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kuddles
Jul 16, 2006

Like a fist wrapped in blood...

8ender posted:

Oh most definitely. You just know that Bell and Rogers would monetize the poo poo out of a system like that.

"Want people to use your service without blowing through their tiny bandwidth caps? We want a cut."
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the endgame of all this capping nonsense. It's the only possible explanation for why they've been fighting tooth-and-nail to convince the public that net neutrality isn't sustainable.

I'm sure they would love to have a situation where they offer anti-competitive things like "iTunes paid us our fees so use them, if you use Amazon or HMV Digital you'll blow your cap".

Or even worse: "Subscribe to Netflix and pay $1.50 per GB. Subscribe to our crappier Bell/Rogers-owned streaming service and you won't be penalized at all!"

You gotta assume they have been seriously considering that scenario.

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rscott
Dec 10, 2009


Bandwidth exempt services only end up with a tiered internet, which is an absolutely horrible thing.

tonelok
Sep 28, 2001

Hanukkah came early this year.

Martytoof posted:

Also if you think they're stingy about bandwidth caps now, just wait until "UNLIMITED NETFLIX AND LAST.FM 10gb general bitcap*" plans hit.


* "what's the problem now? why would you possibly need more than 10gb now that you can stream netflix all you want!"
Netflix is working on 1080p streaming. That's going to go over really well with the ISPs/telcos. Bad enough you are somehow cheating them because you no longer do PPV or whatever.

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

Gotta' nuke something.


tonelok posted:

Netflix is working on 1080p streaming. That's going to go over really well with the ISPs/telcos. Bad enough you are somehow cheating them because you no longer do PPV or whatever.

Would that really be a huge issue in Canada though? Netflix's selection is loving revolting up here. I got my free trial, and two days later was basically "Hmmm, yeah..... not getting my moneys worth here. Cancel." I guess some people might be into it, that is if they like watching Westerns from the 40's that flopped, or off-brand ripoffs of the American Pie series.

"Hey Mike, you wanna watch "El Gunno Magnifico', or 'Panty Camp 5: Ain't Nuthin' Butt a Groove Thong'?"

"Uhhhhh.... lets watch commercials instead."

kuddles
Jul 16, 2006

Like a fist wrapped in blood...

Bloody Hedgehog posted:

Would that really be a huge issue in Canada though? Netflix's selection is loving revolting up here.
People keep saying that, but I don't get it. Maybe because I have no clue what the American version has (although I always assumed because of our weird licensing issues it would be worse), but as far as I'm concerned, the selection is astronomically better than anything I had imagined. I love it.

8ender
Sep 24, 2003

clown is watching you sleep


I don't doubt at all that Netflix will be getting a better selection as time rolls on. What I do see is Bell and Rogers getting increasingly hostile towards services like Netflix, iTunes, etc as they continue to eat their lunch and cannibalize tv subscriptions.

The best indicator of this is that my mom of all people is considering just buying an Apple TV and season passes to her few favorite shows. She's worked out that this will be vastly cheaper to cable. If more baby boomers figure this out it'll be a big loving kick in the teeth to traditional tv service.

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


I think you're forgetting that a majority of Canadians live in areas where high speed internet isn't reliable or even that fast. People are lucky to get 4Mb/s on DSL in most areas. Satellite and cable will be around for a long while still.

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

Gotta' nuke something.


kuddles posted:

People keep saying that, but I don't get it. Maybe because I have no clue what the American version has (although I always assumed because of our weird licensing issues it would be worse), but as far as I'm concerned, the selection is astronomically better than anything I had imagined. I love it.

I'm just going by Shaw's VOD/PPV services. They are of course much more expensive than Netflix's offering (depending on who much you watch), but you actually get new stuff. At this point Shaw gets virtually every new release the same day the DVD comes out, for $5 a pop either on VOD or PPV. They also have a fair selection for free TV shows (The Office, Cleveland Show, Family Guy, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, etc etc), and a wide selection of other TV shows at 99c a pop.

The only recent release I can think of that they didn't get is Toy Story 3, but that's Disney for you. What are Netflix Canada's most recent releases?

All About Steve
Jennifer's Body
Miss March
Best of Chris Farley
Super High Me
Fly Me to The Moon
What Happens in Vegas

Whoo! Timely, and entertaining! Don't worry though, they'll probably get Avatar or Inception on there in a good 5 to 6 years (well after they've probably played on television).


8ender posted:

I don't doubt at all that Netflix will be getting a better selection as time rolls on.

Unlikely. After people bitched that the Canadian selection sucked, the CEO basically came out and said "We're not about new releases, or going to compete with rentals or PPV services. We're for people who want to catch old movies they missed." Essentially they're offering a low-priced service with lowest-common-denominator offerings.

Bloody Hedgehog fucked around with this message at Nov 18, 2010 around 18:18

kuddles
Jul 16, 2006

Like a fist wrapped in blood...

Bloody Hedgehog posted:

They are of course much more expensive than Netflix's offering (depending on who much you watch)

Yeah, well, that's just it, isn't it? I never assumed that an "all you can watch, on demand" service for $8 as month was going to carry all the most recent uber-blockbusters that could still handily make $5-6 as a time limited rental.

In the past month alone I watched: Miller's Crossing, Hard Eight, Owning Mahowny, Vertigo, 12 Monkeys, Slumdog Millionaire and Capturing The Friedmans just as some examples, not including a bunch of indies, foreign films and documentaries that I never would have known about. More than worth $8 for me.

kuddles fucked around with this message at Nov 18, 2010 around 18:34

cka
May 3, 2004


Is the Sci Fi category in Canadian Netflix still essentially the "Asylum Films" repository? My free trial ran out a month ago and I didn't feel it was worth the 8 bucks a month to keep it going, especially since a good majority of the films I like to watch aren't available on it... The MST3K stuff is nice, albeit extremely limited. And lord oh lord the television selection. Yech.

Squibbles
Aug 24, 2000

Mwaha ha HA ha!

Some guy started maintaining a list of what they are adding to netflix canada. They do add new things almost every day. Not the best things mind you...
http://app.whatsnewonnetflix.com/

I too signed up for a trial and just got depressed when I checked through the genre for things that are typically hilarious bad movies that I enjoy such as Kung Fu movies or whatever. Hardly any selection in Canada and the one site I used would also return results from the american netflix and just seeing the HUNDREDS of hilarious looking cheesy movies available there that I couldn't watch up here made me sad enough to cancel my account and wait a few years until their selection fills out.

Squibbles fucked around with this message at Nov 18, 2010 around 18:55

Bonzo
Mar 11, 2004



Cineplex is now saying they are doing to start streaming movies.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...article1803454/

EDIT: Sorry, not streaming but downloads

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

Gotta' nuke something.


kuddles posted:

Yeah, well, that's just it, isn't it? I never assumed that an "all you can watch, on demand" service for $8 as month was going to carry all the most recent uber-blockbusters that could still handily make $5-6 as a time limited rental.

In the past month alone I watched: Miller's Crossing, Hard Eight, Owning Mahowny, Vertigo, 12 Monkeys, Slumdog Millionaire and Capturing The Friedmans just as some examples, not including a bunch of indies, foreign films and documentaries that I never would have known about. More than worth $8 for me.

I agree that they can't have the new-new stuff for that price, but I would still expect new releases within a few months of them coming out on DVD. At this rate they'll start getting new releases years after they've been out. And it won't be all movies either, as they have very few contracts with the studios for streaming content, so they're not going to have anything at all from many studios catalogues.

The Gunslinger
Jul 24, 2004

Do not forget the face of your father.

Bonzo posted:

Cineplex is now saying they are doing to start streaming movies.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...article1803454/

EDIT: Sorry, not streaming but downloads

That's fantastic news, more stuff like that can only be good for getting mass consumers more aware of the usage cap BS going on.

quote:

I agree that they can't have the new-new stuff for that price, but I would still expect new releases within a few months of them coming out on DVD. At this rate they'll start getting new releases years after they've been out. And it won't be all movies either, as they have very few contracts with the studios for streaming content, so they're not going to have anything at all from many studios catalogues.

Honestly, it just comes down to whether back catalogue stuff is important to you or not. Like you, I canceled my Netflix sub during the trial. I just found that I have more than enough new TV and movies to watch, I really don't have time to devote to back catalogue quality stuff even at $8 a month. Chances are that most older movies I want to watch for a second time are sitting in my DVD library anyways. The majority of titles on Netflix Canada aren't the type of movie I want to necessarily see a second time, just generally speaking.

Someone with more time on their hands or who doesn't watch a lot of current content might feel differently though and for $8 a month I'm sure its a bargain to them.

kuddles
Jul 16, 2006

Like a fist wrapped in blood...

The Gunslinger posted:

Someone with more time on their hands or who doesn't watch a lot of current content might feel differently though and for $8 a month I'm sure its a bargain to them.
Yeah, I should mention that I don't subscribe to cable or watch a lot of television (and even then only on DVD), have an unpredictable work schedule and I'm a huge movie buff with a really broad taste (my Zip queue has never been below 200 titles) so that's certainly part of the appeal for me. I also still have a Zip subscription (although I lowered it) and occasionally rent new stuff off Xbox or PSN. Maybe if these movies were playing all the time on TBS or IFC or whatever and I had those I might be less inclined to find this service attractive.

Still, I've just noticed that people accusing it of terrible selection also seem to have an extremely limited taste and/or are only interested in new releases. I've heard plenty of people in the States talk about how unappealling Hulu Premium is because access to recent programs isn't worth being more expensive than Netflix, so it's a matter of perspective I guess.

Anyways, enough derailing. The point is I love Netflix but it's killing my lovely bandwidth caps.

kuddles fucked around with this message at Nov 18, 2010 around 20:22

Nomenklatura
Dec 4, 2002

If Canada is to survive, it can only survive in mutual respect and in love for one another.


Martytoof posted:

I think handing out exemptions on a per-app basis would almost be worse than what we have now. Sure maybe now you can stream netflix without worrying about your cap, but what happens when the next big bandwidth heavy service comes to town? Also if you think they're stingy about bandwidth caps now, just wait until "UNLIMITED NETFLIX AND LAST.FM 10gb general bitcap*" plans hit.


* "what's the problem now? why would you possibly need more than 10gb now that you can stream netflix all you want!"
Yeah, that's how they'd kill net neutrality.

(Or WILL kill net neutrality. )

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002



Nitr0 posted:

I think you're forgetting that a majority of Canadians live in areas where high speed internet isn't reliable or even that fast. People are lucky to get 4Mb/s on DSL in most areas. Satellite and cable will be around for a long while still.
According to the 2009 census the population of canada is ~ 34 million and 23 million of those live in major metropolitan areas.

So yeah, no.

quote:

St. John's (N.L.) 187.6
Halifax (N.S.) 398
Moncton (N.B.)1 133.9
Saint John (N.B.) 126.6
Saguenay (Que.) 151.7
Québec (Que.) 746.3
Sherbrooke (Que.) 194.6
Trois-Rivières (Que.) 145.1
Montréal (Que.) 3,814.70
Ottawa-Gatineau (Ont.-Que.) 1,220.70
Kingston (Ont.) 160.7
Peterborough (Ont.)1 121.4
Oshawa (Ont.) 361.4
Toronto (Ont.) 5,623.50
Hamilton (Ont.) 739.4
St. Catharines-Niagara (Ont.) 404.4
Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo (Ont.) 489.1
Brantford (Ont.)1 137.7
Guelph (Ont.)1 135.9
London (Ont.) 489.3
Windsor (Ont.) 331.5
Barrie (Ont.)1 190.4
Greater Sudbury (Ont.) 165.3
Thunder Bay (Ont.) 124.8
Winnipeg (Man.) 742.4
Regina (Sask.) 210
Saskatoon (Sask.) 257.3
Calgary (Alta.) 1,230.20
Edmonton (Alta.) 1,155.40
Kelowna (B.C.)1 178.4
Abbotsford-Mission (B.C.) 173.7
Vancouver (B.C.) 2,328.00
Victoria (B.C.) 352.4
Total 23221.8

cowofwar fucked around with this message at Nov 18, 2010 around 21:12

Shoota_McG
Sep 8, 2004


Very few areas of Edmonton can't get at least 15mbps DSL through Telus, I'm sure Shaw coverage is similar.

Acer Pilot
Feb 17, 2007
put the 'the' in therapist





Bloody Hedgehog posted:

I'm just going by Shaw's VOD/PPV services. They are of course much more expensive than Netflix's offering (depending on who much you watch), but you actually get new stuff. At this point Shaw gets virtually every new release the same day the DVD comes out, for $5 a pop either on VOD or PPV. They also have a fair selection for free TV shows (The Office, Cleveland Show, Family Guy, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, etc etc), and a wide selection of other TV shows at 99c a pop.

Kind of an aside but I have Shaw and don't get those shows for free. What kind of package are you on?

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


To clarify, I was suggesting that the carriers would start offering their own cap-exempt streaming services and everyone else would have to go to the government. Rogers and Bell don't want anyone to get paid for media except them.

Zo
Feb 22, 2005

LIKE A FOX


cowofwar posted:

According to the 2009 census the population of canada is ~ 34 million and 23 million of those live in major metropolitan areas.

So yeah, no.

Yea but what about affordability? A lot of people won't want to pay more than $50/mth for internet, nevermind the $85+ needed for decent speed and bw cap with rogers (most people's only choice), when you're talking about HD streaming.

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The stroke of death is as a lover's pinch, Which hurts and is desired.

It's already started. With my Bell Mobile plan I get 500mb general internet and unlimited Facebook/Twitter and I think myspace. Why would I need more than 500mb when I get UNLIMITED FACEBOOK?

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

Gotta' nuke something.


drcru posted:

Kind of an aside but I have Shaw and don't get those shows for free. What kind of package are you on?

Just basic digital. They're not under the "Free" section, just go into Television, then Prime Time, and several of the shows listed there are free. The only downside is they don't keep the free and paid content separate, so some shows listed there are the paid stuff.

Keep in mind as well that Shaw only has a fraction of their total content listed through the TV menu. If you go to their VOD website, there's a ton more stuff to choose from.

MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.


It appears that the PlayStation Network store now has Hi-Def movies and TV shows in Canada. Interesting to see how people's bandwidth will now be raped by downloading a full HD movie.

Sprawl
Nov 21, 2005


I'm a huge retarded sperglord who can't spell, but Starfleet Dental would still take me and I love them for it!


Its always had the 720p movies for me.

Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

"When I see someone tilting my tables, I shoot the Bastard. That's my policy!"


Nitr0 posted:

I think you're forgetting that a majority of Canadians live in areas where high speed internet isn't reliable or even that fast. People are lucky to get 4Mb/s on DSL in most areas. Satellite and cable will be around for a long while still.

This right here! I have Eastlink (forget what their second tier level is called". It's unlimited, but here is a Sunday afternoon test, and that's pretty typical.



Also! Still have not gotten my $113 cheque from Bell, so I fired off another email to India tech support. Their reply was. . .

Bell Fuckheads! posted:

Hello Blistex,

You have reached Bell Internet Services, my name is Krishnan and I
appreciate the opportunity to respond.

*****some numbers that you probably shouldn't post on a forum (I think)*****

I apologize for the inconveience caused and I do very much understand the delay
is happened in the refund process. I have checked the records and I
could see that the refund cheque request is placed to the concern team.
As per the process the amount will be refund to you by 7-8 weeks of
time once the request is placed.

They keep pushing that date back 7-8 weeks! Tomorrow I'm going to try and get a hold of someone in Canada who has the ability to actually give a response that's not written on a script in front of them and see what the gently caress is going on. I would rather hook my router up to a salad bowl pointed at the sky and pray some random bits fall into it than go back to Bell and give them a solitary cent.

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

City of Vancouver voted today in favour of lobbying the CRTC to reverse their decision on usage based billing.

http://www.vancouversun.com/technol...9389/story.html

Of course I fully expect the CRTC to ignore it. Somebody needs to pull a Quebec Bill 60 and regulate it at the provincial level, because it's clear the CRTC isn't up for protecting consumers at the federal level.

MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.


CRTC isn't up for doing poo poo except giving the telcos a licence for printing more cash from subscribers with no other option.

Is it still $100 per month for a decent iphone plan?

8ender
Sep 24, 2003

clown is watching you sleep


MA-Horus posted:

CRTC isn't up for doing poo poo except giving the telcos a licence for printing more cash from subscribers with no other option.

Is it still $100 per month for a decent iphone plan?

Depends how savvy and invested you are with the various carriers. I recently scored $78 / month for unlimited local and long distance calling, 6 GB data, visual voicemail, etc from Rogers. Its nice to not worry about minutes anymore. This isn't typical though, and they'll work you for as much as possible if you're a new customer.

spoof
Jul 8, 2004


Good news everyone! Bell lowered their 6Mbit DSL caps to 25GB/month and raised the maximum overage to $60/month. Unless you go over 300GB/month, in which case the sky is the limit.

Words escape me.

technovert
Oct 29, 2009


At least Teksavvy cable is being rolled out, it's not perfect but at least it will be better than what Rogers/Cogeco/Videotron/Bell can offer. Really needs to be rolled out faster with all the insanity in Canadian internet.

Junubee
Feb 24, 2004

Cut it out, the players don't want to hear my problems.

I'm just waiting for MTS to follow suit. So far they've been the best provider, no caps (on Internet or cell data plans), decent speed, at a not horrible price. That said, we still pay $200~ for TV, phone, internet and cell w/ data plan, without hi-def channels.

It makes me wonder just how much the average Canadian is really willing to put up with everything before they finally start getting angry. I've already done my writing to MPs, MLAs and anyone else who will listen about this and many other silly problems Canadians just put up with.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




spoof posted:

Good news everyone! Bell lowered their 6Mbit DSL caps to 25GB/month and raised the maximum overage to $60/month. Unless you go over 300GB/month, in which case the sky is the limit.

Words escape me.

Bell appears to literally be evil.

spoof
Jul 8, 2004


Bell (and Rogers, and Cogeco and all the rest) seem to have a bit of a conflict of interest as far as the internet and their TV divisions go. You're going to pay them $30 or $50/mo on top of your internet for TV whether you get it from Netflix/other sources or one of their cables packages.

The Gunslinger
Jul 24, 2004

Do not forget the face of your father.

technovert posted:

At least Teksavvy cable is being rolled out, it's not perfect but at least it will be better than what Rogers/Cogeco/Videotron/Bell can offer. Really needs to be rolled out faster with all the insanity in Canadian internet.

Rogers just submitted an amended TPIA tariff for UBB rates for wholesale apparently though. Cogeco is basically ignoring the CRTC and only letting Teksavvy connect where they will drop dark fiber which means the rollouts will be glacial. In the end resellers cannot compete with Bell and Rogers while the CRTC is in their pocket. In a year there will basically be no reason to go with a reseller over Bell and Rogers since they will dictate the rates and often give better bandwidth options to their own customers. For example Bell lets you buy a 40GB block for $5 if you're a Bell customer but Teksavvy customers won't have that option, they will have pay the new rates. The speed matching prices were a joke too. It's a lovely situation, I don't know what anyone can do about it though other than get some lawyers involved because the CRTC is literally just doing whatever the hell Rogers and Bell ask for. At this point I'm not sure why the competition bureau of canada isn't involved or something, it's become ludicrous to the point of total transparency.

Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

In humility and with no need for Divine Guidance, I make this pledge.


The Gunslinger posted:

Rogers just submitted an amended TPIA tariff for UBB rates for wholesale apparently though. Cogeco is basically ignoring the CRTC and only letting Teksavvy connect where they will drop dark fiber which means the rollouts will be glacial. In the end resellers cannot compete with Bell and Rogers while the CRTC is in their pocket. In a year there will basically be no reason to go with a reseller over Bell and Rogers since they will dictate the rates and often give better bandwidth options to their own customers. For example Bell lets you buy a 40GB block for $5 if you're a Bell customer but Teksavvy customers won't have that option, they will have pay the new rates. The speed matching prices were a joke too. It's a lovely situation, I don't know what anyone can do about it though other than get some lawyers involved because the CRTC is literally just doing whatever the hell Rogers and Bell ask for. At this point I'm not sure why the competition bureau of canada isn't involved or something, it's become ludicrous to the point of total transparency.

It's because the majority of customers don't give a poo poo. Canada == Apathy, and all that

DropDeadRed
Jan 31, 2008


Rogers just started RAPING bandwidth here in Ottawa. I went from pulling 1.2MBit down on torrents cleanly with other applications able to work at the same time to now only being able to pull 2-300k and any time that there is any P2P running they are breaking all connections to the point where i cannot stay connected to an online game at all. Disconnected within 1 minute. It's ridiculous.

Their new "traffic management" is also impacting RDP and logmein and other business type applications.

I am SERIOUSLY thinking of trying to get Teksavvy cable service here. I was told by previous owner that we are too far from the CO for any DSL based service but I only recently found out about Teksavvy even having cable based service. The only thing slowing me down is reading that Rogers is in the process of getting set up to mess with Teksavvy's cable customers like Bell does with DSL resellers.



I used to have AT&T U-Verse FTTN service in Houston last year... Rogers here in Ottawa makes me cry!

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

The Genesis Device is NOT a weapon! It's a totally different head. Totally.


Only in Canada is loving over your own customers considered a legitimate business strategy to avoid competition/slowing churn rates.

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


spoof posted:

Good news everyone! Bell lowered their 6Mbit DSL caps to 25GB/month and raised the maximum overage to $60/month. Unless you go over 300GB/month, in which case the sky is the limit.

Words escape me.
I want to believe this is some tough love plan to force everyone over to fiber, but they don't even have that deployed in half the places they advertise it.

Do Blotto boxes actually work? Can we do that?

DropDeadRed posted:

Rogers just started RAPING bandwidth here in Ottawa. I went from pulling 1.2MBit down on torrents cleanly with other applications able to work at the same time to now only being able to pull 2-300k and any time that there is any P2P running they are breaking all connections to the point where i cannot stay connected to an online game at all. Disconnected within 1 minute. It's ridiculous.
StrongVPN to the US or even somewhere else in Canada should get your torrents back in shape. I never run P2P with games going but if you get an endpoint in Toronto or Montreal you shouldn't notice a huge spike in lag. Hell, you might even get better routing to some of the server providers.

Make sure you get an OpenVPN or SSTP connection because PPTP isn't secure. I have an SSTP connection and max out my bandwidth both ways on Teksavvy cable.

Shumagorath fucked around with this message at Dec 21, 2010 around 04:42

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DropDeadRed
Jan 31, 2008


Shumagorath posted:

StrongVPN to the US or even somewhere else in Canada should get your torrents back in shape. I never run P2P with games going but if you get an endpoint in Toronto or Montreal you shouldn't notice a huge spike in lag. Hell, you might even get better routing to some of the server providers.

Yay for paying MORE cash to get the ability to make use of what I already pay a monthly fee to get!

Do you have trouble maxing out your bandwidth with tekksavy cable without the VPN? Are they already throttling tekksavy cable? I thought that wasn't happening quite yet.

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