|
SpacePig posted:Just Turdis is fine. The series ends with Kvothe burning basically all of his bridges and never finding the Chandrian. He spends all of his time and expends every resource he has just to find Denna, who is sad and vulnerable all the time and easy to take advantage of. He finally gets to have sex with Denna, but is so good at it that he kills her, so he vows never to have sex with anyone ever again. His friends do cool things that he isn't a part of, and Ambrose get his comeuppance in a way some might consider humorous. Everything else is a footnote, at best.
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 19:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 13:51 |
|
|
SpacePig posted:Just Turdis is fine. The series ends with Kvothe burning basically all of his bridges and never finding the Chandrian. He spends all of his time and expends every resource he has just to find Denna, who is sad and vulnerable all the time and easy to take advantage of. He finally gets to have sex with Denna, but is so good at it that he kills her, so he vows never to have sex with anyone ever again. His friends do cool things that he isn't a part of, and Ambrose get his comeuppance in a way some might consider humorous. Everything else is a footnote, at best. My god. It's beautiful.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
Solice Kirsk posted:I just don't see how these books can be turned into an interesting tv show. A Song of Ice and Fire was able to pull it off because it had 3 huge eventful books full of schemes, drama, battles, and character deaths to work with. This book has a few things that could be interesting on screen (Chandrian attack, hunting down the thieves, show the loving pirates and shipwrecks, Adem training could be good if they just cut it down), but most of it is watching a kid go to school and bitch about money and creep up on a girl. How the hell do you make that interesting over several seasons? Workplace drama / comedy about being a poor college student at Not Hogwarts. Good for four seasons easily.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
Drop the frame narrative, leave Kvothe's past a mystery, include actual class struggle as theme, and you have the makings of a decent show.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 19:32
|
|
|
I think it'd be cool if they made the show about modern-day Kote/Kvothe dealing with the Skral or whatever, getting back to the form his legend says he was in, and leaving his past to the books. Like, here's a show about a mysterious enemy and a hero who seems weak but has power to spare. He also knows more than he lets on about the enemy he's facing, and sometimes they seem to know more about him than they arguably should. Do you wanna know more about the specific workings of sympathy? Or vague notions of the Chandrian? Or made up exchange rates? Then read the book.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 19:43
|
|
|
Chronicler's ink well was completely dry when he finished. His wrists ached, the length of the tale causing him to use both his adroit hands to their fullest extent. During the recording, he had been too busy to truly reflect on the content of the story. He was more an automaton than a person- write, prompt, write, refresh ink, write some more. Now though, reviewing the pages and pages of text, he realized something was wrong. He looked up to Kvothe, confused. There was more than a little hurt in his face. "All of this..." he gestured at the table and the loose pages, "did you just.... make it up?" "Oh my God, I can't believe you wrote that all down. I'm Devon man, I just work here." "But," Chronicler sputtered. "What about him?!" He pointed an accusatory finger at Bast. Bast trembled, holding back laughter, "You think you're the first guy to come in here asking for Kvothe's story? Devon, I think he really believed you!" "I know! Oh man, Kvothe is gonna freak when he hears this." "What do you mean, when he hears this?" Chronicler questioned, livid. "Old Kvothe's just away on a business trip these past few days. In fact, I think that's him getting back now." The door to the inn opened. A huge man, nearly seven feet tall, ducked in through the frame. His broad, masculine shoulders would never have fit without him turning completely sideways. His lush, red hair tumbled down his back. He was completely naked. His enormous dick just touched the ground between each step he took. The man watched Chronicler watching him in silence for a moment. Then he spoke. "My name is Kvothe. You may have heard of me."
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 19:55
|
|
|
Bast still remains the best part of the story even in the fanfic jokes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 20:07
|
|
|
Hughlander posted:Workplace drama / comedy about being a poor college student at Not Hogwarts. Good for four seasons easily. Yeah but we already got The Magicians on Syfy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 23:43
|
|
|
But how much time is dedicated to money management?
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 01:12
|
|
|
Uranium Phoenix posted:In case it isn't obvious, it would be the sentient writing robot swarm known as Brandon Sanderson who would write it, while also writing a mistborn book, a stormlight book, and three "novellas" (60k words minimum). The fact he decided "hey this is a long flight I guess I'll write a book" is both hilarious and terrifying. The Wax and Wayne series is pretty good. That final scene in Bands of Mourning... 
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 02:56
|
|
|
TV show will just be a Big Bang Theory Reskin of Kvothe and his school buddies getting into hi-jinks. This will go on adinfinium with no real plot development.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 17:03
|
|
|
Benson Cunningham posted:Chronicler's ink well was completely dry when he finished. His wrists ached, the length of the tale causing him to use both his adroit hands to their fullest extent. During the recording, he had been too busy to truly reflect on the content of the story. He was more an automaton than a person- write, prompt, write, refresh ink, write some more. Now though, reviewing the pages and pages of text, he realized something was wrong. He looked up to Kvothe, confused. There was more than a little hurt in his face. Man, if book 3 never comes out, I'm ok with this ending.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 17:17
|
|
|
Upon concluding my re-reads I was left with one thing that I hadn't really picked up on before...what the hell is up with the Lethani? Why is it so hard for anyone, Adem or otherwise, to just say "Ah yes, internal moral compass" and be done with it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 17:31
|
|
|
jivjov posted:Upon concluding my re-reads I was left with one thing that I hadn't really picked up on before...what the hell is up with the Lethani? Why is it so hard for anyone, Adem or otherwise, to just say "Ah yes, internal moral compass" and be done with it? You're beginning to understand.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 17:40
|
|
|
The Kingkiller Chronicles not making sense? Surely you jest!
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 20:45
|
|
|
jivjov posted:Upon concluding my re-reads I was left with one thing that I hadn't really picked up on before...what the hell is up with the Lethani? Why is it so hard for anyone, Adem or otherwise, to just say "Ah yes, internal moral compass" and be done with it? This took you twelve reads?
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 20:48
|
|
|
Lottery of Babylon posted:This took you twelve reads? I hadn't stopped to consider it before. I originally was chalking it up to Kvothe just not wrapping his head around the way the Adem approached conversation about it; but then I started picking up on other Adem not even coming close to framing it like that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 20:50
|
|
|
jivjov posted:Upon concluding my re-reads I was left with one thing that I hadn't really picked up on before...what the hell is up with the Lethani? Why is it so hard for anyone, Adem or otherwise, to just say "Ah yes, internal moral compass" and be done with it? Because fantasy and "world-building" authors love to create overly complex and unrealistic cultures that take 1000 words to explain something that can be accurately summed in in 20. http://kingkiller.wikia.com/wiki/Lethani quote:The Lethani in many ways can relate to love and the name of the wind. It is something that our young Kvothe is looking for, but he needs slowly introduce himself to it in order to successfully understand it. It is a complex topic that cannot be discussed explicitly. People love the whole inscrutable unknowable philosophy thing in fiction but it ends up falling apart under the weight of its own ego. How can something be so incredibly complex without the capacity to openly discuss aspects of it? It's not like people's brains will suddenly go blank if they think about it too hard. It's like someone with no philosophy background read a wiki on some philosophical schools of thought and decided to take the but make it "mystical" pentyne fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Mar 30, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 21:03
|
|
|
The Lethani would've been more interesting and thematically in line with the supposed aims of the rest of the story if it had just turned out to be phony nonsense that all the sex ninjas pretended to understand but wouldn't admit because it's too "complex" and sacred to discuss. Then you could have Kvothe infiltrating the culture by diagnosing this and faking along with them instead of just doing an earnest but half-assed Dances With Wolves bit
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 21:19
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:The Kingkiller Chronicles not making sense? Surely you jest! Chronicle. Just the one. Which sounds incredibly unnatural to my ear, and might not even be grammatically correct. Just like the rest of his writing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 21:49
|
|
|
pentyne posted:People love the whole inscrutable unknowable philosophy thing in fiction but it ends up falling apart under the weight of its own ego. How can something be so incredibly complex without the capacity to openly discuss aspects of it? It's not like people's brains will suddenly go blank if they think about it too hard. There are some easy real world analogies here. Tao Te Ching posted:The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao Louis Armstrong posted:If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 21:55
|
|
|
Strom Cuzewon posted:Chronicle. Just the one. Which sounds incredibly unnatural to my ear, and might not even be grammatically correct. It's an interesting question actually. If it's referring to the three book series Patrick Rothfuss is writing, it should be plural (chronicles). If it's referring to the in-book story that Chronicler is writing, it should be singular (chronicle). So it's ambiguous, like what happened to Kvothe when pirates attacked!
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 22:43
|
|
|
Benson Cunningham posted:It's an interesting question actually. But we know that Denna's case saved him when he was ship wrecked and captured by pirates. Patrick Rothfuss: We Denna have enough money
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2016 02:18
|
|
|
Solice Kirsk posted:Patrick Rothfuss: We Denna have enough money mods pls
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2016 14:33
|
|
|
LET’S READ THE KINGKILLER CHRONICLE CRITICALLY Part 17: “I flipped through it, hoping to find something useful, but it was filled with sticky-sweet adventure stories meant to amuse children.” In Chapter 37, “Bright-Eyed,” Master Lorren talks to Kvothe about tuition, and Kvothe gets his three talents. Kvothe also requests that his book be reclaimed from the pawnstore in Tarbean, which Lorren agrees to. Lorren is completely stoic and emotionless. Is he a secret Amyr? I don’t care. Lorren introduces Kvothe to a student who will help him with formalities. Are you prepared to find out about the inner workings of the University? Do you want to know what this school of magic operates, what kind of lives are led inside this house of wonders? quote:Simmon kicked at a rock, sending it skipping down the cobblestones. “Okay. You’ve got options in the Mews. A talent will get you a bunk and a meal chit for the term.” He shrugged. “Nothing fancy, but it keeps the rain off. You can share a room for two talents or get one all to yourself for three.” It’s rather unimpressive to say the least. This once again brings us back to the book’s dearth of imagination in its fantasy. Kvothe is introduced to some other students of varying eccentricity. And we got more of Rothfuss’s preoccupation with pompous nobles: quote:“Hylta tiam,” Sovoy continued. “There is nothing in this place I do not hate. Your weather is wild and uncivilized. Your religion barbaric and prudish. Your whores are intolerably ignorant and unmannerly. Your language barely has the subtlety to express how wretched this place is….” This is the first pompous noble introduced in this chapter. Bafflingly, Rothfuss also inserts a “world’s smallest violin” gag into the text: quote:Mouth full, Manet made a gesture with both hands as if playing an imaginary violin. He rolled his eyes, his expression vastly unsympathetic. This is only the first annoying anachronicsm introduced in this chapter. There’s some more when Kvothe says that he wants to research the Chandrian: quote:Folklore’s a piece of it,” I hedged quickly, eager to save face. “I want to see if different cultures’ folktales conform to Teccam’s theory of narrative septagy.” After signing up for classes, Kvothe heads for the Archives again, but is rebuffed by another pompous noble. This is Ambrose, who’s Draco Malfoy to Kvothe’s Harry Potter. And like Hemme’s Snape, his character suffers from the same problem that he’s a shallower version of a chidren’s book character. I still don’t fully understand why fans praise the writing of these books. quote:This time when I entered the Archives, there was a young gentleman sitting behind the desk, tapping a pen on a piece of paper that bore the marks of much rewriting and crossing out. As I approached, he scowled and scratched out another line. His face was built to scowl. His hands were soft and pale. His blinding white linen shirt and richly-dyed blue vest reeked of money. The part of me that was not long removed from Tarbean wanted to pick his pocket. Rothfuss troes to set-up a rivalry between them that never becomes gripping, entertaining, or believable. As already mentioned, Ambrose is a shallow character. He’s an elitist rear end in a top hat, and that’s all the depth he’ll ever get. Rothfuss wants us to believe that this is a question of poor against rich, but Kvothe is an entitled brat who does not represent the poor. And their rivalry is not written with a sense of irony that would point out Kvothe’s hypocrisy. It’s deadly serious. Ambrose is basically like Kvothe’s Tarbean years, a contrivance to occupy a page-count. The plot says nothing about the characters, their world, class, etc. Ambrose’s despicability neatly aligns with the reader’s annoyance at Kvothe’s inhibition and at the plot being stopped. quote:“Wasting your time?” I demanded, my temper finally wearing thin. “Do you have any idea what I’ve gone through to get here?” Did you notice that Ambrose is correct about Kvothe being entitled? Kvothe only began trying to reach the University and the Archives a week ago. And he’s gotten in particularly easier than most people. Ambrose is actually describing someone much more invested in getting into the University. Kvothe cheated to get in. And his determination to find the truth about his family’s death would surely justify that! But it’s impossible to separate Kvothe’s quest from his sense of entitlement. There’s certainly no iron-hard practicality at work here. Perhaps Rothfuss realised this too, which is why he feels the need to double down on Ambrose’s classism. And what’s striking about Ambrose’s classism is how it’s inaccurate, as the reader knows that Kvothe is actually well-educated and well deserving of privilege. Thus the outrage comes from not that Ambrose thates the poor, but that Ambrose associates Kvothe with the uneducated, illiberal poor . Rothfuss ends up appealing to the classism of his readers. This, it seems, is what the fans like about the books: they can sympathise with Kvothe’s hardship, but can distance themselves from something as uncomfortable as the poor. This same phenomenon informs the characterization of gypsies : the Edema Ruh face discrimination and marginalization, but they’re actually educated middle-class liberals, just like you! The same goes for the Tarbean sequence: it sure is hard that Kvothe is poor, but at least he’s not like those other poor. And thus pompous nobles make a perfect target for pretensions of class warfare, because otherwise Kvothe would play the part of privileged git. When Kvothe acted the part of a pompous noble to get new clothes in Tarbean, how much of it was acting? And do you still remember Kvothe’s father bullying people by dropping his aristocratic patron’s name? Ambrose is no worse than Kvothe or his father. But again, if this is satire and we’re supposed to pick up on Kvothe’s hypocrisy, it’s underdeveloped. quote:Ambrose turned back to me, his smile bright, brittle, and by no means friendly. “Listen, I’m going to give you a little advice for free. Back home you were something special. Here you’re just another kid with a big mouth. So address me as Re’lar, go back to your bunk, and thank whatever pagan God you pray to that we’re not in Vintas. My father and I would chain you to a post like a rabid dog.” In Chapter 38, “Sympathy in the Mains,” Kvothe heads out for class in the University. There’s vague descriptions of the labyrinthine main building. The class is held by Hemme, the Snape of Kingkiller Chronicle. quote:Master Hemme entered the room and made his way onto the stage to stand behind a large stone worktable. He looked impressive in his dark master’s robes, and it was bare seconds before the whispering, shuffling theater of students hushed to silence. Hemme humiliates a succession of students who arrive late. There’s some more extraneous world-building details for people who use the phrase “living, breathing world” unironically. Did you know there are different calendars in Kvothe’s world? One of the late students is female: quote:“Rian, would you please cross your legs?” Hemme is a somewhat more believable character than Ambrose, but on the other hand he doesn’t have the hint of satire that Ambrose brings with him. So they’re equally bad. Shallower, children’s book characters, etc. I’m still confused by how anyone considered this book an “outstanding debut”. As the class proceeds, Kvothe realises that he already knows what’s being teached, being a boy prodigy. He brings this up with Hemme. Kvothe impresses him with a “perceived compliment,” but Hemme ends up waving him off. With free times on his hands, Kvothe heads out for the Archives, finally able to enter them. quote:There were two sets of double doors leading out of the antechamber, one marked STACKS and the other TOMES. Not knowing the difference between the two, I headed to the ones labeled STACKS. That was what I wanted. Stacks of books. Great heaps of books. Shelf after endless shelf of books. It’s no The Name of the Rose. Notice how vaguely the whole scene is presented. We have little idea of how one thing relates to another. The prose does not describe a cornucopia of books or a wealth of knowledge. There are a lot of books, Kvothe says. That’s one of the more striking things about the narration: Kvothe is profoundly unimaginative. Let’s compare to how Eco has a stuffy monk narrate in The Name of the Rose: The Name of the Rose posted:When we reached the top of the stairs, we went through the east tower into the scriptorium, and there I could not suppress a cry of wonder. This floor was not divided in two like the one below, and therefore it appeared to my eyes in all its spacious immensity. The ceilings, curved and not too high (lower than in a church, but still higher than in any chapter house I ever saw), supported by sturdy pillars, enclosed a space suffused with the most beautiful light, because three enormous windows opened on each of the longer sides, whereas a smaller window pierced each of the five external sides of each tower; eight high, narrow windows, finally, allowed light to enter from the octagonal central well. This is part of the description of just one room important to the narrative. The stuffy monk who narrates this is very much in touch with his sense of aesthetics, as opposed to Kvothe, the supposed son of a bard. Let’s go back to Chapter 36, where Kvothe first sees the Archives: quote:As I approached the Archives, its grey, windowless surface reminded me of an immense greystone. It was hard to believe after all the years of waiting that I was finally there. I circled around it until I found the entrance, a massive pair of stone doors standing wide open. Over them, chiseled deep into the stone, were the words Vorfelan Rhinata Morie. I didn’t recognize the language. It wasn’t Siaru…maybe Yllish, or Temic. Yet another question I needed answers for. I’m not going to even compare it to how Eco describes a door. Since Kvothe cannot enter the most important parts of the Archives, and has to request books. While requesting books on the Chandrian, he only gets a collection of fairy-tales. He moves on the Amyr, but while waiting is surprised by Master Lorren: quote:Lorren lay the request-ledger from Tomes on the table. “I noticed your request while assisting one of the newer scrivs in his duties,” he said. “You have an interest in the Chandrian and the Amyr?” he asked. Kvothe merely claims that he is curious about the Chandrian and the Amyr. Lorren can tell no more that the Amyr started out as travelling judges in the Aturan Empire, and Kvothe does not talk about Skarpi’s stories. Is Lorren a secret Amyr? It would make sense, but would not improve the plot. The intrigue is underdeveloped because he plays a very small role in the story despite his early prominence. quote:Lorren took my silence as a response. “A piece of advice,” he said gently. “The Amyr are dramatic figures. When we are young we all pretend to be Amyr and fight battles with willow-switch swords. It is natural for boys to be attracted to those stories.” He met my eyes. “However, a man, an arcanist, must focus himself on the present day. He must attend to practical things.” ROTHFUSSIAN ANACHRONISMS quote:“Goddamn first-termers,” Ambrose groused as he headed back around to sit behind the desk. “Come in here dressed like rag piles and act like they own the place.” BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Sep 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 19:47
|
|
|
Re: ROTHFUSSIAN ANACHRONISMS What's the issue with that one? Groused?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 20:19
|
|
|
Benson Cunningham posted:Re: ROTHFUSSIAN ANACHRONISMS "First-termers" "act like they own the place" Goddamn is at least from the 14th century.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:"First-termers" What year exactly are you taking Rothfuss as having set the Kingkiller Chronicles in? Even if it was set in our timeline I would think it could not be set not much earlier than the 14th century to pick up the University?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:04
|
|
|
Goddamn feels more out of place due to the distinct lack of dominant religion in that world. Anyhow wikipedia tells me the first universtiy was founded in Italy in 1088.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:12
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Goddamn feels more out of place due to the distinct lack of dominant religion in that world. anilEhilated posted:Anyhow wikipedia tells me the first universtiy was founded in Italy in 1088.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:25
|
|
|
Actually, I did. I also vaguely remember some nonsensical fake mythology but can't recall if they called their god-figure "god".
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:33
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Goddamn feels more out of place due to the distinct lack of dominant religion in that world. University is a stretch, it was basically a church with more reading and discussing (so long as it conformed to church doctrine).
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:35
|
|
|
The whole sentence is modern, kind of naturalistic style - is this how a highly-educated Renaissance noble speaks down to his inferiors? It's not as bad as "world's smallest violin," but come on, it's a ridiculous phrase to put in a novel where characters weave gossamer with music. It's like a character in a non-parodic fantasy novel saying "it's a Goddamn huge dragon and it's going to come over here and eat us".
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:It's like a character in a non-parodic fantasy novel saying "it's a Goddamn huge dragon and it's going to come over here and eat us". That sounds like Joe Abercrombie tbh.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:46
|
|
|
It's The Name of the Wind.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:47
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:It's The Name of the Wind. ...yes? I'm saying I can imagine a character in a non-parodic fantasy novel, specifically one written by Joe Abercrombie, saying "it's a Goddamn huge dragon and it's going to come over here and eat us".
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:52
|
|
|
Pulp fantasy like Abercrombie's stuff is supposed to be ridiculous. That is the appeal. It also keeps a consistent tone. The Name of the Wind can't decide what it wants to be, hence gossamer music and goddamn dragons in the same novel. These two tones, as I've noted, aren't used for contrast. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Apr 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2016 21:58
|
|
|
I too find fault with characters talking in semi-modern tones in a make belief fantasy universe where there is a university where magic science is studied. Certainly I've never read another series where that sort of language is used. No sir. The only thing I've been agreeing with you on so far is that Rothfuss needs to make his descriptions a little more impactful. So you've got that point, at least.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 15:48
|
|
|
ChickenWing posted:I too find fault with characters talking in semi-modern tones in a make belief fantasy universe where there is a university where magic science is studied. 1. There is no place for dull anachronisms in a fantasy adventure about gossamer music. 2. There is no place for Kvothe recalling dull anachronisms while narrating his fantasy adventures about gossamer music. 3. It's kind of funny how people ignore the world's smallest violin bit while defending dull anachronisms. quote:Certainly I've never read another series where that sort of language is used. No sir. You're supposed to compare it to well-written fiction. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Apr 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 16:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 13:51 |
|
|
Lamp man, you can poo poo talk someone I don't like to your hearts content, but when you bring my treasured sword armed space raptors into it, there's going to be a problem. For real though, Malazan is great.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2016 17:15
|
|