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StealthArcher
Jan 10, 2010




Coxswain Balls posted:

I work on the technical side of things, so if you're looking for a real answer you're asking the wrong person. I understand the rationale of usage caps as a way of mitigating saturation, but I still believe there are better ways of doing it that need to be investigated. Here's an old post I made that still applies today.


Take this with a grain of salt, but I've only ever seen us take action on accounts where you consistently go over the stated usage limits by very large amounts, like doubling or tripling it, month after month. And even then, only on really saturated nodes. Just the other day I upgraded someone who was on our most basic bundled plan, which has a 0.5Mbps connection and a 5GB usage limit, and they were hitting the 100GB mark each month and I didn't see any action taken. They were in a smaller town and were getting double what I had upgraded them to after testing it, so that probably had something to do with it, as well.

Standard disclaimer saying that I work for Shaw and that any opinions are my own unless otherwise stated.


Unless the Strathcona area of Edmonton is an especially congested out it's rear end node, this doesn't hold anymore. Going over by about 30GB of our 300GB cap in March for the first time during our tenure incurred a charge.

Unless you're referring to outright cutting the internet, in which case, well yeah I'd loving hope so.

E: And before you immediately ask about why we need Unlimited if we went over once, I moved in in February, and had to immediately pull back like two weeks into March. These guys before didn't pull enough.

StealthArcher fucked around with this message at 20:30 on May 15, 2015

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Coxswain Balls
Jun 4, 2001

The current standard procedure is that if you're consistently going over your usage to the detriment of others in the area, your account will be flagged for the bandwidth management team to give you a call. They'll try to get in touch with you over email/phone and leave voicemails to get in touch, and if there's no contact in a certain period of time, your modem gets temporarily suspended to prompt a call in. What is discussed is methods of cutting down usage, be in intentional or unintentional (eg. a senior whose usage goes from 50GB to 1TB in a month due to malware, open wifi, etc.), and options for upgrading your internet plan if you consistently require that level of usage.

What you've now got me interested in is how you were charged for going over your usage in March. Shaw has no mechanisms in place for UBB, and I've just spoken with our bandwidth management people who confirmed that the only way charges are incurred is with the above procedure involving a service upgrade. If you're okay with PMing me your account, I'd like to take a look at those charges to see what's going on, because that seems highly unusual. I know a lot of our frontline staff would be pissed if something like UBB was rolled out without them knowing, because ultimately it's them who get to deal with the brunt of the fallout, which is no fun without any prior knowledge.

StealthArcher
Jan 10, 2010




Coxswain Balls posted:

The current standard procedure is that if you're consistently going over your usage to the detriment of others in the area, your account will be flagged for the bandwidth management team to give you a call. They'll try to get in touch with you over email/phone and leave voicemails to get in touch, and if there's no contact in a certain period of time, your modem gets temporarily suspended to prompt a call in. What is discussed is methods of cutting down usage, be in intentional or unintentional (eg. a senior whose usage goes from 50GB to 1TB in a month due to malware, open wifi, etc.), and options for upgrading your internet plan if you consistently require that level of usage.

What you've now got me interested in is how you were charged for going over your usage in March. Shaw has no mechanisms in place for UBB, and I've just spoken with our bandwidth management people who confirmed that the only way charges are incurred is with the above procedure involving a service upgrade. If you're okay with PMing me your account, I'd like to take a look at those charges to see what's going on, because that seems highly unusual. I know a lot of our frontline staff would be pissed if something like UBB was rolled out without them knowing, because ultimately it's them who get to deal with the brunt of the fallout, which is no fun without any prior knowledge.

The account is under my roommate, so I'm gonna have to wait for him to be back to get any of that, thanks for at least being patient and explaining stuff though.


Realistically, there's a good chance I'm gonna wind up relenting and just telling them to upgrade our shaw from 25 to 120, because being the guy who's 'to blame' if a third party has an outage is not going to be fun given I sleep during the daytime.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Oxyclean posted:

Any recommendations/tricks to get Rogers to wave over-cap charges? Ask billing nicely/threaten to change providers? Have no idea how I used so much more this month, and when I got the 75%/100% usage warning I thought I was a lot closer the roll over/didn't think I'd end up going quite so far over.

Follow-up on this: Got them to wave the overage fee and upgraded to 100/10 Unlimited package for like 64$ a month. gently caress yes for living in a competitive area.

Mantle
May 15, 2004

Just got the keys to my new Novus-serviced building in Richmond! gently caress the incumbent oligopoly.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

Kenny Logins posted:

Just signed up for Private Internet Access and it's really, really easy to use on both desktop and on iOS. Great recommendation.
I've been checking into this a bit more and I really like the idea. Not so much because of :filez: but I travel and use hotel/public access a lot. While I try not to be super anal and :tinfoil: I'd be lying if I said security never concerned me on a public network.

How are you guys that use this paying for it? I have no problem just doing it in my name with a CC card or paypal, but it looks like they auto-renew paypal which I am not a big fan of. Do they do it on CC too?

e: Nevermind, it looks like if you pay through Amazon you can manage a subscription there and cancel autopayments.

slidebite fucked around with this message at 16:22 on May 17, 2015

Coxswain Balls
Jun 4, 2001

slidebite posted:

I've been checking into this a bit more and I really like the idea. Not so much because of :filez: but I travel and use hotel/public access a lot. While I try not to be super anal and :tinfoil: I'd be lying if I said security never concerned me on a public network.

If your concern is privacy when using public networks, you can do this for free on a lot of home routers that are capable of running an OpenVPN server. I've been doing just that on an Asus router for a few years, and it also gives you the added bonus of being able to securely access resources on your home network.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

Sorry, I don't follow. If I am on a public/hotel network, what is "this" that I can to do to their router?

I'm not on my router when I'm not at home.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 4, 2001

With a VPN service that you pay for, the server is hosted by a third party company. While you're out travelling, your client device makes an encrypted connection to that VPN server; this is the appeal of a VPN service, since even though you're on an insecure wireless hotspot, any traffic between your device and the VPN server cannot be inspected with any great detail.

If having the general public sniffing your traffic on insecure public networks is your primary concern, you can skip the third party server altogether and run the VPN server yourself. In my example, my home router is running the VPN server, so when I'm out in public, the VPN client on my phone is making the encrypted connection to the VPN server running on my home router. The beauty of this is that even while you're not physically at home, you actually are on your home router, and can access things like filesharing and remote desktop stuff through a safe and secure encrypted connection. As far as your phone or laptop is concerned, it's accessing the internet through your home network.

This is why VPNs are used so much in business, because having business-critical information flowing from one jobsite to another through the public internet is overall a terrible idea. This is how when you're working from home, your computer thinks it's connected directly to your workplace intranet.

The third party VPN services people are talking about in this thread are for encrypting all of their traffic so even the home ISP is unable to see what's being done with it, and traffic can't be pinned to one specific person. When a copyright holder is scanning other people who are on a torrent, all they'll see is the IP address of the VPN server that multiple people may be using at any given time, so they don't have anyone to harass unless they go through a lengthy subpoena process with them, which may not even come up with anything usable.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me
The other main benefit of a third party VPN is they usually provide more bandwidth than hosting your own would be able to provide.

Kachunkachunk
Jun 6, 2011
VPN and Proxy services that advertise "no logging" essentially strive to be havens for pirates and so forth, but the base requirements of privacy would be part of the package. But yeah, if you have a big enough home pipe (good upstream bandwidth namely), setting up a VPN server or VM might be useful from time to time. Could even get access to some of your media if you get bored on travels (but consider that Plex and such do a great job without needing a VPN).

If I had to name a good VPN provider, StrongVPN is great, but they are not "logless" provider like I described above; they'd basically ask you to stop if they get subpoena/cease and desist requests. Still, I like them for their performance and availability (tons of servers, L2TP and OpenVPN support, etc), and good latency/choices.

The logless providers have all been very spotty in performance from my limited experience.

WaffleLove
Aug 16, 2007

Kachunkachunk posted:

VPN and Proxy services that advertise "no logging" essentially strive to be havens for pirates and so forth, but the base requirements of privacy would be part of the package. But yeah, if you have a big enough home pipe (good upstream bandwidth namely), setting up a VPN server or VM might be useful from time to time. Could even get access to some of your media if you get bored on travels (but consider that Plex and such do a great job without needing a VPN).

If I had to name a good VPN provider, StrongVPN is great, but they are not "logless" provider like I described above; they'd basically ask you to stop if they get subpoena/cease and desist requests. Still, I like them for their performance and availability (tons of servers, L2TP and OpenVPN support, etc), and good latency/choices.

The logless providers have all been very spotty in performance from my limited experience.

PIA(Private internet access) promises the no logs. I explained that to a friend who also Canadian and keeps up with computer trends more then me. He stated they can't do that in Canada for those servers. I told him "I think they still go gently caress you cause they're American" he said nope still needs to do it. Also I noticed when I tried to use PIA proxies server on a friends computer for utorrent(we wanted to try it so he could just utorrent and no client). EVERY server seemed to of been either offline and or blocked by Shaw. I think they're offline the proxies serves for PIA cause I tried on my internet and same issue with the servers I found.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

WaffleLove posted:

PIA(Private internet access) promises the no logs. I explained that to a friend who also Canadian and keeps up with computer trends more then me. He stated they can't do that in Canada for those servers. I told him "I think they still go gently caress you cause they're American" he said nope still needs to do it. Also I noticed when I tried to use PIA proxies server on a friends computer for utorrent(we wanted to try it so he could just utorrent and no client). EVERY server seemed to of been either offline and or blocked by Shaw. I think they're offline the proxies serves for PIA cause I tried on my internet and same issue with the servers I found.

I think the main benefit of PIA (unless they are flat out lying about this one) is that the logs are useless anyways, as the endpoint IPs are shared. So while they may show that Person A had IP X, and IP X was in a torrent, there would have been 50 other people with IP X, and no way to prove Person A was the one in a torrent.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

Coxswain Balls posted:

With a VPN service that you pay for, the server is hosted by a third party company. While you're out travelling, your client device makes an encrypted connection to that VPN server; this is the appeal of a VPN service, since even though you're on an insecure wireless hotspot, any traffic between your device and the VPN server cannot be inspected with any great detail.

If having the general public sniffing your traffic on insecure public networks is your primary concern, you can skip the third party server altogether and run the VPN server yourself. In my example, my home router is running the VPN server, so when I'm out in public, the VPN client on my phone is making the encrypted connection to the VPN server running on my home router. The beauty of this is that even while you're not physically at home, you actually are on your home router, and can access things like filesharing and remote desktop stuff through a safe and secure encrypted connection. As far as your phone or laptop is concerned, it's accessing the internet through your home network.

This is why VPNs are used so much in business, because having business-critical information flowing from one jobsite to another through the public internet is overall a terrible idea. This is how when you're working from home, your computer thinks it's connected directly to your workplace intranet.

The third party VPN services people are talking about in this thread are for encrypting all of their traffic so even the home ISP is unable to see what's being done with it, and traffic can't be pinned to one specific person. When a copyright holder is scanning other people who are on a torrent, all they'll see is the IP address of the VPN server that multiple people may be using at any given time, so they don't have anyone to harass unless they go through a lengthy subpoena process with them, which may not even come up with anything usable.

Thanks for the reply. Without hijacking this thread any more, is there a link you can recommend so I can read up on setting one up?

Coxswain Balls
Jun 4, 2001

slidebite posted:

Thanks for the reply. Without hijacking this thread any more, is there a link you can recommend so I can read up on setting one up?

It depends on the router you have, although if your stock firmware doesn't have it, you can probably install a custom firmware that does. The stock Asus firmware has OpenVPN included, and SmallNetBuilder seems to have a decent article on getting it set up.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/other/security/security-howto/32538-setting-up-and-using-openvpn-on-asus-routers

I'm using ASUSWRT-Merlin on my router, which is just slightly modified from stock firmware, and I've had no complaints. When I'm out in public it's just a matter of running a small app on my phone/tablet/laptop to tunnel into my home network and it works great. I had no issues doing it from across Canada when I had a 3Mbps upload, including RDPing into my home desktop with a laptop. Granted, I don't do stuff like stream HD content from my home fileserver, so depending on your usage habits you might need more upload.

If it's something you're interested in checking out and want to learn more, the Home Networking thread would probably be a great place to ask more questions.

Kind of related, but I think those copyright trolls have put network security more at the forefront of people's minds. In just the past month tons of people have been calling in with questions about "vee pee enns" and what they do, where to get one, how to set it up and so on; prior to that it'd just be the odd call from someone who is having issues with working from home due to a messed up VPN config, or wondering why all their websites think they're from the states when all they wanted was their American Netflix. Of course, none of this is anything we officially support outside of making sure your internet connection is working, but it's at the point where I might have to write a short training module about it for our frontline staff who aren't as well equipped to answer basic questions about them.

John Capslocke
Jun 5, 2007
If speed matters, you don't want to be doing OpenVPN tunnels on a router unless its a full X86 PC. MIPS processors just cannot keep up with the processing that needs to be done for OVPN encryption.

John Capslocke fucked around with this message at 21:58 on May 19, 2015

Coxswain Balls
Jun 4, 2001

The CRTC is going to be launching a program later today to measure broadband speeds across the country, and to compare with other countries across the world. It's being done by SamKnows, so hopefully we get a detailed document out of it like what the EU got a couple of years ago.

http://measuringbroadbandcanada.com/

Keep an eye on that link for registration to open up. If you're chosen, it looks like the measurement and testing device is a custom TP-Link router.

Blue On Blue
Nov 14, 2012

Ok some of you might enjoy this twist... so I went online and signed up for start.ca for when I move mid June

I'm with teksavvy right now , but wanted to try out a different provider.

Yesterday a rep from start called me to say, they don't have access to my new building, as it has FTTH and as such Rogers has locked it down completely

I guess this is rogers' latest move to push out the little guys trying to squeeze a peice of the market ?

Does anyone have experience with this , and am I now stuck with signing up for rogers?

I used to have rogers ages ago , but got sick of their usage caps and pretty medicore speeds for the amount of money they charge

John Capslocke
Jun 5, 2007

Sappo569 posted:

Ok some of you might enjoy this twist... so I went online and signed up for start.ca for when I move mid June

I'm with teksavvy right now , but wanted to try out a different provider.

Yesterday a rep from start called me to say, they don't have access to my new building, as it has FTTH and as such Rogers has locked it down completely

I guess this is rogers' latest move to push out the little guys trying to squeeze a peice of the market ?

Does anyone have experience with this , and am I now stuck with signing up for rogers?

I used to have rogers ages ago , but got sick of their usage caps and pretty medicore speeds for the amount of money they charge

If you don't have traditional copper phone line to use DSL, then yes, you are stuck using whoever owns the fibre.

CRTC hasn't mandated it be a tariffed service, so it's hands off for TPIA (I think Cogeco willingly allows access? Not that it helps you)

DariusLikewise
Oct 4, 2008

You wore that on Halloween?
Last time I checked Rogers looked like they had some pretty decent plans, including some unlimited stuff. I've only used them for cell phone service though I dropped them like a rock after some questionable billing poo poo.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Yeah, as I mentioned earlier I got the 100/10 Unlimited, it's pretty nice but make the gently caress sure you get a proper router and put the dumb rocket modem in gateway mode. It was causing my games to drop connection in an odd way. I don't get why the thing has so much functionality if it can't even get simple things right.

Turbo Fondant
Oct 25, 2010

Okay what the gently caress? Apparently I can't get Teksavvy VDSL service here even though Telus is showing VDSL as available here on their end (I'm using Telus' legacy 6mbps ADSL right now). Is this a case of them stonewalling TS? I can't even upgrade to Telus VDSL as that would mean switching back to that terrible Actiontec that doesn't let me use my own router (I still have the Actiontec, but I went out and bought a DSL520B and a good router when I got sick of that shitpile), and I can't switch to cable internet without pulling new coax through the walls because I switched to OTA TV and all my existing coax is now hooked up to an antenna (and I don't like cable internet anyway)
Not sure what to do here. After cutting cable I'm going to be using the internet a hell of a lot more, and this connection was already struggling before.

John Capslocke
Jun 5, 2007

Tommychu posted:

Okay what the gently caress? Apparently I can't get Teksavvy VDSL service here even though Telus is showing VDSL as available here on their end (I'm using Telus' legacy 6mbps ADSL right now). Is this a case of them stonewalling TS? I can't even upgrade to Telus VDSL as that would mean switching back to that terrible Actiontec that doesn't let me use my own router (I still have the Actiontec, but I went out and bought a DSL520B and a good router when I got sick of that shitpile), and I can't switch to cable internet without pulling new coax through the walls because I switched to OTA TV and all my existing coax is now hooked up to an antenna (and I don't like cable internet anyway)
Not sure what to do here. After cutting cable I'm going to be using the internet a hell of a lot more, and this connection was already struggling before.

If you're just using their site to check for qualifications, call-in/post in their direct forums, their database is often wrong more than it is right, at least in Ontario. It's also possible that Telus has to do pair-bonding to give you adequate speeds, which TPIA do not have access to.

Turbo Fondant
Oct 25, 2010

37th Chamber posted:

If you're just using their site to check for qualifications, call-in/post in their direct forums, their database is often wrong more than it is right, at least in Ontario. It's also possible that Telus has to do pair-bonding to give you adequate speeds, which TPIA do not have access to.

Actually their site said I can switch but the rep I talked to said they have no DSL service here whatsoever- not even the 6mbps ADSL (sorry, forgot to mention that)
Pair-bonding is pretty likely since my neighborhood is old and low-income.
I guess I can put my router in the Actiontec's DMZ to avoid double-NAT but it still sucks rear end as a modem- and Telus is charging a good $15/mo more than TS for the same speed and half the cap. :sigh:

John Capslocke
Jun 5, 2007

Tommychu posted:

Actually their site said I can switch but the rep I talked to said they have no DSL service here whatsoever- not even the 6mbps ADSL (sorry, forgot to mention that)
Pair-bonding is pretty likely since my neighborhood is old and low-income.
I guess I can put my router in the Actiontec's DMZ to avoid double-NAT but it still sucks rear end as a modem- and Telus is charging a good $15/mo more than TS for the same speed and half the cap. :sigh:

If you have ADSL service already and they claim they can't even offer it, that's pretty suspicious. Unless Telus operates differently than Bell, the offerings should be same between incumbent and TPIA (barring bonding, or FTTH). I suggest posting on their direct forums on DSLReports to get that checked again, the online crew tends to be a bit more useful than the phone crew.

No bridge mode with the Actiontec? Even if you DMZ your desired router on your Actiontec, you'll still experience double-NAT issues. With Telus any VDSL2 compliant modem works, a lot of people really like the Huawei HG610/612, it's a $30-40 modem/router combo out of China, but sports a true bridge mode. Someone has a guide here getting it working in Telus-land: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28181084-DSL-Huawei-HG610-works-in-Telusland

Turbo Fondant
Oct 25, 2010

37th Chamber posted:

No bridge mode with the Actiontec?

Nope. Telus' custom firmware has a firewall that blocks ports used by VPNs and other Things Telus Doesn't Want You To Do and bridge mode would bypass that, so they disabled bridge mode.
Posted in Teksavvy's own forum about it (it's the same guys, but without the 'your post must have account info rule- does me no good when I don't have an account yet), here's hoping the phone guy hosed up.
Good call on the Huawei. I'll probably pick one up no matter who gets my account, it should work on TS as well and their stock Zyxel is a little steep.

XYZ
Aug 31, 2001

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/bell-media-president-urges-behavioural-shift-to-prevent-stealing/article24783094/

quote:

Accessing U.S. Netflix is ‘stealing,’ new Bell Media president says

loving :laffo:

quote:

Ms. Turcke emphasized that no one producing content works for free, and argued: “We have to work together as an industry to make sure people understand the value of creative content.”

But she called it a “cop out” to look to the federal government or the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) to solve the problem and said the industry should instead promote behavioural change.

“We have to get engaged and tell people they are stealing,” she said, bemoaning the fact that even mainstream newspapers feature “how-to” articles instructing readers on “how to get around copyright law.”

Get ready for more tone-deaf "You wouldn't steal a car"-esque PSA's. This industry is never going to get it huh?

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


The whole article is a goldmine. Her daughter was using a VPN.

quote:

“She is 15 … and she was stealing,” Ms. Turcke told an audience at the Canadian Telecom Summit in Toronto during a lunchtime speech. “Suffice to say, there is no more VPNing.”

Yeah I'm sure that will last.

quote:

..distinction between national borders is not something our consumers are willing to tolerate. It is enough to drive anyone to the dreaded Netflix. Legally or illegally.”

However, Ms. Turcke stopped short of saying the company would make CraveTV available to anyone in Canada who wanted to subscribe to it.

"We know the problem and the solution to it, but make no effort to rectify and would rather to just complain."

quote:

This industry is never going to get it huh?

They really don't want to. It's literally the Napster thing all over again. Piracy happens, company steps in to meet demand for (legal) digital distribution while everyone else throws a fit that their old business model doesn't work anymore and the rules should be changed to suit them.

Oxyclean fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jun 4, 2015

Zigmidge
May 12, 2002

Exsqueeze me, why the sour face? I'm here to lemon aid you. Let's juice it.
This is my favourite part because it pre-empts the rest of the article. It was a good place to put this statement that wraps it all up nicely before we even get to her choice quotes:

quote:

but revealed no plans to open the company’s CraveTV video streaming service to non-television subscribers.

Shumagorath
Jun 6, 2001
With how much Bell is trying to ram CraveTV down everyone's throats it's amazing that they're not offering it as a cable replacement. What kind of market share and coverage does Bell have in TV anyway? They've had CP24 anchors reading ads for it as news items but most of the people watching it couldn't pay for it if they tried. Meanwhile they have all the HBO programming locked up so HBO can't make money off me for Go.

What an awful company.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me
They probably have the deluded idea that their CraveTV offerings will be SO compelling, they will get people to switch phone, internet, and TV subscriptions to Bell to get it.

John Capslocke
Jun 5, 2007

Skandranon posted:

They probably have the deluded idea that their CraveTV offerings will be SO compelling, they will get people to switch phone, internet, and TV subscriptions to Bell to get it.

I want whatever drugs they are on, where they think ~$60/mo for Crave access is remotely competitive to Netflix's $9/mo

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007

I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

:canada:

XYZ posted:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/bell-media-president-urges-behavioural-shift-to-prevent-stealing/article24783094/

loving :laffo:
“We have to get engaged and tell people they are stealing,” she said, bemoaning the fact that even mainstream newspapers feature “how-to” articles instructing readers on “how to get around copyright law.”


Hey.

Hey, telecoms industry.

So many people in Canada loving hates your guts that media you don't control are openly against you.

Nationalise the telcos.
End the Cartel.
Rogers delenda est.

Shumagorath
Jun 6, 2001

37th Chamber posted:

I want whatever drugs they are on, where they think ~$60/mo for Crave access is remotely competitive to Netflix's $9/mo
Their strategy is to lock up enough programming that others will starve, but I guess Turcke also banned Netflix in her house and hasn't seen Daredevil or Marco Polo.

I haven't set up my latest VPN service since leaving StrongVPN, but is US Netflix even that much better anymore? I remember it had a different movie selection but definitely not a superset.

Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jun 4, 2015

John Capslocke
Jun 5, 2007

Shumagorath posted:

Their strategy is to lock up enough programming that others will starve, but I guess Turcke also banned Netflix in her house and hasn't seen Daredevil or Marco Polo.
CRTC told them to :getout: with that, both Shomi and Crave have to be open to the general public and not just their subscribers. Can't wait to see the non-subscriber costs though.

Shumagorath posted:

I haven't set up my latest VPN service since leaving StrongVPN, but is US Netflix even that much better anymore? I remember it had a different movie selection but definitely not a superset.
The Canadian library has gotten much better since the concept of region-switching hit it off, but now it's less "who has more/better" and more "who has the license for content I like". With my DNS service I've switched to regions across the globe to cherry pick movies/series.

John Capslocke fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jun 4, 2015

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me
They really need to get their heads out of their asses. The longer they take to do that, the more capable people will be at using things like VPNs, etc, to get what they want without paying them. Once that investment in knowledge & infrastructure is in place, people are much less likely to go back, even if they DO care about supporting artists.

mewse
May 2, 2006

When can I expect my peg leg and eye patch for being a geo-pirate

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

💥💥🤯💥💥
Gotta nuke something
Media Conlgomerate - "You wouldn't steal a car would you?"
Everyone - "Of course not!"
Media Conglomerate - "You see, people know it's wrong. Even if it was like digital media, and you could steal a car instantly, with no effort on your part, and there was almost zero chance you'd get caught, and even if you did you'd basically just get a letter saying you've been a naughty boy..."
Everyone - "Wait, no, if it was like that we'd definitely steal a car. Definitely."
Media Conglomerate - "Ohhh...... uhhhhh..... EVERYONE LOOK AWAY! WE'VE UPPED YOUR BANDWITH BY 5mbs! STAY PLACATED FOR ANOTHER 5 YEARS!"

mewse
May 2, 2006

If you don't obey the geographical restrictions that your giant ISP cartel agreed to with the giant global media cartels, you are a drat stinky criminal!!

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Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


Having the licensing payments get to the artist via a different route is literally stealing food from the mouths of children.

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