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Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

"When I see someone tilting my tables, I shoot the Bastard. That's my policy!"


Martytoof posted:

Bell appears to literally be evil.

My September Saga is seems like it's going to be going well into the new year.

August 1st, I call Bell and tell them I will be ending my one year lovely/Slow/Throttled/Capped Internet contract on Sept 6th, the day it is over. I have to call 1 month in advance because they will renew you if you wait any longer.

September 7th, It appears I have been renewed! I call bell, they admit the mistake (small miracles) and they say the $75.00 they charged me will be reversed.

September ~10th, I ask them when the box to mail my modem back will arrive. I also send them an email just to have a paper trail (I do this every step).

September 17th, the box arrives the same day my account shows a $113.00 charge from Bell for Modem late fee ($100) and tax ($13). I call them, explain the situation, and they admit the mistake, (2 for 2). They tell me the $75.00 and the $113.00 will be refunded to me.

Sept ~20th, my MasterCard shows the $75.00 is back in it, but the $113.00 is nowhere to be seen. I call them and they say it will be refunded to my account shortly.

Sept ~22nd, the money shows up in my Bell Account! I phone and tell them that it's no loving good there since I can't access it in a Bell account! They tell me some bullshit about sending a cheque, "we can't refund your mastercard" despite that exact thing being done that exact same day with the $75.00. The worst part of dealing with Bell is the tech support in India being unable to do anything other than read from a script and take 5-10 minutes to do the simplest thing on their computers, "I'm going to see when you put in the request for the refund <insert 5-10 minutes on hold> oh, yesterday!.

Mid November, I ask where the cheque is and they say 6-8 weeks.

December ~17th! I call Bell, ask where the loving cheque is and they tell me 6-8 weeks from "the date"! I ask what "date" they tell me Nov 17th!

I called today to make sure it's still in the works, they tell me that it was sent to the wrong address. The installation address of my old apartment, not the billing/mailing address I gave them. A new cheque will be sent to my address they have on file as my mailing/billing address. Arrival time 6-8 weeks!

I loving HATE BELL!!!! Why did you have to do Voiceovers for them Donald Sutherland?!?! You were so cool. . . now you suck!

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Rukus
Mar 13, 2007

Hmph.


Blistex posted:

Bell hell.
Couldn't you have just called up MasterCard, explained the situation, and have them do a chargeback and block Bell from charging the card anymore?


As for the question earlier about Teksavvy's cable getting capped/throttled: the current UBB system only affects DSL. If Rogers/whoever wanted to they could always file one for cable, but that would take a while to go through the CRTC's system.

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


Blistex, initiate a chargeback the second you cash that cheque.

DropDeadRed posted:

Yay for paying MORE cash to get the ability to make use of what I already pay a monthly fee to get!
StrongVPN has other uses, the least of which being Hulu access. You can even get router firmware that will VPN everything on your LAN if you want.

quote:

Do you have trouble maxing out your bandwidth with tekksavy cable without the VPN? Are they already throttling tekksavy cable? I thought that wasn't happening quite yet.
They're governed by whatever Rogers has in your area, which in my case has been throttling as far back as 2007. It's why I left them in the first place.

Shumagorath fucked around with this message at Dec 22, 2010 around 03:46

DropDeadRed
Jan 31, 2008


Shumagorath posted:

They're governed by whatever Rogers has in your area, which in my case has been throttling as far back as 2007. It's why I left them in the first place.

So are you saying that switching from Rogers cable over to Teksavvy cable will not get me around any P2P throttling that they do? (I know it gets past the monthly bandwidth cap.... at least until Rogers files that UBB)

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

DropDeadRed posted:

So are you saying that switching from Rogers cable over to Teksavvy cable will not get me around any P2P throttling that they do? (I know it gets past the monthly bandwidth cap.... at least until Rogers files that UBB)

Exactly!

Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

"When I see someone tilting my tables, I shoot the Bastard. That's my policy!"


Ruklo Burosee posted:

Couldn't you have just called up MasterCard, explained the situation, and have them do a chargeback and block Bell from charging the card anymore?

I've got a few more months of Bell mobile service that would cost me $400 to get out of. Last thing I want to do is get them pissed off when they still have my by the balls.

Shumagorath posted:

Blistex, initiate a chargeback the second you cash that cheque.

I would, but like I just tole Ruklo, they still have me in their grip. Plus I'd hate to have my credit ruined or something lovely like that if they decided to get nasty, not over $113.00. I'm going to get it back due to my extensive paper trail, it just might depreciate in value a few bucks due to inflation.

EoRaptor
Sep 13, 2003

Start a new life with the Power Girl Diet&trade. It worked for me!

DropDeadRed posted:

So are you saying that switching from Rogers cable over to Teksavvy cable will not get me around any P2P throttling that they do? (I know it gets past the monthly bandwidth cap.... at least until Rogers files that UBB)

I routinely max my Teksavvy cable when using bittorrent, and while Rogers certainly has the ability to implement throttling for TPIA customers, they haven't yet. Switching from Rogers to Teksavvy should remove any traffic shaping currently on your connection.

Viktor
Nov 12, 2005



DropDeadRed posted:

Rogers just started RAPING bandwidth here in Ottawa. I went from pulling 1.2MBit down on torrents cleanly with other applications able to work at the same time to now only being able to pull 2-300k and any time that there is any P2P running they are breaking all connections to the point where i cannot stay connected to an online game at all. Disconnected within 1 minute. It's ridiculous.

Their new "traffic management" is also impacting RDP and logmein and other business type applications.

When Eastlink implemented their P2P shaping it had the same effects on the network. The DPI service was overwhelmed and everything was unstable for a few weeks.

Also Eastlink has their P2P shaping info and rates in their AUP.

greatBigJerk
Sep 6, 2010


At least they're somewhat upfront about it, it's still bullshit, but at least it's bullshit out in the open.

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

Update on Shaw's movement into evil.

Since beginning their roll out of usage based billing for Internet, they've quietly reduced everybody's bandwidth caps by 20%.

Now their customers can hit their caps that much sooner.

MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.


Christ.

"Hey, guess what everyone? We're now going to give you LESS, for the exact same price! Oh, we can't change the price, we have to (insert corporate bullshit here)."

"PLUS ONLY (insert useless percentage here) OF USERS GO OVER THEIR BANDWIDTH CAP MOST PEOPLE WON'T NOTICE"

"Oh, online Netflix streaming? Shaw now offers a special service which gives you back those 20gb of bandwidth for only an additional 19.99 per month (Goes to 29.99 after 3 months)."

Whimsy
Jan 8, 2001


I'm upset that Teksavvy hasn't said a peep to their customers about this yet. They're the ones who have to charge, right? At this point, they should be concerned that their customers are going to be rightly pissed at a sudden apparent increase to their bill.

Has anyone else on notbell in Ontario received any kind of heads up from anyone?

The Gunslinger
Jul 24, 2004

Do not forget the face of your father.

Whimsy posted:

I'm upset that Teksavvy hasn't said a peep to their customers about this yet. They're the ones who have to charge, right? At this point, they should be concerned that their customers are going to be rightly pissed at a sudden apparent increase to their bill.


They will lose business like crazy if/when this goes through, I would fully expect them not to say anything until the last possible minute. For example I cancelled and went with Cogeco. If you do the math on the Cogeco overages compared to the UBB overages, taxes and base increase then they are about $8 off for comparable plans. I'd rather just pay the $30 overage to Cogeco and get 16mbps at the same time. I was a TS customer for years but the resellers are doomed as long as the CRTC is in the Telco/Cableco pocket. They were relatively ignored when they were just taking high usage users off their hands and before they started seriously chipping into Bell marketshare but now the hammer is dropping and it'll most likely just get worse.

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

YOSPOS...Shit.
I'm still only in YOSPOS.

Whimsy posted:

I'm upset that Teksavvy hasn't said a peep to their customers about this yet. They're the ones who have to charge, right? At this point, they should be concerned that their customers are going to be rightly pissed at a sudden apparent increase to their bill.

Has anyone else on notbell in Ontario received any kind of heads up from anyone?

I'm on TS cable, and at least on DSLReports they've been pretty up front saying they're still figuring out what to do.

Bonzo
Mar 11, 2004



Chris Knight posted:

I'm on TS cable, and at least on DSLReports they've been pretty up front saying they're still figuring out what to do.

They are ignoring emails though. I have dry DSL with them and have contacted their sales department twice. Not even a reply of "We are looking into it".

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




As soon as there's no viable reason to go with TekSavvy for uncapped service I fully expect companies like Cogeco to remove the "max $30 for overages" provision. Given everything I see, there's no reason that the ISPs won't use every opportunity to squeeze every last dollar out of Canadians.

teethgrinder
Oct 9, 2002

Nurse?

Time to quit the internet

The Gunslinger
Jul 24, 2004

Do not forget the face of your father.

Martytoof posted:

As soon as there's no viable reason to go with TekSavvy for uncapped service I fully expect companies like Cogeco to remove the "max $30 for overages" provision. Given everything I see, there's no reason that the ISPs won't use every opportunity to squeeze every last dollar out of Canadians.

I agree, in fact some(Rogers and higher end Cogeco plans) have started upping it to $50 already. Unfortunately the UBB Teksavvy alternative isn't any more endearing financially, especially considering the huge speed disparity. At least with Cogeco I can threaten to cancel, go with Bell and vice versa. They seem to be deathly afraid of losing customers to each other but don't really care about resellers other than them being a gnat to be swatted using the CRTC. Any time I've hit up retentions at either company over the years I get ridiculous concessions and by the time they end I can usually repeat the process.

Obviously it's not ideal but there's no loving way I'm paying $76 for 5mbit DSL. Hell in my case its 2.5mbit DSL since Bell randomly relocated me off a remote and Teksavvy can't do anything to fix it. I really hoped Netflix or someone like that would have been more proactive in lobbying but they seem to be taking a "content usage will force them to stop it" approach to this. I've done what I can do as a citizen short of getting myself arrested for some publicity stunt so I finally just said gently caress it and got Cogeco.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




Oh yeah I wasn't aiming that specifically at you, I just happen to be on Cogeco as well. It's just where I see it going.

As bad as it sounds but I hope the big companies start gouging people for prices because -- LITERALLY -- the only slim chance Canadians have of changing this is public outrage, and that won't happen until mom and pop start to see a $100 overage because they've "just been watching tv online, what's the big deal?"

The Gunslinger
Jul 24, 2004

Do not forget the face of your father.

100% agreed and sorry if my earlier post sounded defensive. See what I worry about is a situation I ran into recently with a friend of the family. He asks me to come over and help him out with "the computer" which turns out to be a problem related to his router. I'm looking over his old Sympatico documentation and he has a more recent Bell bill on the top. I point out the overage charge he has on there and I'm about to start explaining how mad he should be at them but he interrupts to say "oh yeah I know about it, Mike was downloading too many Xboxes or something, we told him to smarten up". This guy is about what I consider the norm to be for technical skills in the Niagara region so I have wonder how outraged people would even be, they seem to view it as water or power and don't understand the concept of timed congestion. These people might get angry and call Bell but they are told a line of bullshit by the reps and probably just do whatever they say.

Cogeco is a great example of companies exploiting this intelligently too. The cheap plans have $30 overages because they know they have way more customers on those plans, those sorts of customers are upset by large/unexpected bills and generally they will have less churn with smaller overages there. The higher end packages have bigger overages because they know they can get away with it and are risking less. Bell is playing similar games now.

You can't make people understand this stuff and I think it will take a literal generation change for that to happen on it's own sadly. I kind of hope the newer generation that doesn't have a tentacle attached to cable TV will have streaming habits that force this to go in another direction, like Netflix is counting on I guess.

The Gunslinger fucked around with this message at Dec 23, 2010 around 18:54

teethgrinder
Oct 9, 2002

Nurse?

I have to say, the speeds offered by the majors has ZERO influence on me. The total transfer allowed is the only thing that matters now. Yeah I download a lot, but 500 KB/sec is seriously fine. I browse fast and have very low latency in games. Downloads come when they come. I don't NEED super-right-now-this-instant gratification. And even still, it's like 10 minutes for 350 MB. I buy my Steam games, and I have them all downloaded in the morning.

Speaking of game downloads, I just spent 10 GB on PSN demos last night. It's like demos would no longer even be free with Bell or Rogers. I think the last GT5 patch was over 600 MB.

All this clamping down on bandwidth is coming at a time where it's easy to legitimately hit the caps with digital distribution, NetFlix & YouTube. Even my iTunes downloads are significant traffic some months.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




Yeah. Every time I launch Steam there's some 200mb update to TF2. I want to install some PSN demos but they're like 2-4gb and while I'm covered under Cogeco's $30 overage cap I don't really want to start pushing it or anything. Yeesh. They have me trained, what can I say?

It helps that I have an office on campus that's connected to a fat fat campus pipe with no bitcaps or rate limits, but that doesn't help me when it comes to things like Netflix or PSN

The Gunslinger
Jul 24, 2004

Do not forget the face of your father.

quote:

I have to say, the speeds offered by the majors has ZERO influence on me. The total transfer allowed is the only thing that matters now.

Oh I agree but I actually did a comparison for pre/post UBB Teksavvy versus Cogeco/Bell and unfortunately the difference was something like $8.00 and a big chunk of my bill indirectly funds Bell anyway. Cogeco isn't exactly my favorite company in the world but they are the lesser evil in this situation and the extra speed is just gravy. I gave Teksavvy a long time but nothing has really changed in that period, in fact things have gotten worse. I understand it's not their fault and they're one of the few companies fighting it but I just kind of hit my limit (horrible pun). I figure worst case scenario if they ever get around to rolling out TS cable in all Cogeco regions then I can switch back but in the meantime I've had enough of Bell and DSL to last awhile. I had a similar attitude with the whole 5mbit DSL thing until Bell randomly picked my name out of a hat for raping and Teksavvy is totally powerless to do anything about it.

The Gunslinger fucked around with this message at Dec 23, 2010 around 19:29

Whiskey A Go Go!
May 7, 2007

For legal reasons, the answer is no. For anecdotal reasons...sure why not.

I just love how BellAliant gives a giant "gently caress you" to anyone in Apartments or Renting. In addition to paying a month ahead, they charge you a extra $10 a month for not being in a permanent residence and a $50 dollar fee for Apartment Setup since it requires "special techniques" to activate the service. I'm going to stick with Rogers regardless of the caps they have since they are not trying to gut me for living in a loving apartment building.

Whiskey A Go Go! fucked around with this message at Dec 24, 2010 around 01:49

Arsten
Feb 18, 2003


Whiskey A Go Go! posted:

for not being in a permanent residence

Are Canadian apartment buildings made out of cloth or something? How is an apartment not a permanent residence?

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

Arsten posted:

Are Canadian apartment buildings made out of cloth or something? How is an apartment not a permanent residence?

Nah. It's more just one of the thousands of bullshit made up fees Bell uses against you.

Such as $3/month on your landline for touch tone service.

But hey, you're always welcome to use a rotary phone if you don't like it!
(Actually I don't think you're allowed to opt out of touch-tone service, even if you only had a rotary phone. It's just one of the many hidden fees that you have to deal with.)

HAY GUYS. BELL INTERNET, ONLY $31.95 A MONTH!
*plus $4 modem rental fee per month. No you can't buy the modem outright haha what are you stupid?

Bell's "$31.95" internet is actually $45.90 once you wade through the pricing bullshit and mandatory fees.

The "$14.95" landline is $30.93.

This is Canadian Telecom.

less than three fucked around with this message at Dec 24, 2010 around 05:28

8ender
Sep 24, 2003

clown is watching you sleep


less than three posted:

HAY GUYS. BELL INTERNET, ONLY $31.95 A MONTH!
*plus $4 modem rental fee per month. No you can't buy the modem outright haha what are you stupid?

Bell's "$31.95" internet is actually $45.90 once you wade through the pricing bullshit and mandatory fees.

Their website is ridiculous in how much they try to hide this poo poo. If you look at a $31.95/month internet package you're presented with some marketing fluff immediately. If you click "Pricing Details" to see a "price breakdown" you get the real price of that package ($41.95/month) and then it lists all the fantastic discounts you could receive if only you bought their satellite, phone, and mobile services to qualify for it.

At this point there is another link "Full offer details". Only once you click this link are you made aware that the package includes only 25GB of bandwidth per month, and that overages are $2.00/GB thereafter. Also you're signing into a 1 year contract, paying a $29.95 activation fee, and can only cancel with a 30 day notice.

It boggles my mind that the government doesn't seem interested in stopping this, but its pretty much the same thing we used to see with Bell and long distance calls. That bullshit was broken by Sprint and flood of cheap competitors offering flat rate long distance into the market. My only hope is that some ISP finds a way around Bells complete ownership of the infrastructure and starts undercutting them big time to establish themselves.

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

When I worked for Bell Mobility, they forced us to push this poo poo on threat of dicipline/termination.

Tell client "oh hey, we'll give you internet access on your laptop with our USB stick! Device is free and service is only $10 a month!"

The fine print[unspoken]

2 year contract. Max $400 cancellation fee.
You must have another Bell service and bundle it onto our lovely OneBill.
Includes 50MB data. Use anything more and we'll surprise sex you on a sliding scale. (500MB $25 extra, 1GB another $10, next GB another $15, etc.)

Bonzo
Mar 11, 2004



I emailed Teksavvy on the 10th asking about UBB. I just got this reply:

Teksavvy Sales posted:

At the moment, we don't know how UBB will affect our service. We're waiting for our CEO to let us know our next steps.

We'll let you know as soon as we know something.

mik
Oct 15, 2003
oh

I just got an email from Videotron, they're upping my cap to 120gb from 100gb for free, and increasing my upload speed to 2mb (from 1mb) for the 30mb service. Although 120gb is still too low realistically, at least not all big ISPs in Canada have regressive plan changes.

Crumbletron
Jul 21, 2006

KNÆLE.


less than three posted:

Bell's "$31.95" internet is actually $45.90 once you wade through the pricing bullshit and mandatory fees.

I don't know how we worked it out with them, but unless you mean with tax, ours is $40.90 for Fibe 7 with 60GB + the extra 40GB. $46.17 with tax. It's leagues better than what I used to get for almost $50 with Videotron (30GB). The straw that broke the camel's back for Videotron was buying The Force Unleashed on Steam and watching 5/6 of my bandwidth go down in one night.

less than three
Aug 9, 2007

Fire Sights and LED Lights

ESC 2010 Never Forget

Parachute Underwear posted:

I don't know how we worked it out with them, but unless you mean with tax, ours is $40.90 for Fibe 7 with 60GB + the extra 40GB. $46.17 with tax. It's leagues better than what I used to get for almost $50 with Videotron (30GB). The straw that broke the camel's back for Videotron was buying The Force Unleashed on Steam and watching 5/6 of my bandwidth go down in one night.

I was simply going by posted rates.

Much like retention plans for Cellular, it's usually possible to get a better deal. It shouldn't have to be like that, though.

Pivo
Aug 20, 2004


8ender posted:

Depends how savvy and invested you are with the various carriers. I recently scored $78 / month for unlimited local and long distance calling, 6 GB data, visual voicemail, etc from Rogers. Its nice to not worry about minutes anymore. This isn't typical though, and they'll work you for as much as possible if you're a new customer.

WTF? I've been with Rogers for 5 years. I get 500min daytime 500min eve/wknd for local/LD/6gb data/visual voicemail etc but it costs me ~$160 per month after tax. What did you DO!? Since I'm paying so much for so little, I don't know how to downsize. I know long distance is still expensive and that's what kills it for me.

Pivo fucked around with this message at Dec 25, 2010 around 13:39

8ender
Sep 24, 2003

clown is watching you sleep


Pivo posted:

WTF? I've been with Rogers for 5 years. I get 500min daytime 500min eve/wknd for local/LD/6gb data/visual voicemail etc but it costs me ~$160 per month after tax. What did you DO!? Since I'm paying so much for so little, I don't know how to downsize. I know long distance is still expensive and that's what kills it for me.

Like this:

*call Rogers billing*

You: "Hi, I'm using my phone a lot now because of (insert something here) and I like the service but this is costing me too much. My friend has an unlimited minutes plan, I think I need that"

Rogers: "I don't have access to that plan. I can give you (lovely deal)"

You: "I'm sorry this is just too much to pay, I think I might have to cancel if theres no way to bring this bill down"

*Retentions activated*

Rogers: "Let me transfer you to customer relations, they may be able to help you"

*Olde timey barter time*


The Rules:
- Polite polite polite
- You like the service but are paying too much. Do not differ from this
- No yelling, no cursing, no swearing, no Rogers bashing
- If you don't get anywhere then make an excuse and get off the phone and try again later
- The last rule and the first rule are the most important rules

Pivo
Aug 20, 2004


8ender posted:

You: "I'm sorry this is just too much to pay, I think I might have to cancel if theres no way to bring this bill down"

Rogers: "Well, you still have 2 and a half years left on your contract..."

I'm on my third fully subsidized iPhone. They like me heh. I've done this dance before successfully for cable ($120 cable package for $60), but the contract angle is a hard one to counter. I've tried it before.

Pivo fucked around with this message at Dec 25, 2010 around 16:16

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


EoRaptor posted:

I routinely max my Teksavvy cable when using bittorrent, and while Rogers certainly has the ability to implement throttling for TPIA customers, they haven't yet. Switching from Rogers to Teksavvy should remove any traffic shaping currently on your connection.
When I tried to torrent without a VPN it was pointless. Maybe it has something to do with how the last mile is connected or whatever.

Slotducks
Oct 16, 2008

Nobody puts Phil in a corner.


Okay, here's my situation. I live with 5 other people. We're on Cogeco's "Best" internet plan. With the 100g bandwidth up/down limit.

We're blowing right by the 100 gigs within the first week and a half every month.

I know that Bell and Rogers are pretty much the same. Can anyone recommend any other service?

I live in Burlington by the way.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




Are they giving you poo poo? You *should* be covered by their $30 overage fee. Also the top tiered one is 120GB, isn't it?

(not that the extra 20gb would make much a difference)

Since you already have one cable connection you can try hooking up a Teksavvy DSL line and load balancing your traffic out those two through a m0n0wall box or something.

Martytoof fucked around with this message at Dec 26, 2010 around 19:50

Slotducks
Oct 16, 2008

Nobody puts Phil in a corner.


Well, I figure for the last 2 years, we've been blowing through our what used to be called "Unlimited Bandwidth" (which really was 120 gb)cap that they used to call it. That and the internet as of late has been very spotty and I suspect that they're throttling us more and more now.

Just curious is Tekksavvy is reliable enough now in Burlington.

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Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


TekSavvy still sells unlimited cable for something like $55/month last I checked.

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