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Misread.
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Feb 11, 2011 05:46
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Just finished. If anything this book leaves me more questioning, I imagine that the present is much closer to the story than we think. I find it hard to believe that say he's already defeated all the bad guys etc. End of the book spoilers ahead. I wonder about Bast, his motives, etc. Everyone (Kvothe) keeps saying the Fae aren't human and we forget that at our peril, I'm not sold on Bast. The Chandrian and the Amyr are still absolutely unknown, we gained a little from fairy sex god, the Adem, the hate tree, and Bast about the creation myth (very LOTR btw) but you have to string it together and I kind of stopped paying attention. This is what I remember: There was one unified world, it consisted of those that knew the names and moved through the world. Then the shapers came, they were like the knowers but used their knowledge to have mastery over the world. The knowers disagreed with the shapers, at some point there were seven "cities" and sounds like seven great "men". Halliax was one of the shapers, he corrupted six of the seven men/cities. One remained true, this was the start of the Amyr? It turns out that the tree aided some of this by screwing with the people who went to visit it. That was as much as I can remember of the top of my head. Also, I think Kvothe changed his name or someone else did, Elodin freaks out when he suggests it. Kvothe probably trusted someone (Denna) with his true name and got burned, hard. His name was changed and thus he was changed, stripping him of his power. Or he changed his own name when Denna died without really knowing it. Bast is trying to help him reclaim his true name/destiny/power/etc. Bredon... Amyr? Denna's patron? Both? or aligned with the Chandrian side perhaps? I think somewhere it said being near the Maer would bring him close to the Amyr, unless that was a reference to the Lackless' family which would be ironic as they hate the Ruh. I want to know what's in all the secret boxes. Lyon fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Mar 3, 2011 |
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Mar 3, 2011 22:21
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tirinal posted:Though I'm not ashamed to say I started skipping whole paragraphs with Denna in them. She's incredibly kitchy and helpless, and all the more so because I'm sure Rothfuss is trying to write her as his idea of a strong feminist supporting lead. See, I'm not sure I agree. She's a fake-strong feminist supporting lead. I actually don't hate the character or even the dialogue. I view her as extremely flawed and codependent person. I think all of their fancy talk is for fun because they're both clever or a facade to avoid serious conversations. Further, I think while Kvothe is in love with her, he on some level knows she's so screwed up that he's better off waiting. Sure, he probably could have slept with her on a few different occasions now, but he's hoping for more than just a one time thing. Kvothe is the Ted Mosby of this world.
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Mar 4, 2011 01:59
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keiran_helcyan posted:Initially I was a trifle put off by the fact the author subjects us to our hero loving and winning the love of an immortal fairie that exists to destroy the minds of man but then a wonderful thing happened. I remembered our hero was Zapp Brannigan telling of his amazing conquests, and then all was well. Unfortunately this technique doesn't work with every scene with Denna, which I maintain is the most loathsome "love" story I have witnessed since Attack of the Clones. Hah, I had forgotten about someone saying reading it in Zap Brannigan's voice made it a lot more tolerable. Does anyone have any interviews where Rothfuss talks about Tak? He didn't really detail it enough, but it reminded me an awful lot of Go. It didn't seem like the pieces moved once placed and particularly the part about playing a beautiful game. Reminded me a lot of the Japanese philosophy surrounding the game. Also, someone needs to address my speculation before I start going into weird fantasy boards to get my theory fix!
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Mar 4, 2011 05:21
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Benson Cunningham posted:I don't think it's going to be like that. Kvothe's self imposed exile has to be because he is directly responsible for people he cares about dying. They might have died because someone got his name, but I don't think anything directly done to Kvothe is responsible for his fleeing civilization. It has to be people he cares about dying. Or his actions causing the war. Stuff like that. I'm not disagreeing with that, I think he caused some major damage to his friends, Denna, the world, or something and may have changed his name without realizing it or as a punishment someone changed his name on him. His inability to perform magic well, fight, etc leads me to believe his name was changed. I'll take wild guesses at how/why but I'm sticking with his true name was changed somehow which has caused him to lose a lot of his power. I think he'll regain it in the next book, I bet we're a lot closer to the story than we're supposed to think and half of the book will be the past, and the rest will be the present. Pretty much all of his badass titles the Arcane, the Bloodless, etc have alreedy been earned. We're pretty much just waiting for him to kill the king now and touch off the current events that seem to be going on. Lyon fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Mar 4, 2011 |
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Mar 4, 2011 20:20
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That looks right to me... what were you wondering beyond that?
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Mar 7, 2011 14:36
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If you remember they always offer back the rings to their visitors. Because the rest of the nobility is wealthy they leave them around as status symbols. Visiting nobles always look through the ring collection to see who has visited you, how they ranked themselves compared to you, etc. Almost none of them actually take back the rings, but they're always offered. Kvothe just actually takes them up on it, most of the nobles probably assume it's because he's a foreigner rather than because he's poor as hell.
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Mar 7, 2011 14:57
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The reverse, he's far far younger than he looks. Kvothe is under the age of 30 but looks like someone older than that or some such. That might apply to Bast, he's Fae and much older than he looks, I remember reading he's like 150 somewhere?
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Mar 7, 2011 17:21
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Hah this last few responses make it sound exactly like the game Fable. Hell, it pretty much is Fable. The part with Felurian was cool PURELY for the angry tree and the creation myth. I love that stuff. There's nothing I love more than a cool magic system, learning how everything is connected, back story, history, etc. I'm willing to put up with his terrible ability to write sex scenes just for all the stuff he had Felurian ramble to Kvothe. Also, I love the way he's handling the magic system. His take (not that it's very original) on true names is done well and I loved anything with Elodin. Speaking of... Elodin is probably the best character, the random assignments, breaking into Hemme's apartment and burning his clothes, conversations they had, etc. I also love Auri. She's definitely got a deeper role and obviously Kvothe named her with her true name. I read elsewhere that Auri has given Kvothe a key and a coin, she says the key is the moon and the coin is like nothing Kvothe has seen before. The story of Taborlin has a key, coin, and candle. Auri also has that magic light which could have been Taborlin's "candle". Sshe "had a light of her own, something she held in her cupped hands that gave of a soft, blue-green glow." Kvothe continues, "I was curious about what she held but didn't want to press her for too many secrets at once." Thoughts?
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Mar 9, 2011 19:54
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Benson Cunningham posted:Not necessarily. Bast could be suckered just as much as everyone else has been. I definitely admit this whole story would be way more interesting if it turned out Kvothe is barely better than the average University student. Devi kicked his rear end easily enough, and it seems like any of the Masters could destroy him. He has a long way to go from his current point if he's going to live it to the legend he's created. The main reason I don't think he's faking it is because of: On his first hand he wore rings of stone, Iron, amber, wood, and bone. There were— The smith’s prentice frowned. “I can’t remember the rest. There was something about fire. . . .” The innkeeper’s expression was unreadable. He looked down at where his own hands lay spread on the top of the bar, and after a moment he recited: There were rings unseen on his second hand. One was blood in a flowing band. One of air all whisper thin, And the ring of ice had a flaw within. Full faintly shone the ring of flame, And the final ring was without name. This implies that he did learn a bunch more true names, and we've seen that he clearly has a great skill at naming which is definitely the most "powerful" magic we've seen. Also, at 16 after his first year he's a near match for Devi who was stronger than the master Dal and he's definitely "smarter" than almost everyone else. Although a lot of his nick names and feats are definitely stretched beyond proportion. If you reread the opening chapters you'll hear some of the stories from later on that are made into tall tales. Also, he got the arcane, bloodless, and some of his other cool nicknames for minor feats while in the academy. Lyon fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Mar 11, 2011 |
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Mar 11, 2011 02:27
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CaptainScraps posted:It really feels like Kvothe is paralleling the life of Taborlin the Great. He knows the names of things. He called down the lightning. And apparently, he has a cloak of no particular color. I'm waiting to see if this plays out into something important plot-wise in the next book. I totally agree. Check out my post above about Taborlin's three tools and Auri. New plot twist? Possibly, I think this is original detectiving but someone more clever than me probably already came up with it. Or it's so simple it's assumed. The Chancellor was poisoned either by the Amyr or a Chandrian ally. Denna happens to know/be learning Yllish, Denna's patron is very mysterious and is most likely Cinder but could be an Amyr. The reason I say it could be an Amyr is because Kvothe will probably end up killing her patron, turns out he's an Amyr, etc etc. So I think both the Amyr and the Chandrian would know Yllish, they both clearly don't mind killing (the crazy doctor), and they both want to keep their secrets. Thus, I state the Chancellor was not an Amyr, but that the Amyr and/or the Chandrian have infiltrated the university to a large degree. Lyon fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Mar 14, 2011 |
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Mar 14, 2011 03:57
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“The Road to Levenshir” by Patrick Rothfuss. Oh God. The second worst story in the book. Maybe the worst. At least “Windseekers” is original. Set in vaguely medieval times (in an SCA-ish sort of way) we follow our troubadour hero as he encounters some bad guys pretending to be his people, the Edema Ruh (read “gypsies”); he rescues two girls and teaches some townsfolk the error of their ways. And this is also an excerpt from a LONGER novel. Aaaarrrggghhh! Ripped that from here. Spoiler is from The Wise Man's Fear, so if you've read the book there's nothing to fear with the spoiler. Lyon fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Mar 14, 2011 |
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Mar 14, 2011 20:22
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blahz posted:Edit: Also what's the deal with the tuition agreement near the end? I'm not even sure this needs to be spoilered at all, but he basically makes the agreement to split 50/50 any amount over 10 talents. How is this not straight up fraud on the part of Riem, and why does it even seem like a good idea to him? Beyond that, how does the agreement make any sense? The university charges him 24 talents, and they each get 7 talents. With Kvothe's wondering aloud about how the Maer would pay any sum, I assumed they were going to charge an amount over his tuition, then pocket the extra. Instead they shortchange the university itself? Does the university not keep a total and realize that they're missing 14 talents? It's a small sum in the grand scheme of things, but considering retailers have cashiers count their tills to check for any discrepancies, I can't imagine the university not noticing. Well, I thought the same thing as you in regards to how they were going to cheat the Maer and not the university. But in regards to the system Riem and Kvothe agree to, it is straight up fraud. I think the idea though is that the masters, Kvothe, and Riem are the only ones who will ever know his tuition. Kvothe has a history of having low tuition, Kvothe will now artificially inflate his tuition, then they split anything over X talents. Kvothe basically had to negotiate two things with Riem, the cut off point and the split. Once he convinced Riem that he would never truly have a tuition over 10 talents, anything beyond that is Kvothe artificially inflating his tuition and so not really due to the university. Or you could argue that anyway, it's still fraud. Does that make sense? TWMF posted:That left only Hemme, who had been scowling furiously since I’d first stepped up to the masters’ table. My lackluster performance and slow answers had brought a smug curve to his lips by this point. His eyes gleamed whenever I gave a wrong answer. The bolded parts are all intentional, not an actual lack of intellect/knowledge. Kvothe is such a smug bastard, sometimes I hope he just gets knifed by a wandering brigand. Lyon fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 16:35
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I agree, it's a backwards plot. The Maer can't easily verify how much Kvothe's actual tuition is, so it would be easy for Kvothe to keep on earning a low tuition through admissions and then him and Riem grossing it up. The Maer is 1,000 miles away and owes Kvothe his life, his wife, and twice more for destroying brigands. I think he can afford an extra ~20 talents a year and wouldn't really care. Meanwhile there's a master and a rich/powerful student who hate him and that are a part of the very university Kvothe is stealing from. Who's more likely to find out you're cheating them and who's more likely to care/do something about it? It's just another instance of Kvothe (Rothfuss?) being a smug piece of poo poo, you really got one over Hemme you super smart genius piece of perfection. I wouldn't be surprised if he did get kicked out for this reason, it would be kind of funny, and I would like Rothfuss for doing it.
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Mar 15, 2011 18:39
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Bast was never a secret bad rear end, he's got some cool Fae title and I think it might include prince. Bast has always been scary, particularly when he threatens the Chronicler. Some of the lines Rothfuss uses there are great, and almost worth reading the books just for that. I seem to remember something along the lines of "I'll split you open like an overripe fruit and play around with your insides." but written a lot better.
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Mar 16, 2011 23:14
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I totally missed the song and that his mother was the runaway Lackless. So I feel like less of an idiot I'd like to qualify that with the fact that I read NotW in my college's bookstore back in first came out whenever I went there between my classes and haven't reread it since. I also tend to not read songs/poems/insertions critically. I think that started in LotR or something like that, I just skim them now for the most part. I think I figured out most of the other "hidden" stuff on my own or through reading other people's posts about the book and having an "ah-hah!" moment based on their interpretation fusing with mine. I just want more world building, true names, Amyr/Chandrian, etc. I don't really care that much about Kvothe's situation, I more view him as a vehicle into the world.
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Mar 20, 2011 22:49
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I think it would be cool if the Chandrian somehow turned out to be the good guys, but it's hard to argue for. Both the Amyr and the Chandrian are very morally ambiguous but it seems the Chandrian have more of an evil bent. The only way it could make sense (that I've come up with) is if when the world was split into two it was done to protect the humans. Perhaps the Amyr seek to reunite the two worlds and the Chandrian oppose it because it would destroy humanity. They kill anyone who gets in their way because better safe than sorry, they view them as enemies if it isn't intentional, and they've probably become warped from years of hiding from the Amyr and the other groups Haliax mentions. I'm too lazy to look for any proof of this right now, but I'm hoping there's something interesting that comes out of this series. Also I want Kvothe and Elodin just run around blasting stuff with their true names because I'm a nerd like that.
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Mar 23, 2011 20:18
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The problem is you can't really start a new series based around Kvothe. The present would need to be wrapped up in the current books and fairly quickly otherwise it would end up being terrible (in my opinion obviously). If Rothfuss stretched Kvothe regaining his abilities into a whole book it would be brutally bad, we'd end up with "wise old mentor" and it would feel like the academy and all that BS all over again with more adult angst. So he'd have to regain his powers relatively quickly. Theoretically once he regains his powers/abilities he should be one of the TOP guys, I guess the Chandrian and Amyr are so bad rear end that maybe he doesn't compare at all, but then we get more training/power up arcs and a final flashy show down. I now agree that we won't see much resolution in the frame story, maybe it will just end on a positive "And then Kvothe remembered who he was." and we'll just be left to assume he goes out and fixes his poo poo.
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Mar 25, 2011 17:04
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I think he said to the other Chandrian that he protects them from the Amyr, the Singers, and the Sithe. I don't necessarily know that he said he was afraid of them.
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Mar 27, 2011 17:45
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Dendra posted:No, expulsion was compulsory and they opted to repeal it after enacting it. I'm in the same boat as Mahlertov Cocktail (haven't read NotW since it was released), but I thought at the end he specifically says in the epilogue part something like, "blah blah blah and Ambrose would get me kicked out of the university." As in it was going to happen AFTER the first book, not that it kind of happened in the first book.
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Mar 30, 2011 17:36
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My thought is that Bredon is part of the human Amyr and Denna's patron. I think at this point Kvothe would be able to sense the "otherness" of one of the Chandrian. He's a pretty talented magician, smart, and he's had encounters with multiple non-human entities now. Of course one question I've been wondering about is why Denna's patron is having her write a song about Lanre being a hero. If you know too much about the Chandrian they come and kill your rear end, unless you work for them and her patron is Cinder, or maybe like Ferulian if write a song painting them as heroes they let you live! Shouldn't Kvothe potentially warn her about this?
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Mar 31, 2011 20:31
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I would read anything about Elodin, problem is I think he's only a good character because he just pops in mysteriously, does awesome poo poo, and then he's gone. Rothfuss would probably kill his best traits if it were entirely him  .
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Apr 5, 2011 16:05
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calandryll posted:I wonder if that would be like Ender's Shadow, which I enjoyed a lot more than Ender's Game. You.. you.. what? God I hated Ender's Shadow.
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Apr 7, 2011 19:28
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pakman posted:My first comment is this (and I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet): do the Amyr strike anyone as having a similar storyline to the Knights Templar? Maybe I'm just getting my streams crossed because I read Foucault's Pendulum a couple months back. They were a religious order, and then were disbanded. Nothing but stories of them remain, not facts. First, yes, I think it's very intentional. Second, it's been made clear that the Amyr aren't exactly good. They may be working for the greater good, but their methods are suspect at best. Any of the small local events they were involved in wouldn't be considered good, like murdering/experimenting on thousands of people to learn human anatomy. Third, as we don't know exactly who Bredon is it's hard to say what exactly is going on between Kvothe and him. Fourth, as far as I could tell he was just laughing at himself for forgetting that he's Kote now.
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Jul 9, 2011 21:04
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Man, I just wish he'd go into the magic more. I love the concept of naming every time it gets used in a fantasy series. Are there any other good book series with a similar magical vibe? I've read pretty much everything that can be considered "mainstream" or "standard" for the most part...
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Oct 11, 2011 18:35
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I saw all the activity and thought maybe there was news on the third book, sadly it was more fantasy author creepiness. There's a thread in d&d all about feminism and misogny in sci fi and fantasy, GRRM, and the Bakker thread are pretty much all focused on this.
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Mar 2, 2012 19:06
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jivjov posted:It was the whipping. They thought about calling the arrowcatch the Bloodless though. And didn't he kill an angel or something? I really just want the rest of the back story with the Chandrians and all the awesome stuff with the namers/shapers.
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Feb 23, 2014 19:35
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I really liked the idea that Auri might have a more metaphysical interpretation/role in the story and if it turns out she is just a failed student whose mind was broken by magic I will be a little disappointed.
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Apr 27, 2014 18:35
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Karnegal posted:--- Again, the books aren't the worst thing ever, but they aren't particularly special. If you're really into magic systems read Sanderson. The guy is at least as obsessed with creating rules for his magic systems, but they cohere better than Pat's. I feel like the difference between Sanderson and Rothfuss is that Rothfuss's magic system has more mystery to it. Sympathy is very technical but naming appears to be much more mysterious and abstract. I haven't read that much Sanderson but his magic can feel too mechanical to me sometimes.
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Jun 30, 2014 21:33
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Bardeh posted:Another thing that stuck in my mind was the whole tuition thing when Kvothe gets back to the University at the end of TWMF. It doesn't make sense. Kvothe deliberately screws up his interview to make his admission higher, then comes to an arrangement with the bursar to get half of everything over 10 talents. But the University would still need to be paid the whole sum, so presumably the bursar is overcharging Alveron. But if that's the case, why not just do admissions as normal, and just tell the bursar to overcharge Alveron anyway? I was just thinking about this and it really only makes sense if you assume the bursar has some insane dedication to the school rather than himself. If Kvothe passes his exams like normal his tuition (as an example I can't remember the real numbers) is 5 talents so the university gets 5 talents. If Kvothe screws up his exams and the tuition is 15 talents the university gets an additional 5 talents and the bursar gives Kvothe 5 talents. This nets the university more money but it is such a minor amount the bursar would have to be insane to think it really made any sense at all.
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Jul 14, 2014 16:55
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I have no problem with the books taking a while to come out because I enjoy them and the man can live his own life. I do think Rothfuss has become a bit of a... peacock/puffed up from his success? I'm not sure what the right word is to be honest but it seems like he enjoys his fame/celebrity (in fantasy/internet) circles more than he does writing. Which is totally great, I mean it is his life, but all of these other engagements he's currently involved in are based on the fact that he wrote a couple of successful fantasy novels. The issue is the same people who are now going to see him speak at conventions, donating to his charity, and continuing to support these other ventures of his want the third book. This means he can't tell them, "Hey I'm taking a break from writing for a while to pursue other ventures." because his other ventures would dry up if his fan base turned on him. Thus we continually get, "It was done but I need to do massive edits!" or "It was really more of an outline than a completed story..." and other back pedaling. That's my interpretation anyway.
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Aug 21, 2014 15:19
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DurosKlav posted:I've always hated the ending to the Farseer trilogy. I know its stupid but it put me in a funk for nearly a week. Such a bad, and creepy ending and not really necessary. It went a bit too far. Fitz's adoptive father doesnt need to marry Fitz's formerly pregnant girlfriend who's old enough to be his daughter as well. They could has easily passed off as a father and his daughter who lost her husband to the recent events, they didnt need to hook up to avoid a controversy, Ugh. It didnt have to be happy but it didnt need to be that! I'm shocked how much it still irritates me and its been a good 10+ years since I read it the first time. Did you read the Tawny Man trilogy?
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Sep 6, 2014 20:40
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Arkeus posted:I...really? Now, to be fair, i have only read like 5/6 Tad williams books, but i don't remember anything noteworthy happening to the MCs. Either i am thinking of the wrong books, my memories of them has really gone, or something is weird. For a while it was Fitz but then in the Tawny Man trilogy she kind of eases off of him. I haven't read anything yet about this new trilogy but I'm a little worried.
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Sep 29, 2014 02:29
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Did anyone ever make a Robin Hobb thread? I just read the first book in the new trilogy and want to talk about it.
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Oct 29, 2014 13:01
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Calidus posted:If he keeps releasing a book every 4 years, then he would finish the first trilogy at 42 and the second a 54 in 2027. That would be about the same time as his kids finish college, so he could possibly retire if he wanted too. Jim Butcher has said multiple times that the number of dresden books will be based off long his son goes to college. Jim Butcher has stated the exact length of Dresden several times. I think it is 20 books + a final 3 book apocalypse trilogy but I could mis-remembering those numbers a bit. Whether that lines up with his kid's college timeline I don't know. Edit: I guess it isn't quite as exact as I thought. Wiki and Jim Butcher's FAQ posted:Butcher is currently planning for approximately twenty books in the "case files" of the series, to be capped by a further "big apocalyptic trilogy". At the Tyson's Corner Book Signing on August 1, 2011, Butcher hinted that the titles of the apocalyptic trilogy would be "Stars and Stones", "Hell's Bells", and "Empty Night", referring to curse words used by Harry and the White Court vampires, respectively. Lyon fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Oct 31, 2014 |
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Oct 31, 2014 14:56
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ulmont posted:I suspect Rothfuss knows this, which is why we're never going to see book 3. I think it is partly this and partly that Rothfuss loves being a "famous writer" more than he loves writing. Torrannor posted:I was about to read his Rothfuss Let's Read, but then I had to stop because I noticed he abandoned his Way of Kings Let's Read and declared the book boring, which unfortunately robs him of all authority to judge the quality of a a work of fantasy literature. I have tried to read Way of Kings at least twice and failed every time despite people telling me if I make it through the first 200 pages it becomes really good. I will eventually finish it but the beginning is very slow/too D&D or something.
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Jul 28, 2015 02:44
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Speaking of female authors, it's been years since I've read the Coldfire Trilogy (teenager) or the Magister Trilogy (early to mid 20s) but I just wanted to say that CS Friedman is one of the best authors I've ever read and if you haven't read Coldfire you should go do it immediately. Now I'm curious to go back and read both of those trilogies to see how they hold up.
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Feb 3, 2016 07:08
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Not A Hydroxyl Ion posted:Who here has read anything by Guy Gavriel Kay? I read Tigana a few years back and really enjoyed it--it's definitely miles above Rothfuss' works in every respect--but haven't checked out anything else by him yet. His other works are all solid to awesome. My favorite is The Lions of Al-Rassan which is one of the books I continually reread when I'm at home for the holidays. He's also really well know for the Fionavar Tapestry which is a 'people from our world transported to fantasy world' story which are not my favorite but this is still pretty good too. It's basically like a darker Chronicles of Narnia and it definitely has its moments. He has a lot of stand alone novels which is great, the only series of his that I haven't read is the Sarantine Mosaic but I've heard good things about that too. I've read most of the individual books and while Tigana and Lions are my two favorite the rest are all definitely decent to good.
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Feb 5, 2016 09:07
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jivjov posted:But you combine those things with the "sharp stone" comparison and the knowledge that the description is being applied to a sword to get to "dangerous" I took it more to mean hidden danger. You might look at it and not see it as extremely dangerous or you might not even realize it's there hidden under the water but when you are crossing the river and you trip and fall onto the rock it is plenty deadly/dangerous (or if you were being pulled downstream). I can maybe accept that the different use of language doesn't make sense, going from otherworldly to natural but even then it is a magic fantasy sword, maybe it is both. Anyway what I'm saying is this is not nearly Rothfuss's worst transgression. I think he's a total rear end and that he is highly overrated but I just don't see how this one phrase is getting so much interest.
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Feb 18, 2016 20:04
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Solice Kirsk posted:It's a rereg of some old poster. I recognize the annoying bold bits and poo poo opinions. I assumed it was a joke based on TV Tropes?
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Jun 13, 2016 19:14
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