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Nitr0 posted:Good question. Perhaps you should talk to your MP. Otherwise, all you're doing by blaming the government is sounding like one of those idiot lolbs who thinks that blaming the government is some kind of get-out-of-jail-free card for corporate malfeasance. And I'm sure you wouldn't want to do THAT. Nitr0 posted:A nice link from Cisco that I grabbed from another ISP forum I frequent. drcru posted:Do people watch George Strombo still? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rUsRCyS6PU (If embedding in this thread is a problem, mods, let me know and I'll pull it.) Nomenklatura fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jan 29, 2011 |
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Jan 29, 2011 00:46
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Nitr0 posted:A nice link from Cisco that I grabbed from another ISP forum I frequent. What's more interesting is the upstream in residential has been decreasing over the past four years. quote:The application mix of upstream traffic has shifted so that while over 70 percent of upstream traffic was due to P2P in early 2007, today less than 60 percent of upstream is P2P. The slack has been taken up by the growth of video in the upstream. This is pretty shocking to me as P2P was always the goto blame for bandwidth consumption. So the biggest consumers of bandwidth that has exploded is streaming video. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of what traffic was sourced to local CDN devices as now its up to the ISP/CDN/providers to play ball.
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Jan 29, 2011 01:35
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Nitr0 posted:Maybe they're going to use that additional revenue to upgrade! :x
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Jan 29, 2011 01:50
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cowofwar posted:You just posted a quote saying that Telus is dumping $500,000,000 into some useless wireless services. If their backend needed upgrades it would get priority. The fact that they're spending infrastructure money on wireless services suggests that they have tons of excess capacity on the wired end. Their wireless and wireline are tied hand in hand. How do you think those towers are being fed? Nomenklatura posted:Wait, weren't you just talking about how "Canada is different?" It is, but internet traffic will become fairly consistent now that more streaming video content is being allowed on Netflix, iTunes, etc and more and more people switch their cable and dsl services for online streaming video. Nitr0 fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Jan 29, 2011 |
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Jan 29, 2011 02:19
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cowofwar posted:You just posted a quote saying that Telus is dumping $500,000,000 into some useless wireless services. If their backend needed upgrades it would get priority. The fact that they're spending infrastructure money on wireless services suggests that they have tons of excess capacity on the wired end. That's another reason why this bothers me; this could simply be a way of pushing people onto wireless where they can REALLY gently caress you. Nitr0 posted:Their wireless and wireline are tied hand in hand. How do you think those towers are being fed? (Come on. You can do better than this.) quote:It is, but internet traffic will become fairly consistent now that more streaming video content is being allowed on Netflix, iTunes, etc and more and more people switch their cable and dsl services for online streaming video.
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Jan 29, 2011 04:15
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Nomenklatura posted:(And premium differentiated services, like Facebook et al.) Wait, they're actually doing that up there on top of still having roaming charges for leaving your "home area" and charging extra for calling long distance on a cell phone (both of which have been gone from all major US carriers for a decade, I might add)?
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Jan 29, 2011 05:22
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Teksavvy has their grandfathered rates up. Teksavvy UBB FAQ In Ontario, you get flipped to a generic DSL plan and can buy up to three 40GB blocks at $4.75 each, and $55 buys a 275GB block. Bandwidth that isn't "insured" costs $1.90/GB. The tone of the TSI posters on DSLReports is that TSI has practically gone non-profit, with slim profit margins, while Bell has a few different outs that enable them to offer discounted plans to their retail customers. So we're going from unlimited to a 145GB cap. We've typically use about 300GB per month, and we'll be paying $15 more for less. I sorted out some connection problems earlier this month so we can snarf down as much as we can get as quickly as possible between now and then. Once the caps hit, I'll be throttling at home to ensure we're not going over. Part of teh silver lining comes from Teksavvy's announcement of a VOIP service. I believe they offered something like this a while back, but discontinued it shortly thereafter. Anyway, we pay Bell something like $22.50 of our $32 Internet bill to provide the connection, and we're paying for a phone line that we don't use very often. In effect we're paying bell about $50/month so they can pay their lawyers to gently caress us. Whimsy fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jan 29, 2011 |
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Jan 29, 2011 20:30
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A "grandfathered user" is someone that's been a continuous user on the same line since Feb. 1, 2007, holy gently caress. I've moved since then  Guess there's no loss in me moving to cable ASAP. That document is awfully confusing though with all the options. I can't believe what a clusterfuck this situation is.
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Jan 29, 2011 20:57
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TekSavvy is too good for this world 
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Jan 29, 2011 20:57
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There's no comprehensive list of Canadian ISPs by region and what they offer, is there? The only options I know of in Winnipeg are Shaw and MTS and as far as I can tell they're basically the same.
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Jan 29, 2011 21:57
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http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r25187382-New-Rogers-TPIA-rates-UBB-by-July-1 Rogers Ultra-Lite Service: 2GBs cap 20$ 5$ per gig over. I think this is only a proposal, but poo poo, I've never seen a scam that bad. Who isn't going to go over 2GB in a month? Unless you only check your mail a few times a month, the flat fee of 20$ is still really high.
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Jan 29, 2011 23:49
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With the anti-greed movement gaining steam, hopefully the smaller ISPs can weather the storm and live long enough to see some sort of consumer protections enacted.
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Jan 30, 2011 01:57
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Oxyclean posted:http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r25187382-New-Rogers-TPIA-rates-UBB-by-July-1 I used to live in the Yukon where nwtel(Bell) has a monopoly. http://www.nwtel.ca/personal/internet/dsl/dsl-lite/ These rates have been standard for years. Worst ive ever seen ever anywhere on the planet.
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Jan 30, 2011 02:00
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Joink posted:I used to live in the Yukon where nwtel(Bell) has a monopoly. http://www.nwtel.ca/personal/internet/dsl/dsl-lite/ To be fair: that's a very remote area. If I'm not mistaken a lot of the actual backhaul to rest of the internet from both Alaska and The Yukon and Northwest Territories is going over satellite even if your actual connection is provided by DSL or cable. Having competition wouldn't really help anything there, there are a whole host of cost issues from providing service to those kinds of areas that are simply unavoidable.
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Jan 30, 2011 02:04
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8ender posted:Honestly I wish that the independents around here would band together and build some sort of alternate infrastructure but I suspect they just don't have the resources to do it yet. skidooer fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Jan 30, 2011 |
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Jan 30, 2011 02:18
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Chronicler of Dongs posted:There's no comprehensive list of Canadian ISPs by region and what they offer, is there? The only options I know of in Winnipeg are Shaw and MTS and as far as I can tell they're basically the same. MTS was with the smaller ISPs to fight this change, and I haven't seen anything that states MTS will be switching to UBB yet. If there's info, let me know, because I'm too worried to look. 
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Jan 30, 2011 03:23
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skidooer posted:I know someone who is on the board of directors for one of those independents. He says that the company does not want to go to usage-based billing, but they'll be out of business if they don't. Netflix and the like are killing them. They're in the midst of upgrading their equipment to support usage-based billing. I'm confused by this post. Netflix is killing who and how?
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Jan 30, 2011 03:52
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TO UNDERAGE GYMNASTS
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Argh, this is hosed up. I've been with Teksavvy since 2006 on the same stupid old 5mb DSL and because I moved in 2009 I'm not eligible for the "grandfathering" plan and I'm getting the new 25gb cap. Really drat aggravating. I run a business out of my house on the side so I'm looking into Teksavvy Business DSL, which is currently uncapped and apparently will only get caps of 300gb in the future. Might be my ticket out. I'll be paying $60 / month for a 6mb connection in 2011. Welcome to the new Canadian internet. Edit: Netflix already doubting its future in Canada: http://business.financialpost.com/2011/01/27/crtc-petitioned-to-stop-usage-based-billing-as-netflix-questions-its-canadian-future/ I just bought a Boxee box just for Netflix 
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Jan 30, 2011 04:03
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Dudebro posted:I'm confused by this post. Netflix is killing who and how? They don't get to blame high usage on illegal piracy now, so Netflix is evil. Again, those small ISPs could simply throttle connections to maintain their network!
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Jan 30, 2011 04:27
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madprocess posted:To be fair: that's a very remote area. If I'm not mistaken a lot of the actual backhaul to rest of the internet from both Alaska and The Yukon and Northwest Territories is going over satellite even if your actual connection is provided by DSL or cable. While I would agree with what you said, I looked into what Alaskans pay for highspeed internet, and know for a fact that the gov't payed for a lot of fibre to go down in the Yukon when I lived up there. The rates have only gone up since early last decade when I first got my dsl line. No matter how you shake it, $10/gb in overage charges is outrageous.
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Jan 30, 2011 05:34
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8ender posted:I run a business out of my house on the side so I'm looking into Teksavvy Business DSL, which is currently uncapped and apparently will only get caps of 300gb in the future. Might be my ticket out. I'll be paying $60 / month for a 6mb connection in 2011. Welcome to the new Canadian internet. I'm exactly in the same boat. I guess I'll be calling them on Monday. Can you let us know how it turned out for you?
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Jan 30, 2011 06:13
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God I loving hate the CRTC. There can't be any outside competition because we have to keep it Canadian enough. But at the same time, the Canadian companies have it great because of no outside competition. They've got it both ways. Protectionism keeps the competition out so we can keep our content "Canadian enough" but at the same time "Canadian enough" means the ability to bend over and be forced to listen to lovely music, be forced to choose between one of the big three who offer nothing in the cellular business and now being forced to accept [even indirectly through independent dealers] usage based billing because they're being strongarmed into it as well. If the CRTC was really concerned with protecting Canadian interests, usage based billing being forced on smaller 100% Canadian owned companies wouldn't be allowed. I realize this is a relatively broad way of looking at it, but it's really hard not to be angry about. Between our god awful cell phone plans, our lovely Canadian [Nickelback, Bryan Adams] content being forced down our throats on TV, medicore low level TV shows [Little Mosque, Corner Gas] and controlling of content [not letting in Fox News even if I would never watch it] to this. It's absolutely ridiculous and I can't imagine how people are more concerned with stupid crap like oh god Harper is going to turn us into a George Bush government with his Republican cronies. It's embarrassing to be Canadian sometimes. This is one of those times. I've never been so apathetic about politics when no major political party is willing to take this issue on seriously. I suppose the NDP has a bird in the pond but they're the first to support Canadian funding for Canadian low-level content.
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Jan 30, 2011 06:27
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Junubee posted:MTS was with the smaller ISPs to fight this change, and I haven't seen anything that states MTS will be switching to UBB yet. If there's info, let me know, because I'm too worried to look. I emailed them a few days ago asking if they plan to implement UBB and this was the response they gave me quote:MTS has discussed the possibility of also implementing a Cap on usage So it's not really conclusive, but seems probable. Hopefully they see a chance to get some more customers and offer something like a 100gb cap to Shaw's 60. It's just so frustrating that we are being completely hosed over and nobody else either gives a poo poo or even knows about it.
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Jan 30, 2011 06:51
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Chronicler of Dongs posted:It's just so frustrating that we are being completely hosed over and nobody else either gives a poo poo or even knows about it. I'm hoping Netflix gets a bit more vocal about their disdain for this UBB crap. They're one of the only high profile companies who have spoken out about it. The only catch is they're major competition with the ISPs who provide on demand video service which is dwindling in popularity as Netflix gets more popular. It makes a really lovely situation even worse because they can come across as sour grapes to the public if Shaw/Telus/Bell spin it that way, and people will believe that horse poo poo too. Netflix is getting considerably more popular in Canada as real content [read: not Canadian content] pulls in more and more. I can honestly say I don't know anyone who rents movies anymore unless they aren't available on Netflix.
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Jan 30, 2011 07:02
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Oxyclean posted:http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r25187382-New-Rogers-TPIA-rates-UBB-by-July-1 It's proof positive that UBB has nothing to do with ITMP at all. It's just a monopoly squeezing us suckers. fishmech posted:Wait, they're actually doing that up there on top of still having roaming charges for leaving your "home area" and charging extra for calling long distance on a cell phone (both of which have been gone from all major US carriers for a decade, I might add)? A lot of that has to do with the directions given the CRTC by Maxime Bernier back when he was Industry Minister, but the lion's share is simply because our telecom monopolies were never broken up like their American counterparts. They have a death grip on anything that has to do with media or communications, and they're becoming more vertically integrated by the moment. It's pathetic. (Well, that, and because the Canadian business community could give a poo poo about broadband connectivity, because they've enthusiastically redirected our economy into digging poo poo out of the ground and selling it abroad for practically nothing. You don't need good telecommunications for that. You just need big trucks, big pipelines, and a population that shuts up and does what it's loving told.) Nomenklatura fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Jan 30, 2011 |
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Jan 30, 2011 07:11
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The story about the girl out of Montreal was a start, but a few more stories about Grandma Joe and her $2000 internet bill due to unsecured wireless will hopefully start to grab people's attention. Or better yet, a Conservative or Liberal MP getting an absurdly high bill.
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Jan 30, 2011 07:17
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Normally, I'm opposed to protests (probably because I don't care enough about most things), but damnit, now I know how the hippies feel when they protest for poo poo they care about. Mid post edit: Hahaha, I was going to post a link to facebook protest against UBB page, but it has since been cancelled. Maybe a new page is up somewhere.
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Jan 30, 2011 07:19
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March 2011: CRTC mandates that 20% of all internet traffic in Canada be Canadian Content. This traffic will only count as half the normal bandwidth cost to the user.
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Jan 30, 2011 07:21
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Nomenklatura posted:A lot of that has to do with the directions given the CRTC by Maxime Bernier back when he was Industry Minister, but the lion's share is simply because our telecom monopolies were never broken up like their American counterparts. They have a death grip on anything that has to do with media or communications, and they're becoming more vertically integrated by the moment. It's pathetic. You have to admit that "breakup" in the US hasn't been very effective (these don't show the fact that AT&T itself retained ownership of nearly all long-distance telecom lines they owned before the breakup, by the way):   Live in Pennslyvania? Basically no choice for standard phone but Verizon. Wyoming? Qwest. California? AT&T. There's 0 competition between these carriers of course for actual home phone service and for the most part for DSL Now of course, pretty much anywhere you live in America you have the choice between the mandated monopoly cable provider or DSL from either the big phone company, or 3 or 4 other companies that provide the exact same service for almost exactly the same price off DSLAMs in the central office. Of course, somehow, the FCC doesn't directly bend over and take it like the CRTC apparently does. Or maybe every company involved is bribing enough against things bad for them but good for others that they never get the special treatment they want, who knows. And as far as cable goes,  (larger at http://www.mediabiz.com/media/content/Top10_Cable_Footprints.pdf if you want) This doesn't directly show it but to show the same areas covered say 10 years ago this would have to be like the top 100 cable operators. Glory of mergers!
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Jan 30, 2011 07:49
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madprocess posted:March 2011: That's A LOT of porn.
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Jan 30, 2011 09:01
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madprocess posted:March 2011: April 2011: CRTC mandates that local phone call usage be capped and excess usage will incur charges based on a nominal rate set by the major telcos. This is due to local calling "hogs" that spend too much time on the phone. The first 100 minutes of local calling per month is included in the price of each landline, after which an overage charge of $2.00 per minute will be levied. This overage will be extended to all wholesale customers that sell landline phone services.
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Jan 30, 2011 09:13
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Dudebro posted:I'm confused by this post. Netflix is killing who and how? Also, the business is subscriber owned, so it is kind of impossible for them to be doing it for the wild profits. If there are any, it goes right back to the subscriber anyway. skidooer fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jan 30, 2011 |
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Jan 30, 2011 17:38
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Dudebro posted:Normally, I'm opposed to protests (probably because I don't care enough about most things), but damnit, now I know how the hippies feel when they protest for poo poo they care about. Yeah, those drat hippies and their anti-war anti-gobalization protests... but damnit, you better not touch my porn! 
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Jan 30, 2011 18:03
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skidooer posted:The ISP. It is a small rural ISP where I suspect 50 year old farmers were not doing a lot of torrenting before, but there is a good chance they are using Netflix now. Their internet business was already a loss leader offset by the profit from telephone subscriptions; the recent increase in data use is just making it that much more difficult for them. Oh, I thought you were talking about a company like Teksavvy. What you described doesn't sound like the typical independent, or is it? What Bell is doing is truly stupid. Market forces can't dictate the direction the Internet will go in this environment so nothing makes sense to anyone unless you're a suit at one of those telcoms.
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Jan 30, 2011 18:46
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skidooer posted:The ISP. It is a small rural ISP where I suspect 50 year old farmers were not doing a lot of torrenting before, but there is a good chance they are using Netflix now. Their internet business was already a loss leader offset by the profit from telephone subscriptions; the recent increase in data use is just making it that much more difficult for them. That ISP is probably getting their bandwidth and such supplied by one of the big operators aren't they? They're probably trying to put the squeeze on that little ISP just the way they do it on their own customers.
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Jan 30, 2011 19:06
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Dudebro posted:Oh, I thought you were talking about a company like Teksavvy. What you described doesn't sound like the typical independent, or is it?
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Jan 30, 2011 19:09
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skidooer posted:Perhaps I was mistaken. I thought 8ender was referring to the rural independent telephone companies scattered around the country, who own wires and are slowly, but surely, taking on the likes of Bell as they expand their operation areas into towns and, maybe one day, cities. Well no, but as an example of this Execulink, based in Oxford County, Ontario, where I live, has gotten a cool million to expand broadband across the entire county. I believe they're using a wireless last mile solution, and their service is expensive, but it is heartening to see alternatives popping up. Also GorillaNet is another good example of a local alternative that owns it infrastructure. They also have a neat idea where you get a 200gb cap and completely free "moonlighting" hours between 12-6am. I believe this is a pretty great idea to relieve congestion by encouraging customers to get their downloading done on off peak hours. http://gorillanet.ca/ Also: To the person above that asked about a business DSL account. Teksavvy has replied that I need a "Bell business phone line" before I can get that service. It looks like Bell sells "Business Phone" for about the same as we're paying right now for home phone. Not sure if I want to proceed at this point because I'm really hesitant to give Bell money for anything. I generally work from home. I do graphic design and move a lot of bandwidth each month. I do on average about 300gb combined so I need to find a solution other than paying over $100 each month for internet. As an aside, I just setup all of our remote staff with an online backup service and now I think I'm going to have to cancel it. The first time one of our staff blows over their cap because their laptop is backing up will mean some heat on me so it probably has to go.
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Jan 30, 2011 19:13
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Someone on TB needs to start relating the usage caps to Egypt turning off the internet. That should scare the PMO enough to talk about this deal. As I see it, we can say they're trying to control how we use the internet. They turned off Egypt's internet to keep them from going on Facebook and Twitter, here they're making it overly expensive so that we stop using services like Netflix and iTunes. At least the Egypt thing wasn't directly about profits.
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Jan 30, 2011 21:30
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Since I'd bet more people know America's politics than they do Canadian, I'm surprised this hasn't been (rightly or wrongly) compared to Net Neutrality more. Here we have the big corporations who are potentially going to make it more expensive to access content UNLESS IT'S ON THEIR OWN SERVERS. Something which America just struck down. Why are we falling behind to America in internet freedoms? I'm not saying the two situations ARE actually similar at the core, but if you tickle everyone's "Canada is supposed to be better <  >" bone then that'll probably help solidify the "CANADA HAS THIRD WORLD INTERNET ACCESS" angle.
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Jan 30, 2011 21:38
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8ender posted:Also GorillaNet is another good example of a local alternative that owns it infrastructure. They also have a neat idea where you get a 200gb cap and completely free "moonlighting" hours between 12-6am. I believe this is a pretty great idea to relieve congestion by encouraging customers to get their downloading done on off peak hours. I quote from the owner of GorillaNet "We really haven't seen any shift to nighttime use. Most people so far don't seem to care. We have fairly tight caps on the mainstream rural Wireless service. A normal resi customer has 15GB per month. We haven't charged an overage in probably 2 years or so. We have a NetEqualizer that does a superb job of limiting P2P and so forth, and we play whack-a-mole with the odd few customers that don't play well with others. »https://www.cottagecountry.net/support/peer-to-peer (This needs updating badly, but we refer customers to it to explain what the issues are.)"
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Jan 30, 2011 21:45
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