it worth playing the game through twice in a row to try and unlock these different endings or whatever? Does it take a long time?

Suppose I should mention I'm also getting Chrono Cross and it has the same "you need multiple playthroughs" thing going on I hear. I just know CC isn't that popular on this forum.

The only thing Cross really "needs" multiple playthroughs for is for a couple of different scenarios when the plot splits, which doesn't really change a whole lot in the grand scheme of things beyond which (usually) worthless characters you get, different endings which are determined by when in the plot you fight the final boss, and a boss that's only accessible on NG+. Probably not worth the effort unless you really enjoy the game or are somehow incredibly bored.

chairface
Oct 28, 2007

No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

Rookersh posted:

Can someone "explain" the Dark Eye setting to me?
:words:

Seconding this. I remember playing most of the way through Star Trail as a kid but the exact mechanics are all jumbled up with intervening decades. Also how do I not be bad at Realms of Arkania HD?

Microcline
Jul 27, 2012

BloodWulfe posted:

I don't agree with your opinions on Star Ocean, except that FATE LEINGOD is definitely stupider than EDGE MAVERICK. I love that name and always hear 80s synths when I read it.

I'll totally agree with your Xenosaga comment though. That series nailed overarching plot and world building and space opera. It's so goofy and sort of stupid, and the second game is really rough, but I love it and I'm super bummed that we'll never see anything like it again. I can barely picture a single big JRPG these days, much less three connected space opera ones. I suppose FFXIII is three connected games, but it's not at all the same level of connected that Xenosaga was.

e: though the new Xenoblade looks like a series of Xenosaga cutscenes so there's that

I'm kind of glad the "one JRPG for the price of three" trend died with the PS2 (although it seems to have infected other genres...). Any serialization is going to impact quality unless it's already finished beforehand (or you have precognitive developers). Xenosaga doesn't tell a more involved story than Xenogears, but it takes three times as long because the pacing is stuck at "Kislev D-Block" for the first two games and the plot is less coherent because you can't go back and revise a game you've already released.

I do hope he includes a bit more of the straight-faced goofyness of 'gears and 'saga, like Citan letting the party unknowingly eat ground people for no reason or the villains of Xenosaga retrieving the corpse of Mary Magdalene from space and using it to create a zombie cyborg.


Forest Thief Pud posted:

The only thing Cross really "needs" multiple playthroughs for is for a couple of different scenarios when the plot splits, which doesn't really change a whole lot in the grand scheme of things beyond which (usually) worthless characters you get, different endings which are determined by when in the plot you fight the final boss, and a boss that's only accessible on NG+. Probably not worth the effort unless you really enjoy the game or are somehow incredibly bored.

Fortunately, there's a pretty great LP of it in the archives, so no one should ever need to play Chrono Cross again.

Lotus Aura
Aug 16, 2009

KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!

Microcline posted:

I'm kind of glad the "one JRPG for the price of three" trend died with the PS2

White Knight Chronicles was originally meant to be 3 games. 4 if you include the PSP prequel.

Golden Sun even got its third game for the DS. Eventually.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Picked up Xenoblade again after a couple month break. And I'm enjoying it so far. Here are some thoughts (I just beat Xord for an idea of where I am)


Reyn seems loving useless, his entire gimmick is that he's supposed to be the tank right? well he's a loving lovely one because he can't hold aggro for poo poo, which makes it impossible to do any of the positional attacks because the monsters are always glued to Shulk. I've been trying to use Shadow Eye to combat this but even upgraded it seems to give me enough time to do maybe one attack before they're back on me.


Fights feel really schizophrenic difficulty wise even around the same level, sometimes the enemies do nothing to me, othertimes I'm fighting to stay alive and with healing on a cooldown basis this is really annoying.


Am I able to get away with not really messing with the sidequests? I don't really care about getting ultimate weapons or armor as long as I can beat the game without too much issue due to being underleveled or whatever.


What defines an enemy skill that Shield will block? Sometimes it turns the deadly attacks to 0, other times it does nothing and one of my party members still get hosed. It's never the same abilities obviously, but I don't really know how to tell what will and won't be blocked.


I know it makes sense in universe but I really hate having to blow a Monado cooldown just to fight Mechon properly, it's really annoying and can break the flow of combat if you run into two groups close enough and have to wait for the cooldown to reset to actually beat them in a timely manner.


And finally, back to my first comment, is there just something I'm doing wrong because it's not fun being unable to fully use my abilities because I can never position myself properly to use them most of the time due to aggro.

Ibram Gaunt fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Aug 23, 2014

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Ibram Gaunt posted:

Picked up Xenoblade again after a couple month break. And I'm enjoying it so far. Here are some thoughts (I just beat Xord for an idea of where I am)


Reyn seems loving useless, his entire gimmick is that he's supposed to be the tank right? well he's a loving lovely one because he can't hold aggro for poo poo, which makes it impossible to do any of the positional attacks because the monsters are always glued to Shulk. I've been trying to use Shadow Eye to combat this but even upgraded it seems to give me enough time to do maybe one attack before they're back on me.


Fights feel really schizophrenic difficulty wise even around the same level, sometimes the enemies do nothing to me, othertimes I'm fighting to stay alive and with healing on a cooldown basis this is really annoying.


Am I able to get away with not really messing with the sidequests? I don't really care about getting ultimate weapons or armor as long as I can beat the game without too much issue due to being underleveled or whatever.


What defines an enemy skill that Shield will block? Sometimes it turns the deadly attacks to 0, other times it does nothing and one of my party members still get hosed. It's never the same abilities obviously, but I don't really know how to tell what will and won't be blocked.


I know it makes sense in universe but I really hate having to blow a Monado cooldown just to fight Mechon properly, it's really annoying and can break the flow of combat if you run into two groups close enough and have to wait for the cooldown to reset to actually beat them in a timely manner.


And finally, back to my first comment, is there just something I'm doing wrong because it's not fun being unable to fully use my abilities because I can never position myself properly to use them most of the time due to aggro.

You might want to try tweaking Reyn's active and passive skills, along with his gems. What've you got on him at the moment?

Microcline
Jul 27, 2012

Ibram Gaunt posted:

Am I able to get away with not really messing with the sidequests? I don't really care about getting ultimate weapons or armor as long as I can beat the game without too much issue due to being underleveled or whatever.

Yes. In fact, most posters recommend skipping the majority of sidequests on your first playthrough as they tend to be grindy and leave you overleveled for the main plot. (The ultimate weapons and armors are monster drops anyway)


Ibram Gaunt posted:

What defines an enemy skill that Shield will block? Sometimes it turns the deadly attacks to 0, other times it does nothing and one of my party members still get hosed. It's never the same abilities obviously, but I don't really know how to tell what will and won't be blocked.

Shield blocks based on two factors:
1. It must be a talent art
2. Your shield level mush be equal or greater than than the enemy's talent art level



So if an enemy is charging up Party Kill III, you need at least three levels in Shield to block it.

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

Paperhouse posted:

Is it a better game if you ignore the sidequests then? I'm not someone who has to do everything in a game, I generally like doing sidequests if it gets me good gear and skills and whatever but I don't care about missing stuff otherwise really. And if the spoils make me really overpowered I wouldn't mind missing out. I'd mainly be worried about missing plot stuff really
Yes and no, mostly yes. The side quest system is a bit convoluted if you want to go for completion, so you'll need a guide for starters. The second is that most sidequests are excessively tedious and exist to build up "affinity" with all of the NPCs in the world which leads to more side quests that give actual tangible rewards. Every character has a skill tree gated behind side quests but it's really not vital. There are also some unique skills for the MC that are OP as gently caress but again, not vital.

There are a few story flesh outs hidden within the side quests but I don't remember anything memorable. I really did not enjoy 'building the city' myself. Nothing within the side quests contribute to the main plot, although there I do vaguely remember one sidequest late in the game that vaguely tries to tie up some loose ends regarding a certain late game event.

The huge negative about the side quests is that they completely obliterate the pacing of the game. The entire sky can be falling (metaphorically) and suddenly you'll have like 30 collection quests and maybe a pit stop at your town to build a wall if you so choose. And this happens a lot. The side quests will also inflate your levels to an insane degree if you do a ton, to the point that combat becomes a one click affair.

So yeah, I always suggest to everyone to ignore the side quests for the most part (I mean if someone you like is giving you a quest and you feel like clicking on it, by all means). The caveat to this is don't be that guy that avoids every trash pack on the way to the boss. Actively fight the stuff in your path so your levels stay on par and this keeps the game very balanced for you. A lot of people have played this way and can testify that it works out great - myself included. It still ends up being a 50-60 hour JRPG in its own right.

If you still want more after that, then reboot it to NG+ where you are already OP and start down the checklist.

Rascyc fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Aug 23, 2014

The Taint Reaper
Sep 4, 2012

by Shine
There's 400+ sidequests in the game. The maximum tangible record award for doing side quests is 300. The missable sidequests are replaced by alternates late in the game. So you can always max out affinity with quests and fighting.

Dross
Sep 26, 2006

Every night he puts his hot dogs in the trees so the pigeons can't get them.

Talk me into or out of playing Enchanted Arms.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Dross posted:

Talk me into or out of playing Enchanted Arms.

Cons:
It has a terrible story, awful graphics and really dull and tedious gameplay. Once you get a good monster you basically sleepwalk through the game. It was a launch-era title and it looks and feels like it in every way. It isn't unplayably terrible but is just very dull and very uninteresting.

Pros:
You can get the robot from Metal Wolf Chaos in it but only in the 360 version IIRC.

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