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magiccarpet
Jan 3, 2005



Thing X used to be in FCP and now its gone
- A third party developer will surely make something to fix this
But you don't allow plugins
- ....

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bassguitarhero
Feb 29, 2008

Peace


You mean unlike all the third party plugins that were announced in the last couple days?

magiccarpet
Jan 3, 2005



bassguitarhero posted:

You mean unlike all the third party plugins that were announced in the last couple days?

Yes the $500 Automatic Duck plugin to put functionality back into FCP that was taken out for no reason. So now your upgrade costs $800.

bassguitarhero
Feb 29, 2008

Peace


It's still a plugin. You just said the software doesn't allow plugins and yet there they are. BorisFX and FX Factory have both announced new plugin sets for FCPX, so obviously plugins are happening.

I mean, sure you can complain that the old plugins don't work anymore, but that happens anytime there's a major change in the codebase. I lost a bunch of plugins when I went from AE CS4 to CS5.5, since it's now 64 bit. Them's the breaks.

Note that I have not used FCPX (I'm still on FCP6 at home, some clients have 7), I don't expect to purchase it for some time but I'm not gonna rage about it. FCP6 handles all my needs currently so I don't see what's really worth getting so upset about.

HopWallace
Sep 8, 2004

free balloon day

Not sure if this is already commonly known or if it's just a bunch of , but here's an interesting theory, quoted from the Apple Support Communities Discussions Board:

quote:

From a Professional standpoint, the current version of FCPX is unusable on so many levels due to the absence of basic features that made FCP series the juggernaut it was until yesterday.

Here's my prediction of HOW Apple plans to distribute Plug-ins and Add-ons:

Apple is pushing towards a single, universal OS -- most likely a glorified iOS. And they're forcing FCPX users to upgrade to Lion so they have Appstore on their machines just to buy FCPX. Matter of fact, theyi're seeing more profit from Appstore/iTunes than their own computers! Ever since the success of the Appstore -- Apple/Jobs has been pushing to create products and services that will bring even more profit to the Appstore/iTunes business model.

Hence the release of the iPad and the development of iPad apps -- and the move to with OSX Lion.

The reason for this is so that Apple can take their flagship software like FCP --- and monetize all 3rd-party plug-ins and add-ons.

SO, once Apple has a consumer using FCPX, if they want Multi-cam or Import/Export features -- you will have to buy it as an add-on and sell all FCPX plug-ins and add-ons THROUGH THE APPSTORE.

Furthermore -- Apple will most likely force all 3rd-party developers to build plug-ins for FCPX as an APP -- and sell it THROUGH THE APPSTORE -- where Apple gets 30% commission -- stealing that money away from the developers, who in the past with FCP7, you were able to purchase directly from the developer.

SO -- FCPX isn't a revolution in editing....

FCPX is a revolution in MONETIZING FINAL CUT PRO PLUG-INS through the APPSTORE!

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3134732?tstart=0

While the inconsistencies in his argument have been addressed (Apple is not requiring an upgrade to Lion for the upgrade, and the more important counterpoint that 3rd party plugins have started to be released), I do think it illuminates a very possible and likely future of the product upon the release of Lion.

It just seems logical from Apple's business model, that with the release of Lion, the "fixed" FCP X will be also be released with a set of plugins that must be purchased separately through the app store.

Eventually it seems, the future of FCP is that Apple will only develop the foundation for the program, hence the low $300 tag, but the professional capacity of the program will rely almost entirely on plugins which will be available exclusively through their app store. Thus, the total cost of the program is completely at the discretion of the developer of said plugins. Apple spends nothing on developing the software, and gets to cash in on the program in the same way they've cashed in on the app store from all of their iDevices. Makes complete sense from a business standpoint.

magiccarpet
Jan 3, 2005



HopWallace posted:

Not sure if this is already commonly known or if it's just a bunch of , but here's an interesting theory, quoted from the Apple Support Communities Discussions Board:


https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3134732?tstart=0

While the inconsistencies in his argument have been addressed (Apple is not requiring an upgrade to Lion for the upgrade, and the more important counterpoint that 3rd party plugins have started to be released), I do think it illuminates a very possible and likely future of the product upon the release of Lion.

It just seems logical from Apple's business model, that with the release of Lion, the "fixed" FCP X will be also be released with a set of plugins that must be purchased separately through the app store.

Eventually it seems, the future of FCP is that Apple will only develop the foundation for the program, hence the low $300 tag, but the professional capacity of the program will rely almost entirely on plugins which will be available exclusively through their app store. Thus, the total cost of the program is completely at the discretion of the developer of said plugins. Apple spends nothing on developing the software, and gets to cash in on the program in the same way they've cashed in on the app store from all of their iDevices. Makes complete sense from a business standpoint.

If that was the case, they should be telling people this. The lack of communication from Apple is frustrating. Also, this will just balloon the price back up where its longer an upgrade, but a full software purchase.

What this does, though, is fragment the user base. I used to manage 20 machines that were tethered together by an XServe. Each machine had AE, but only some had various Trapcode plugins. So, we could only alter those specific projects on specific machines. Annoying.

Again, if this was the case, they should have put out a balls out 'full' version of the software, and then sold the base version with the ability to purchase add-ons. I can get down with that- some people don't need it all.

Meanwhile, Adobe has people all over the RED boards picking up everyone who is pissed off.

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


magiccarpet posted:

If that was the case, they should be telling people this. The lack of communication from Apple is frustrating.

It's been like 3 days. I don't know about you but my work has been getting done just the same since Wednesday.

magiccarpet
Jan 3, 2005



butterypancakes posted:

It's been like 3 days. I don't know about you but my work has been getting done just the same since Wednesday.

I put things on HDCAM SR tape when finished and need an external monitor for color correction. So I don't use this product.

bassguitarhero
Feb 29, 2008

Peace


The big problem with that is that none of it's true - Apple pushes out tons of free patches over the App Store and withholding key features as paid updates would kill adoption rates for a piece of software that's *already* getting tons of extremely negative reviews.

On top of that you can already buy new plugins and install them outside of the App Store, as Automatic Duck, BorisFX and FXFactory already have plugin packages for FCPX that they're selling through their websites.

They're not gonna sell a two-tiered version of the software, they already have that - iMovie. Apple will patch in remaining functionality that production houses require, while new users will adopt it and learn it and work as it's essentially a public beta.

My guess is that when FCP7 got pushed out the door they devoted all the resources to the complete rewrite, but weren't willing to skip an entire development cycle, so they pushed what they had out the door so people can start using it while they continue working on it. Not the best of moves, as it would have been nice to see them come out with the whole shebang at once, but if the choice was between release this this summer, or release nothing at all, they decided to go that route.

It seems like they're catering to the fastest-growing segment of the industry, which is home/home-office users who go out and shoot on T2is and 5Ds and want to come home and edit something really quickly and push it out the door. The current functionality is perfect for that, while adding the legacy items like tape support and such, will come over time. The big production houses aren't going to switch over on day 1 anyways, so the wailing and gnashing of teeth will happen either way you look at it.

Ishamael
Feb 18, 2004

You don't have to love me, but you will respect me.

butterypancakes posted:

Yeah, they only care about iDevices, that's why they spent lots of time and money rewriting FCP from scratch. It'll be updated, if it doesn't work for you then use 7. My main client still has 6, it's fine.

Not sure why people are so disappointed, it's not ready, so don't use it yet.

The reason I am disappointed is that they have stopped selling new licenses for FCP 7. So if you didn't buy FCP 7 before this new unusable piece of poo poo came out, you are screwed for at least a year.

At work this isn't an issue, but I am in the planning stages for buying a new editing system at home, and now I am screwed.

magiccarpet
Jan 3, 2005



bassguitarhero posted:

They're not gonna sell a two-tiered version of the software, they already have that - iMovie. Apple will patch in remaining functionality that production houses require, while new users will adopt it and learn it and work as it's essentially a public beta.


While you are right (according to some thoughts that are being posted about multicam on some other sites) the basic media directory structure is not going to play well in a multi user environment. You simply cannot share a project with anyone else, on any other system, without a complete re-write of the management.

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


magiccarpet posted:

I put things on HDCAM SR tape when finished and need an external monitor for color correction. So I don't use this product.

Is this some sort of dick measurement? I don't care.

Your workflow doesn't all ready include some sort of real finishing software? Automatic Duck your way on over to that.

MrBond
Feb 19, 2004

FYI, Cheese NIPS are not the same as Cheez ITS

Apparently they've communicated some responses to David Pogue.

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2011...inal-cut-pro-x/

magiccarpet
Jan 3, 2005



butterypancakes posted:

Is this some sort of dick measurement? I don't care.

Your workflow doesn't all ready include some sort of real finishing software? Automatic Duck your way on over to that.

No, I make TV spots. So I put them on tape, as thats the preferred delivery method. And I use Color to CC them. With the new software I cant, and now (if I were to use this software) I'd have to shell out 500 bucks to duck it to Resolve or something.

Ishamael
Feb 18, 2004

You don't have to love me, but you will respect me.

MrBond posted:

Apparently they've communicated some responses to David Pogue.

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2011...inal-cut-pro-x/

That isn't very helpful, you need a reporter who actually knows what the product is used for to ask the right questions.

CaptainViolence
Apr 19, 2006
Kicker of Asses

Ishamael posted:

The reason I am disappointed is that they have stopped selling new licenses for FCP 7. So if you didn't buy FCP 7 before this new unusable piece of poo poo came out, you are screwed for at least a year.

At work this isn't an issue, but I am in the planning stages for buying a new editing system at home, and now I am screwed.

Wait, what? They seriously stopped selling FCP 7 licenses for this? That sounds insane.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Yeah, if you still want to purchase FCP7 your only bet is to order it from some retailer and hope they have enough stock on hand.

thunderspanks
Nov 5, 2003

crucify this

Ishamael posted:

The reason I am disappointed is that they have stopped selling new licenses for FCP 7.

I've taken a lot of digs at apple based on the information about FCPX I've heard in this thread (I work in a post house, but I'm not a video editor myself) however that just takes the cake. This would be pretty much the point where it crossed from "apple is screwing us again" to "what the gently caress are they thinking?".

exp0n
Oct 17, 2004

roll the tapes

.

exp0n fucked around with this message at Jan 1, 2014 around 01:08

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo
dreamy...


exponentory posted:

All problems aside, scrubbing through a fully rendered sequence is delightfully fast.

Yeah, there are some really nice things going on under the hood, which is part of what makes the rest of it such a drat shame.

magiccarpet
Jan 3, 2005



The slow audio scrub is really nice too. One of my favorite additions.

nbv4
Aug 21, 2002

by Duchess Gummybuns




How can I change the resolution of the sequencer? In the screenshot, there is a 1 second interval between 'ticks', but I need to sync some audio and video up that require millisecond precision. (Obviously using Premiere Pro CS5.5)

CaptainViolence
Apr 19, 2006
Kicker of Asses

nbv4 posted:



How can I change the resolution of the sequencer? In the screenshot, there is a 1 second interval between 'ticks', but I need to sync some audio and video up that require millisecond precision. (Obviously using Premiere Pro CS5.5)



Drag the light gray part of that bar back and forth.

nbv4
Aug 21, 2002

by Duchess Gummybuns


CaptainViolence posted:



Drag the light gray part of that bar back and forth.

That just changes the zoom. I want to be able to place an audio channel so that it starts at 0:01:14.38 instead of just on 0:01:14.00 seconds. Does that make sense? Right now I can only place items on the ticks. As I drag an audio channel across the sequencer, it snaps to the ticks.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


I don't think any NLE will give you that kind of precision when it comes to audio - the smallest increment you can edit with is 1 frame. If you need more precision, you need to bounce your project to a dedicated audio editor.

Two Worlds
Feb 3, 2009



1st AD posted:

I don't think any NLE will give you that kind of precision when it comes to audio - the smallest increment you can edit with is 1 frame. If you need more precision, you need to bounce your project to a dedicated audio editor.

Actually, this is something that FCPX does do.

FLX
Sep 18, 2005

___
/'''''''\
[|O_O|]
v


nbv4 posted:



How can I change the resolution of the sequencer? In the screenshot, there is a 1 second interval between 'ticks', but I need to sync some audio and video up that require millisecond precision. (Obviously using Premiere Pro CS5.5)

At the right there's a menu where you can switch to audio units:


Edit: While you can move and trim audio tracks more precisely like this, a video track's smallest resolution is still one frame, even when you move/trim a video clip in audio mode. Make sure to switch back to video units before editing video tracks again to not get sub-frame gaps or misalignments, since those will be "rounded up" to the next full video frame.


Edit 2: I think the shortcut in Premiere to move a selected clip by the currently smallest increment in the timeline (1 frame or 1 audio unit respectively) is ALT-left/right arrow. For ten units at a time it's SHIFT-ALT-left/right arrow.

FLX fucked around with this message at Jun 27, 2011 around 06:36

NINbuntu 64
Feb 10, 2007



Two Worlds posted:

Actually, this is something that FCPX does do.

It's also something FCP7 did as well. Nice to know they left something in.

nbv4
Aug 21, 2002

by Duchess Gummybuns


FLX posted:

At the right there's a menu where you can switch to audio units:


Edit: While you can move and trim audio tracks more precisely like this, a video track's smallest resolution is still one frame, even when you move/trim a video clip in audio mode. Make sure to switch back to video units before editing video tracks again to not get sub-frame gaps or misalignments, since those will be "rounded up" to the next full video frame.


Edit 2: I think the shortcut in Premiere to move a selected clip by the currently smallest increment in the timeline (1 frame or 1 audio unit respectively) is ALT-left/right arrow. For ten units at a time it's SHIFT-ALT-left/right arrow.

This is what I'm trying to create: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EHBdhVubNQ

Basically, I have 4 videos with the same soundtrack that I need to overlap exactly onto each other. Each video has it's own soundtrack, which is just music that the camera's built in crappy mic picked up. I'm only using that audio to match the videos together. The final product will have the mp3's playing directly.

In the example I posted, each dance track is off by a few seconds (I'm too lazy to get them synced up better because I can't get it perfect anyways), which is why it kind of looks weird. How can I get them exactly synced up in Premiere? This is my first foray into video editing, so I need a little help

powderific
May 13, 2004



You could just be lazy and buy plural eyes.

Gunjin
Apr 27, 2004

Om nom nom

Set your sequence settings for audio to display "audio samples"
Unlink the video & audio tracks
In the timeline fly-out menu, checkmark "show audio time units"
Right click the counter to show "audio samples" instead of miliseconds
Now nudging the audio with alt+arrowkey or dragging the audio track should be subframe

nbv4
Aug 21, 2002

by Duchess Gummybuns


Gunjin posted:

Set your sequence settings for audio to display "audio samples"
Unlink the video & audio tracks
In the timeline fly-out menu, checkmark "show audio time units"
Right click the counter to show "audio samples" instead of miliseconds
Now nudging the audio with alt+arrowkey or dragging the audio track should be subframe

Ah thanks, this is how I got it to work.

By the way, does anybody have any recommendations on the best way to blend each video together. Right now I have the opacity set to 25% for each video. Is there a better way? Also, which blending mode should I use (color burn, linear burn, overlay, dissolve, luminosity, etc)?

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


My coworker found an interesting bug in FCP X today. If you import video into FCP X, no matter what you do to it, After Effects will not open it complaining about some Unicode error. It seems that FCP X adds meta data to the file that AE can't read, and refuses to import it. Even converting the video after import using QT7 or Compressor still won't allow AE to open it.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Is this video that's transcoded within FCPX? Because I have some clips that were ingested from FCP7 in a current FCPX project and they work in After Effects CS5. I also don't see any evidence that the clips were modified (going off the date modified field in Finder).

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


1st AD posted:

Is this video that's transcoded within FCPX? Because I have some clips that were ingested from FCP7 in a current FCPX project and they work in After Effects CS5. I also don't see any evidence that the clips were modified (going off the date modified field in Finder).

Yeah they were imported directly with FCPX from a T2i. The files converted to ProRes in FCP6 work just fine.

Mozzie
Oct 26, 2007


oh man FCPX is such a piece of poo poo. Someone brought it into my friends office and just 30 minutes with it they convinced their boss to go completely avid next quarter

thunderspanks
Nov 5, 2003

crucify this

More on the "FCPX is really imovie" bandwagon (just emailed to me by our senior video editor) http://provideocoalition.com/index....tly_from_apple/

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


thunderspanks posted:

More on the "FCPX is really imovie" bandwagon (just emailed to me by our senior video editor) http://provideocoalition.com/index....tly_from_apple/

The dumbest thing I've read in a long time... and this last week on this side of the internet has been nuts.

Apple will fix FCP X. If you're really into knee jerk decisions go ahead and jump ship.

NINbuntu 64
Feb 10, 2007



butterypancakes posted:

The dumbest thing I've read in a long time... and this last week on this side of the internet has been nuts.

Apple will fix FCP X. If you're really into knee jerk decisions go ahead and jump ship.

You know you don't have to be a blatant apologist, right? Apple shipped an awful product missing key features that are part of a lot of people's workflows and for good reason they're jumping ship. Especially considering Apple's track record for keeping their Pro Suite updated.

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sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo
dreamy...


butterypancakes posted:

The dumbest thing I've read in a long time... and this last week on this side of the internet has been nuts.

Apple will fix FCP X. If you're really into knee jerk decisions go ahead and jump ship.

There's no ship to jump. People are fond of saying "it's a complete ground-up rewrite" to defend it, but the reality of that is that transitioning from FCP7 to FCPX is the same as going from FCP7 to Avid or Premiere.

People can either stick with what they have (FCP7), or transition to a completely new product (Avid, Premiere, or FCPX). But the platform FCP7 users are on right now is effectively gone, with no more support and no ability to purchase further licenses. Going to FCPX is "jumping ship" as much as any other transition... the only difference being that it's at a worse place right now than the alternatives.

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