The Screenwriting Thread: Without Us You Would Be Staring at A Blank Screen

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Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

I'm in the beginning stages of writing a screenplay.

Is it kosher to mention a specific song for a scene? The script I'm writing is a high school one with a certain type of music being an important part of the character (leading up to a battle of the bands for the finale). I know rights are a big issue but I have also seen Charlie Kaufman call for Bang On A Can performing Brian Eno's Music For Airports in the Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind screenplay and Aaron Sorkin call for Paul Young's Love Of The Common People in the beginning sequence of The Social Network screenplay.

TheYellowFog posted:

Maybe it was another thread in CD, I can't remember.

Yeah, it is a major rule in CD.

quote:

Piracy is naughty: Just don't talk about downloading or in any way illegally acquiring copies of films. At all. Ever. I don't care if you do it, just don't talk about it. This includes illegally acquiring and/or distributing screenplays. As of now, this is a bannable offence.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3280818

Ninja_Orca posted:

I wanted to get my hands on Inception as well. It's on Amazon, so once I have a bit more money in the bank I'll probably just buy it. It's running about anywhere from $9 to $12 dollars, so I don't feel all that cheated in purchasing it.

The Kindle version is only $7.79 if you don't mind going the digital route.

http://www.amazon.com/Inception-The-Shooting-Script-ebook/dp/B004SBBT0W

# ¿ Apr 7, 2011 18:53

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 05:31

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Juanito posted:

I wouldn't get the Kindle version, if you're a real fan of Inception, since the book has concept art, storyboards, and more.

So does the Kindle version. Granted, in not as high quality as the book, some of the early notebook scribbles are hard to read but if you are mainly interested in the screenplay, it is formatted properly.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2011 20:05

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Longbaugh01 posted:

I was going to mention this example to you until you brought it up yourself.

I think it's one of those things where if you are just starting out, and hoping to sell your screenplay, then you probably want to stay away from that sort of directorial decision as much as possible. If you're going to direct it yourself, and can secure the rights, then go ahead, why not?

The thing is, Aaron Sorkin is Aaron Sorkin. He's a proven commodity, and can break rules (reading the TSN screenplay I noticed more than just the music thing). You'll notice though that his idea was totally left out of the film itself as far as I can tell.

Anyway, I guess my point is that if you're not a proven commodity, and are hoping to sell whatever you're writing, or even just use it as portfolio material, then I would try to be as hands-off as possible when it comes to ideas that, once production begins, would usually fall under the purview of the director. Though, If you already have a good track record in the industry, you can insert things such as those more and more, and whether they are used or not, the powers-that-be won't care as much that you have gone beyond your role.

I could be wrong, but from what I have heard and read, it seems to boil down to this.

I didn't mean calling for a song to be played over a scene like in my two examples. This would be a specific set of vinyl records to be shown in the beginning (to set up why the character is the way he is) along with covers of two to three specific songs from them later on. I don't plan to direct it myself and there is zero chance I could get the rights to use them by myself (but we are putting the cart ahead of the horse)

What you mentioned was what I was afraid of. I couldn't find any information on whether it was ok or frowned upon but overlooked due to name value.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Apr 7, 2011

# ¿ Apr 7, 2011 22:30

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

I decided to scrap my last idea, for now, and start on another one. This time I am actually writing and it feels great.

One of my characters is looking for a job online. Would it be ok to mention Craigslist or Backpage by name? It will be popping up again later in the story with a different use.

------

Hellwuzzat posted:

Also, gonna say that purchasing Complete Screenwriter's Manual : A Comprehensive Reference of Format and Style is a good idea. 200+ pages of formatty goodness that you won't get from the "How to Write a Story/Musical/Porn" books.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321397932

Thank you for that recommendation. It has answered most of my questions.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 03:06 on May 5, 2011

# ¿ May 5, 2011 02:53

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

screenwritersblues posted:

For the most part, you can if it's a spec. I've read plenty of drafts that use name brand things, hell I remember an episode of Two and a Half Men that mentioned J-Date by name, so yes go head and use either one, because if it works then it should be used.

I didn't know if it was another thing that will get a nobody's script thrown in the trash but is ignored for established writers.

-----

I'm trying to work through a rough spot but I don't know if this scene is panning out the way I am picturing it in my head.

A little back story, Katherine (my main character) is having issues finding a job. After talking to her son about her issues, she notices an ad on Craigslist for a housekeeper.

This would be the next scene. The idea is that the shot would open on a closeup of Maggie (first time she is introduced) and stay there until it is revealed that Katherine is sitting across from her.

code:

                                                         CUT TO:

INT. HOTEL, STAFF BREAK ROOM - DAWN

An ancient looking women wearing a grey housekeeper�s uniform 
sits at a table with lit cigarette sitting in an ashtray and
a paper cup of coffee in front of her. She is wearing a nametag 
with the name MAGGIE on it.  

                   MAGGIE
          I can�t tell you how happy I am to see you this morning. 
          I thought for sure I would be greeted by another loving 
          beaner. 

Maggie takes a sip of coffee.
                   
                  MAGGIE (CONT�D)
          Seems like they are the only type of people who show up 
          for this job anymore.  

Maggie takes a long drag off of her cigarette before continuing.

                  MAGGIE (CONT�D)
          Don�t get me wrong. They can clean a room quicker than 
          anybody but they are poo poo for conversation. Half of them
          can�t even speak the loving language and only a handful 
          of them can say more than a few basic phrases.  

Maggie takes a quick hit off of her cigarette. 

                 MAGGIE (CONT�D)
          I swear some times I think the hotel snatches them up 
          right out of the desert. 

Sitting across from Maggie is Katherine in an identical uniform 
with a mortified look on her face. 
              
                 MAGGIE (CONT�D)
          Well, enough gibber-jabbering.

Maggie stands up, hastily snubs out her cigarette and downs the rest 
of her coffee before crushing the cup.
                 
                 MAGGIE (CONT�D)
          Let�s get to work.

Also, should I remove the (CONT'D) from behind each MAGGIE? Final Draft automatically added them but I don't think it is right (isn't it suppose to be used for when dialog goes from one page to another?)

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 15:35 on May 29, 2011

# ¿ May 29, 2011 06:52

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

I'm curious. What is your typical work schedule?

When I buckle down, I can pull out about two pages a day over the course of a few hours. It feels like I am crawling.

Also do you plot out the entire story before hand?

I have a basic plot outline for the beginning mapped out on a dry erase board.

CoolZidane posted:

As far as I can tell, what you have written suitably implies what you want without "directing" the scene yourself. I would suggest, however, revising that line to make it active voice; something like "Katherine sits across from her, mortified, in an identical uniform."

I think it's justified in this case, since it's essentially a monologue broken up by small actions.

Thank you for the help. I fixed that line and left the (CONT'D) alone.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2011 20:41

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Quick question. How do you handle scenes in a parked car?

My character is sitting in her car which is parked in her driveway.
The first time, the camera would be INT.
The second time, the camera would be EXT.

I can't find anything on Google or in my book about it.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2011 05:05

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

NeuroticErotica posted:

The character's inside? Put it inside. It's not really something to worry TOO much about.

You're right. When I made that post, I just came off a five page spree and was worried that I had run into another wall along with screwing up an earlier scene. I ended up doing

INT. KATHERINE�S CAR - MORNING for the first and
EXT. KATHERINE�S HOUSE, DRIVEWAY - AFTERNOON for the second where I described the car parked and Katherine sitting inside.

Kung Fu Jesus posted:

I have a question that may be too insider but I've always been curious. Maybe someone has insight.

I'll use Ridley Scott's Robin Hood as an example. There were articles about the original screenplay being a total reworking of the Robin Hood story from the perspective of the sheriff. Sort of a CSI type of thing with RObin Hood being the bad guy. Apparently this is how the screenplay was sold. Of course, over the years of development, we got something completely different on the screen. And we know this happens all the time.

When a screenplay is changed so much between the original sale and the final filming draft, why can't the original writers take back the original idea and re-use it? It sucks that an original idea that was initially what got it sold, gets completely wasted and thrown out the window forever just because the screenplay has to appease the star, director, producers, etc. I would think that legally there should be a point where the final draft is so different from the original that it should be considered a different piece of work.

I'm not an insider at all but I've actually read about this so I think I can answer your question. This may not be 100% correct.

When you sell a script, it becomes the property of the studio. Whether they choose to use it or not is up to them. Not every script purchased is turned into a movie. The studio messing with the script is expected and the screenwriter tries to minimize the damage done during the process. Sometimes it works, sometimes they get replaced by another writer.

It's considered the price to write movies.

In your example, Ethan Reiff and Cyrus Voris still received a credit so they get additional money on top of what they sold the script for.

The book Tales From The Script touched on all of that.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2011 05:26

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

HAL9100 posted:

I've written my first piece of comedy which is beginning some pre-production (casting and location scouting) over the weekend. It is intended to standalone as either a five minute one-off short but also as, (every finger crossed) a basic teaser for an original pilot.

It's a mockumentary about two best friends with a crappy job. The pay sucks, the boss is insane and the uniforms are tacky. They are henchmen for hire to the least effective villains in history.

The story is meant to focus more on their friendship as two semi-misfit characters who slack off at work, while the ridiculous drama of their workplace will be played off as mundane as much as possible.

I'd love to have some goons read it and let me know what they think. I've got a good feeling about it but I'm stressing about accessibility and never dabbling in comedy before. I'll shoot an email to any interested parties, its five or six pages.

I'm definitely interested in reading it. My email is [removed]

Kind of sounds like a mix of Henchman 21/Henchman 24 from The Venture Bros and The Office.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jun 15, 2011

# ¿ Jun 15, 2011 15:54

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

HAL9100 posted:

Definitely. I had someone point out to me the Venture Bros. connection while I was writing, since I had never gotten down with the show. After watching it full through I can say that it's definitely a cross somewhere between the two examples you mentioned, possibly with characters that could be more at home in Sunny in Philly than either of the above.

Basically, if Henching is a lovely version of the army in Venture Bros, in our universe it is equivalent to a fast food job or warehouse work.

Sending it off now, quote free. Thanks.

Here are my thoughts from when I was reading your script. I hope I'm not being too harsh (although you requested that

)

- Less adverbs (fairly, slightly, politely, etc.) in your descriptions and dialog.
- You only need to caps the names when the character is introduced, not throughout the entire thing.
- Rewrite some of the dialog. I know you are trying to get a unscriped Office type of feel but some of it seems forced and/or unneccesary.

Regarding the toaster contest: It is strange but not strange enough to be funny. Who won the competition? Actually, that whole scene feels like it is unnecessary. You may be better off cutting it completely.

What lunchroom does the Todd confrontation take place in? The old job? What's the story with Todd? He is only mentioned once and isn't mentioned after his brief (silent) confrontation with Carl. You may want to flesh that part out.

Is the dialog between Carl and Hunter after that taking place in the Interview Room? If it is, CUT TO: INT. INTERVIEW ROOM

In the interview room after the bill story, you may want the interviewer to actually ask the question O.S instead of just pausing for it. I would tighten up Carl's dialog after that too. With Carl's "Spandex smells funny when it burns." line, you may want to add some direction to that line like (under his breath) or something of that nature and end with it (cut Hunter's line)

What is Hunter's uniform when he shows up in the Parking Lot? You never described what the new uniform was.

"There is a door or window at the back of the room that is shut." Pick one and go with it.

Why would the Super Villian crashing through the door/window while laughing maniacally get Hunter's reaction "Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I was afraid of."? I thought that type of over the top stuff was par for the course for them. Maybe turn that into an over the top theatric introduction for the Super Villian and cut to Hunter's reaction (it's suppose to be a :jerkbag:

-type reaction, right?) in the interview room.

Replace CUT TO: CREDITS with THE END

As is, the ending feels like a non-ending. Almost like you had more but cut it in the middle for time.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jun 17, 2011

# ¿ Jun 17, 2011 20:44

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Here's a question.

I have a two-sided phone call with only one side of the call seen.

KATHERINE
(into phone, groggy)
Hello?

RUSSEL (V.O.)
(over phone, cheerfully)
Hello, Mom.

Do I have to keep using (into phone) (over phone) afterwards or is that implied?

HAL9100 posted:

Thanks. You basically nailed down almost exactly what I was already feeling, except the door/window thing that was more just knowing that we're not sure yet which location we're using, so it may change.

I'm working on a rewrite at work tonight, which I guess means I'm being paid more than most writers.

No problem. Glad I could help you out

I figured as much with the door/window thing but you should still pick one. Scripts are never followed exactly as written. If your friends can't get your selection, I imagine they will ask you for an alternative (or come up with one on their own)

I remember reading the script for the remake of Dawn Of The Dead, it has a big section talking about the mall having an atrium, big skylight, all these brand name stores, carts jammed upside down to block the escalators...and none of that poo poo is in the final movie.

- edit

screenwritersblues posted:

Anyone using Final Draft 8 know how to stop making the same character speak without Final Draft saying that it is continued after an action? It's starting to to get annoying now and doesn't look right.

Here you go.

http://support.finaldraft.com/article.aspx?cid=1001&aid=1075

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jun 20, 2011

# ¿ Jun 20, 2011 01:08

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

The_Doctor posted:

You'd use (O.S.) because it's off-screen, not a voice-over (V.O.). But you don't need to say it at all because it should be clear from the action that it's a phonecall. Thus:

Katherine stumbles for the ringing phone, finds it, presses it to her ear, her eyes still shut.

KATHERINE
(groggy)
Hello?

RUSSEL (O.S.)
(cheerfully)
Hello, Mom!

And you'd use (O.S.) for every instance of Russel in that scene because he continues to be off-screen.

Wouldn't it be a (V.O.) since Russel isn't there and isn't seen? I thought (O.S.) was for situations where the character is there physically but out of the camera's view?

My book was saying (V.O.) plus (into/over phone) but I figured it was overkill to use (into/over phone) every time after it was used once.

quote:

Voice Over (V.O.)
There are three applications of the voice-over device:

1) A voice heard though a mechanical device. The (V.O.) convention is most commonly used when an unseen character's voice is heard through a mechanical device, such as a telephone, a radio, an intercom, a tape recording, an answering machine, or a public address system

2) The voice of a narrator
3) The thoughts of a character

# ¿ Jun 20, 2011 14:07

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

The_Doctor posted:

I'd argue for (O.S.) myself. Voice-over just reads as narration stuff to me. And you're right, you don't need to keep putting it every time. What book is that? It seems slightly outdated.

The book is The Complete Screenwriter's Manual: A Comprehensive Reference of Format and Style by Stephen Bowles, Ronald Mangravite & Peter Zorn. Came out in 2005

I understand the idea behind listing it as (V.O.) since it is something that would have to be done in post unlike (O.S.) which could be done by the actor on location.

I'll leave it as (V.O.) for now and do some research to see what others have to say about it.

Thanks

# ¿ Jun 20, 2011 19:31

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

The more I write, the more I realize that my strengths are dialog/action and my biggest weakness is description.

I am currently at another wall. I pushed this out, in hopes of getting over it, but I have the urge to delete it all. The setup is the walls are caving in and Katherine is presented with a tough solution to her problems. I don't explicitly state it in the screenplay but this is the scene where she retreats to a place that use to be a refuge for her.

code:

                                              CUT TO:

EXT. PARK, PLAYGROUND - AFTERNOON

A little boy chases a little girl around a big playground 
structure. The boy is trying his best to catch her while the 
girl is enjoying being chased. The girl runs up the stairs to 
enter the playground structure and the boy follows. A women, 
who could pass as a younger Katherine, carrying a toddler 
boy, sits him down at the stairs and he joyfully runs up the 
stairs. As the toddler goes through the structure, the women 
follows him outside like a shadow. When the boy makes it to 
the raised corkscrew slide, at the end, he stands triumphant 
at the top. The women stands at the bottom and beckons him to 
come down. The toddler slides down with his arms in the air 
and a big smile on his face. When he reaches the bottom, the 
women grabs him under his arms, lifts him up and spins him 
around with carefree abandon. In the background, Katherine 
sits, somber, on a bench watching it all.

The idea is that the camera would follow the little boy and girl until they go up the stairs (and off screen). It would than follow the women and the toddler, before stopping on Katherine in a long shot. She is on the outside, away from the fun and joy. Almost like a ghost. Did any of that come through what I written or is it all poo poo (like I'm afraid it is)?

I'm twenty-one pages in so far, which is pretty wild (to me) considering this is my first attempt at writing a screenplay. I'm not going to kid myself. It isn't twenty-one pages of pure gold but with some polish, I think it can be good.

I definitely feel like I'm having an issue with how much detail I should use to describe the environment. Since I don't know what I'm writing this for, I'm thinking no-budget "as long as it has the few things I describe for the scene to work, good, it works" but I'm having second thoughts about that. Is that a problem to save and address in later drafts?

# ¿ Jun 29, 2011 22:17

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Thank you for all of the advice. Seems like every time I hit a wall, I make a post in here and you guys help me push forward.

Take 2

code:

                                               CUT TO:

EXT. PARK, PLAYGROUND - AFTERNOON

LITTLE BOY chases a LITTLE GIRL around a big playground 
structure. The Little Girl is oblivious to the seriousness of 
the Little Boy�s demeanour. She runs up the stairs to enter 
the playground structure and the Little Boy follows.  

WOMEN, who could pass as a younger Katherine, carrying a 
TODDLER, sits him down at the entrance. As the Toddler goes 
through the structure, the Women follows him outside like a 
shadow. When he makes it to the corkscrew slide, he pauses at 
the top to take in the view. The Women stands at the bottom 
and calls for him to slide down. The Toddler slides down. 
When he reaches the bottom, the Women picks him up and spins 
him around with carefree abandon. 

In the background, Katherine sits on a bench spectating. 
There is a clear disconnect between Katherine and the fun 
being had at the playground.

Testro posted:

The first question I have is how relevant is any of the action? The scene is nice enough, but does any of it really matter? Is the corkscrew slide relevant? Who are the characters? Are they just any old people who happen to be in the same frame (for juxtaposition) or are they characters who will pop up again at a later date?

My idea was that:

The boy chasing the girl would symbolize what is going on between Katherine and Jamal (which is why I tried to jam in that the boy was playing but serious while the girl was just playing)
The woman who looks like Katherine with the toddler would trick the audience into thinking that they were watching a flashback (in the beginning, her son was at the funeral for her husband and over a phone call, we find out that he is away at college on a scholarship) until they noticed Katherine sitting in the background. The camera would stay with her after that point.

We will never see any of them again besides Katherine. The corkscrew slide isn't relevant but every playground I remember going to had the corkscrew slide as the main attraction (and it was slightly elevated compared to the rest of the structure, have a small amount of stairs leading up to it).

bartlebee posted:

And twenty-one pages? Is it supposed to be a short? Feature-length will run anywhere from seventy to a hundred and twenty pages, generally speaking. And I'll tell you one thing, if it's your first screenplay, don't expect gold. It's okay to not be perfect while you're just figuring things out.

I'm going straight for the jugular on this one. 120 or bust

NeuroticErotica posted:

Came across this today in a script and can't believe I forgot it.

I/E - Character's Car - Time.

Sets it up perfectly.

I actually saw that in my book, before I posted the question, but I couldn't figure out the correct way to use it. When I looked online, most of the people used it only in the case of something outside of the car and something inside of the car.

I think you were right the first time about just keeping it simple.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jul 2, 2011

# ¿ Jul 2, 2011 18:40

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Bonk posted:

Also adding some advice here, hope you haven't gotten too far past this point without some fixes yet:

1) Get the "CUT TO:" out of there. It's out of use, and is implied by a new slugline.
2) "PARK, PLAYGROUND" is redundant and improper format. You probably just want PLAYGROUND. If you absolutely need both, it's "PARK - PLAYGROUND", and only if you're going to be setting scenes elsewhere in the same park.
3) Fix all instances of "Women", which I'm guessing is supposed to be "Woman".
4) Break up that second paragraph unless that's a reeeeally long tracking shot (which isn't your call anyway). Action text should be 3-4 lines max, and new shots can often be separated onto new lines. That paragraph is at least 5 shots, so work with that.
5) Unless "afternoon" is absolutely integral to your plot (like how "dawn" would be relevant in a vampire movie), ONLY use "DAY" or "NIGHT" in a slugline.
6) Stick to what the viewer sees. How would a person SEE "obliviousness", "carefree abandon", or "clear disconnect"? Don't leave that up to a director or actor. You can't "see" internal emotion, you have to demonstrate it by the look on a character's face, their actions, their position in relation to others, or their mannerisms.

That was the top of page 24, I am currently on page 44

I'm hoping to finish the first draft by the end of the month. I'll be giving this three drafts before moving on to my next idea.

1) I thought CUT TO: was needed when going from one scene to another?
2) Weird, my book uses commas in situations like that. I used both to clarify the location to the reader. I didn't want somebody to think school playground.
3) Good catch. I always mix those two up.
4) I imagined the whole thing as a series of tracking shots when I wrote it. (1 for the boy/girl running, 1 for the toddler going through the playground and 1 for when Katherine is revealed)
5) Really? I thought it was ok to use things like that as long as you didn't get specific (like a certain time)
6) That was my attempt to keep it short but get the thought across. I think I was able to clear up most of it in the second try at writing it. Carefree abandon is still the big problem. I was thinking the mom playing it up laughing which made the toddler do the same. Where they were in their own little world of joy before Katherine is revealed in the background. That's hard to get across in a few words.

I wish there was a set in stone list of screenwriting rules. Seems like everybody has different ideas and it is fun to see how many are broken in a produced script.

I read Robert Ben Garant & Thomas Lennon's book on screenwriting and they actually said to write characters for a specific actor (which is one of the biggest no-nos in other screenwriting books I can think of)

quote:

Your goal is to make the people reading your script picture the MOVIE in their heads. Leave as little to the imagination as possible. If they�re already picturing BEN STILLER and ZACH GALIFIANAKIS before they even GET to the dialogue, how much does that help them picture your movie in their heads? ANSWER: a lot. Again, you�re not writing a novel. Which brings us to the MAGIC word in studio movie character development:

Think.

As in: Think Ben Stiller. Think Dwayne �The Rock� Johnson. Think Reese Witherspoon. That magic word will make your movie easier to write, easier to read, and EASIER TO SELL.

See the difference in the script samples below.

INT. THE PENTAGON � DAY

GENERAL SLATER (40) storms in. He�s a tall, tough, lifelong military man: he�s been through combat and came out hard as nails � but something tells us that under all that Kevlar and muscle he�s not such a bad guy.

He�s FURIOUS.

(- sporadic edit, I edited out alot of this to get to the point)

INT. THE PENTAGON � DAY

GENERAL SLATER (think Dwayne �The Rock� Johnson) storms in. He�s FURIOUS.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Aug 20, 2011

# ¿ Aug 20, 2011 04:01

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

the Bunt posted:

I think writing for a specific actor is a double edged sword. It definitely helps WHILE writing to get a better grasp on the character, but you never want to get too attached to that idea.

Interestingly, Paul Thomas Anderson does this all the time. He wrote Magnolia with Tom Cruise in mind for the Frank Mackey role, he wrote Punch-Drunk Love with Adam Sandler in mind, and he wrote There Will Be Blood for Daniel-Day Lewis. In that last scenario, he sent a half finished script to Day-Lewis, which gives the impression that if DDL was not down or able to be in it, the movie wouldn't have gotten made.

Of course, that's just a fun little anecdote. I don't think anyone in here is PTA.

When it comes to writing for a specific actor, only thing I can think of is the documentary Dreams On Spec.

This women, Deborah, quit her job to write and produce her own movie. Who is her first choice actor she is sure she can get which will help get her funding? Adrian Brody.

Her whole section was extremely depressing. She goes from all the confidence in the world to everything is going wrong but it's going to turn out ok to nobody is calling me back and my backup writing jobs fell through to her driving around in her car crying her eyes out. She finally dropped out of the documentary after that.

TheMilkyNutBall posted:

I just finished writing a short (13 pages) about two high school kids who find themselves in a horrible situation during a school fire alarm. I definitely need some objective, and honest critique's so if any goons want to read it let me know.

I'm always down to read and critique goon scripts.

Send me an email at [removed - script received]

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Aug 28, 2011

# ¿ Aug 28, 2011 05:40

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Magic Hate Ball covered most of it.

Here are some things I wrote down while reading.

- I had trouble figuring out that the guidance counselor scenes were a flashback since you didn't mark it as one. In my book, it has (flashback) in the scene line and BACK TO SCENE after the flashback scene. Online, I see people using FLASHBACK TO: (instead of CUT TO:) with BACK TO SCENE after the flashback scene is done.
- Beat and pause should be parenthetical in the dialog, not the description. If it is essential for it to be in the description, give us more than one word.
- If Buck was forced to install the smoke detectors in the bathroom, why didn't he put them up but not enable them? If the school found out that it was his smoke zone, why didn't they fire him?
- Buck is buddy quipping, dad, buddy quipping. You should stabilize his character.
- Keep Dickin', Adam (just kidding - Real line: Stay out of trouble boys.) :siren:

NEVER EVER DO THIS!!!! :siren:

Too much of the script is cliche and it had no payoff.

That doesn't mean that the entire thing is worthless. Mr. Mitchell seemed interesting. Maybe if you reworked the story into the two boys trying to find out what is off about Mr. Mitchell, you would have something.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Aug 29, 2011

# ¿ Aug 29, 2011 18:27

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

TheMilkyNutBall posted:

About your suggestion of making it what's wrong with Mrs. Mitchell - It is interesting but I think I want to keep it more along the lines of the relationship between the two characters. I also don't see how that would be relevant to the characters when they are stuck in a fire alarm (in other words, they'd be more concerned about getting the hell out than worrying over their guidance counselor).

I get the idea but, like Magic Hate Ball said, there is no tension. You haven't conveyed that their friendship is on the line. The fear of getting caught is all in the characters' head. Nothing happens to make the audience think that it is possible when the Dad character is introduced. The consequence of getting caught isn't clear.

The only reason I suggested maybe shifting the story into finding out what is wrong with Mr. Mitchell (is it Mr or Mrs? I thought it was a guy in the screenplay) was to give it that tension. That end game goal. You can still explore the relationship between the two characters. Maybe have bad kid go too far, steal the school keys from his dad and try to pressure the good kid into breaking into the school at night to see what is in the desk drawer after hearing the story from his dad.

But it is your thing. Do what you want with it. Just try to flesh out your thoughts so the whole thing doesn't come off like a reject Degrassi script.

Magic Hate Ball posted:

Also, as Sporadic said, you have something interesting in Mr. Mitchell. The moment with the desk drawer is reminiscent of Kiss Me Deadly. What's in the drawer? I'm curious. Everyone hates high school administrators so it might be amusing to take that track.

I was thinking Pulp Fiction and the briefcase myself when I read that.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2011 20:38

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

TheMilkyNutBall posted:

I have a question regarding 'stakes' in my short script, but it applies generally as well. Isn't it true that the stakes of a story need to be important for the characters in the story, and not necessarily for the audience members? In my script, the characters are high schoolers who are smoking weed in a high school bathroom and they cause the fire alarm to go off... Now for one of the characters, who is the 'smart', more level-headed prep who's making a capricious judgement error, the stakes are incredibly high for him because this fire alarm could mean HUGE trouble for his academic future. Now, while audience members reading the script (or... I guess watching the film) might not care about that sort of offense, don't the stakes 'work' in terms of this character?

Don't get me wrong, it doesn't work in my script the way it is. I also said my stakes involved the friendship between the two so this isn't necessarily applicable, but I just wanted to use this sort of situation as an example because I was confused about it.

Not really.

The script/movie needs to be gripping. That doesn't mean that it has to be full of plot twists or involve high stakes but it does mean that there has to be something to pull people in. An interesting adventure is one idea. Fleshed out, kind of strange characters and amazing dialog is another.

Smoking in the bathroom, good kid going bad after he becomes friends with a bad/lower-income kid, cool burnout janitor, dorky Asian kid. All of it is cliche.

Since it is a short, you don't have the time to make us care about the characters first or establish the friendship between the two kids.

Here's another cliche thing that always pops up midway through a kids' sitcom run. Dorky kid, something happens, his perfect attendance record is in jeopardy. To that character, it is the most important thing in the world.

Why does it work? Because it is usually a subplot, with an established character, played off for laughs.

Could it work with a serious tone and an unestablished character? I think most people would agree it couldn't.

the Bunt posted:

I got put down last time I asked this, but will someone read my script? It's a 180 page character drama. Last time I brought this up, Slashie bitched at me because it was so long and assumed that I was writing a fantasy or sci-fi. But nope. If I had to describe it, it would be an extremely sociopathic mix hybrid of Jeanne Dielman and A Woman Under the Influence. I realize that this is a monstrously sized screenplay, but I'm having a lot of trouble picking out what should be cut.

I'm not trying to sell this script to anyone. If it gets made, it will be me that makes it. It's very personal. So, personally, I don't care if the finished product is like 4 hours, but if it is all redundancy I would like to know. It's hard to look at it myself with an objective lens. anyone willing to try and tackle this?

I'm game.

(received, I'll try to read it tonight)

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Sep 5, 2011

# ¿ Sep 5, 2011 06:43

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

I can never write on the weekend so I decided to get some reading done.

Hollis, I'll edit in my response to your script after I read it later.

the Bunt posted:

Thanks man! Will send the PDF now.

I was writing my thoughts down as I read.

- The way you constructed some of it was strange. Items coming out of nowhere, CUT TO: generic location, the lack of time (I was kind of confused the first time you said that a few months had passed, it didn't come off to me that way while I was reading), camera directions, lack of description for certain scenes (the biggest offender being "Let's fog this bitch out." CUT TO: They do. CUT TO: INT. LIVING ROOM, LATER)
- I hated the ending. There was such a slow build for the first 120ish pages and than all of the sudden the story just accelerated while abandoning everything you previously built up. Her biological father is introduced, other characters just drop out (Ted, the yacht guy she was loving/robbed, the drug dealer guy who gets mad she steps on his bong), everybody's drinking gets out of control, her best friend sleeps with the father, some crazy doctor guy fucks her after patching her up in the ER, she gets bombed with her dad who says he thought of her when he was loving her friend, abandons her friends by not paying the rent, moves back home, beats the hell out of her ex best friend who reveals she is pregnant, gets bombed with her mom. All of that happens over about sixty pages. The ending for 185 pages? Colin tells her some out there dream he had, she apologizes to him, and dives in the ocean. BOO. Sorry if that comes off as too harsh but it was a disappointment.
- Speaking of Eve, what happened with her brother (where she chased him around, dangled a spit rope in his face, and forced him to drink Vodka) came off as extremely out of character. The whole story she pretty much viewed him as perfect and the only thing she truly loved. Under no circumstance did it seem like she had that in her.
- If you are looking for stuff to cut, I think you can safely cut out everything regarding Becca. I get the idea of Eva corrupting somebody but the character was boring, unrealistic and added nothing of real value. Another thing you could cut is (I think it was) the Lake House party which seemed redundant. Maybe take some of the elements from that and put it in one of the other parties.
- With a dream sequence, I think you are suppose to put END OF DREAM at the end.
- What is up with the ("Mordeai"), ("Debaser") in certain sections? Are those songs?

More (potentially petty) things I wrote down.

- Pg 1, regarding Eve's introduction, shouldn't her overall appearance be described when she is first introduced, not later when she is looking at herself in the mirror?
- Pg 2, "You were in my dream last night.~~, Eve.~~"
- Pg 11, who was unable to balance? Eve or Colin?
- Pg 12, maybe add a reason why Eve came in, like she heard the door close.
- Pg 15, laughter from who?
- Pg 25, band plays what?
- Pg 29, where did the receipt come from?
- If you do keep Becca in, it would be more interesting if we saw Eve push her into doing things more. Like the party at her house.
- Pg 121, cut the Eminem line.
- Pg 123, cut "That was definitely the most fun we've seen her have all movie"
- Didn't write down the page but Eva and the Dad drinking while Leaving Las Vegas plays on the screen...no. Just no. Bad.

I hope that didn't come off as too negative. I did enjoy most of the first 2/3rds of the script. With some polish and a rewritten third half, I think you have will something special on your hands.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Sep 10, 2011

# ¿ Sep 10, 2011 22:21

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

the Bunt posted:

-While I'm very sad that you did not like the ending, I can't say I wasn't expecting some negativity around it. I personally feel the problem lies more in the first 2/3rds than the end half. The beginning, I was still getting to know this character and what I wanted to get across. As a result, I feel a lot of it is a little redundant. Most every scene is there to reflect something about Eve, but I'm sure at times it's a little bash-you-over-the-head with the "isn't this girl just messed up!?" over and over again. I could probably do with taking some of those end scenes and spreading them amongst the movie.

To me, the first 2/3rds came off almost like an adventure and slow slide down for Eve...which made the final 1/3 so jarring.

the Bunt posted:

-The transience of the sub-characters was intentional. Eve mostly associates with people she needs to. The drug dealer isn't so much a friend as a convenience, and when he gets (rightfully) angry at her, then he's gone. After he has been, honestly, a really good friend for the whole movie, I thought it would be effective that she (and the movie) drops him at the slightest sign of confliction. Same story with the yacht guy, though I might have spent too much run time on that side-story. I wasn't using all these separate plotlines as a means for it all to coalesce in the end, but to expand more and more on Eve's personality. The sudden appearance of the biological father, probably the most important character besides Eve herself, in the last 70 pages is kinda offputting but that is the effect I wanted. The narrative forms itself around the father and all but disregards everything else to reflect Eve's world. Again, I think the main problem is I took wayyy too long to actually reveal the real story of the film- daddy issues.

I think my biggest issue with some of the sub-characters disappearing is the way they did.

- Ted is dismissed with one line from the mom.
- The yacht guy was robbed. Now he had a safe full of money and drugs. You think he would try to confront Eve or get revenge but nope, the cops search Eve's new apartment, nothing happens, yacht guy never mentioned again.
- The drug dealer did let Eve crash with him and she did sell him Ecstasy for dirt cheap as a thank you. I didn't think they were best buddies but it did seem like there was something there. For all of that to disintegrate over her breaking a bong...seemed silly.

I didn't necessarily care about any of those characters but I was curious to how they would affect Eve.

the Bunt posted:

-The spit/vodka thing could be a bit out of character, maybe. I don't personally think so. She didn't do that out of malice or contempt. I suggested that child abuse is circular. It is a thing her dad did to her, and Colin is the most son-like person in her life, so why not? That's why I made it a point for her not to feel very remorseful about it. poo poo happens.

I didn't get that at all. She woke up early with a hangover to take him places, hung out with him all the time, was the only person she showed real affection to, bought video games for him to play at her apartment. For her to go from that to what she did, with no remorse, it didn't make any sense.

Honestly, I think you are getting stuck in the mud over the whole father thing and trying to make things circular. That came off as more beating me over the head with the message than the parties did.

the Bunt posted:

Thanks!!

I'm very happy you read it all and took the time to critique!

No problem. I'm glad I could help out.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2011 18:33

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

MixMasterGriff posted:

Can I inquire as to what the "crazy eights" are? In your title? Both you and Super Hate Ball have them, was wondering if they were screen-play related.

Cinema Discusso gang tag

# ¿ Sep 12, 2011 21:12

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Magic Hate Ball posted:

It's not so much out of place as it is just another example of some of the excesses your script goes to. A lot of people had a similar problem with Fish Tank, where it crosses the line from crazily despondent to unrealistically melodramatic. Your script is mostly very realistic and that's a great thing because by staying grounded it makes Eve's descent all the more disturbing, but in the last third it veers further and further away from the reality that made it so interesting. Unfortunately my main suggestion is to trim the first half to hell, so you've got some work to do on the second half.

Also also, just in case any of this is discouraging I should say that I really hope that you can trim this down to a more manageable length because the result could be exceptionally stunning.

That's the big thing you have to decide. Are you going to trim the first two-thirds of the script and rework the ending OR are you going to trim/rework the first two-thirds to fit the tone and message you want to get across with final section?

You are the writer. You can make Eve into whatever you want. If you feel like you HAVE to have that sequence in there, plant the seeds earlier on that she is capable of that. Instead of a picture perfect relationship, have Eve be a little rougher on him. Some dialog that can come off as slightly mean but playful ribbing. Maybe have her turn off his game system while he is playing for a laugh.

I think a lot of the issues I have with your script can be fix with that mindset. Put some dialog in one of the earlier smoking scene with the drug dealer/Eve playing up how special and irreplaceable his bong is. Make Yacht Guy more of a pussy so we wouldn't think that he would go after Eve himself. I don't know what to do about the Dad situation since I thought all of that was out of place and hamfisted.

MixMasterGriff posted:

How long is it? Also, what draft is it?

116 pages, first draft, rough as poo poo.

I was going to give it a read through but the topic didn't interest me (Jesus comes back to modern day New Orleans) and I wouldn't have been much help rating the idea.

Hollis posted:

I finished a rough draft of a screenplay several weeks ago, and would be really interested in getting a nonbiased opinion on the flow of the story as well as plot points. Anyway my email is hollismason at gmail.com

This is a rough draft and the very first screenplay I have ever written. I took a while off before going back to it so that I could look at it fresh pick it apart and make changes. I've had some friends read it and they seem to like it but that isn't a unbiased opinion.

edit:

Oh I should add this is a uncorrected draft meaning I wrote this thing and then walked away from it for awhile. I am just wondering if I should bother going back and bothering. I wrote the screenplay in about 4 days, I dunno how either. I regularly write sketches but once I started writing it it was just done. I didn't plot anything out, or anything like that I just wrote the drat thing.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Sep 17, 2011

# ¿ Sep 17, 2011 05:20

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Magic Hate Ball posted:

I'm really lame and don't have one at all. Part of it has to do with the fact that I don't have my own computer but even if I did I'd be loving off most of the time. I know a lot of people just hand-write but I write like half as fast as I think which is really frustrating. Every writer, though, has a different technique. The one I've heard most often is to set down an hour or two or three every day and do nothing but write, or try to write with no distractions (though the internet makes that really hard because your brain can find any tiny reason to look something up "for the script" and then ten minutes later you're giggling at macros on imgur).

Get a netbook.

I have one. It's powerful enough to run Final Draft with no issue (along with everything else) and I have to leave the wifi off to keep my battery life up high (in the 6-7 hour range). With no internet, I'm stuck either writing, reading screenplays, playing old adventure games or watching Spaced (the only video I have on the hard drive).

I put some headphones on, set my music player to random and sit. Eventually the ideas and words come out.

Granted, that doesn't help when I'm in a bad mood but it does help me stay focused on the good days.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2011 05:52

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Magic Hate Ball posted:

If I could afford one I'd own one.

Save your pennies and sell all of your poo poo

I had to say goodbye to my Kindle, a numbered/signed music poster/CD set and my OOP copy of The Third Man on Blu-Ray to get mine. It was worth it.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Sep 17, 2011

# ¿ Sep 17, 2011 06:01

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Three quick questions.

1) (screaming at the top of her lungs) - too many words or ok? I wanted to get beyond just (screaming).

2) What do you do for something that comes after the credits. Can you do a NOTE: after the FADE OUT? Actually call for the credits, set up what happens, and then FADE OUT? I don't want to leave the story open and I think a simple audio cue would be enough to get the point across about what happened.

3) What's the best/right way to print out a screenplay? I already know a laser printer, 20lbs three-hole punched paper, ACCO #5 Brass Fasteners, ACCO #2 Brass Washers but after that it gets a little murky. I've heard that's good enough but I have also heard BLANK three-hole punched card stock on top/bottom for protection, print the title page on the first card stock, name of the script written on the side in permanent marker, DON'T write on the side of the script, etc.

--------

I'm at the 75 page mark and the end is in sight. The rest of the story is planned out in my head and I have to be careful about how I'm going to fit all of that into 45 pages. Exciting times for me

# ¿ Sep 23, 2011 08:57

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Fire Safety Doug posted:

Any cues are basically the writer trying to tell someone else how to do their job. The director and director of photography will most likely regard your camera directions as annoying at best. The actors only need wrylies (additional instructions in brackets) if there's something that isn't immediately obvious from the line itself. And there's generally no point in naming a specific song because a) there's no guarantee they'll spring for the rights, b) it might throw the reader off if they don't know the song and c) again, it's someone else's job to pick the music.

You would be surprised how many produced screenplays call for a specific song. Like I posted a long time ago, two big examples would be Charlie Kaufman - Bang On A Can performing Brian Eno's Music For Airports in the Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind screenplay and Aaron Sorkin - Paul Young's Love Of The Common People in the beginning sequence of The Social Network screenplay.

Of course, they are established names so they are allowed to break rules but it is hard for a new writer to figure out what are set in stone no-nos and what are minor faux pas that can be overlooked.

I have read a good number of screenwriting books and screenplays...it still feels like I'm scrambling in the dark most of the time.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2011 22:24

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

I wish I could help you two but I'm not 100% sure of the answer myself.

------------

Want to get depressed?

quote:

The sale of Des Moines-based author James Erwin�s first screenplay pitch was accomplished via an unusual route: the social news aggregator website Reddit.com. Warner Bros just bought Rome, Sweet Rome after Reddit users voted to elevate his idea to the top of the site�s home page. Madhouse Entertainment told Deadline it spotted the post and contacted Erwin, a two-time Jeopardy! champ, to develop his concept for a quick sale. The idea? Contemporary U.S. Marines by some quirk of fate are transported to Ancient Rome where they are forced to contend with Roman legions. Because the Marines� presence disrupts history�s timeline, they must set things back on course to return home.

http://www.deadline.com/2011/10/wb-looks-to-rome-sweet-rome-pitch-2/

I swear, sometimes I think I should scrap everything I'm working on and type up some stupid poo poo like

Swine Of The Dead posted:

The dead have come back to life but they don't want your brains...they want your bacon! With the world on the brink of oblivion, Chuck Norris and a rapping dog (voiced by Eddie Murphy) try to overcome their differences so they can put the dead back in the ground and the bacon back in your belly.

WITS, SPINKICKS AND THE WORD OF OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST!

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Oct 15, 2011

# ¿ Oct 15, 2011 00:36

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

I finished the first draft of my screenplay yesterday. Ended up at 112 pages.

This thread kept me going so thanks.

# ¿ Nov 3, 2011 23:44

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

MixMasterGriff posted:

Congratulations! I wish I had some kind of wise words or sentiments to give to you, but nothing comes to mind.

I can't remember which screenwriter said this or the exact quote but...

- edit Hey I found it.

quote:

Whenever I hear this question, I remember a few years back when I screened A History of Violence for my scene writing workshop. Josh Olson, the writer of the film, came in for a Q&A, and one particularly eager student presented this: �So I�m done with my screenplay. What do I do now? How do I sell it?�

Olson paused, picking his words carefully. �Your first script?� he asked. The student nodded. And Olson smiled, offering this advice: �Take your script, drive down to Santa Monica, and throw it in the Pacific.�

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Nov 4, 2011

# ¿ Nov 4, 2011 01:52

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

I spent the weekend cleaning up my first draft. I think I have most of the issues worked out. Everything in present tense. Reworked and tightened up some of the dialog,

Anybody want to give it a read and give me feedback? It is 113 pages long.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2011 05:27

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

DivisionPost posted:

For what little it's worth, my advice is to put it in a drawer for a month and work on something else. Give it another look for yourself with fresh eyes, make notes, do your rewrite, and then ask for beta-reads.

It's what I'm comfortable with as long as I'm working on spec; I want to make sure I take my stuff as far as I can on my own before I show it to people. To me, it's a matter of making the best possible first impression, and I've always felt that scripts that looked good to me after I finished, don't look so good after a month. You may disagree (as disingenuous as it may come off); you may already feel that you've taken it as far as can go on your own. That's fine, I just wanted to offer an alternate approach.

I appreciate the advice. I will definitely do that in the future once I feel like I have a handle on this.

About halfway through this script, I decided I would only give it three drafts before moving on to my next script. A second draft where I would try to clean it up as much as I could and a third draft based off of the feedback of anybody from this thread who was willing to give a read. I don't want to be one of those guys who spends years trying to perfect one script. I want to keep trying to improve my skills and maintain forward motion.

I don't think I have taken it as far as I can (-edit I'm sure there are some issues, one I'm semi-sure about is how to format regarding different rooms in one building) but I'm so far in, I can't tell what is a legitimate issue or what is me overanalysing the whole thing. I need a fresh pair of eyes that aren't my own.

Magic Hate Ball posted:

If I can get through 180 pages of rambling drunkenness I can get through whatever the hell this is.

I knew you would

Email sent.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Nov 7, 2011

# ¿ Nov 7, 2011 06:31

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Can somebody recommend me a good book or in-depth article on story structure?

# ¿ Nov 12, 2011 04:47

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Magic Hate Ball posted:

Sporadic, I read your script. It's far from the worst I've read but it does have some major flaws.

One is that it's too long for being so simple. There are only a handful of real "events", and each one gets a big fat long beat. There's just not enough stuff, too little of what happens on-screen is unimportant or aimless, so condense like hell. I can't imagine this script being longer than 80 or 90 minutes in its current state.

You also need to work on your dialogue and identifying your characters. Everyone sounds kind of the same, even with dialects, because they're all saying things basically the same way. They just state things. When people talk they rarely do so directly and they rarely do so in the same way. For example, think of how differently various people in your life might tell you they think you're getting fat, how directly or indirectly they'd do it, the kinds of words they'd use. There's little variation in your character voices and it makes everything really antiseptic. There are suggestions that Katherine could be an interesting, if volatile character but her outbursts come so rarely in between long passages of dry, dry dialogue. In my notepad I have "'liberal fagfest' loooool" written down because it's emblematic of ear-grabbing dialogue and the kind of thing that hints at greater depth and interest in the character that mostly goes ignored.

This kind of goes with the script's length but you've got odd pacing. You don't get to your first major conflict until almost an hour in (page 57), before that it's a long, relatively uneventful descent into whoredom. I can sum up your first hour really quick: Katherine's husband dies. Looking for money, she takes up a job as a hotel maid, but the work is too strenuous. She gets a call from a pimp and reluctantly agrees to work for him. The first couple days are awkward but the cashflow is good. She's a hit with the johns and her pimp decides to double her workload. She doesn't want to, and they get into a fight. That's like five beats and three major actions which is way, way too few.

I like that you're trying to approach the economic struggle and such but you're not really hitting the mark. Katherine's journey is almost entirely solitary - she meets the same two people over and over again (except for the philosophical meth addict and her son, who provide the script's most engaging scenes) - but the effects of the recession are arguably most interesting on a social level. People sometimes go to great lengths to hide the depths of their desperation.

Also, you don't use a lot of contractions, which is okay in descriptions and text but weird in dialogue. Most people wouldn't say, for example, "It is no problem" unless there's emphasis on "no". There's a lot of that in the script. "If you are busy", "It is too hot out here", "I told you I would call you back", etc.

Your post is exactly why I wanted somebody to read my script. It's interesting to see how you interpreted it coming in completely dark.

Note: What's next isn't me shrugging off what you think. Louis C.K said it best in an interview talking about helping friends edit TV shows/movies, where they give a massive :words:

response to his suggestion to do something different because he didn't get it. "Well, as long as you are sitting next to every viewer, giving that explanation, then go ahead and cut it that way".

You are right there are major flaws if you thought that too much of what was in it was aimless or pointless. Everything had a point. I must have failed to convey them. (Admittedly some of it is a point that only a person like SuperMechaGodzilla would pick up)

I'm pretty surprised you thought there was only 80-90 minutes of content. I actually started panicking near the end (to the point where I think I hurt the ending by wrapping it up so quickly [although I always wanted her to kill him right out of the blue as he was talking]) because I thought even though I was under the 120 mark, that it would take 120 minutes or more to portray everything I had written. The bad thing of writing a sentence or two which tells you everything but if acted out would have to be given more time to hit the mark.

The pacing issue can directly be traced back to way I worked. Besides, what I thought would be, the bare-bones of the first third of the story drawn out on my white board, I came up with it on the fly.

Some of it was intentional.

From the email I sent you with the script "Bonus points if you can name the movie that gave me the seed idea to write this (although I only watched a piece of it on TCM while flipping channels at three in the morning)". That movie was Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles. When I watched part of it, I thought it was an extremely fascinating idea. Fascinating but tedious.

I tried to take the same ideas (well, what I got out of it) and remove the tedium (which I found out later, when trying to find the name of the movie, that the tedium was the whole point but...). Repetition for the character but not for the audience.

Same with Katherine. The first thing we see is her receiving the news that her husband died. She tries to put up a front and soldier on until the housekeeping job. The job grinds her down to nothing. I wanted her to be cold and distant. To bottle everything up until she explodes (at the most minor thing, the potatoes in her frozen dinner still being frozen). After the first time, she only explodes when pushed by other characters. She shows signs of life after she lets that emotion out after her first sex job but the game quickly snuffs it out.

That was the main thing I was interested in exploring. Not economic struggle or the effects of the recession but dehumanization, being that distant, and the power games we play. Only time I thought about modern times was when she was looking for a job and when Jamal wanted her to work more for less or not work at all when she was hurt.

I'm glad you dug the Drunk Man scenes. Those were my favorite to write and they felt like magic when they appeared out of nowhere while I was writing. The son, on the other hand, I hated him and his final scene was basically me going "oh poo poo, I forgot about the son...how can I wrap that up as quickly as possible and keep him out"

You have no idea how close I was to dropping the whole "liberal fagfest" part of her outburst for the second draft. It comes out of nowhere but I figured that alot of older people have that conservative craziness boiling under the surface and what would be the worst thing she could say to her son going to back to college.

You are dead on with the contractions in dialogue. When I read back the first two, I realized that I was abbreviating them in my head as I was reading. The third one though is Jamal leaving a message on her machine. When I wrote it, I was picturing him seething inside but keeping control as he left the message. That was another big problem I had. Trying to figure out whether I needed to clarify the emotion of the speech and when to add (beat) and things of that nature to a section of dialouge.

I don't know what I can do to fix the dialogue and differ the characters more than I did. There aren't alot of characters (which I did on purpose in case I did want to try my hand at shooting this in the future) and the majority of them seem like they would be blunt. Some are cold, some are upbeat, and Drunk Man + the Dealer are almost cartoony, in a scary way.

-----

While writing this post, I thought of a way to make the story more traditional but I would have to scrap a giant chunk of what I have and abandon a good majority of what I was going for. I don't know if I want to invest any more into this. I was really looking forward to moving onto my next script (a comedy, completely plotted out in advance, with a ten week time limit).

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Nov 16, 2011

# ¿ Nov 16, 2011 04:43

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

York_M_Chan posted:

Any tips for writing with a partner? I have never done this before and it feels like a first date even though we are good friends.

I've never done it but there is a good section in Thomas Lennon & Robert Ben Garant's book talking about writing with a partner.

quote:

ADVICE FOR WRITING WITH A PARTNER

We�ve been writing together for twenty years. We used to do it the hard way. Now we do it the fun and easy way. We would like to impart this fun and easy way to you. It took us a decade to figure it out. You will learn it by the end of these few pages. The key to writing with a partner is: use the fact that there are two of you as an asset, not a hindrance. Some writing partners write together in the same room, taking turns who types while the other one paces or sits, quill in mouth, gazing dreamily out the window as the mist rises on the moor.

This is crazy. Nothing is worse than typing with someone looking over your shoulder. Nothing.

Plus, you know that little voice in your head that judges everything you write as you write it, that says, �That�s wrong,� �That should be a �then� instead of an �and,��That should be in italics,��Wait, no, it shouldn�t.� When you both write in the same room, you have TWO of those little voices in the room instead of one. Instead of writing twice as fast, you�re writing twice as slow. So�how do you write twice as fast? Easy.

First, write an outline of your movie. Figure out the entire movie, and write it out in an in-depth outline. This you need to do together. We usually write our outlines in a bar so we can drink beer and look at girls. That takes the edge off�and you�ll be shocked to find how many jokes are lurking in the bottom of your third or fourth beer. Then, when the outline is done, split it up into little sections. Usually a page or so of an outline will end up being between seven and ten pages of script. Split your outline up into page or so sized sections. Make sure that the sections have natural, logical ins and outs. (Don�t split a love scene or an action sequence in half, for example.) When your outline is divided into twenty or so sections, flip a coin; one of you does the ODD sections, the other does the EVEN sections. Then go to your separate homes (Tom has a writing compound in Barcelona; Ben has a small writing isthmus in the French Marquesas) and write your first section. Then e-mail it to your partner. Then attach their first section to yours. Then read the whole script (parts 1 and 2) and tweak it a little: make it better, faster, funnier. Cut jokes you don�t like, or make them better. Then write your next section, part 3. Attach it. Repeat, polishing parts 1 through 3. Etc., etc., etc.

Soon you will have the whole script written�in half the time it would have taken you to write it alone or working together, looking over each other�s shoulders. Not only that, but by the time you get to the end of your script, you will have done twenty passes of the script, polishing it. Your FIRST draft is really your twentieth. Neat, huh? People ask us, �But don�t you argue when you cut out each other�s jokes?� No. We don�t. If one of us cuts a joke we like, we put it back. If it gets taken out AGAIN, we don�t put it back. It�s that easy. For this to work, you have to follow these four rules:

1. You and your partner must trust each other.
2. You must have the same sense of humor.
3. You must be egoless (fight for something because it�s good, not because YOU wrote it).
4. Don�t be a dick.

Follow these rules and this strategy, and you will write twice as fast as you would without a partner. You�ll BOTH have carpal tunnel syndrome, but you�ll also both have Brazilian supermodels to massage your hands for you on your hovercraft.

Lennon, Thomas; Garant, Robert B (2011-07-05). Writing Movies for Fun and Profit (Kindle Locations 2485-2521). Simon & Schuster, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

- edit I also remember an interview with Jay & Mark Duplass where they talked about one of them doing 90% of the script, getting completely sick of it and lateraling off to the other who would finish/polish it.

Seems like you just have to find the dynamic that works for you and your partner.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Nov 29, 2011

# ¿ Nov 29, 2011 22:29

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Griff M. posted:

Seriously considering writing a remake of "Surf Nazis Must Die" for my first feature length screenplay. I casually know Jason Eisener (Hobo with a Shotgun), so if I could get him to do it, I feel like Lloyd wouldn't be too protective of the licence. Who knows.

Thoughts?

It depends.

If you know him well enough where you can causally bring up the idea of a remake in a normal conversation and, if he responses positively, later approach him with the idea you can write the screenplay, give it a try.

If by casual, you mean barely know him, I would avoid it. Presenting a finished product would be awkward. The best case scenario he feels guilty and takes it. Worse case scenario he thinks you are trying to use him or dictate the direction of his career, he refuses to take/read it and you lose whatever bit of friendship you had.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2011 00:26

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Quick question, regarding a building with multiple rooms and characters moving about, would I be better off going with an individual scene heading

quote:

INT. HOUSE, BEDROOM - NIGHT

INT. HOUSE, KITCHEN - CONTINUOUS

or using sluglines?

quote:

INT. HOUSE - NIGHT

BEDROOM

KITCHEN

It's just a style choice, right? Sluglines seem like they get the point across quicker without pulling the reader out of the story.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Dec 11, 2011

# ¿ Dec 10, 2011 22:01

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Death By The Blues posted:

Hey! Somewhat new to these forums and if anyone is around and still wanting some feedback I can give a look and try my best to send feedback as quick as possible.

Credentials include working as a script reader for a couple of months; tis not as fun as it sounds.

Also me and a friend are stuck in a wall trying to work on the latest draft of a pilot we have been hammering away at for 4 years, if anyone wants to take a look

Four years?

I'll read it if you want - send it to *removed, email received

* (and please don't quote this part so I can remove it after you send it)

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jan 16, 2012

# ¿ Jan 15, 2012 19:31

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 05:31

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Death By The Blues posted:

I should clarify; 4 years on and off.

That's what I figured (although I was secretly hoping for something like that guy from Dreams On Spec where he hit the keys every single day for two years, doing endless revisions to his script)

My thoughts:

- Amp up the absurd parts and tone down what are suppose to be the normal parts.

The beginning starts with an absurd joke but you don't push it and it comes off as a one-trick pony. Any good alt-comedy is about keeping the viewer on their toes.

When I read it, the first thing I thought of was the suit being ripped off but having it reveal urban clothes for the character to do a small Do The Right Thing type dance before ripping those clothes off to reveal an old school NBA, Larry Bird, short-shorts outfit for the dunks where he could be reciting chunks of dialogue with each dunk.

Zach and Evan are suppose to be ruining Farideh's writing with this insane filming/interception of her script but that doesn't come across since the film is titled "Dunking Through History" and there is no dialog after the initial opening. It would be much funnier to have a pretentious arthouse sounding title and the various dunks being their misguided attempt to punch up her dialogue.

- Dumb down the vocabulary used in the beginning. Reading it was like trying to walk through knee high mud. There is a way to parody pretentiousness without walking right to the line.

You brought up Spaced in your email which is almost the perfect example. Think of the third episode with Vulva.

quote:

Vulva: Brian are you still painting?

Brian: Not exclusively. I've moved into multimedia pastures. Installations, a platter of organic processes mixed with a pinch of irony and a side helping of self-deprecation.

That sounds pretentious without actually having to name drop a bunch of obscure artists or use a handful of million dollar words. Spaced is actually really good at that type of thing. They have a ton of references but they are never obscure. The references are always skimmed straight from the top of pop culture.

- Add character descriptions. I'm sure that you have a clear vision of who the characters are suppose to be but for somebody like me, who is coming in cold, I can only guess who they are suppose to be from their actions (which are shaky foundation wise, Farideh goes from being taken advantage of/made fun of by others in the first 10 pages to mastermind puppet master in the last 12)

- Follow through on jokes. Farideh is ironing, Evan makes a comment about her ethnicity, Farideh calls him racist, it is revealed that she is ironing a persian rug and...nothing. It isn't brought up by the other characters and is promptly forgotten about.

- Be careful about items magically appearing. The leather satchel is the biggest offender. It comes out of nowhere.

- Hammerstein is a tool so it makes sense that he says douche chill things like "when you are being hit on by the hammer, odds are you are going to be nailed" and "you're about to be smacked down by the hammer". It doesn't make sense for the pretentious kid to sarcastically tell them that their movie is a slam dunk and the pilot to say sorry I had to steal Tessa away. Try to tone that type of thing down.

- You have to do something with the Tessa/Evan subplot because it isn't engaging at all. It may actually be better to push most of that off onto its own episode.

Think of the latest two part episode of It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia. In the first part, it is mentioned that Smitty always swoops up at the end of the party, grabs the drunkest girl and bangs her. In the second part, the Waitress comes out drunk, says she'll bang the first person who speaks to her, Charlie gets all excited thinking it is finally his chance...and Smitty swoops in and steals her away. That type of ending works because they have been building the "Charlie loves the Waitress" subplot for seasons.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jan 16, 2012

# ¿ Jan 16, 2012 23:00

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > The Screenwriting Thread: Without Us You Would Be Staring at A Blank Screen

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