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less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

I wouldn't call myself a "Power User" by any means, but I can easily use 175GB in a month. Sucks because my Shaw package includes 125GB.

Also, oh snap! Shaw 1gbps service.

Watch it have a bandwidth cap of like 300GB.

less than three fucked around with this message at Nov 7, 2010 around 23:02

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less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

bob arctor posted:

They disbanded the team that calls and e-mails when you go over. They are however working on a way to start charging for overages (no idea what those overages will be)

That said whatever happens they'll still be better than telus.

Hmm, yeah. I just saw this.



Which would be silly if they wern't going to start tracking.

Cryptic Edge
Aug 4, 2006

by Y Kant Ozma Post


Still wondering how you people can accept anything less than unlimited when it comes to data. Saturday my new house gets it's FiOS install, giving me 25/25 mbit with no data cap. No static unfortunately without paying another $60+/mo but thats what automatic updaters for DNS records are for. Granted I won't be hosting peoples poo poo on that line, but its good enough for personal services (including email with a mail relay service)

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Ricola-kun, tell me
about pizza cones!


Cryptic Edge posted:

Still wondering how you people can accept anything less than unlimited when it comes to data. Saturday my new house gets it's FiOS install, giving me 25/25 mbit with no data cap. No static unfortunately without paying another $60+/mo but thats what automatic updaters for DNS records are for. Granted I won't be hosting peoples poo poo on that line, but its good enough for personal services (including email with a mail relay service)

What choice do they have?

8ender
Sep 24, 2003

clown is watching you sleep


mediaphage posted:

What choice do they have?

Yeah we don't have a choice anymore. Thats the point of this thread Mr. Fancy broadband.

MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.


Sta...tic IP Address? With Canadian telcos? What a preposterous idea! Next you'll be demanding that they upgrade their equipment in high-density area to provide usable service!

(See Cogeco around McMaster University, crash-bought half a mil in UBR upgrades when someone in IT reporting was going to smash assholes. Dude lived in the same area, paid for a 16mbps service, could only get 2 if he was lucky due to area saturation)

Cryptic Edge
Aug 4, 2006

by Y Kant Ozma Post


MA-Horus posted:

Sta...tic IP Address? With Canadian telcos? What a preposterous idea! Next you'll be demanding that they upgrade their equipment in high-density area to provide usable service!

Your right, I do demand they upgrade the equipment to keep up with the subscriber base. Why? because thats what they do if they don't want people leaving by the hundreds. Around here, I can get FiOS, brighthouse docsis 3, Knology docsis 1 (for dirt cheap), adsl 2+ and even PDSL, or a true fiber circuit from a dozen backbone providers. Setting quotas here would be suicide, and would be pretty much them forcing themselves out of the market.

No one here would consider caps to be reasonable. Not with level3 and Microsoft both having data centers here making the fiber infrastructure to the city terrific. There are 16 data centers I know of here, with more that pop up each year. So yes, I do expect better.

Muslim Wookie
Jul 6, 2005


Cryptic Edge posted:

Your right, I do demand they upgrade the equipment to keep up with the subscriber base. Why? because thats what they do if they don't want people leaving by the hundreds. Around here, I can get FiOS, brighthouse docsis 3, Knology docsis 1 (for dirt cheap), adsl 2+ and even PDSL, or a true fiber circuit from a dozen backbone providers. Setting quotas here would be suicide, and would be pretty much them forcing themselves out of the market.

No one here would consider caps to be reasonable. Not with level3 and Microsoft both having data centers here making the fiber infrastructure to the city terrific. There are 16 data centers I know of here, with more that pop up each year. So yes, I do expect better.

This is so pathetically small minded that I had to laugh. There's constantly threads about the monopolies US companies enjoy all over your nation which lock users into one or two providers if their lucky with nary a DSL provider in sight. Yet here you are scoffing at the same situation in Canada.

Pshaw! No choice you say!! That's patently ridiculous, bootstraps!! BOOTSTRAPS!!!!

Ceyton
Oct 9, 2004

Worth the Price.


marketingman posted:

This is so pathetically small minded that I had to laugh. There's constantly threads about the monopolies US companies enjoy all over your nation which lock users into one or two providers if their lucky with nary a DSL provider in sight. Yet here you are scoffing at the same situation in Canada.

Pshaw! No choice you say!! That's patently ridiculous, bootstraps!! BOOTSTRAPS!!!!

At least the USA has pockets of good service here and there. Show me a place in Canada where I can get a fiber circuit to my house for less than the equivalent of a full-time salary. Or even a 20+ mbps unmetered connection.

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002



Ceyton posted:

At least the USA has pockets of good service here and there. Show me a place in Canada where I can get a fiber circuit to my house for less than the equivalent of a full-time salary. Or even a 20+ mbps unmetered connection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_..._country#Canada

I live about 100km from wightman telecom service area. 20mbps, $39/mo, unmetered. Looks like that's just about the only decent provider in canada though.

Muslim Wookie
Jul 6, 2005


Hey don't get me wrong I'm jealous of some US areas myself but the arrogance of that response just rubbed me the wrong way.

I'm not even Canadian, I'm Aussie AND I work for an ISP so I feel the screwing I get as a customer AND wholesaler.

Crumbletron
Jul 21, 2006

KNÆLE.


Cryptic Edge posted:

Your right, I do demand they upgrade the equipment to keep up with the subscriber base. Why? because thats what they do if they don't want people leaving by the hundreds. Around here, I can get FiOS, brighthouse docsis 3, Knology docsis 1 (for dirt cheap), adsl 2+ and even PDSL, or a true fiber circuit from a dozen backbone providers. Setting quotas here would be suicide, and would be pretty much them forcing themselves out of the market.

No one here would consider caps to be reasonable. Not with level3 and Microsoft both having data centers here making the fiber infrastructure to the city terrific. There are 16 data centers I know of here, with more that pop up each year. So yes, I do expect better.

Haha, christ. How you could string those two paragraphs together and not realize what you're actually saying? You have options because you have all the infrastructure set up. We lack the infrastructure and thus the options. Our telcos are perfectly fine with this and what are you going to do? You either pick one and get hosed or pick the other and get hosed.

Cryptic Edge
Aug 4, 2006

by Y Kant Ozma Post


Parachute Underwear posted:

Haha, christ. How you could string those two paragraphs together and not realize what you're actually saying? You have options because you have all the infrastructure set up. We lack the infrastructure and thus the options. Our telcos are perfectly fine with this and what are you going to do? You either pick one and get hosed or pick the other and get hosed.

Thats why you (as a country) need to start demanding that the ISP's actually setup your social resources to be more in line with a first world country. Australia too, because both of those countries are backwards when it comes to the Internet and make Chinese Internet service look good. At the rate your ISP's are dicking you, we can expect North Korea to have Internet to more homes at a faster rate by the end of 2015.

Edit: where I'm at isn't flawless, but they do make the effort to stay ahead of the times here at least. Go back 8 years before verizon did the FiOS test network here and the infrastructure was nonexistent and it was a shithole technology wise. All it takes is one saying "we can do better for our customers"

Cryptic Edge fucked around with this message at Nov 8, 2010 around 12:02

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

Gotta' nuke something.


Cryptic Edge posted:

Thats why you (as a country) need to start demanding that the ISP's actually setup your social resources to be more in line with a first world country. Australia too, because both of those countries are backwards when it comes to the Internet and make Chinese Internet service look good. At the rate your ISP's are dicking you, we can expect North Korea to have Internet to more homes at a faster rate by the end of 2015.

Edit: where I'm at isn't flawless, but they do make the effort to stay ahead of the times here at least. Go back 8 years before verizon did the FiOS test network here and the infrastructure was nonexistent and it was a shithole technology wise. All it takes is one saying "we can do better for our customers"

You can't demand anything and get results when there's no competition. It's our local ISP's way, or the highway. Even if someone came on the scene and decided to offer broadband access, they'd quickly be bought up by the big boys of they posed any real competition.

Just look at the former independent cell companies that popped up here in Vancouver. Several years ago a glut of smaller cell carriers cropped up in Vancouver, and offered real, affordable competition to the large telcos. And where are they now? All bought up by the big guys, and still operating with their original names so as to trick the consumer into believing they're still the same small carrier that's looking out for the consumer. In reality their plans are only marginally more attractive than the telcos, but again, all profits go to the telcos anyway.

8ender
Sep 24, 2003

clown is watching you sleep


Cryptic Edge posted:

Thats why you (as a country) need to start demanding that the ISP's actually setup your social resources to be more in line with a first world country.

Again, that is the whole point of this thread. We do have good ISPs that want to offer that kind of service but they're being crushed by two competitors that hold all the keys to the infrastructure. Demands have been made by the people and are falling on deaf ears because the government decision makers are all ex-industry executives throwing out high fives to the oligopolists.

For Ontario really the only hope is that either Teksavvy or another independent finds millions of dollars somewhere and starts rolling out infrastructure; or a heavyweight, cash laden competitor comes up from the states, jumps through the legal and regulatory hoops, slaps the CRTC, and sets up shop before Bell can do anything about it.

Muslim Wookie
Jul 6, 2005


Cryptic Edge posted:

Thats why you (as a country) need to start demanding that the ISP's actually setup your social resources to be more in line with a first world country. Australia too, because both of those countries are backwards when it comes to the Internet and make Chinese Internet service look good. At the rate your ISP's are dicking you, we can expect North Korea to have Internet to more homes at a faster rate by the end of 2015.

Edit: where I'm at isn't flawless, but they do make the effort to stay ahead of the times here at least. Go back 8 years before verizon did the FiOS test network here and the infrastructure was nonexistent and it was a shithole technology wise. All it takes is one saying "we can do better for our customers"

Oh, so you agree that communications infrastructure should be publicly owned and run. That's refreshing, it's so rare to speak to an American that isn't all RARRRGH SOCIALISM, CAPITALISM IS THE ONLY TRUE WAY, THE FREE MARKET WILL PROVIDE!!

tropical
Aug 14, 2003
Ahh say whut?

Lt. Jebus posted:

Eastlink out here in Atlantic Canada doesn't track bandwidth use yet, but much like Shaw they state they will start soon, although from the sounds of it their cap of 250GB/Month for their 30 and 100mbps tiers is pretty generous [compared to what most of you have to deal with anyway]. More troubling is that they state they will charge 1$/GB overage with no mention of any cap on total overage fees.

Whats even more generous is that their DOCSIS 1.1 plans (15 and 5mbps) are specifically exempted from any upcoming bandwidth caps. I guess they figure that they only need to go after "power users" which will naturally gravitate towards the higher tiers. It also explains why their 30mpbs plan is so reasonably priced compared to their lower tiered plans.

I could have sworn I read somewhere that Eastlink is going to cap overage fees somewhere in the ballpark of $20, but I can't for the life of me remember where, so I can't provide a source. I could be completely wrong.

I'm still pretty impressed with Eastlink 15 - I regularly get download speeds up to 1.8MB/s and I've had no troubles streaming Netflix in HD/5.1 to my PS3. A friend of mine recently upgraded to Eastlink 30 and said that on average his download speeds are now actually slower :S

Arsten
Feb 18, 2003


marketingman posted:

Oh, so you agree that communications infrastructure should be publicly owned and run. That's refreshing, it's so rare to speak to an American that isn't all RARRRGH SOCIALISM, CAPITALISM IS THE ONLY TRUE WAY, THE FREE MARKET WILL PROVIDE!!

Capitalism isn't the only way. It's just the most dynamic. Like companies, social and communist governments are slow to change with the times. Having a market-oriented structure with diffuse and myriad controls and releases allows for the entire economy to change in a relatively quick time frame.

This breaks down when you have a monopolistic system, however, and that's where socialism has a benefit. Which is why some socialistic institutions are required for any capitalist market, which is what you'll find in the US. As in most things, moderation and vigilance are required at all times.

However, BOTH capitalist and socialist market methodologies break down when you have a corrupt system, like you have there in Canada (I know. We are just as corrupt). This is the main reason I oppose public ownership: the gene pool of the politicians can be easily corrupted by a giant donation to their campaign by whatever company wants an all-but-zero-price contract on the now-public-owned infrastructure.

Let's imagine Canada going to public-owned infrastructure. First, the telcos will get paid for all maintenance performed, which means to make more profit, Bell will go to cheaper quality parts, sold at the original price, which will break down more and get them more money.

Second, without those funds to contribute to campaigns, the little guys will still be shut out. Loop holes in the law will be written that allow the telcos special priveledges, which means they can offer their service at 1/2 the cost of anyone else. They'll never get moved from the current "Evil Monopoly" status.

Third, if you think dealing with Bell is bad, wait until you have to call a beuaracratized call center. If you want to know what I mean, call the IRS down here in the states with any issue. Even to make a payment. You'll jab your eyes out with the nearest pointy object you can find.

And this is a bit pessimistic, but it's all things you already see within the Canadian (and US, truthfully) governments as well as the Canadian huge ISPs. All that'll change is that you'll probably get WORSE internet service (because of #1 up there) while politicians slap themselves on the back for a job well done.

def snow leppard
Sep 12, 2010



I have MTS and it doesn't have any limits. The downside is living in Manitoba.

Captain von Trapp
Jan 22, 2006

I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it.

Arsten posted:

Second, without those funds to contribute to campaigns, the little guys will still be shut out. Loop holes in the law will be written that allow the telcos special priveledges, which means they can offer their service at 1/2 the cost of anyone else. They'll never get moved from the current "Evil Monopoly" status.

You don't have to be Ayn Rand to realize that the unintended consequence of tighter government controls in these contexts is almost always increased dominance by a smaller number of firms via regulatory capture and rent seeking.

As a silly but true example, McDonalds benefits relative to small local eateries from laws requiring nutritional information. Food is very expensive to test for nutritional content, and it has to be re-tested every time the recipe changes or a new item is added. Huge conglomerates can afford it. Little guys can't. So despite the law being intended to reveal just how unhealthy fast food is, consumers don't tend to care that much - and in the meantime small healthy restaurants become just that much harder for their owners to keep open.

Mutatis mutandis, and suddenly you're stuck with one or two terrible broadband choices.

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009

ASK ME ABOUT MY FAST CAR VROOM BROOM


For everyone on shaw: http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/ProductsSe...ternetdatausage

Select Alberta as the province, Edmonton as the city. Edmonton is their test market for this poo poo.

Between this and bill C-32, the digital future looks pretty bleak for canada.

for those who can't see that:

Powershift fucked around with this message at Nov 8, 2010 around 16:01

rscott
Dec 10, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 6 hours!


Reasons your computer may be using more bandwidth:

Haxx0rz!!!!!

Jesus Christ.

Zarkov Cortez
Aug 18, 2007

Alas, our kitten class attack ships were no match for their mighty chairs


MeestarK posted:

You would think with the push of legitimate bandwidth use (Netflix, etc.) that usage fees would have to finally be abolished, but not if Bell has anything to say about it.

The majority of these companies offer their own content services.

I haven't checked in a while to see what the terms of my MTS DSL service are but afaik it's still unlimited.

Grog
Mar 31, 2007

Some things man was not meant to tamper with.


Clank posted:

I have MTS and it doesn't have any limits. The downside is living in Manitoba.
They do have soft "thresholds" in place, but they have yet to enforce any actual limits or overage charges. Hopefully things stay that way.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl


I remember hearing about a city in the US that tried to implement a municipal non-profit ISP, only to get brutally attacked by every nearby private ISP. Have there been any attempts in Canada for towns or cities to start their own internet services, or is the law rigged to forbid it?

Sprawl
Nov 21, 2005


I'm a huge retarded sperglord who can't spell, but Starfleet Dental would still take me and I love them for it!


Ceyton posted:

At least the USA has pockets of good service here and there. Show me a place in Canada where I can get a fiber circuit to my house for less than the equivalent of a full-time salary. Or even a 20+ mbps unmetered connection.

Here in BC telus offers their Optik which is either 19/1 or 25/3 it isn't capped and doesn't have and bandwidth limits.

Zo
Feb 22, 2005

LIKE A FOX


Best part about rogers is that they silently removed the $25 cap for overusage fees. So my bill went from $50 base + $25 overcharge every month (5 people in a college house so yea) to anywhere from $130-$170.

Of course I'm still with rogers because there's no choice, but I live by myself now and pay $80/month for 25mbit, still capped.

Squibbles
Aug 24, 2000

Mwaha ha HA ha!

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

I remember hearing about a city in the US that tried to implement a municipal non-profit ISP, only to get brutally attacked by every nearby private ISP. Have there been any attempts in Canada for towns or cities to start their own internet services, or is the law rigged to forbid it?

My uncle was the mayor of a small town in south-east BC. He said they couldn't convince shaw or telus to run highspeed into the town so they managed to get a grant from the (provincial? federal?) government specifically meant to be used by small towns to get high speed internet. They got everything together to set up town-wide free wireless broadband and then suddenly Shaw decided to run high speed into the town. They held a town meeting or mini-referendum and opted to go ahead with the wireless anyway. So now residents of the town all get free wireless broadband with the option of having cable service installed if they want.

Doesn't sound quite as bad as that town in the US that got sued

frumpsnake
Jan 30, 2001

The sad part is, he wasn't always evil.

Sprawl posted:

Here in BC telus offers their Optik which is either 19/1 or 25/3 it isn't capped and doesn't have and bandwidth limits.

Yeah, and it's about the same price as Shaw's lovely 15/1 (125GB) plan that never gave me speeds over 7Mbps.

Sprawl
Nov 21, 2005


I'm a huge retarded sperglord who can't spell, but Starfleet Dental would still take me and I love them for it!


frumpsnake posted:

Yeah, and it's about the same price as Shaw's lovely 15/1 (125GB) plan that never gave me speeds over 7Mbps.

I've tested my connection many times and i always get my 19/1. But i also use it for their TV service and i am able to record the 2 HD channels and 1 SD channel at the same time.

pienipple
Mar 20, 2009

That's wrong!


I've been sick of Cablevision's poo poo for years. They claim not to have a cap but if you're uploading much at all they throttle your connection down to dial-up speeds. Also the network is oversold and as a result my connection is slow and lovely.

Too far from the CO for DSL, Fios isn't available here yet, so I've been stuck with them for quite a while. I recently switched to a Virgin Mobile MiFi and while it's slower, it doesn't drop my connection constantly except for an hour during peak time in the evening. Daytime and late night it's stable and not that much slower than cable was. I can actually make skype calls without the call dropping every 30-90 seconds now. It's also cheaper at $40/month with unlimited data.

So if your provider is poo poo and you get decent V Mo coverage it's worth a try. If the speeds are too bad you can always return the router and not buy another month.

And it's easy to modify the config file to increase the 5 device limit.

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

Sprawl posted:

Here in BC telus offers their Optik which is either 19/1 or 25/3 it isn't capped and doesn't have and bandwidth limits.

Optikô High Speed
Download/Upload Usage: 100 GB/month
Additional Download/Upload Usage: $2/additional GB used

They're playing the same game as Shaw. Listed limits, but currently not enforced. (And less bandwidth and double the overage rate of Shaw, too.)

Do you honestly think the moment Shaw turns on metering, Telus won't follow suit?

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

frumpsnake posted:

Yeah, and it's about the same price as Shaw's lovely 15/1 (125GB) plan that never gave me speeds over 7Mbps.



Not bad at all for 15/1 service at 4:30pm.

Liberty_MI
Jun 7, 2002

You can protect yourself from Radioactive Fallout... get the facts! From your Civil Defense Director.

I have to laugh that my july bill would go from a typical $48 to $1300 if this was a rogers plan.

yay.

Cryptic Edge
Aug 4, 2006

by Y Kant Ozma Post


Liberty_MI posted:

I have to laugh that my july bill would go from a typical $48 to $1300 if this was a rogers plan.

yay.

Yeah, if I was restricted like the Canadians, I'd be paying probably close to 2k in bandwith bills. For me to queue up a TB to download in a night is common.

Arsten
Feb 18, 2003


Squibbles posted:

Doesn't sound quite as bad as that town in the US that got sued
I only vaguely recall this, but if I remember right, there was a breach of contract, as several towns have setup their own internet connections in several parts of the US. But the one that got sued (It was around Portland, I think.) got sued because they started this project with some company that normally provides internet access, but the company did the bare minimums of what was required and the city decided to break contract without cause.

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

YOSPOS...Shit.
I'm still only in YOSPOS.

Cryptic Edge posted:

Yeah, if I was restricted like the Canadians, I'd be paying probably close to 2k in bandwith bills. For me to queue up a TB to download in a night is common.
I seriously doubt that. For 2 grand you could go buy whatever you were planning on downloading.

Sprawl
Nov 21, 2005


I'm a huge retarded sperglord who can't spell, but Starfleet Dental would still take me and I love them for it!


less than three posted:

Optikô High Speed
Download/Upload Usage: 100 GB/month
Additional Download/Upload Usage: $2/additional GB used

They're playing the same game as Shaw. Listed limits, but currently not enforced. (And less bandwidth and double the overage rate of Shaw, too.)

Do you honestly think the moment Shaw turns on metering, Telus won't follow suit?

Yes it says that but it doesn't track it at all on their web page. No traffic what so ever so it nothing is there you can't be billed for it. Anyways it might be because i have the tv stuff too that they aren't monitoring it.



Its like this for every month. I've easily used 200-300 gigs from downloading stuff from steam the first few months and i haven't heard a thing from them or had an overages billed.

Sprawl fucked around with this message at Nov 9, 2010 around 04:12

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

Sprawl posted:

Yes it says that but it doesn't track it at all on their web page. No traffic what so ever so it nothing is there you can't be billed for it. Anyways it might be because i have the tv stuff too that they aren't monitoring it.

Shaw's not monitoring either, unless you're in Edmonton.

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Aug 15, 2004

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Right now my pet peeve about Shaw, is that once a week like clockwork they mail me (physical mail) a letter saying since I have Internet and Phone I should get TV too.

The offers and incentives vary. I've also noticed that if I'm home on a weekday there's a pretty decent chance I'll get a call trying to sell me on adding digital cable to my account. Nothing against TV but can it really be worth the resources required to send my a weekly letter trying to sell me TV.

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