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I'm in Coquitlam too and just checked again, nada.
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Jan 26, 2011 00:37
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I'm in Port Moody and I don't have it yet either.
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Jan 26, 2011 00:39
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univbee posted:Oh, gently caress my rear end! Don't worry, that's only $1340 in PPU Shaw overages.  Welp, guess it's time to give TekSavvy or Telus a call.
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Jan 26, 2011 00:47
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What on Earth are you guys doing? Only in times when I was insanely bored have I ever cracked 150GB. Don't get me wrong though, I'm as pissed as you are. This ruling completely disregards that Rogers/Bell will gladly serve you all the bits you want provided you're paying for content they own and getting it over their service. Somehow the variable cost jumps a million percent as soon as they connect to a peer.
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Jan 26, 2011 01:05
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Shumagorath posted:What on Earth are you guys doing? Only in times when I was insanely bored have I ever cracked 150GB. As for what I'm doing, let's see if I can compile: Probably about 200+ gigs worth of Steam downloads, covering the English, French and Japanese versions of games (normally I wouldn't go this crazy, but I was stockpiling for this moment). The wife's been watching Heroes on Netflix, which means probably about 35 gigs a season (it's in HD) times 2 seasons, so 70 gigs. This is on top of other Netflix stuff we've watched (a dozen or so movies, again at roughly 2 gigs each); we probably cracked 100 gigs of usage with Netflix alone. Downloaded some Linux ISOs (yes, seriously), a few different versions, maybe 20 gigs' worth? This is just off the top of my head. Oh, just realized, a Brazzers (porn site) membership would fill this in nicely, they post 3 or 4 new videos a day, at 1080p, which would total 10-15 gigs of new content per day if you downloaded it in its highest quality.
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Jan 26, 2011 01:58
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I collect all my porn in glorious 1080p in case the internet dies
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Jan 26, 2011 02:03
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A political party whose goal is to reform the CRTC would gain alot of traction right about now.
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Jan 26, 2011 02:24
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I'm hoping Netflix, Sony, Microsoft, Apple, hell even a few porn sites, basically anyone who provides content will decide to sue for being rendered uncompetitive in the face of the large ISP's own unlimited content.
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Jan 26, 2011 02:25
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Shumagorath posted:I'm hoping Netflix, Sony, Microsoft, Apple, hell even a few porn sites, basically anyone who provides content will decide to sue for being rendered uncompetitive in the face of the large ISP's own unlimited content. This is a great idea and I hope it gets some traction. What we really need is a domestic digital content provider that is getting screwed by these caps, but I can't think of any right now. Anyone? These would probably do double damage to the ISPs, their "canadian-ness" is something they could potentially whine about with all the evil foreign content providers breathing down their necks. Also having the Brazzers CEO appear before a commons committee would be pretty awesome.
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Jan 26, 2011 02:27
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When they had the Olympics, CBC would have been a great candidate. Guess who owns those rights now!
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Jan 26, 2011 02:42
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I don't know who's rolled into CTVGlobeMedia but I watch a lot of stuff on discovery.ca and sites like that. I always hate knowing that's eating into my cap. This stuff is probably available on Cogeco's on-demand thing but their on demand system is utter poo poo so I can't find anything useful.
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Jan 26, 2011 02:47
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less than three posted:It's on mine, Vancouver proper. I think it only shows up if you've gone over your bandwidth allowance.
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Jan 26, 2011 04:02
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Having visited Canada many times, i've always admired your country and sometimes i just want to move there (gently caress the USA), but dear God your internet sucks. This is exactly why Internet should be a highly regulated monopoly.
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Jan 26, 2011 04:26
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If the caps around here(eastcoast) drop to ~60GB/month I'm going back to 1Mbit/s or whatever I can get cheap besides dial-up. Eastlink has advertised 250Gb/month on some plans and I've yet to see anything on Aliant besides the new fiberop plans. Speaking of fiberop they had a big press release saying that a lot of Nova Scotia would be covered with fiber services of 170Mbit/s down / 30Mbit/s up. This will be fantastic that users can hit quota in less then an hour!
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Jan 26, 2011 04:36
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What's Bell's "uninsured" Fibe cap? 60GB? That's not going to last long at 25Mbps. In a strange twist of fate, today is the day I discovered I still get full-speed uploads on torrents through Teksavvy without using my VPN. I'll still keep it around for Pandora access though. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 04:37
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This is rediculous. I am thankful to have Teksavvy cable now and what is for now at least an unlimited cap.
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Jan 26, 2011 04:48
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Do what we did in Australia in the early days - create your own "darknet". We had a tonne of enthusiasts put up their own WIFI masts and they created their own cap free wifi WAN that a lot of people ended up joining with simple directional antenna (think pringle can set ups for the cheapos, and real antennas for the people with dignity) No prizes for realising it was for city wide free P2P.
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Jan 26, 2011 05:01
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marketingman posted:Do what we did in Australia in the early days - create your own "darknet". We had a tonne of enthusiasts put up their own WIFI masts and they created their own cap free wifi WAN that a lot of people ended up joining with simple directional antenna (think pringle can set ups for the cheapos, and real antennas for the people with dignity) I had a moment earlier today where I thought about creating a "ripplenet", where appropriately configured routers could obtain cap data from other hosts and route internet access through systems who had not been too close to their caps, enabling under-utilizers to contribute to other users. But then I realized that people would distribute firmware designed to circumvent the system or otherwise wreck other user's caps. A "darknet" peer-to-peer system would be a pretty cool project though.
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Jan 26, 2011 05:39
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Meanwhile all the political parties argue over stupid, irrelevant poo poo.
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Jan 26, 2011 05:46
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The Globe has reversed it's misinformed, idiot position from yesterday: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/tech-news/usage-based-internet-ruling-draws-fire/article1882339/ They now recognise the negative effect on legitimate services though they don't explicitly understand how stupid the "discount" is. What scares me is this, though it could still be bad journalism: quote:Large providers have long argued that network space, especially in wireless, is scarce and hence valuable in a world where everyone is streaming or downloading bandwidth-intensive video. ...could you imagine if they convinced the CRTC using "wireless saturation" as a rationale for bandwidth caps and metering? teethgrinder fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 15:19
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Looks like Bell Canada has all the rates up: http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpInt_Access.page Essential Plus: $21.95 Download speed: up to 2 Mbps Upload speed: up to 800 Kbps Internet usage: 2 GB of bandwidth per month Performance: $31.95 Download speed: up to 6 Mbps Upload speed: up to 1 Mbps Internet usage: 25 GB of bandwidth per month Fiber 6: $31.95 Download speed: up to 6 Mbps Upload speed: up to 1 Mbps Internet usage: 25 GB of bandwidth per month Fiber 12: $36.95 Download speed: up to 12 Mbps Upload speed: up to 1 Mbps Internet usage: 50 GB of bandwidth per month Fiber 16: $46.95 Download speed: up to 16 Mbps Upload speed: up to 1 Mbps Internet usage: 75 GB of bandwidth per month Fiber 25: $52.95 Download speed: up to 25 Mbps Upload speed: up to 7 Mbps Internet usage: 75 GB of bandwidth per month For $5/month extra you can add on Usage Insurance plan. The plan gives you 40 GB of extra Internet usage to your service. I cannot find any mention of the billing over cap charges yet.
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Jan 26, 2011 17:39
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Viktor posted:Looks like Bell Canada has all the rates up: http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpInt_Access.page God I loving hate Bell.
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Jan 26, 2011 17:50
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Good lord those caps are absolutely worthless. Even a single person who watches a lot of netflix will be flirting with disaster on a monthly basis. What a goddamn shitshow. Race to the bottom!
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Jan 26, 2011 17:56
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The "official" pricing (the one that all mentioned wholesale discounts are applied against) has not been released. Bell et al have until March 1st to file that with the CRTC - the day UBB comes into effect. What pricing you see now is just earlier documents. Note that there's no debate on that filing, it's just the reference. UBB pricing has nothing to do with the direct actual cost of shoveling bits, but is called an ITMP "Internet Traffic Management Practice" - much like traffic shaping was. If circuit utilization is too high, they just raise the rates, and people will use less. Period. That's how UBB made it through. Traffic shaping failed as everything went encrypted, and it started to interfere with the "golden service" - telephony. In the eyes of the CRTC - the co-incidental items that Bell will make buckets of cash and damage their competitors is moot.
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Jan 26, 2011 18:23
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priznat posted:Good lord those caps are absolutely worthless. Even a single person who watches a lot of netflix will be flirting with disaster on a monthly basis. It's too bad, I'd probably think about signing up for the fibe 25 plan if it wasn't for the cap. Even a 150 or 200 GB cap would probably be fine for me, but what's the point in paying for that kind of speed if I can't use it? I also don't need the other junk they include like the "security advanced" service and the wireless router. At least this seems to be getting some media attention now, maybe that will make something happen.
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Jan 26, 2011 18:36
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Viktor posted:Looks like Bell Canada has all the rates up: http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpInt_Access.page  So I'm paying $30/mth for effectively unlimited but nominally 200 GB, afterward I can get 25 GB for $32/mth, woooooooooooo!! I can reduce my usage drastically, but the main thing is that I live with two other people and we all watch completely different TV hah. At least I've downloaded all my Steam stuff with insanely large installs now.
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Jan 26, 2011 18:38
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unknown posted:The "official" pricing (the one that all mentioned wholesale discounts are applied against) has not been released. Bell et al have until March 1st to file that with the CRTC - the day UBB comes into effect. What pricing you see now is just earlier documents. Note that there's no debate on that filing, it's just the reference. Prices I posted above are retail rates that are currently on their website. quote:That's how UBB made it through. Traffic shaping failed as everything went encrypted, and it started to interfere with the "golden service" - telephony. Traffic shaping works even with encryption. There's a heuristical approach for bittorrent traffic that look at the data (if its unencrypted), that look at the http scrapes (if that's not ran via proxy), and then look at connections/ports. They can pretty much find bittorrent traffic easily because it falls outside of the "norm" of connections. There's no reason for SSL traffic to be ~400KB/s so they could just apply a flow to it.
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Jan 26, 2011 18:40
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The prices you posted are the website prices, those prices are not the ones used in the wholesale rate calculations as they can be changed due to promotions on a daily basis. "Official" retail rates are filed with the CRTC. Everyone: expect notifications from alternative providers today/tomorrow about new pricing! (Normal contracts have 30 day notification clauses for prices changes)
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Jan 26, 2011 18:55
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So under this plan, if you purchased Star Wars The Force Unleashed, World of Warcraft, or Age of Conan digitally (which means less packaged goods and more environmental friendliness) you could have to pay up to $60 in overages. For each game. On top of whatever you pay for it normally. (And a company like Steam can somehow charge $10 for the game license AND unlimited bandwidth to use it). And that's assuming you only download it once. Meanwhile, a New Zealand ISP would only charge you $1 New Zealand per gig over, which translates to something like 70 Canadian cents. WHY ARE WE PAYING TRIPLE WHAT THE WORST DEVELOPED COUNTRY'S INTERNET CHARGES gently caress VV gently caress me, I'd forgotten about that ad campaign. univbee fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 18:56
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univbee posted:WHY ARE WE PAYING TRIPLE WHAT THE WORST DEVELOPED COUNTRY'S INTERNET CHARGES gently caress La vie est Bell.™
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Jan 26, 2011 18:57
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Amusingly Cogeco recently added a "We reserve the right to charge you $10 per 1GB" clause at the bottom of their usual fineprint crap on the package pages and whatnot. It's especially confusing given that the maximum overages are listed at $30 for $1.25 per gigabyte right above it. $10 per 1GB, I hope I am reading this bullshit wrong (very bottom). It was also on my paper bill last month. At $10 per gigabyte on overages without warning it becomes financially neutral to have a lawyer send them a nasty letter if you get that kind of bill. That can be some serious money. The Gunslinger fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 19:07
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The Gunslinger posted:At $10 per gigabyte on overages without warning it becomes financially neutral to have a lawyer send them a nasty letter if you get that kind of bill. That can be some serious money. This part right here is what amazes me. $50-$100 in overages isn't going to bankrupt anybody, but with this system a single Steam game can result in $300 in overages. This happened in Montreal several years ago with VideoTron and their 10 gig/month limit on cable, and if I recall people who took them to court cleaned house pretty nicely.
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Jan 26, 2011 19:21
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That wireless mesh-net type thing is sounding better already. Add in some kind of distributed caching for steam install files and whatnot and hey! I wonder if there is a financial opportunity here if one was to make boxes that would just easily plug in and distribute network load. Probably not, you'd only get a group of hardcore dudes doing it anyway and they'd be all "I can make this myself for less *snort*".
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Jan 26, 2011 19:27
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priznat posted:That wireless mesh-net type thing is sounding better already. Add in some kind of distributed caching for steam install files and whatnot and hey! The trouble with wireless is always latency and reliability. It's fine for the Facebook types but any kind of wireless mesh thing on a wide spread would need some serious coordination, failover planning and a billion other things I am forgetting. quote:This part right here is what amazes me. $50-$100 in overages isn't going to bankrupt anybody, but with this system a single Steam game can result in $300 in overages. This happened in Montreal several years ago with VideoTron and their 10 gig/month limit on cable, and if I recall people who took them to court cleaned house pretty nicely. I would call them first to attempt to clear it up but there is no way I would accept a $250+ cable bill just on principle. I'd make it financially unfeasible for them to collect on it even if that meant going to my lawyer who would probably charge $300-400 to send them a letter about it. Everyone has tolerance limits and $10 per 1GB is going to hit them very quickly.
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Jan 26, 2011 19:31
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Rough calculation chart:pre: Base Overage Excessive
Rate (base to 300G) (300G above)
BW Rate: 25Gig* 1Gig 1Gig
Cost: $x $y $z
Cost formula: $x + ($y*Overage) + ($z*Excessive) = $Total
Where: ($y*Overage) maxes out at $60.
Notes:
- Bandwidth is calculated as the sum of Inbound + Outbound.
- there's two usage rates:
- "overage" which is usage from your base level to 300Gigs
- "excessive" for bandwidth above 300Gigs.
- Base rate can be modified with prebuying "usage insurance" blocks of 40 Gigs (max 3).
unknown fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 19:32
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All it would take is for one of the big provider to stand up and say "hey, we're not gonna be greedy fucks" and go with reasonable caps and throttling for overages rather than charging. Sooooo we're hosed. also, http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en_CA_ON.40-GB-Usage-Insurance-Plan/VasIntInsurance.details you can get an extra 40 gigs for $5. Shaw's $50 internet plan only gives you 60gb here, and $5 gets you an extra 10gb, but they're nice enough to offer a 250gb package of $50. This showed up in my account this morning quote:Shaw's Internet Usage Services are temporarily unavailable. Please try again shortly or view our list of local technical support phone numbers and email addresses if you would like to contact us.
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Jan 26, 2011 19:32
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The Gunslinger posted:The trouble with wireless is always latency and reliability. It's fine for the Facebook types but any kind of wireless mesh thing on a wide spread would need some serious coordination, failover planning and a billion other things I am forgetting. Yah I wouldn't want to be relying on that for gaming or even video streaming, but for something non-time sensitive like bittorrent or steam downloading it'd be alright. It would be a non-trivial thing to figure out all the gotchas though, for sure. Still kind of a nifty idea though! Do you think if people would email Netflix about the concerns if that helps their case if they bring this up to the CRTC? If they can even do that, anyway. I don't know if they have any recourse outside of perhaps an anticompetitive lawsuit. priznat fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 19:34
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unknown posted:The prices you posted are the website prices, those prices are not the ones used in the wholesale rate calculations as they can be changed due to promotions on a daily basis. "Official" retail rates are filed with the CRTC. Correct, sorry I was reading into it that you meant end retail prices have not been updated. The official tariffs could be taken from the Bell Aliant filing tho?
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Jan 26, 2011 19:37
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priznat posted:
Netflix copped out already with some lame PR thing about trusting the user consumption to force ISPs to deal with the issue. We will have to browbeat our politicians into changing this or basically wait a few generations for a less TV reliant, tech-aware public to get sick of being ripped off.
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Jan 26, 2011 19:39
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The Gunslinger posted:Netflix copped out already with some lame PR thing about trusting the user consumption to force ISPs to deal with the issue. We will have to browbeat our politicians into changing this or basically wait a few generations for a less TV reliant, tech-aware public to get sick of being ripped off. Yeah, definitely in addition to contacting MPs etc I was thinking. Like if I emailed netflix saying "I'm afraid I have to cancel the service because x's usage caps would make it too expensive" if they would start actually lobbying or whatever. Going to write my MP tonight I think.
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Jan 26, 2011 19:42
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