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Crumbletron
Jul 21, 2006

KNÆLE.


bob arctor posted:

Right now my pet peeve about Shaw, is that once a week like clockwork they mail me (physical mail) a letter saying since I have Internet and Phone I should get TV too.

The offers and incentives vary. I've also noticed that if I'm home on a weekday there's a pretty decent chance I'll get a call trying to sell me on adding digital cable to my account. Nothing against TV but can it really be worth the resources required to send my a weekly letter trying to sell me TV.

Bell sends us a letter every 4 weeks trying to get us to get satellite to go with our internet and home phone.

We already have satellite with them.

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Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




If you pick up, can you ask them to not call you? I had Cogeco trying to sell us phone service to go with our internet and TV. They were pretty persistent, but not really the "once a week" harassment you describe. After the fourth or fifth call I asked if they could please stop calling to sell me a phone because I wasn't going to buy one and it was just pissing off an otherwise happy customer, and I haven't had them call about it since.

Completely anecdotal, of course.

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

bob arctor posted:

Right now my pet peeve about Shaw, is that once a week like clockwork they mail me (physical mail) a letter saying since I have Internet and Phone I should get TV too.

The offers and incentives vary. I've also noticed that if I'm home on a weekday there's a pretty decent chance I'll get a call trying to sell me on adding digital cable to my account. Nothing against TV but can it really be worth the resources required to send my a weekly letter trying to sell me TV.

Yeah, I get the direct mailers too. Add a landline for only $10! Cable $10 for 6 months! Or something.

I asked them to stop sending stuff, but they didn't. It did stop phone calls, so whatever I was happy.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




Oh yeah, the mailers keep on coming. Which is fine because winter is coming and they're great firestarters under kindling in the fireplace. If I could somehow figure out how to get them to send me MORE mailers I could probably cut down on my heating costs

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

Of course this is after they stopped bugging me with "Hey, we know you're not paying for cable, so start or we'll cut it off! wink wink."

I moved into a place and Shaw never disconnected the cable service when the old people left.

I don't own a TV, so I never noticed.

Every month they'd phone/send a postcard and be like

Did you know you're getting cable service and not paying for it!?
No, I don't have a TV
But if you don't start paying for cable, we'll turn it off!
I don't have a TV. I don't need the cable, go ahead.
Seriously, you don't have a TV? We'll give you [discounted rate]
No. I don't want it.

They'd keep doing this once a month to me, where I'd get progressively angrier and explain to them that I still don't own a TV and how am I supposed to know I'm still getting free cable (and you still haven't turned it off) and I don't want it.

They eventually stopped calling, but I'm pretty sure I still have cable, their attitude every time was all " Well you'll buy a TV eventually"

edit: Oh look I saved a photo of one of the "personalised" postcards they were sending me

less than three fucked around with this message at Nov 9, 2010 around 08:13

Coredump
Dec 1, 2002


Hey is this the thread where I can go loving American Telecom companies and cover both countries? (Cananda and the US)

8ender
Sep 24, 2003

clown is watching you sleep


less than three posted:

Yeah, I get the direct mailers too. Add a landline for only $10! Cable $10 for 6 months! Or something.

I asked them to stop sending stuff, but they didn't. It did stop phone calls, so whatever I was happy.

People get really roped into those sort of deals too. I had a friend that was convinced they were paying next to nothing for internet because "Rogers bundles have big discounts". After a few weeks of terrible service they did the math and it turned out that, surprise!, they were paying close to $50 / month even after the bundle discounts for pretty bog standard broadband.

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

8ender posted:

People get really roped into those sort of deals too. I had a friend that was convinced they were paying next to nothing for internet because "Rogers bundles have big discounts". After a few weeks of terrible service they did the math and it turned out that, surprise!, they were paying close to $50 / month even after the bundle discounts for pretty bog standard broadband.

Shaw's bundle pricing is really good actually for Internet and phone. (They don't give you a bundle discount for TV.)

It actually is only $10 to add a residential line, forever. Not just a promotional price.

High Speed Internet is $47.
Residential phone line is $30.95.

If you take both, you get $10 off both the Internet and the phone, making them $37 and $20.95 = $57.95, $10 more than Internet alone.

I only use my cell phone though, and use next to no minutes on it so there's just no reason for me to get a landline, even if it's only $10.

edit: Rogers' comparable Internet and phone services are $67 and $30, so it'd have to be pretty huge bundle discount to be priced anywhere near Shaw.

less than three fucked around with this message at Nov 9, 2010 around 18:57

MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.


less than three posted:


edit: Oh look I saved a photo of one of the "personalised" postcards they were sending me



That is...extraordinarily polite of them. Wow. When I worked as a tech (briefly), I'd be doing field checks. Whoops, filter isn't on here or it's the wrong one. Swap, done. The way people FREAK the gently caress out when this happens is almost hilarious.

WHAT THE gently caress ARE YOU DOING, MY CABLE IS OUT.
No it's not. You're not on billing for it, so it got shut down.

I saw people literally turn purple when I said this. Eyes bugging out and everything.

YOUR COMPANY SUCKS I'M CANCELLING MY SERVICE WITH YOU
Um...you can't cancel something you're not paying for. You're not paying for it. You haven't given us money in over three years.
THIS IS THE WORST SERVICE I'VE EVER HAD

Ugh.

Joink
Jan 8, 2004
insert inspirational text here

bob arctor posted:

Right now my pet peeve about Shaw, is that once a week like clockwork they mail me (physical mail) a letter saying since I have Internet and Phone I should get TV too.

The offers and incentives vary. I've also noticed that if I'm home on a weekday there's a pretty decent chance I'll get a call trying to sell me on adding digital cable to my account. Nothing against TV but can it really be worth the resources required to send my a weekly letter trying to sell me TV.

We had a land line and internet with Shaw for a while, so when they called about getting TV I talked to them for a bit and for $10 we got all the channels including the HD channels. Only thing missing are the movie channels. Pretty happy and totally worth it for me as I love my hockey in HD.

Lukano
Apr 28, 2003



Ceyton posted:

Show me a place in Canada where I can get a fiber circuit to my house for less than the equivalent of a full-time salary. Or even a 20+ mbps unmetered connection.

I'll use my VDSL provider, SaskTel, as an example (again).

25mbit / ~$100 per month, completely unmetered - uncapped - unrestricted. Use as much as you like, it's your line to do with as you will (within the obvious common TOS clauses, of which bandwidth in not one).

Sure it's a bit hefty on the price-tag, and they're incredibly small fish - in a small fish province - but such a beast does exist.

Lukano fucked around with this message at Nov 10, 2010 around 16:51

frumpsnake
Jan 30, 2001

The sad part is, he wasn't always evil.

less than three posted:



Not bad at all for 15/1 service at 4:30pm.

Obviously Shaw is better in your area. Cable is always going to be variable and depend on your area, but Telus Optik is always 100% for me.



less than three posted:

Optikô High Speed
Download/Upload Usage: 100 GB/month
Additional Download/Upload Usage: $2/additional GB used

They're playing the same game as Shaw. Listed limits, but currently not enforced. (And less bandwidth and double the overage rate of Shaw, too.)

Do you honestly think the moment Shaw turns on metering, Telus won't follow suit?
Well gently caress.

But from what I can see, it's $47 for 15Mbps/125GB on Shaw, or $50 for 25Mbps/250GB on Telus.

edit: vvvvvvv I just moved here from Australia, let me have my moment before they actually start counting data and I end up in a worse situation than Australia (where my limit is now apparently 1TB )

frumpsnake fucked around with this message at Nov 10, 2010 around 19:14

kuddles
Jul 16, 2006

Like a fist wrapped in blood...

As someone who just paid a $129 bill for 150 gigs last month off Rogers here in the "technically beautiful" city of Ottawa, you people can shut your loving mouths about your drat unmetered deals.

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

frumpsnake posted:

But from what I can see, it's $47 for 15Mbps/125GB on Shaw, or $50 for 25Mbps/250GB on Telus.

If you compare my quote with the page now, they've increased the bandwidth cap in the past few days in light of all this Shaw news.

THC
Mar 10, 2008


In Delta we have a cable ISP that is totally unlimited, and they offer a 30Mbps package. Unlimited usage is a selling point for these guys so I think it's unlikely they'll start capping. If Telus wants to start metering our poo poo we'll just threaten to switch to DCCNet and I suspect they'll back off.

CadavericSpasm
Nov 5, 2009


Last year when we moved into a new house I signed up with Rogers and traded in an old satellite dish to get a $35 discount for 12 months off of our VIP digital cable package and HD terminal. We 'bundled' that with the Express package of high speed internet for a whopping 5% discount. With the discounts we were paying around $130/month for both services. Be warned! The 'bundle' discounts lock you into a contract-- if you change your service tier or cancel it they charge you the amount of money you saved with the discount. When Rogers capped their overage charges at $25/month we constantly used over 200gb/month (Express maxes out at 60gb, I think it used to be 75gb) and never received phone calls or letters about our bandwidth usage.

When Netflix announced that they were coming to Canada, Rogers increased the overage cap to $50/month and lowered the bandwidth for each tier. I've been eagerly waiting and watching for Netflix to be available in Canada so when it finally was, I cancelled all of our Rogers services and searched for the ISP with the lowest overage charges. We almost went with Bell when we found a flyer for Yak advertising 15mbps service with no cap, no contract, no service fee and home phone with unlimited local calling, 400 long distance minutes and 8 features for $60/month. The flyer and the website said it was only available in Kitchener, Barrie and another city I can't remember, maybe Belleville? We signed up for the service right after we gave Rogers our one month notice. Their customer service is okay, Canadian-based instead of overseas, but the operating hours are more limited.

They really hosed up with installation. I was originally quoted a connection on the 12th, then DSL would be connected on the 15th. We had no phone connection and no field techs came to the door, and no one called. We called and asked and they said they would have to send a tech out to test if we actually had the house wired for phone. A few days later a field tech called and said he had no idea why they sent him out, the wiring was fine. So we called and complained again, and I was told that our scheduled connection date was rescheduled to be done two days earlier than previously scheduled. The rescheduled date comes and passes with no connectivity still. We call and complain and they have no recollection or record of rescheduling the date.

So after complaining enough they tell us that we won't be charged for our first month of service. We also complained because the highest speed we're getting is only 3.5/.5 and they said we were put on 5mpbs service because they're 'working on' bringing 15mpbs into our area. I don't mind too much, as with Rogers' 10mpbs we never got any faster than 5mpbs.

Something really needs to be done about the telecom monopoly. I think Rogers made in excess of $30billion in profits last year alone. My dad has been a field tech with Rogers for +/-10 years and he uses Bell at home because it's cheaper and only contractors get service discounts. Rogers also treats all its non-corporate employees like poo poo so consumers aren't the only ones. I sincerely think if enough consumers and independent ISPs voiced their anger the CRTC could change for the better. Unfortunately Canadians are really good at being apathetic.

ThawedGladiator
Aug 29, 2008


Cryptic Edge posted:

Yeah, if I was restricted like the Canadians, I'd be paying probably close to 2k in bandwith bills. For me to queue up a TB to download in a night is common.

I bow down before the awesomeness of your vast collection of bytes. You must be very proud.

Captain Capacitor
Jan 20, 2008

The code you say?


kuddles posted:

As someone who just paid a $129 bill for 150 gigs last month off Rogers here in the "technically beautiful" city of Ottawa, you people can shut your loving mouths about your drat unmetered deals.

Hey it could be worse. A friend of mine in the Glebe was telling me that the local phone loops are so poorly designed in that area that you could be one street over from a DSL point (forgive me, I can't remember the technical term for it) and still be too far away to get service, or decent service.

From what I'm told, TekSavvy is one of the few companies that will allow you to bond DSL connections. I could be wrong.

Viktor
Nov 12, 2005



Been using Aliant/Bell in eastern Canada for a few years now. Was with Eastlink for a long while under a bundle package (hello $5/year increases every year) pleased with service before a technical issue forced me to switch. Two months of troubleshooting my link before I threw in the towel and moved to Aliant. The service is pretty cheap if you can find a good customer service rep who actually cares to retain customers. Ended up renegotiating a $39/month unbundled package for 13Mbps/1Mbps, Eastlink wouldn't even budge on 15Mbps plan unless you take cable/phone.



Oh well once the caps come time to re-investigate moving services again.

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


Sprawl posted:

Yes it says that but it doesn't track it at all on their web page. No traffic what so ever so it nothing is there you can't be billed for it. Anyways it might be because i have the tv stuff too that they aren't monitoring it.



Its like this for every month. I've easily used 200-300 gigs from downloading stuff from steam the first few months and i haven't heard a thing from them or had an overages billed.

That's because you're on a VDSL2 port which is not currently monitored as there's enough infrastructure in place to allow you go to hog wild. Regular DSL2 ports are monitored religiously.

frumpsnake posted:

Obviously Shaw is better in your area. Cable is always going to be variable and depend on your area, but Telus Optik is always 100% for me.


Well gently caress.

But from what I can see, it's $47 for 15Mbps/125GB on Shaw, or $50 for 25Mbps/250GB on Telus.

edit: vvvvvvv I just moved here from Australia, let me have my moment before they actually start counting data and I end up in a worse situation than Australia (where my limit is now apparently 1TB )

Same with you. If you're on Optik fiber then you're not capped and probably never will be. It doesn't cost telus anything for you to run through multiple TB on fiber. I've gone past 1tb in the past and nothing happened. In fact I'm still getting free telus fiber because everytime i phone them to try and sign up they say my address doesn't exist. Oh well.

Nitr0 fucked around with this message at Nov 14, 2010 around 01:58

Shoota_McG
Sep 8, 2004


Very few Telus subscribers have fiber all the way to their house, 99% (or higher) Optik subscribers are still copper to the house.

It doesn't matter if you're on VDSL2 or DSL2+ since the DSLAM is still fed by the same fiber back to the network, it's only an increase in bandwidth from the DSLAM to your house. It's always been fiber to fielded 2+ equipment.

Telus kinda sorta tracks bandwidth, but as long as I've been paying attention it doesn't seem to be consistent and I've never heard of them bothering anybody who also subscribes to Telus TV.

Also, what in the gently caress could anybody have a use for 1TB a night in downloads? Are you downloading things just to say you have things?

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


Actually it makes quite a large amount of difference if you're on VDSL2 or DSL2. You can read more about it at dslreports.com/forum/telus

FTTH is quite prevalent in Vancouver. 2 of the previous condos I've rented had fiber directly to my suite.

and the tb was just a bunch of stuff i lost from a hd crash. Typically my dl is not that high

Shoota_McG
Sep 8, 2004


Ah. Are you sure it was fiber and not ethernet? A lot of condos have ethernet to the suite with a DSLAM in the building. Not quite fiber but still stupid fast and the latency is ridiculously low.

I've never even heard of a condo having fiber to the suite, but I'm in Edmonton.

As far as DSL Reports goes, like I said, Telus seems to be pretty inconsistent but the current VDSL2 ports are just upgraded 2+ ports and they didn't run any new fiber to the existing fielded DSLAMs so it doesn't make any sense to me why Telus would care any more or less for one or the other. I don't think they're selling internet alone on VDSL2 at this point, just Optik TV - and like I said, they've never really cared about TV customers downloading a lot.

Shoota_McG fucked around with this message at Nov 14, 2010 around 02:15

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


Sorry, you're right it's ethernet to the suite (etts) but still fiber directly to the building.

and afaik if they upgraded to vdsl2 then they upgraded the dslam with fiber as well. At least in BC. I mean what would be the point of uprading to vdsl2 if they don't install fiber?

and yea the latency is crazy on fiber with telus. I assume telus has just allocated some new ip's and that's why it's misrepresenting my location but 6ms to seattle is not too bad (even though it should be 1 or 2 really)

Nitr0 fucked around with this message at Nov 14, 2010 around 02:24

Shoota_McG
Sep 8, 2004


They may have upgraded the fiber hardware on each end of the fiber to the DSLAM but it's been fiber for a long time. There was always more than enough bandwidth to a DSLAM to support greater than 2+ speeds. A large percentage of Optik subscribers are still on 2+ and not even VDSL (and some older pre-Optik customers still running on hardware older than 2+).

That's insane, I'm on copper and I am lucky to see 60ms.

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


So far this has yet to affect TekSavvy from what I can see. I switched from DSL to cable because DSL in my area is awful (and yet Bell advertises non-existent Fibe all over my intersection). So far I've been able to torrent to my heart's content using an SSTP VPN, and having 10/1 instead of 4/0.5 has been awesome.

Here's hoping I get grandfathered if this all goes to hell. I wrote several MPs about how awful broadband is in the country's largest city and got only a single form reply, so no one is going to legislate us out of the stone age like they did with wireless.

Toronto seems to have it way worse than out west. My friend leases at 1 King West, one of the best addresses in the city, and says his ETTH service is 100/1 and filters all the server ports. Maybe he's not doing any thorough testing, but 100/1??

Shumagorath fucked around with this message at Nov 15, 2010 around 04:47

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The stroke of death is as a lover's pinch, Which hurts and is desired.

Hmm, Netflix comes to Canada, Bell institutes global bandwidth caps and buys CTV all within months of each other. Nothing going on there. Nope. Not a thing. But hey, I can watch CTV on my phone for the low, low price of $10/month.

less than three posted:



haha Shaw did the same thing to me for a long time. I kept telling them that there are no stations that I watch that I can't get on my antennae. Eventually they just gave me free digital cable. No strings. I love Shaw and look forward to their cellular offering.

e: despite the constant BUY OUR HOME PHONE snail mails. I already pay too much for my cell phone, I don't need another phone.

ZShakespeare fucked around with this message at Nov 15, 2010 around 07:39

Shoota_McG
Sep 8, 2004


Shumagorath posted:

So far this has yet to affect TekSavvy from what I can see. I switched from DSL to cable because DSL in my area is awful (and yet Bell advertises non-existent Fibe all over my intersection). So far I've been able to torrent to my heart's content using an SSTP VPN, and having 10/1 instead of 4/0.5 has been awesome.

Here's hoping I get grandfathered if this all goes to hell. I wrote several MPs about how awful broadband is in the country's largest city and got only a single form reply, so no one is going to legislate us out of the stone age like they did with wireless.

Toronto seems to have it way worse than out west. My friend leases at 1 King West, one of the best addresses in the city, and says his ETTH service is 100/1 and filters all the server ports. Maybe he's not doing any thorough testing, but 100/1??

Yeah, Telus does 100/1 in City Place in Toronto.

EoRaptor
Sep 13, 2003

Start a new life with the Power Girl Diet&trade. It worked for me!

Need to be tough on crime but don't have the budget for even more prisons? Just create an unlimited police state, online!:

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5451/135/

WanderingKid
Feb 27, 2005

lives here...

I find this thread really astounding. We don't have usage limits over here, we don't get fined for canceling subscriptions, we don't have to return our free routers and I don't receive cold calls trying to sell me services I don't want or need.

It just occured to me that if I wanted to redownload just one of my Steam games on a basic Canadian broadband package it would wipe out my monthly cap three times over in less than 4 hours.

What. The. gently caress.

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

Got a Shaw direct mailer today, right on schedule.

This month's deal?

Home phone, promotional pricing: $19.95/mo for first six months!

After that, regular rate of $20.95/mo applies.

Whoo! I can get a landline and save six loving dollars over a 6 month period! Sign me up!

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

The Genesis Device is NOT a weapon! It's a totally different head. Totally.


Saying "over here" is pretty loving meaningless you know.

8ender
Sep 24, 2003

clown is watching you sleep


Chris Knight posted:

Saying "over here" is pretty loving meaningless you know.

I believe you live in Toronto so you should be used to it. "Over here" is inside the GTA and "Over there" is anywhere else.

teethgrinder
Oct 9, 2002

Nurse?

His profile says Dublin.

Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

"When I see someone tilting my tables, I shoot the Bastard. That's my policy!"


teethgrinder posted:

His profile says Dublin.

Is that somewhere near Mississauga?

Not exactly net realated, but it involves all the same players and cell phones use the net. . . so yah.

http://www.nupge.ca/content/3754/pr...phone-companies

This guy introduced a private members bill to take some of the bite out of the cell phone companies' contracts. Stuff like $400 contract cancellation fines, auto renewing contracts, switching companies after your phone is paid off, etc. If this passes it would be nice to have something similar for the internet side of things.

I know what you're saying, "private members bills have a one in a million chance of making it" but this guy seems to have a decent track record by making laws that aim at annoying things that piss off most Canaidans (smoking in cars with kids).

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


Unfortunately I doubt internet bill shock is as prevalent as cellphone bill shock. The best thing that can happen is more people using Netflix and Steam/PSN/Live, as that means more people bumping into their caps through normal use and thus creating an outcry over bills. Either that, or IP-based TV and movie services start getting bandwidth cap exemption from the carriers and someone cries antitrust.

Edit: How weak an argument is it if the carriers argue that the services should be exempt because they're entirely internal?

Shumagorath fucked around with this message at Nov 18, 2010 around 03:40

Rukus
Mar 13, 2007

Hmph.


Shumagorath posted:

Either that, or IP-based TV and movie services start getting bandwidth cap exemption from the carriers and someone cries antitrust.

If Steam and Netflix got bandwidth cap exemptions half of my problems with the drat thing would disappear. Too bad it'll never happen.

Crumbletron
Jul 21, 2006

KNÆLE.


Shumagorath posted:

Unfortunately I doubt internet bill shock is as prevalent as cellphone bill shock. The best thing that can happen is more people using Netflix and Steam/PSN/Live, as that means more people bumping into their caps through normal use and thus creating an outcry over bills. Either that, or IP-based TV and movie services start getting bandwidth cap exemption from the carriers and someone cries antitrust.

Edit: How weak an argument is it if the carriers argue that the services should be exempt because they're entirely internal?

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that almost every major ISP in Canada also has a cable/satellite TV branch and their own form of PPV/movie streaming. Average price for a movie rental is around $5. I doubt they'd ever come around to giving exemptions to Netflix and the like without government interference. They can only stand to lose money.

On the other hand, I don't think any of them let you stream TV shows at will (not that I've seen, although I haven't used PPV ever with Bell TV), and at $9 a month, there's definitely a market for that. It's more of a question of whether you're willing to pay overage fees every month for busting your cap.

Crumbletron fucked around with this message at Nov 18, 2010 around 07:48

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




I think handing out exemptions on a per-app basis would almost be worse than what we have now. Sure maybe now you can stream netflix without worrying about your cap, but what happens when the next big bandwidth heavy service comes to town? Also if you think they're stingy about bandwidth caps now, just wait until "UNLIMITED NETFLIX AND LAST.FM 10gb general bitcap*" plans hit.


* "what's the problem now? why would you possibly need more than 10gb now that you can stream netflix all you want!"

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8ender
Sep 24, 2003

clown is watching you sleep


Martytoof posted:

I think handing out exemptions on a per-app basis would almost be worse than what we have now.

Oh most definitely. You just know that Bell and Rogers would monetize the poo poo out of a system like that.

"Want people to use your service without blowing through their tiny bandwidth caps? We want a cut."

People blowing through their caps is exactly what we need because its the only thing that seems to wake up the hibernating Canadian and make them angry. Just the other day my boss started going nuts because Rogers had apparently quietly moved them to a new internet plan with a cap and the first time they'd heard of it was when they went way over it using iTunes.

Now Rogers is like a curse word to her. I think the overage fees pushed her over the edge. She's had the usual problems with Rogers outages, poo poo customer service, hostile billing, etc. This was enough to push her into looking at alternatives like Teksavvy, etc.

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