|
 Welcome to the Magic: the Gathering Limited thread! This thread is for learning how to play the Limited formats, discussing them to death, and bitching about the guy who cracked two planeswalkers in his pool. If you want to talk about constructed play, storylines, upcoming sets or the game in general, please use the Magic megathread.  I know what Magic is, but what's Limited?Limited is when you have to build your deck on the spot from limited resources instead of assembling your deck ahead of time! Booster packs are ripped open, you add all the basic lands you need, and you can take home everything you get, win or lose (unless you're at an unsanctioned event doing rare redrafting). There are two common ways of playing limited: Sealed is straightforward. You get six packs of cards. Build the best 40-card deck you can with what you get. Sealed tends to be a slow format, where card advantage and bombs rule the day. Draft is more complex and more popular. Having eight players is recommended for drafting, and only three packs per person are required. Everyone sits around a table, opens a pack, takes one card from it and passes the rest to their left. The cards are picked and passed until they're all gone. Then the second pack is opened and selected from, this time passing to the right, and the third pack is passed to the left again. Take all the cards you pulled and build a 40-card deck with it. Booster packs from a block have traditionally been drafted in the order the sets were released, but Wizards of the Coast changed this with the release of Mirrodin Besieged. Currently, the most recently released packs are opened first.  What's the appeal?Simply, Limited is a blast! It forces you to stretch your deck-building muscles and card-evaluation skills every time you play. You get tons of variety, seeing new decks and playing with all kinds of cards that never make the cut in constructed. Every new set released creates a whole new format to master. While you have to pay for the booster packs every time you play in a Limited event, drafting for a night isn't much more expensive than a movie ticket, which is a much easier investment cost to swallow than the price of most competitive constructed decks. Plus, there's always the chance you'll open a chase rare and have the draft "pay for itself."  Sounds cool, where can I do it?If you want to play in person, you should check out your local game shops and ask about their Magic events. If a store runs a Friday Night Magic event, it'll almost certainly be either Standard constructed or a draft. In gamer-saturated areas, they may also hold drafts on other nights of the week. Ask around, or use Wizards of the Coast's Store and Event Locator. If you want to draft at 5:30 on a Tuesday morning, though, you need Magic: the Gathering Online. The client is free, but registering an account costs $9.99, which is partially compensated by the booster pack and two event tickets they throw in. You'll still have to pay real money to buy the event tickets and virtual boosters for drafting or sealed, but the flexibility of MTGO is great. Play any time, against different skill levels of opponent (see 8-4, 4-3-2-2, and Swiss queues in the glossary), and without having to deal with any troglodytes from the local shop. Get good enough and you can live the dream of "going infinite" and paying for all your drafts with past winnings! Or blow a poo poo ton of money trying. The MTGO client isn't the most user-friendly thing in the world, but there's a lot of helpful advice for starting out with the program at the aptly named MTGO academy.  Real money for fake cards? Are there cheaper ways to do this?Yes, though they all require some work on your part. You'll need an unofficial Magic client. The top candidates are Cockatrice and Magic Workstation. Apprentice also used to be popular, but the main site using it caught the attention of WotC's legal team, and now it's harder to get a current version. You can try the open source Apprentice 2.0. All of these programs only simulate the tabletop and cards, not the rules of the game, so you have to fill that part in yourself. Once you have a Magic client working, you can feed it deck information. Magic Workstation has its own sealed pool generator, or you can use an online pool generator like BoosterMe! or the CCG Decks one. Plug it into your client, find someone else to do the same thing, then connect and play with them. Getting the full draft experience is trickier. Netdraft is downloadable software designed specifically for online drafting, though you may have to do some hunting around to get it current. You can settle for drafting against bots at Le Bestiaire Magic Draft or TCG Player and then pitting the deck against someone else who did the same thing, or you can try to get a draft with people going at CCG Decks. If you're really hard up for people to play with, you could also try sealed against an AI with MTG Forge. I've never tried it, so give it a shot and post about how it is.  I want to draft for free, but with my friends!The best solution to drafting Magic on the cheap with your friends is to put together your own set of cards for limited. This is called Cube drafting for obscure reasons, and it can be pretty awesome. Throw together 360+ of the coolest Magic cards you have, shuffle it up, deal out 15-card "packs" and draft! Some people go all out with Power Nine, but you can put together any kind of Cube you want. All-common "pauper" (or common and uncommon "peasant") Cubes, tribal Cubes, reject rare Cubes, multicolor-themed Cubes with a blend of Invasion, Ravnica and Alara blocks - go nuts and play how you want. The catch is that putting together a Cube that stays fun to draft requires some serious effort, starting with the act of shuffling all those cards! You need to balance the colors, but also think about how much multicolor support and manafixing you want, how many Wrath effects to put in, and whether the Cube offers support for aggro and control strategies or just mid-range. Get feedback from the people you're playing with and adjust the Cube as you need to. If you don't even know where to start, lots of people have posted their Cubes online, so look around and modify a list to your satisfaction. If putting in all the work necessary to build and maintain a Cube isn't your thing, you can also give Rotisserie drafting a shot. The "typical" way to do this is to lay out one of every card from a single set (preferably a large one), randomly determine the draft order, and then have each person take a card in turn until reversing order at the last person, who gets two picks in a row. Repeat until the entire set is drafted. WotC demonstrates a Lorwyn Rotisserie draft here. Assembling an entire set can be a big deal, but the information awareness of this method is really cool and makes for some highly strategic drafting. You can also draft this way online without the cards by sharing a Google Documents spreadsheet, then playing your games through Magic Workstation. The ease of this method allows for Vintage Rotisserie drafts, concepted by Chris Pikula, where the set is every Magic card ever printed. Of course, WotC had the resources to do a live one. If you've got a drafting itch to scratch and only one friend to do it with, you can do a Winston draft! Described here by Aaron Forsythe, it's the best way I've found so far to draft with two people. Solomon drafting and two-person Rochester drafting are also possible and fun, but they have a much greater emphasis on elaborate strategic hatedrafting because of how much information is available. Any of these two-player drafting techniques work just as well with a Cube or booster packs.  I tried drafting, and this poo poo is hard!Yes, it is. That's why there's tons of strategy discussion for you to read online. The Limited Information column on the WotC website is a good place to start. Channel Fireball doesn't have a great reputation as a retailer, but it has good articles by pro players. Alongside its infamously overpriced online store, Star City Games offers a slew of articles, many of which are about limited, and all of which are available for free a few weeks after posting despite their intimidating wall of "Premium" content. Besides just reading about it, you can also watch other people's recorded drafts with their commentary! Channel Fireball is the top of the heap in this department, with pros kicking rear end in 8-4s and giving a lot of insight into their smart choices. Or at least insight into their bad choices. There are plenty of other people recording draft videos, but there's a sharp dropoff in quality, from the good work at MTGO Academy (by the guys who do the Limited Resources podcast) to the okay stuff at Draftmagic.com to the garbage at MTGO Videos that you should only learn from as a case in point. But hey, you're here to talk about Magic! So post your drafts and sealed pools for us to talk about and critique! Raredraft.com lets you easily upload your MTGO drafts so we can see them. Just a screenshot of your sealed pool and deck will do. Vanilla Bison fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jun 16, 2012 |
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 06:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 12:31 |
|
|
 Goons Playing LimitedImaduck's Youtube channel, with draft and sealed videos. rinkski's twitch.tv channel, streams and saved videos of draft and sealed.  Glossary2 for 1: A play that trades 1 card for 2 of the other player's. Card advantage is a good thing. 4-3-2-2: A single elimination queue on MTGO that pays 4 packs to the winner, 3 packs to second place, and 2 packs to third and fourth place. Its total payout is 1 pack less than the other MTGO queues, so it doesn't attract the most competitive players. 8-4: A single elimination queue on MTGO that pays 8 packs to the winner, 4 packs to second place, and jack to everyone else. The payout attracts competitive draft players. Archetype: A deck strategy that you try to draft or build your sealed deck towards. Cards that on their own are crap may be much more potent in an archetype with other cards supporting them. Bomb: A card that will win games by itself if it goes unanswered. The most valuable draft picks. BREAD: A general pick order acronym often suggested for new drafters; Bombs, then Removal, then Evasion, then something-or-other, then Dreck. Not very applicable to archetype-driven formats. Cube: A pool of cards used for custom Limited drafts. Cutting: When a player aggressively strips a particular color or archetype in draft from the packs you pass. Done to send signals to other players. Can also refer to a color or archetype "being cut" from the packs you see. DCI: The WotC-run organization that maintains competitive Magic by sanctioning events, certifying judges and performing other miscellaneous functions. The name used to be an acronym for Duelists' Convocation International, but no longer officially stands for anything. Fixing: Manafixing. Cards that provide mana of any color or allow you to get lands of your choice from your deck. More important in some formats than others, but always helpful when running three or more colors. Forcing: As in forcing a color or archetype. Rigorously pursuing a particular draft strategy, often by passing over cards that are stronger in a vacuum. Best done early in the draft to send consistent signals. Hating, or Hatedrafting: Taking a card in draft just because you don't want other decks to have access to it. MODO: Magic: the Gathering Online. An old acronym from when it was called "Magic Online with Digital Objects." MTGO: Magic: the Gathering Online. Queue: An online pod. Named because you wait for it to fill up before it starts. On MTGO, they come in 8-4, 4-3-2 and Swiss varieties. p#p#: In order, refers to pack number, and then pick number from that pack. A shorthand for discussing draft decisions. Pod: As in draft pod. The group of people participating in the same draft. Pool: As in sealed pool. The set of cards that a sealed player gets to build their deck with. Pseudo-Removal: Cards that kind of sort of deal with your opponent's cards, in certain situations. Creature pump and counterspells fall into this category. Much worse than being able to unconditionally remove something from the battlefield, but better than nothing. PTQ: Pro Tour Qualifier. A tournament you compete in to earn a spot on the Pro Tour. Raredrafting: Drafting a rare you won't play in your deck because of its monetary value. Rare Redrafting, or Backdrafting: When in lieu of prizes, the rares are laid out and "drafted" at the end of an event, with the winner getting first pick. DCI rules say you can never be forced to do this at sanctioned events, not least because it creates a huge incentive for anyone who opened money rares to immediately leave with their cards in hand, but venues may have a standing gentlemen's agreement to redraft rares. Removal: Cards that deal with the important cards your opponent has played. Generally means creature removal, but also artifact removal in the artifact-heavy SoM limited. Rochester: An outdated draft format where every player takes picks in order from the same pack before moving on to the next. Described here. Signals: Communication in drafts through your pick choices. Generally used to push the player you're passing to into colors or archetypes you're not drafting, so that they'll in turn pass the cards you want on to you. Reading and sending signals effectively is an advanced but important skill. Solomon: A type of two-player drafting where players take turns dividing eight card "packs" into two piles for the other to choose from. Described here. Swiss (queue): A non-elimination queue on MTGO that pays 1 pack for every match win. Good for players just starting out, because it gives you three matches to play with your deck. Swiss (tournament): A system for pairing up tournament participants that pits people with similar win-loss ratios against each other. Used in pretty much all Magic tournaments. Read more on Wikipedia. Tabling: A card tables in a draft when you pass on it and it comes back to you after everyone else has taken their picks from that pack. Tempo: Advantage of options and resource efficiency over an opponent; controlling the pace of the game to make your plays superior. That's a very rough description of a sophisticated concept, so read more on Wikipedia. Tiebreakers: When people are playing a Swiss tournament and two people end up with the same win-loss record, the tiebreaker system determines who officially wins. Read how it's done from Wizards. Winston: A type of two-player drafting that limits the information each player sees. Described here. WotC: Wizards of the Coast. The company that makes Magic. Vanilla Bison fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jun 16, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 06:35
|
|
|
I think Auriok Sunchaser is a good card. I had three of them in my w/artifact Metalcraft deck along with snapsail gliders. and sunblast angel. and myr battlesphere. i guess it didn't matter what i got because the Magic God declared me the victor.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 06:48
|
|
|
Regarding the Conley Woods horror draft: my favourite bit was when he passed the good blue flyer after saying it's the best card in the pack, and then it loving tables and he's just "huh". It's like he had an aversion to picking decent cards or something.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 07:13
|
|
|
My favorite part of the Conley draft: P1P2: Better take Dross Hopper over Sky-Eel School! I'M COMMITTED TO B/R AGGRO *has a skinrender and absolutely nothing else* THAT poo poo WILL NOT TABLE P1P6: Hmmm... Ferrovore would be great in this stupid archetype I'm forcing... but I bet you it'll table! *takes Myrsmith?????* HEY GUYS DID YOU KNOW I WROTE AN ARTICLE ABOUT B/R AGGRO???? ARTICLEARTICLEARTICLEARTICLE Pffft I'm not forcing the archetype at all! *takes Oxidda Daredevil P2P2* EDIT: Also I think it was... David Ochoa, he was doing a scars draft, and said "I don't like metalcraft cards that don't do anything on their own, so I'm not taking Auriok Sunchaser" *Takes 2 Rusted Relics really highly* I'm not saying that Rusted Relic isn't better than Sunchaser, but I don't like his reasoning. ChewyLSB fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Oct 30, 2010 |
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 07:38
|
|
|
ChewyLSB posted:Also I think it was... David Ochoa, he was doing a scars draft, and said "I don't like metalcraft cards that don't do anything on their own, so I'm not taking Auriok Sunchaser" *Takes 2 Rusted Relics really highly* I'm not saying that Rusted Relic isn't better than Sunchaser, but I don't like his reasoning. I don't think of metalcraft artifacts and metalcraft non-artifacts as being the same thing. After all, "If you control two other artifacts" is a hell of a lot better than "if you control three other artifacts."
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 08:10
|
|
|
GottaPayDaTrollToll posted:I don't think of metalcraft artifacts and metalcraft non-artifacts as being the same thing. After all, "If you control two other artifacts" is a hell of a lot better than "if you control three other artifacts." This, also getting the second rusted relic is scientifically 78% better than sticking with one rusted relic.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 08:14
|
|
|
I sure am pro limited therad. Some additions to OP: Not all places let you keep the cards you draft. They go into a pool and the winner gets first dips. https://www.mtgoacademy.com hosts a podcast named Limited Resources, which is REALLY great for players at all levels. They do crack-a-pack, and go into depts with why they would first pick some given card. They also do some videos where they are good at explaining their choices.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 09:18
|
|
|
Da Monk posted:I sure am pro limited therad. Some additions to OP: Updated. I forgot to mention rare redrafting because it makes me rage so GODDAMN much.  For anyone who hasn't watched it, Luis Scott-Vargas' Lorthos draft is a must-see. ZEN-ZEN-WWK may be a fast format, but it apparently isn't fast enough to stop an 8-drop octopus from kicking rear end.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 10:02
|
|
|
ChewyLSB posted:Also I think it was... David Ochoa, he was doing a scars draft, and said "I don't like metalcraft cards that don't do anything on their own, so I'm not taking Auriok Sunchaser" *Takes 2 Rusted Relics really highly* I'm not saying that Rusted Relic isn't better than Sunchaser, but I don't like his reasoning. Utter-Leyton said that about Auriok Sunchaser. The best part is he instead took a Nihil Spellbomb in the same pack, which actually doesn't do anything except let you play pseudo-39 card deck outside of Metalcraft.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 10:06
|
|
|
http://www.raredraft.com/watch?d=1jvku This is me trying to draft SOM for the second time ever. It was somewhat hilarious. I felt stupid for not going infect but ended up going 1-1, and if not for a play mistake might have actually made the $$$$.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 10:10
|
|
|
wish me luck I'm driving to Indy to hopefully open a pool that has some removal in it! Maybe even some really broken poo poo like creatures in the same color as those removal spells.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 11:40
|
|
|
Vanilla Bison posted:Updated. I forgot to mention rare redrafting because it makes me rage so GODDAMN much. I'll just mention that our local drafts redraft rares pretty much all the time, and no one has ever even suggested that we'd switch to some other system. I'm perfectly happy with it. Whatever works for your local playgroup, I guess. Also, I've definitely played in sanctioned drafts with rare redraft.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 12:18
|
|
|
Lunael posted:I'll just mention that our local drafts redraft rares pretty much all the time, and no one has ever even suggested that we'd switch to some other system. I'm perfectly happy with it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 12:28
|
|
|
Lunael posted:I'll just mention that our local drafts redraft rares pretty much all the time, and no one has ever even suggested that we'd switch to some other system. I'm perfectly happy with it. If everyone's happy with it, then it's obviously fine. I just think it creates a huge honesty problem when someone who knows they're not a great player or is drafting poorly opens a foil Koth in the third pack. Lunael posted:Also, I've definitely played in sanctioned drafts with rare redraft. To clarify: players can do a voluntary rare redraft at the end of a sanctioned event. But to quote someone quoting a Wizards customer service rep, "organizers cannot force players to do this or restrict them from entering an event if they are not willing to do this." So it can't be anything more than a toothless gentlemen's agreement, and if the organizers tried to push it, the sanctioning could be revoked.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 12:37
|
|
|
http://www.raredraft.com/watch?d=1lkj8 Here's my second lovely SOM draft, this time in 4-3-2-2 (yeah I know, but Swiss just takes so loving long). I manage to reach the finals where I lose to a ridiculously good poison deck.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 13:35
|
|
|
Five 8-4 Scars drafts in MTGO so far, four GB Infects, and all of them have felt pretty decent decks. Getting a bit bored of the deck though to be honest. (still, only one final with those with the fifth currently at round 2)
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 15:09
|
|
|
http://limitedmtgo.wordpress.com/ updates with links to a half dozen new MTGO draft/sealed games a day. The quality of each player can vary widely.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 16:15
|
|
|
Here's the draft: http://www.raredraft.com/watch?d=1kqfz Was really lost in late pack 1.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 16:34
|
|
|
netcat posted:http://www.raredraft.com/watch?d=1lkj8 Here's my second lovely SOM draft, this time in 4-3-2-2 (yeah I know, but Swiss just takes so loving long). I manage to reach the finals where I lose to a ridiculously good poison deck. I'm not gonna comment the whole draft, but I would always choose arc trail over galvanic blast. There are so many 1 toughness creatures that you can often make a 2 for 1.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 16:58
|
|
|
Yeah, Galvanic Blast is as nuts as removal goes in this format. The creatures are weak and most of the time you will get to value with that card. wodin, netcat, I'll comment your drafts straight to raredraft.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 17:00
|
|
|
Lunael posted:Yeah, Galvanic Blast is as nuts as removal goes in this format. The creatures are weak and most of the time you will get to value with that card.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 17:40
|
|
|
Da Monk posted:I assume you meant arc trail. Yeah, brainfart there. Arc Trail.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 18:01
|
|
|
netcat posted:http://www.raredraft.com/watch?d=1lkj8 Here's my second lovely SOM draft, this time in 4-3-2-2 (yeah I know, but Swiss just takes so loving long). I manage to reach the finals where I lose to a ridiculously good poison deck. Realized that there's no actually much point commenting them there when they'd be discussed here anyway. p1p2 Definitely Precursor Golem. Barrage Ogre is good, but nowhere near the same power level the golem potentially is. p1p3 Painsmith is sick in infect, solid in any aggressive deck, and playable more or less everywhere. Safe pick here would be on-colour Myr I think. Early myr are good Barrage Ogre fodder too after they've done their job in ramping. p1p4 I'd definitely pick the Stag and be happy about it. You already have Scrapmelter to exploit. p1p10 If you were thinking BR at this point, 3/2 is unexciting but definitely playable often. p1p13 It's a solid sideboard trick I think, especially against something like poison. p2p2 Arc Trail is better. p2p5 Depends really what you think your deck will look like at this point. Idol is really good in aggressive deck, but Golem will just shut down a lot of opponent attacks with the first strike. p3p4 I think it's a bit too risky, though if you have the right artifact for it the payoff is potentially good. Just too easy to waste two cards on it if your opponent can produce Revoke/Shatter/Replica etc. p3p7 Abuna Acolyte is surprisingly good if you have handful of artifacts, or if you're facing Infect. p3p8 Pretty much when it should go I think.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2010 20:12
|
|
|
So, I just won a SOM Swiss using B/G infect + big green. I didn't record the draft, but here's the basic outline of the deck: Infect Creatures - 2 Plague Stingers - Ichor Rats - Hand of the Praetors - 2 Cystbearer - Tangle Angler - Corpse Cur - Trigon of Infestation - Ichorclaw Myr Big Green Creatures - Bellowing Tanglewurm - Moulder Beast - Acid Web Spider - Ezuri's Brigade (never turned on, but a great blocker anyway) Utility/Removal - Tumble Magnet - Untamed Might - Grasp of Darkness - Slice in Twain - 2 Instill Infection (in sideboard but I always sideboarded them in) - Barbed Battlegear - Sylvok Lifestaff - Two Myr (one G, one B, the black Myr was the card most frequently sided out) I really wanted a Tainted Strike or two but didn't see a single one in pack 3. Moulder Beast was awesome, Barbed Battlegear was so-so, and Trigon of Infestation varied from awesome (if opponent played a mid-range deck) to worthless (if the opponent had a fast deck). Trigon was particularly good against other infect decks. I would have loved to have a little more removal, and I wish I had picked up a Fume Spitter or two. Having the early threat of infect coupled with big blockers and serious late-game threats gave this deck a lot of reach. The early pressure of infect creatures forced opponents to use their removal on them, and then they had nothing left to deal with Moulder Beast and the Brigade. Setec_Astronomy fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Oct 31, 2010 |
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2010 01:29
|
|
|
9-0, 8-0-1 decks at GP Bochum day 1: http://www.planetmtg.de/articles/artikel.html?id=5666 The colours: RW RG BW BWr RW RW BW RWg BRW  Yeah, colour bias.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2010 02:30
|
|
|
Lunael posted:9-0, 8-0-1 decks at GP Bochum day 1: This is sealed, right?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2010 02:57
|
|
|
Setec_Astronomy posted:This is sealed, right? Yeah, it is. Day 2 is draft. But seriously, not a single Island in any of the unbeaten decks.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2010 03:22
|
|
|
Lunael posted:9-0, 8-0-1 decks at GP Bochum day 1: It's even more dramatic when you look at what black cards the decks that ran swamps were packing. Three of the four seem to be running black just to support Carnifex Demon and Geth, Lord of the Vault. Red and white are definitely ruling the day. I didn't play any M11 sealed, but I heard you could count on most of your opponents playing blue. Did the top 8s of M11 sealed events look like this, with WU instead of RW?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2010 07:01
|
|
|
Let me see if I can give a shot at writing up these Archetype Descriptions. WX Metalcraft Red, Blue, Green, and White all support metalcraft to some degree (even black does, but White is easily the best, so if you're in metalcraft you should probably also be in white to help support it. You basically want to pair white up with some other color, hopefully either Red, Green, or Blue. You're looking for a lot of low cost artifacts, or things that produce artifacts, along with a lot of creatures that are either artifacts or get better with metalcraft. Mana myr are ridicluously important to this deck, and are easily in the second - fourth pick range (even off color). Myrsmith is baller in this deck (getting one past second pick is a huge sign) Key Commons: Chrome Steed, Origin Spellbomb (And the whole spellbomb cycle if you're in that color honestly), Tumble Magnet, Sylvok Replica (And the whole replica cycle, honestly), Glint Hawk Idol Cards that pull you into Green: Sylvok Replica, Carapace Forger Cards that pull you into Red: Galvanic Blast, Shatter, Embersmith Cards that pull you into Blue: Riddlesmith UW Flyers/Evasion Flyers are at a huge premium in Scars of Mirrodin, and really, any sort of flying is really good. This is why Plague Stinger is probably the best common infect guy. Regardless, this archetype takes advantage of that by getting a ton of evasion guys in the best colors for it, blue and white! Similar to the poison deck, things that increase power are really good in this deck, stuff like Trigon of Rage is pretty drat good in this deck (expect this to go fast, though, Infect loves Trigon of Rage). Simple power increasing equipment like Darksteel Axe is really good, too, expect that kinda poo poo to go fast, though, since every deck loves Darksteel Axe. This deck usually has an underlying theme of Metalcraft as well, since you're going to end up with generally enough artifacts to support metalcraft, just probably enough to always have it, but many of your cards (Lumengrid Drake) do benefit from metalcraft, and there are many cards that are metalcraft flyers. Because of this, Mana Myr are still pretty important for this deck (as they are for basically all Scars of Mirrodin decks) Darkslick Drake is probably the best uncommon for this archetype. Key Commons: Lumengrid Drake, Neurok Invisimancer, Sky-Eel School, Kemba's Skyguard, Snapsail Glider ChewyLSB fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Oct 31, 2010 |
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2010 08:07
|
|
|
Lunael posted:Yeah, it is. Day 2 is draft. It's pretty dire, yeah. When I open my Sealed decks, I always start by looking at my blue and green cards, just because I can eliminate them from contention so often. (Next I look at Infect cards, because those get instantly eliminated as well, like 80% or more of the time.) It's funny that the very first Scars Sealed deck I ever played was some insanely powerful Infect build that went 4-0... and that was also my last good Infect deck in Sealed. I tried building Infect one more time, when my pool kinda-sorta supported it, and went 2-2. Infect needs a ton of specific stuff to support it, and if any of it is missing, the deck is just bad. (If you do have everything you need, though, it's probably the best deck.) Ashenai fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Oct 31, 2010 |
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2010 09:30
|
|
|
ChewyLSB posted:Let me see if I can give a shot at writing up these Archetype Descriptions. Updated the list. I edited them a bit but linked to your original description.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2010 10:45
|
|
|
Holy poo poo didn't draft BG Infect (also didn't make final but w/e)! Took p1p1 Grand Architect, Tower of Calamities and Mindslaver during pack 1, and rolled with that idea. http://www.raredraft.com/watch?d=1jzfr Round 2 was bizarre to say the least. Opponent had at least 5 Grasp of Darkness, plus at least single Skinrender and Oxidda Scrapmelter. Definitely felt like an uphill battle. Still, would have taken game 2 if not for Chimeric Mass. Once he had expended the Scrapmelter he had, and I had stalled enough to get the Tower online, it was quite formidable obstacle. Lunsku fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Oct 31, 2010 |
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2010 16:52
|
|
|
My FNM draft this week everyone decided to go SoM/SoM/M11, which I thought was pretty weird but whatever...it worked out for me because it lead to a pretty insane pool. I opened up Koth P1 so that started me off red, and took a darkslick drake p1p2. Blue was solid, red was insane. When the M11 pack was opened I took a bolt p3p1, then my next pack was between an ancient hellkite and another bolt, I took the hellkite and sadly had to pass the bolt. 6 packs later it tabeled, at that point it became blatantly obvious I was the only one at the table playing red. Highlights included: Koth, Trigon of Rage, turn to slag, ember hauler, Scrapmelter, Hellkite, 2 bolts, darkslick drake, foresee, disperse, 2 trinket mages and some other filler. Went 4-0 pretty easily, definetly made my week.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2010 01:09
|
|
|
Vanilla Bison posted:It's even more dramatic when you look at what black cards the decks that ran swamps were packing. Three of the four seem to be running black just to support Carnifex Demon and Geth, Lord of the Vault. Red and white are definitely ruling the day. Gee, it sounds like when some of us said that there was a lot more luck involved in sealed than other formats. This sure seem to back up my argument that given a large pool of players the top decks will be the ones with the good pools.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2010 06:09
|
|
|
Karnegal posted:Gee, it sounds like when some of us said that there was a lot more luck involved in sealed than other formats. This sure seem to back up my argument that given a large pool of players the top decks will be the ones with the good pools. Not that you're wrong, but how is the color mix supporting evidence? Red and white being stronger colors will push people towards red and white consistently across all SoM sealed pools. SoM sealed being dependent on lucking into a pool with plenty of bombs or removal seems like a separate issue.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2010 06:19
|
|
|
Vanilla Bison posted:Not that you're wrong, but how is the color mix supporting evidence? Red and white being stronger colors will push people towards red and white consistently across all SoM sealed pools. SoM sealed being dependent on lucking into a pool with plenty of bombs or removal seems like a separate issue. red and white are the colors with all the removal in this set. Also, if you get a crap red/white pool you're going to have a shittier deck than these. A healthier sealed deck format would show greater variety in the decks, rather than showing that very specific mixtures of cards lead to X-0 decks in the hands of good players. If there are specific mixtures of cards that are basically required to get into the top, then the people who do not open those mixtures of cards are pretty much boned.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2010 07:18
|
|
|
Worth remembering though that just looking at the "unbeaten after nine rounds" out of 1810 pools can be a bit misleading. Sure, to get there you likely need to get passed something good. 7-2 was enough to make day 2 though, and there was 201 players doing that or better. Two players managed to build top 8 finish out of that minimum record. I'm pretty sure that if we had all those decks to look at we'd see similar colour bias, but definitely more "normal" pools too. (of course, rating byes muddle this a bit too, the top pros just need 4-2 to go day 2) quote:A healthier sealed deck format would show greater variety in the decks, rather than showing that very specific mixtures of cards lead to X-0 decks in the hands of good players. If there are specific mixtures of cards that are basically required to get into the top, then the people who do not open those mixtures of cards are pretty much boned. Yeah, this. I think the sealed would be immensely helped if blue were somehow on the same power level as red and white. Lunsku fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Nov 1, 2010 |
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2010 07:41
|
|
|
Sigma-X posted:red and white are the colors with all the removal in this set. Also, if you get a crap red/white pool you're going to have a shittier deck than these. The depth of red and white and the easy availability of artifacts means that the decks in that list still look pretty diverse, rather than being specific mixtures.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2010 07:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 12:31 |
|
|
Karnegal posted:Gee, it sounds like when some of us said that there was a lot more luck involved in sealed than other formats. This sure seem to back up my argument that given a large pool of players the top decks will be the ones with the good pools. That makes no sense. I see you're very invested in your theory that Sealed is about luck, but the strength of certain colors has precisely zero to do with how luck-based a format is. In Torment, black was far more powerful than the other colors (by design,) and that didn't make the format any more (or less) luck-based. In Scars, if you have a strong pool, your best deck is likely to be heavy white-red. If you have a weak pool, your best deck is still likely to be heavy white-red. This certainly isn't great for color variety in Sealed, but it has nothing to do with how luck-based it is.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2010 09:26
|
|