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You demanded it... Hollywood and the Film Industry are like a giant wristwatch. It looks simple on the outside, but then you open it up and there's more complicated parts and gizmos inside that it boggles the mind to think that somebody could've put it together in the first place. Like the wristwatch, I'm not sure that anybody fully understands all the functions, but we all try to get together and try to figure it out. So who am I in all of this? I'm a one of the hundreds of thousands struggling up-and-coming filmmakers who lives in the delusion that one day they can make a movie that people care about. I've played film festivals, I've appeared in documentaries, I've had a lot of fun, and made a lot of mistakes. I've worked freelance, edited and re-edited many feature films that'll never see the light of day, worked as a consultant, pulled favors, given favors, and said the wrong things at the wrong times. I've worked for film festivals in programming, and on the technical side. For my "day job", I'm a producer's assistant at a production company - it's a wonderful environment that's encouraging and allowing me to get back into personal filmmaking on the side. I've lived in LA for almost 2 years now, and struggled to work "in the business" after finishing film school school in Austin, TX. I'm not here to promote myself/my workplace (I'd rather not give that stuff out), this info is just to give background on my experiences and give myself some credibility. So is LA the soul-crushing experience I imagine it to be? ...Is probably the biggest question I get right off the bat. And I must admit that, three or your years ago, I was asking the same question. When you don't live here, LA is such an intimidating idea, an intimidating force. The jungle. Eat or be eaten. Moving from the Land of the Lotus Eaters to LA was one of the scariest things I've done - I hardly knew anybody, I didn't have a job lined up, some money but not enough to last. So far I'm happy to report that LA has been a blast. It's a weird place (yes, I'm saying that coming from a place that "keeping it weird" is a mantra) and it takes a lot of getting used to - especially in regards to parking - but once you catch on and get into the groove, it's a lot of fun. You figure out what part of LA fits you and what you want and who you like to hang out with and work with that. On the business side, it's been incredibly educational. poo poo happens out here. Deals get made, paper gets signed, people get paid, movies get made, and it all happens right here. When you're in film school or trying to make your own projects outside the system, you know that there's a different way to do things, but you really have no idea what it could be. Both begin (usually) with somebody saying, "Hey, I've got a cool idea for a movie" and somebody else agreeing. On the school/outside part of the equation, you go and make the movie. On the more professional side you start market research alright - what similar films have been made like this, how well did they do, how much can we reasonably spend - all the external factors are considered well before the ball gets rolling. With larger amounts of money on the line, I can't really blame them. Making a film is a risky enough investment, going in without knowing as much as you can is almost irresponsible. So what is the deal with all the remakes/reimagining? … Would be the other question I get a lot. In the last few years DVD sales have plummeted and the box office figures are less and less. There's a million reasons for this, and some of it is the industry's fault and some of it are external factors such as piracy. So, when it's getting harder and harder to make money on risks, you go for the surest things and the surest things are projects with name recognition. In the past, this would be actors, and to some extent it still is. George Clooney is always going to bring you money. But, beyond a certain number of names, you don't really get the draw that you would like. I think Cillian Murphy is a great actor, but people don't beat down the doors to go see his movies. The majority of movie goers are not you and me. They aren't the kind of person who looks through the old stacks of DVDs in the store to find a great deal. They don't have a favorite gray market seller. They don't covet Criterions. The average moviegoer is a Mid-Westerner on a date. Movie fans tend to forget this, but the box office doesn't. The average moviegoer doesn't have a top 25 ranked list for ever year they've been alive. They don't save their stubs in a fetishistic manner - they're spending an evening out. If it goes well, maybe they'll get to make out afterwards. So when asking somebody on a date, it's easier to say, "Hey do you wanna go see Karate Kid?" as opposed to "Hey, do you wanna go see Dogtooth?". People will go to what's familiar. So when asked for Karate Kid - they know what they're getting into, there's nothing that's going to screw up the date, so they go. With Dogtooth, they don't know what it is and before they know it, they're left to discuss the implications of an incestuous lick-based economy on the first date. Not what they want. So yeah… If you've got questions, ask away, there's a few other working people around, one of us will hopefully try to answer it. However, this is the movie business - sometimes nobody knows the answer.
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Nov 15, 2010 23:33
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Really excited about this thread! I don't know that it was my idea or not, but I'm still excited to read it. Your insider info is usually pretty interesting. Here's a couple of bad questions to get you started: Are there any absolute trainwreck productions you've been involved with that you could talk about? What's your (admittedly general) advice for anyone wanting to get into the business? Say, from a writer's point of view. How long do you see the current 3D trend continuing?
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Nov 15, 2010 23:46
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How much, would you say, does the industry spend annually on kneepads and lubricant? Ever been on the business end of a casting couch? If so, did you enjoy it? What's Lars von Trier like in person?
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Nov 15, 2010 23:48
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Here's a question I've always wondered that you might know. We all know that a big name director makes pretty good bankroll when they sign on to a film, either through upfront or back-end payments. What about, say, their editors. How much does a Thelma Schoonmaker or Michael Kahn make for a movie?
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Nov 15, 2010 23:48
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Do people in the business have any expectations that the more out-there distribution models, like road shows and ultra-early, ultra-expensive VOD will catch on? Are they just throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks?
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Nov 15, 2010 23:53
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NeuroticErotica posted:So, when it's getting harder and harder to make money on risks, you go for the surest things and the surest things are projects with name recognition. Do you find that ideas like this start turning into blind mantras? IE, "We have to adapt an existing property, even if it has absolutely no following or cultural foothold, because EXISTING PROPERTY". Basically I am wondering why there is going to be a Kane & Lynch movie.
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Nov 15, 2010 23:55
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ClydeUmney posted:Are there any absolute trainwreck productions you've been involved with that you could talk about? My first gig out here was working for a Music Producer who found that his biggest paydays were when he'd write a song and it was used in a movie - so the obvious answer is to make a movie that's nearly wall-to-wall his music. He'd get his musicians together and they'd just kinda talk to the camera about stuff and he'd harass people and yell and stuff. I'd shoot for him on a DV cam and edit. It was always weird to hear him talk about the movies because he'd claim they had all these intricate plot lines that just weren't there. I don't know if he actually thought they were in the movie or if that was just his way of explaining it all. It was always miserable, he'd yell and just be awful, I'd get spit on and harassed, and I had to drive an hour outside of LA to get to his place where we'd work. The money was awesome, but he'd basically complain for an hour (off the clock) everytime I got a check about how much it was costing him and whatnot. He paid daily. He surrounded himself with a lot of kooky people, and they always had a bunch of drama going on that they kept trying to bring me into, which I definitely did not want. ClydeUmney posted:What's your (admittedly general) advice for anyone wanting to get into the business? Say, from a writer's point of view. It really depends on what you want to do. Which is actually the first thing - most people know they want to get into the business and not much beyond that. If you want to write, focus on that, if you want to be in camera, focus on that. People who want to do everything either stretch themselves too thin, or, in most cases, end up doing nothing. For writers, the biggest thing is to keep writing. It sounds so basic it's stupid, but I can't tell you how many "writers" I know who have written one script and just try to get that one peddled around. If you are a writer you should keep writing. Write ten scripts. I know you're not on the phone all day to the agencies, stop playing Call of Duty and write a new script! The other biggest thing is that you need to work with the other people involved with a project. There will be changes to your spec script if somebody gets involved. That's just the way it is - and odds are your script is not perfect! Some writers get a script in development and fight and fight and fight on every change. I'm not saying don't fight for what's important - like if they want to change a character from a neo-nazi to a black peace advocate, fight for that. But if it's like changing a location from an ice cream store to a donut store for logistical reasons (ie the Producer's bro runs a donut store they can use for free), or something like that, work with them. Be creative. Some things will have to change. Kill your babies. If you work positively and creatively, you will be all the better for it. I've seen people fight on the smallest projects - often it's just ego. And ego is a killer. A career killer. The other thing is, if you really want to do it, you should move to LA to see how the business works. I know you can write anywhere and x writer works in y location, etc. but it really helps to be out here. The best way I've heard it put is as such - you can write a country song anywhere, but if you want to sell it, it helps to be in Nashville. ClydeUmney posted:How long do you see the current 3D trend continuing? Until they find a way to pirate it.
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Nov 16, 2010 00:06
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How close to the truth are any of Robert Evan's stories from his book? I know, like he says "everyone remembers it diferently, and everyone is right" but did he really saved the Godfather from mediocrity?
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Nov 16, 2010 00:09
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Being an Austin guy, is Richard Linklater as kickass as his movies?
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Nov 16, 2010 00:14
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Can you give us an idea at what level of productions you are working as PA? Also, what is the general take in the business on how it's going? Has 3D brought a sense of optimism or do they know they are just pissing their pants and hoping something new will come along and save them?
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Nov 16, 2010 00:46
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A Futbol Injustice posted:How much, would you say, does the industry spend annually on kneepads and lubricant? The rule with knee pads is that if you buy a good pair they'll never wear out. Also the key is to wear them inside your pants, nobody wants to see that you're prepared for it. Never been involved in the casting couch, but one time I put out a casting call and I held auditions and this one actress couldn't make either of my call times because she was on a shoot. She keeps emailing me about how much she liked the script and whatnot and I felt bad for her, and hey if she's working anywhere then she must be somewhat decent, so I said I'd give her an audition if we could just figure out where to do it. She thanks me and invites me over to her house. Before I go over there, I look up the shoot she was on just to see what it was- and it was her credited as another name. I look up that name and turns out she's a porn star trying to turn to legitimate film. So at this point there's two impulses - one that this can only go really bad, the other being that porn star turned good could be a good way to get attention to the short. So I went to her house and her roommate answers the door. I ask for her name and it takes him a second to associate it with her. He lets me in and it's just this kinda messy house that it looks like three absolute slackers live in. Ashtrays everywhere, everything sectioned off, nothing community. It's like people's first college house inhabited by people who are wayyyy too old for college. I meet up with her and she never lets on that she does adult work, just describing her last shoot as "fun". She then starts talking to me about the script and she just does not get it at all. Like misreading her character and she just played it in this bizarre non-human way. I tried giving her directions but everything was just terrible. When we were done, she just looked at me with this look of excitement, like if you told a six-year-old girl that she can be both a movie star AND a princess. She was really excited and thought that she'd just nailed the role and that this was going to break her out of this life. There was no way that she'd ever get the role, but writing her to tell her no was still really hard to do. I'm still at the point where I hate to upset people/let people down, which has been a hassle and a problem. I think a lot of people out here, too, feel that way even though they don't try to show it. I think that's a big reason for the impersonality of the business - it's tougher when you know what a person goes through and what they want and you know how much it'll disappoint them. A Futbol Injustice posted:What's Lars von Trier like in person? Lars is deathly scared of airplanes so he'll never come to America. I think we would get along. TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Here's a question I've always wondered that you might know. Once you get to be a person with power, all the rules go out the window. Like, I'm sure one day Murch got offered a project he didn't want to do, made up a number that he thought they'd never pay and they paid it. Schoonmaker makes a decent amount because Scorsese tends to take care of his people. Her especially. From what I've heard (and this is all Hollywood jerk talk so who knows) but supposedly Scorsese can't cover a scene too well and Thelma keeps managing to bail him out of tough jams. morestuff posted:Do people in the business have any expectations that the more out-there distribution models, like road shows and ultra-early, ultra-expensive VOD will catch on? Are they just throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks? In the indy world DIY distro is all the rage. Right now the independent film model is so broken on the distro side and so ever-expanding on the content side that everybody keeps saying "Something's gotta change! Something's gotta fix this!" and everybody waits for somebody else to fix it for them. The guy you linked, Todd Sklar, is a friend of mine, and he'll tell you - DIY distro, esp. with a road show model is possible, it can happen, you can make money from it - it's not worth it though. The time and effort sunk into a road show is enormous, not to mention the expenses, and the worst part is that this is time that you are not developing new movies, so the gap between projects is abnormally large and you don't have a lot of money to sustain yourself during that time. Right now it's just a lot of experimentation, and regrouping. Bob Berney keeps trying to make higher-level indy distro companies for traditional theatrical and keeps finding his backers are not prepared for the intensity that it takes. VOD is the buzzword of the past three years, but when it comes down to it, who do you know that has ever watched a movie over VOD? I do not know if the cable at my house has a VOD setup and this is me. Everybody loves Netflix streaming but the money involved is often nothing due to the Starz TV contract, or very little. At an estimated seven cents a stream minus expenses, minus cuts, minus agents and managers, it's going to take a lot of streams to make back even your $10K microbudget feature's money back. Let alone make a profit - which, at the end of the day, is what needs to happen. Only God knows how much Hulu/SnagFilms/etc pay. Which brings us to a problem - nobody knows how much you can make VOD/Streaming/Etc. - making it impossible to budget a movie for these outlets. So basically, you end up with a lot of people making content - both expensive and not and going through channels that don't pay anything. This leaves us with new models that are absolutely clogged with content, most of it not very good, that's making it harder for everybody to get attention. Look at Netflix instant - look at how many "18 Year-Old-Virgin"s are there - compare that to how many time somebody has told you, "Hey did you know [Movie you've been dying to see] is on instant?" - The platforms are muddeled and inefficient already and that hurts a lot. While some of the fat needs to be trimmed (Ok, a LOT of it), it's also pushing out the smaller filmmakers that should be making films, that can add a lot to this business. Everybody's waiting for lightning to strike and the rain to fall... but nobody's sure it's in the forecast. Supercar Gautier posted:Do you find that ideas like this start turning into blind mantras? IE, "We have to adapt an existing property, even if it has absolutely no following or cultural foothold, because EXISTING PROPERTY". Did Kane & Lynch not sell? I have no idea, I'm not big into games. Basically, producers, agents, etc. are as susceptible to hype as anyone else. Does it look like something is going to be huge that we can make money off of? Get it. Sometimes this sort of thing is, "Well, we don't have anything else, we can't afford new property, let's make what we have"
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Nov 16, 2010 00:52
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Honest Thief posted:How close to the truth are any of Robert Evan's stories from his book? I know, like he says "everyone remembers it diferently, and everyone is right" but did he really saved the Godfather from mediocrity? I'm sure they're exaggerated to some degree, everybody does that. As for the Godfather, looking at FFC's other output kinda seems to hint at that. Kull the Conqueror posted:Being an Austin guy, is Richard Linklater as kickass as his movies? Absolutely. He's one of those guys that has a sincere love of everything, from the sun, to the mechanics of a train, to the way light reflects in water. He's the kind of guy that he starts talking and you find yourself not paying attention because he's said something and you just want to think about it for a little bit. Trump posted:Can you give us an idea at what level of productions you are working as PA? PA = Production Assistant - the gofer of a film set. I'm the assistant to a producer, which is a different job. We do productions under $20M. Everybody's still worried about the film biz. DVD sales are just about gone, Piracy is killing us, and nothing is coming along to replace the missing income. 3D is doing nicely for exploitation - Step Up 3D and Jackass 3D, but they're worried that it's time is limited. 3D is mostly there to prevent piracy, and when somebody can download a film and watch it on their 3DTV then you'll see a dramatic drop in 3D movies overnight.
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Nov 16, 2010 01:01
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How long did you have to freelance before you got your current job (assuming it's not a freelance job as well)? I imagine you probably thought about packing it up and moving back home at least once, maybe you still do, but was there a definitive point where that stopped happening? Did you work a regular job while doing film stuff on the side for a while, or where you able to get real work fairly quickly? I've heard you need to have some serious savings before making the move, like to the tune of $10,000. Have you found that to be accurate? I'm seriously considering making the trek. I'm living in Denver right now, working on writing and doing the occasional job as a camera op on the side, when I'm not at my lovely but paying job as a cook. I like it but I need to move somewhere that I'll eventually get paying gigs, and I've heard LA is easier to start in than New York. Really appreciate this thread! Rogetz fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Nov 16, 2010 |
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Nov 16, 2010 01:23
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Neurotic Erotica posted:Todd Sklar Not too surprising that you're friends with him - I had a few film classes with him in college and he's one of those guys that is very, very good at making friends and networking. Nice guy, too.
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Nov 16, 2010 01:32
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Probably a stupid question, but... Is it possible to establish a decent career as a writer if you're not based in LA or New York? I've always been peripherally interested in screenwriting, but I actually like my day job and I'm not a "bet it all on black" kinda guy. Also, how has your taste in movies changed since you moved to LA?
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Nov 16, 2010 02:06
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How do you think Drafthouse Films is going to do? I think they picked a good first film to distribute (Four Lions), and I think everyone involved has a good sense of business, but from what I gather it's not the best time to be going out for yourself in the film business, even on the distribution end.
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Nov 16, 2010 03:51
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Wow, that story about the woman trying to get out of porn was sad. My question is more a request; What's the craziest thing you've seen happen on or around a movie? Feel free to leave names out, of course, but I just wonder what kind of insanity you've seen firsthand. Also chiming in on thanks for doing the thread.
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Nov 16, 2010 03:54
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Have you ever had to endure viciousness or derision from a producer? Corollary: Have you ever had to deal with a boss similar to Kevin Spacey's character in Swimming with Sharks?
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Nov 16, 2010 06:07
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Do Ari Gould's really exist, or are most people in the business friendly and easy to work with?
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Nov 16, 2010 06:57
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Rogetz posted:How long did you have to freelance before you got your current job (assuming it's not a freelance job as well)? First things first, freelancing didn't lead to me getting my job - some people never stop freelancing, nor do they want to, and for some jobs, it's pretty much how the job goes unless you land a job on a TV show or something. That said, I did freelance for about 9 months, but most of it was the music producer's gig. I still freelance here and there for money and if the job seems like it'd be fun or I owe a favor or something. As much as I love Texas/Austin, I've never thought about turning back. A lot of that has been because I've been working steady pretty much since I got here. I've known people who have gone back, and I know people who have thought about it. Homesickness/Desire to leave depends on you and your circumstances - if you're really close to your family or haven't been away then it's going to be harder than it is for a runaway. I've not done outside work, but I'm an exception. I got lucky. I worked my rear end off and went through hell, but I was lucky for the opportunity. I have friends who are working retail to survive while freelancing, and some... I don't know how they get by. $10,000 is how much I suggest. That's in case you don't get a job, that gives you a while to find your footing and try to survive cheaply for a while. Some people have needed more, some have needed less. I think it's just a good number to throw out. Can't say how it compares to NY, but in LA you don't need to buy heavy jackets and winter clothing. That's a plus for me! But seriously, it comes down to if you really want to make a go of it and are willing to give up a lot to try, then you gotta get out here. CloseFriend posted:Probably a stupid question, but... Is it possible to establish a decent career as a writer if you're not based in LA or New York? I've always been peripherally interested in screenwriting, but I actually like my day job and I'm not a "bet it all on black" kinda guy. Oh, it can happen. It has happened plenty of times, but it's rare for sure. It helps that it's a side-hobby. What I would say then is to just start cranking out scripts, make three or four a year. Some will be bad, some will be great. Then start trying to query agencies and screenplay contests and the like. Sadly, that whole side of things isn't one I know much about. I wouldn't say that my taste has changed - I definitely watch less movies - less time, they cost more, etc. I think now I appreciate the smaller films that don't feel small. Like only in one or two rooms but never make you feel claustrophobic. Stuff like that. Otherwise, I like the same stuff I think. FirstCongoWar posted:How do you think Drafthouse Films is going to do? I don't know. I've known the Drafthouse people forever and just cannot say enough good things about them. That said, I don't know if they're going to do a second film - this whole thing seemed like an experiment to see if it could possible. Like I mentioned above, indie film distribution is just lacking, and so Tim starting up a distro is kind of a natural reaction. He sees the same frustration that we all do - good films that get ignored. Four Lions is a great film, but it is somewhat of a third rail when it comes to getting Mid-Westerners on dates to go see it. Think of your parents - It's hard to convince them to go see a comedy where the protagonists are terrorists who kill innocent women and children. I'd love for Tim to succeed, I really would. But starting a distro is hard - every city acts a different way when it comes to what movies they like and what marketing works. It gets really complicated and expensive as the road trip guys have learned. That said, if there's anybody in this world who can beat all the odds by doing something badass - it's Tim League. Barometer posted:My question is more a request; What's the craziest thing you've seen happen on or around a movie? Feel free to leave names out, of course, but I just wonder what kind of insanity you've seen firsthand. I'll come back to this. It'll take way too long to write up right now... Spatula City posted:Have you ever had to endure viciousness or derision from a producer? I have a friend who used to work as the assistant to Scott Rudin, who supposedly Spacey is based off in that movie. I asked him about it and he said that they got the voice wrong. Take that as you will. Personally, I've had decent experiences all around. When people get tired and things aren't going right everybody gets a little mad and often the wrong person catches flack for it. There's a lot of emotional people in this business and sometimes it comes to a head. Most of the time it's isolated and apologies soon come out. shinymodem posted:Do Ari Gould's really exist, or are most people in the business friendly and easy to work with? Ari Gold is based on 4 real life agents including Ari Emanuel who is the brother of Rahm Emanuel. I've heard stories and such, but haven't dealt with any myself. I can see that happening more in the agency world, where it's a real high-pressure environment. It boils down to that this is a business like any other. There can be some jerks, and there can be some people who seem like jerks until you know them, but overall most people are just trying to get by and do what they need to and be nice about it. Problem is when people make a movie or tv show about the industry, people working together and getting along isn't very dramatic.
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Nov 16, 2010 08:28
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Probably a dumb question but... I'm curious about how much it cost to make an average indie film today. I've been writing for sometime now and know that most blockbusters cost well over $100 million to produce, so lets say that I wanted to go out and shoot my own film, how much out of pocket would I have to put up to make a decent film?
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Nov 16, 2010 13:04
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NE, I'm going to hop in, if you don't mind. For some background I work in business and legal affairs at a production company and its sister international distribution company, based in London. We make films in the $6-25m range, and sell films in the $2-25m range, but usually around $5-12m. On our recent production I had a slightly broader role, more akin to production executive, for which I am getting an associate producer credit (probably in the end titles). An editor on a mid-range indie film ($10-20m) will probably make around $100-150k, in my experience. screenwritersblues posted:Probably a dumb question but... How long is a piece of string? Is your film period? Set on water? Does it have car chases and explosions? Lots of locations? or is it an intimate film in a few locations with a small cast? Without knowing the specifics of a story that's impossible to answer. You could probably make a film using amateur actors, a Canon D5 or similar, and edit on a Mac using Final Cut Pro - total cost a few thousand dollars. After that, you will always find ways to spend money. A proper low-budget indie film with decent production value can probably be made for about $2m, including proper compensation for talent, production crew, music, etc, plus some deliverables (it isn';t enough to make the film; you also have to cteate the materials that allow for exploitation, like an interpos, interneg, digital cinema pack, HD masters, digibetas, betacams, sound items, and a boatload of documentation. Speaking of which would anyone be interested in seeing what our delivery schedule (for producers in our capacity as sales agent) or a studio like Miramax's looks like? Where can I post a large PDF? shinymodem posted:Do Ari Gould's really exist, or are most people in the business friendly and easy to work with? Gold. Some agents and lawyers are real assholes, like one who screamed for about ten minutes; generally they are fairly pleasant on the surface but untrustworthy, grasping, rapacious assholes. British agents tend to be, in our experience, nicer than American. There are some exceptions to the assholery; Viggo Mortensen's lawyer, for instance, is terrific, but that's because his client seems like an amazing guy. Lawyers are actually generally more straightforward than agents. Goddamn, I hate agents.
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Nov 16, 2010 14:12
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screenwritersblues posted:Probably a dumb question but... Primer was supposedly made for $7,000.
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Nov 16, 2010 15:22
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therattle posted:NE, I'm going to hop in, if you don't mind. Glad to have you.  therattle posted:Some agents and lawyers are real assholes, like one who screamed for about ten minutes; generally they are fairly pleasant on the surface but untrustworthy, grasping, rapacious assholes. ... Goddamn, I hate agents. He said it, not me  screenwritersblues posted:I'm curious about how much it cost to make an average indie film today. I've been writing for sometime now and know that most blockbusters cost well over $100 million to produce, so lets say that I wanted to go out and shoot my own film, how much out of pocket would I have to put up to make a decent film? There's no real rules or guidelines these days - on the festival circuit there's a lot of microbudget features that are getting attention - some are even good! Generally they're going for $10,000 - $40,000 but that's with nobody getting paid and very little production value. It's really, really, really hard to pull off.
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Nov 16, 2010 18:19
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I'm shooting a microbudget movie now. Well, now I'm editing it. The only one I paid is the sound guy, basically all the other money I had aside is covering my rent so I can focus on the motherfucker for a few months. It's doable, but I'm absolutely sure filming was the cheap part, and my cost is going to explode when I try to take it to festivals and whathaveyou.
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Nov 16, 2010 19:31
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What percentage of people in the industry - that actually work on films, i.e. not agents/lawyers/etc. - have film backgrounds? How feasible is it for somebody to jump in without a film degree or whatever? (With all the necessary caveats about hard work and networking and luck, et al.) A pretty broad, stupid, difficult to answer question but yeah.
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Nov 16, 2010 22:02
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Is piracy as bad of a problem as most execs are making it out to be? Are movie rental services like netflix causing any worry, what with low DVD sales? Is the return on a bought DVD greater than a movie viewed on pay-per-view or rented? The 19th Person fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Nov 16, 2010 |
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Nov 16, 2010 22:17
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Here's a question I've always wondered that you might know. I actually know what both of them make, though of course I won't tell you. What I can give you to consider is that there are Academy Award winning editors who make $3000/wk, and Academy Award winning editors who make $20,000/wk. Possibly more. There are also (again, Academy Award winning) editors who are on retainer at the big studios and who do recuts of lots of movies without taking a credit. There are even a few (a very small number who get "points." Most editors also have 6th Day and 7th Day rates for Saturdays and Sundays. These aren't necessarily based on a standard formula the way the rest of our (union members') 6th Day and 7th Day rates are. I also know of some editors who are brought in as fixers who can charge a flat rate of a half million or a million for a few weeks' work, and in a least one case off the top of my head the "fixer" ultimately got the Directing credit. For perspective, a top 1st Assistant Editor might have a deal in the ballpark of $3000/50 (i.e. they make a minimum of $3000 for a 50 hour week, and their hourly wage is calculated as 3000/55 since they are doing 40 hours at normal time and 10 hours at time and a half, so 40 + [10x1.5] = 55) This means that any day they go over ten hours (which are many days,) their hourly rate for the 11th and 12th hour will be a normal OT rate of 1.5x, then after that the hourly goes up to 2.0x. East Coast members of the Editors Guild go up to 2.5x after 14 hours. West Coast members get a 10% night premium. There's lots of other little details, like turnaround penalties and other crap. 6th Days are at 1.5x your normal rate unless separately negotiated. 7th days are at 2.0x. It is possible, in a crazy week, for assistants to make seven or eight thousand, and I know a couple who've made north of $10,000 in one week. The point of all this is that sometimes the assistants make more than the editors. I bumped into guy I worked with on a big studio movie, who was accustomed to sometimes making more than the editors he worked for, and I asked him how it was going. He told me he was about to start another job with the crazy editor we'd worked for together. I asked him if he, too, was crazy to consider giving that nutjob another year of his life. His response? "What, I'm gonna say no to a quarter million bucks?" For further perspective, I know of some DPs making $25,000 or more weekly. Generally, on a picture of any given size, they are paid more highly than the Editor. But then, they don't work for nearly as long. Any of the top people in any of the other top departments (e.g. Mixers) are paid in similar scales. It's a living.
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Nov 16, 2010 23:15
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In response to the question about Kane & Lynch, sorry I can't seem to quote the post (using the Awful iPhone app while my Avid does a DVD layoff) but very often the film rights and the film production budget/schedule/etc are all in motion before the original IP comes out. If that property (book or game) tanks then you've got a tough choice of how to proceed if you've already sunk millions into the adaptation.
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Nov 16, 2010 23:43
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Regarding a couple of other things- MANY people who work below the line (I'd say the majority) have no "film background," myself included. And pretty much 99% of us are freelance in the sense of having to renegotiate all of our terms on every job (movie) we do- but we are treated as temp employees and put on payroll for the gig. We collect unemployment insurance between gigs.
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Nov 16, 2010 23:49
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The 19th Person posted:Is piracy as bad of a problem as most execs are making it out to be? I'm actually curious about how the studios are responding to Netflix and Redbox kicking the crap out of the now-bankrupt Blockbuster. Is the changing video rental market causing panic to the executives or are they seeing this as a transitional period in the rental industry?
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Nov 17, 2010 00:17
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I have a confession followed by a question, for anybody who wants to take a stab at answering it. Confession: I'm a third-year film student. I'm doing reasonably well at it. I've done some writing, directing, producing and editing (as well as random bitch work) on a variety of short films, dabbled in both narrative and documentary, worked with 16mm and digital and dealt with all kinds of equipment and software. Basically I jumped right in the deep end and I'm getting tons of solid hands-on experience, including credits on some stuff that will end up in festivals. I can't claim to be a pro yet, but it's getting to the point where it's more than a hobby, and I kinda sorta actually know some poo poo about making films. Question: Okay... I've done many things, but directing is the thing I'm best at. If we were to assume, for the sake of argument, that I'm a loving genius at this, what are my odds of actually becoming a professional director? Let's say I have no desire to spend thousands of dollars of my own money making some indie vanity project that will languish in obscurity, but I have a work ethic and a good-looking reel, and I actually want to get out there and get myself hired for pro work. I don't need to make my four-hour magnum opus on day one; I'd be thrilled with directing TV shows or commercials. How is the supply/demand situation in the real world for people with directing skills? Is it 100% about being somebody's nephew (I'm not) or having a ton of money (I don't) or is it possible to just make it by being good at the job? I know a lot of people think they're good directors (lord knows I have met enough of those) but I like to imagine I have a pretty realistic view of what the job actually entails. It's not about being some mighty wizard whose loving vision is unimpeachable, it's about follow-through... having a firm sense of the big picture, remembering stupid details, knowing how to talk to actors / crew, getting good coverage, making snap decisions, etc. It's also about endlessly compromising and rolling with the punches. It's tough work, but it's work I seriously enjoy, people seem to like working with me, and I've actually made some cool poo poo happen with extremely limited resources. My fear is that none of this matters, and I will end up flipping burgers. Confirm/deny?
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Nov 17, 2010 08:35
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penismightier posted:I'm shooting a microbudget movie now. Well, now I'm editing it. The only one I paid is the sound guy, basically all the other money I had aside is covering my rent so I can focus on the motherfucker for a few months. It's doable, but I'm absolutely sure filming was the cheap part, and my cost is going to explode when I try to take it to festivals and whathaveyou. Hire a publicist. Also, read the book at http://www.filmfestivalsecrets.com/ it'll help you a ton if you're not familiar with the circuit. Criminal Minded posted:What percentage of people in the industry - that actually work on films, i.e. not agents/lawyers/etc. - have film backgrounds? How feasible is it for somebody to jump in without a film degree or whatever? (With all the necessary caveats about hard work and networking and luck, et al.) A pretty broad, stupid, difficult to answer question but yeah. I can't imagine what the percentage. I never have any idea if somebody has a degree or not. The higher you get the less it is though. I can't imagine a DP not having a master's from AFI or something like that since it's such a tough position to get into. But like most crew members it's mostly about experience. If you start working in whatever department you can on shoots for free and busting your rear end you can potentially* make it. But not having a degree or anything doesn't matter if you have experience. If you have lofty ambitions, then you should look into it, mostly because it's giving you a dedication to the practice. * can't make any guarantees as much as I'd like to. The 19th Person posted:Is piracy as bad of a problem as most execs are making it out to be? Dr. Video Games 0055 posted:I'm actually curious about how the studios are responding to Netflix and Redbox kicking the crap out of the now-bankrupt Blockbuster. Is the changing video rental market causing panic to the executives or are they seeing this as a transitional period in the rental industry? Piracy is definitely a problem. There's no two ways about it. Case in point: Scott Pilgrim - It's catered to the audience that is the most likely to download a film and you know what happened? You developed a rabid fanbase on the internet that didn't pay a dime for the movie that complains that Hollywood doesn't make movies for them. The problem is the worst for the indies. We operate on small margins and when people pirates it, it really hurts. I have a producer friend who frequently meets people who tell him how much they love his film and even volunteer the fact that they downloaded it. It's kinda insulting. They tell him over twitter, too. I don't even understand that part of it. I understand @'ing people if you wanna suck up and all, but to tell them "hey I ripped off your product and I loved it!" is just kinda ridiculous. A ton of people on my feed were tweeting Kanye the same thing. I don't get it. Netflix/Streaming services are currently a hope to supplement income from the lack of DVD sales. The industry is doing a somewhat better of catching up to technological trends than it's historical pace. The demand to watch a movie at home hasn't changed, but the desire to own a DVD for a lot of people has. They take up a lot of space, they look tacky, somebody comes into your home and judges you on your taste, and most of the time you only watch it once. For $20 it's not worth it. The last DVD I bought was Medicine For Melancholy because I was so happy that it got a release. I don't even have a working DVD player anymore now that my drive in my MBP went out. A lot of people are the same way. Can't recall the last time they were thrilled to get a DVD, and the collateral is just too much. Look at Blu-Ray, it hasn't really caught on for many of the same reasons. So things have shifted. People still want movies. People even want HD content, but DVD/Blu-Ray isn't really cutting it. So Netflix and VOD are trying to fill the voids. It's shaky at best right now. Netflix operates with a ton of loopholes to where in many cases it's doubtful you'll see any money or it may be a part of your TV contract. But at least somebody is getting paid for people watching the movie. That's honestly a step up. My biggest problem is that Netflix Instant Watch with it's flat rate and things like Red Box are reducing the cost of a movie too much. When it costs nothing or a buck to watch Grown Ups at home versus paying $12 to go see Jack Goes Boating at the theater, it's going to affect people's decisions. While watching Grown Ups may be one of the worst decisions somebody could make, it's easier and cheaper than going out for a better movie. It's going to start cannibalizing income streams at some point. As for the returns, I can't really say. Margins on DVDs are a pretty closely held secret and there's a lot of factors that go into it - which company put it out, etc. Same with PPV/VOD/Streaming/Cable TV/Broadcast/etc. There's so many factors that it's impossible to put out a blanket statement that x form makes more than y. Nerd Of Prey posted:I have a confession followed by a question, for anybody who wants to take a stab at answering it. Lemme put it this way - there's an A-list director that I very much look up to, that this whole forum does, that is broke. I mean broke. You can be brilliant and beloved but still broke. How is the supply/demand situation? Director is the most sought-after position after Actor. Who doesn't want to do it? I'm trying to send my career that way - lemme tell you, it's really loving hard! It's not being about somebody's nephew, it's about being insanely talented. What you want to do is so scattershot, I can't tell what you actually want to do. Actually, from your post, is directing what you want to do? gently caress what you're good at, what do you want to do? Getting into this poo poo is a huge, huge decision - if this isn't what you really, really, really want, don't do it. There's no reason to go through the sacrifices and the struggle if this isn't what you can't live without. A lot of people get asked that and they just say "yeah, this is what I want" - NO - THINK ABOUT IT. THINK LONG AND HARD. So far you're not convincing me. You don't want to make an indie flick? What do you want? Do you think that self-financed indie films are vanity flicks? They're career investments, even when they don't sell. Getting into directing TV/Commercials is another beast. Commercials are how most directors stay afloat. David Lynch pays his bills this way. Errol Morris pays his bills this way. To get in to commercials, you're competing with these people. And again - THINK ABOUT IF THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT. Commercials are a way for film directors to make money; it's not a way for directors to get into making films. It's very rare. How did Marc Webb get (500) Days of Summer? By directing half of the commercials for the Super Bowl. Same for TV - TV is a radically different beast and seldom leads to directing films. Directing TV is a lot about hitting marks, keeping pace and such. The Office has brought in a slew of film directors to direct the show. Have you ever noticed a difference? Before you work out the logistics of a career you need to figure out what kind of career you are going to strive for. YOU WILL spend a lot of money trying to get it, YOU WILL struggle a lot, YOU WILL starve, YOU WILL call in every favor you can, YOU WILL beg, borrow, steal to get what you need, YOU WILL end up working day jobs to stay afloat, YOU WILL wonder why you ever started down this path in the first place - you'll save yourself a lot of heartache/time/money/spirit if you find that you have a much better time functioning in some other way. I'm not trying to be hard, I'm trying to be realistic.
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Nov 17, 2010 10:50
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Are you allowed to 'volunteer' on films, so as to make connections and meet people?
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Nov 17, 2010 10:54
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Red posted:Are you allowed to 'volunteer' on films, so as to make connections and meet people? Seconding all that NE and 5 cent have to say. Some films allow for interns, which will get you some on-set experience. There are also formal interning schemes. Regarding film degrees, of all the people I work with at a film production and international distribution co, I think 2 have some kind of film related background in their studies; so if it's the business side of things you're interested in, which an interest in film is essential, a qualification in film is not. Agents and lawyers work on filsm! Although they are not involved in the physical manufacturing of films. Where do you draw the line?
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Nov 17, 2010 11:37
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NeuroticErotica posted:Lemme put it this way - there's an A-list director that I very much look up to, that this whole forum does, that is broke. I mean broke. You can be brilliant and beloved but still broke. Well, first of all, Thanks. I appreciate you taking the time to type all that, and you made some really excellent points. I don't mind you tellin' it like it is - it's why I asked. I guess the best thing I can say is that I know what I want, in my heart of hearts, and it's not to be rich or famous or powerful or beloved. I like having a roof over my head and a hot meal now and then, but the reason I chose this path in my life is that I loving love it. I really do. When I say I'd be happy to work in TV or whatever, I mean I would be happy to be doing this in any way, even if I'm doing boring work for assholes. If I'm making a movie, I'm happy. I can't say that about many things... even many things I'm good at. I'm over 30, I've been around the block, and here I've finally found something that I truly love to do, so I want to keep doing it. But yeah, I'm aware that competition is fierce. It might be worth pointing out that I also enjoy editing a lot, and it might be a more reasonable way to try to pay the bills. Then again, if all I wanted was a reasonable way to pay the bills, I'd be a pharmacist. I guess the question is, if I'm going to run into just as much competition making a beer commercial as I would making a feature... should I just try to dive straight into making a feature? If I know exactly what movie I want to make, should I just get out there and immediately start pitching it? P.S. To anybody out there wondering "is film school necessary?" I was asking myself the same thing at one point and I found the answer: Yes, get a loving education. Not because it worked for me (as yet untested), but because I was sitting there same as every other rear end in a top hat thinking "I've seen a lot of movies, I basically know how they work" and I couldn't have been more wrong. There is a wealth of knowledge out there about the art, science and business of films that I am so glad I tapped into. You can try to just luck into a career, but why the gently caress would you do that when you have the option to go into it adequately prepared? Even just knowing some basic terminology is going to give you a leg up. If you're a PA and a gaffer asks you for a stinger, you'll know what the gently caress that means, and you won't get fired. If you are absolutely sure that school is somehow beyond your means, at least go and read some books. There are a lot of good books.
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Nov 17, 2010 11:43
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NeuroticErotica posted:Lemme put it this way - there's an A-list director that I very much look up to, that this whole forum does, that is broke. I mean broke. You can be brilliant and beloved but still broke. I've always liked the extra on the Magnolia disc that shows Paul Thomas Anderson celebrating its success in his tiny little house.
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Nov 17, 2010 17:16
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Nerd Of Prey posted:P.S. To anybody out there wondering "is film school necessary?" I was asking myself the same thing at one point and I found the answer: Yes, get a loving education. Not because it worked for me (as yet untested), but because I was sitting there same as every other rear end in a top hat thinking "I've seen a lot of movies, I basically know how they work" and I couldn't have been more wrong. There is a wealth of knowledge out there about the art, science and business of films that I am so glad I tapped into. You can try to just luck into a career, but why the gently caress would you do that when you have the option to go into it adequately prepared? Even just knowing some basic terminology is going to give you a leg up. If you're a PA and a gaffer asks you for a stinger, you'll know what the gently caress that means, and you won't get fired. If you are absolutely sure that school is somehow beyond your means, at least go and read some books. There are a lot of good books. Film school doesn't hurt, but it certainly is not necessary for most jobs. Every film grad I know with real world experience has concluded that the value of what they've learned in the real world dwarfs everything they learned in film school. Every film grad I know that has yet to start working believes their education is/was valuable. The common denominator of every meaningful/educational/inspirational conversation I've had about making movies is that it was with someone that has years of experience. A friend just got off directing a 7 figure feature and says film school was not necessary to prepare him for a single directorial responsibility. What did prepare him? Everything he did on his own that film school had no hand in. He still learns on the job, and isn't even sure he wants a career as a film director!
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Nov 17, 2010 21:06
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I'm not as in the business as NE, therattle, or others, but I can chime in on some of this if nobody minds. My quick background: I have a film degree from USC, and was about a semester away from a minor in music production. I then went to law school, originally with the intention of backdooring into the industry or working entertainment law. However, I left law school much less interested in the entertainment industry than a newly discovered love for real estate and other financial transactions. My legal work has primarily avoided the entertainment industry. However, I work in business and finance in Los Angeles, and as such I've worked in one of our biggest business and finance industries: hollywood. Most of my work is on the finance side, representing lenders, major studios, or other money sources, working across from the creative side, but I've been exposed to everything from a two day lease to shoot at a house to a talent contract for a famous poker player to develop a reality show, and a lot of stuff in between. I also have the standard "worked on some small projects, still help out friends from time to time, was a PA on shoots during the summers in college" background typical of most LA film students. I also have friends - from film school, law school, and connections I've made over time - with a lof of experience in all facets of the entertainment industry, ranging from a lawyer friend who is taking screenwriting classes and starting to submit screenplays on the side, to people who have worked as show runners and head writers for emmy-award winning tv shows, and a lot in between. Hopefully I can answer some questions in this thread that are from a different viewpoint than NE or others who had more balls than I and were able to make it in the industry.
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Nov 18, 2010 02:56
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Supercar Gautier posted:Do you find that ideas like this start turning into blind mantras? IE, "We have to adapt an existing property, even if it has absolutely no following or cultural foothold, because EXISTING PROPERTY". I'll give you a different side of the equation. Remakes are made by studios. Studios have money. Studios must consistently spend that money to acquire assets to make more money. Studios have financing in place. Studios must secure that financing with assets. If the studio's assets fall below a certain ratio to the studio's debt, the studio is in deep poo poo and everyone is fired. As a movie lover, if you come to me with something unique or original, I want to hear it, and I'm going to want to give you money for it if I like what I hear. As a lawyer, if you come to me with that same deal, I'll cut you off before you get two words in and ask to see an appraisal (to use a generic term). You are asking my client to give you money. My client has stockholders. If your movie fails, my clients stockholders lose money, and my client contact is fired, and I don't have a client. If my client loans you money that is grossly undersecured, he could face criminal liability. In other words, it is illegal for my client to loan you money if he does not reasonably expect to make an acceptable return on investment. At the end of the day, these are people with jobs who have to do their jobs to keep their jobs. An unknown source is an unpredictable value and therefore a risky investment. It might make the difference between a 2% above prime loan versus an 8% above prime loan. If it was a $50mm loan, then the original is (roughly) $3mm a year more expensive than the remake just on financing alone. There are people in this world who get rich taking risks. There are far more people who are already rich and get richer putting their money to work in safer investments. Major entertainment companies fall in the latter category. CloseFriend posted:Probably a stupid question, but... Is it possible to establish a decent career as a writer if you're not based in LA or New York? I've always been peripherally interested in screenwriting, but I actually like my day job and I'm not a "bet it all on black" kinda guy. Like someone already said with the Country Music analogy: you can't network if you aren't living and working near other writers. Meeting other writers gives you friends to bounce ideas off, peers to work in groups to review your scripts, and most importantly, contacts who know other people already more established in the industry. You know the old catch-22: you can't submit a script without an agent, and you can't get an agent without someone accepting one of your scripts? If you aren't in LA or NY, you don't make the friends who will introduce you to your future agent. It's possible, just much harder. Criminal Minded posted:What percentage of people in the industry - that actually work on films, i.e. not agents/lawyers/etc. - have film backgrounds? How feasible is it for somebody to jump in without a film degree or whatever? (With all the necessary caveats about hard work and networking and luck, et al.) A pretty broad, stupid, difficult to answer question but yeah. therattle posted:Seconding all that NE and 5 cent have to say. Some films allow for interns, which will get you some on-set experience. There are also formal interning schemes. ynotony posted:Film school doesn't hurt, but it certainly is not necessary for most jobs. Every film grad I know with real world experience has concluded that the value of what they've learned in the real world dwarfs everything they learned in film school. Every film grad I know that has yet to start working believes their education is/was valuable. The common denominator of every meaningful/educational/inspirational conversation I've had about making movies is that it was with someone that has years of experience. This is what I tell everyone about film school: 1. The best thing you learn in film school is how to meet people and work with them. If you aren't social (and I wasn't), film school will force you to learn how to network. It is the single most important skill you will learn for any business, but especially the entertainment industry. These are the people who will get you jobs later in life. I didn't believe that then, but gently caress is it true. 2. If you, at 18, know you want to work in film, and know specifically what area you want to work in, there are schools that are great for getting you experience and a reputation to come out strong. My cousin was a writer/director/storyboard artist on SpongeBob and a lot of other Nick/CN cartoons. He always knew he wanted to do animation. He went to CalArts for animation. He has worked since. His friend, though, realized halfway through he wanted to do something or other (aka not animation). His degree is great for talking at parties, but he left college basically in the same position as if he left high school, but in a lot more debt. I think he ended up working for verizon. 3. If you, at 18, were as lost as I was and just knew you liked movies, then go to a college where your degree, whatever it is, will help you for the rest of your life. I went into USC undeclared, and while I loved film, I applied to the film school partly because I figured I wouldn't get in and it would give me a chance to figure out what else I wanted to do (I had applied to the screenwriting program while still in high school and was rightfully rejected). Of my classmates, not all of us went into film, but all of us left with at the end of the day with a B.A. from a respected school. Of my friends from USC who work in the industry, I'd say half took a film class here or there but had other majors, and the other half were film/music students with me. The degree itself, and just what you learn in college in general, was way more helpful than having that degree in film. Edit: therattle posted:Some agents and lawyers are real assholes, like one who screamed for about ten minutes; generally they are fairly pleasant on the surface but untrustworthy, grasping, rapacious assholes. British agents tend to be, in our experience, nicer than American. There are some exceptions to the assholery; Viggo Mortensen's lawyer, for instance, is terrific, but that's because his client seems like an amazing guy. Lawyers are actually generally more straightforward than agents. Goddamn, I hate agents. I 100% agree with this statement. The only thing worse than an rear end in a top hat lawyer is an rear end in a top hat agent (who probably is also a lawyer, or at least thinks he is). Voodoofly fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Nov 18, 2010 |
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Nov 18, 2010 03:43
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