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averox
Feb 28, 2005




Here's Dave Baumann, the 5800 series product manager, somewhat on the issue at hand:

quote:

While there are Six TMDS/DP transmitters, there are only 2 clock sources on the ASIC. The issue with legacy display is that they all need their own clock generator - as soon as you plug in two DVI/VGA/HDMI you run out of clock sources. DP can time multiple outputs from a single clock generator.




Goddamn my reading comprehension is terrible. Even after he came back to correct himself. You're completely correct about the context.
VVVVVVVVV

averox fucked around with this message at Dec 11, 2010 around 22:24

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Grog
Mar 31, 2007

Some things man was not meant to tamper with.


No, let's just straighten this out now so that it stops being an issue. The quote taken was only part of the full sentence, and so it was taken out of context and assumed to be talking about Eyefinity.

DrDork posted:

Like basically every card made in the last 5+ years, ATI cards incorporate a pair of physical chips that handle the digital output: this is what allows you to use two DVI ports simultaneously (or HDMI, or one of each). ATI takes this setup and tosses another bunch of circuitry in there to handle DisplayPort. The practical upshot is that an Eyefinity card can output at least 3 displays: 2x DVI/HDMI/VGA/whatever, and 1x DisplayPort.
He wasn't saying that cards from the past 5+ years had Eyefinity.

shaitan
Mar 8, 2004
g.d.m.f.s.o.b.

With a coupon I can get the Dell ST2320L for $135. This seems like a fairly good deal, I mostly just do email, write documentation and a little bit of programming on the side so I don't really need anything fancy and I'll probably be picking up 2 for the extra space.

Anything I should be wary of? I had no idea monitors were getting that low in price, especially with an LED backlight.

shaitan fucked around with this message at Dec 11, 2010 around 22:40

fleshweasel
Aug 23, 2004

Weasels Ripped My Flesh


the only review i could find indicates it's kind of a POS
http://www.pcmonitors.org/monitor-reviews/dell-st2320l
honestly, what's the point of having 3 displays that look crappy over 1 that looks great?

movax
Aug 30, 2008



shaitan posted:

With a coupon I can get the Dell ST2320L for $135. This seems like a fairly good deal, I mostly just do email, write documentation and a little bit of programming on the side so I don't really need anything fancy and I'll probably be picking up 2 for the extra space.

Anything I should be wary of? I had no idea monitors were getting that low in price, especially with an LED backlight.

It's a TN panel, that's about it. If you read my description in the OP, viewing angles will suck. But it'll do just fine for email, text editing and programming. I have no idea how "bad" the viewing angles on these are, but it shouldn't be bad enough to preclude a dual-monitor setup.

Updated top posts with informations from thread (I'll probably do this once or twice a week or so). Question: Dell Uxxx = UltraSharp, IPS, Dell STxxx = Budget TN, Dell Pxxx = ? Are these blanket assignments accurate?

Also I feel like our recommendations are being a tad elitist; info on the various Acer, Asus, Samsung, etc displays would be cool. I think Samsung makes a lot of S-PVA-based monitors, which tend to get glossed over. A PVA/MVA would work great for shaitan too.

shaitan
Mar 8, 2004
g.d.m.f.s.o.b.

Thanks!

Yeah, I figure I don't need an IPS panel for my needs, I don't watch TV or play games on my computer and I wanted to spend less than $300 to get back my dual screens. This will look loads better than my 1024x768 CRT I've been using the last few years. I'm sold, ordered 2, should be rocking the dualies in about a week.

I don't see the point of having one great display if you aren't doing anything that utilizes it.

Grog
Mar 31, 2007

Some things man was not meant to tamper with.


There isn't really any point to buying a higher quality screen when you don't need it. The minimum brightness is probably the only thing I'd worry about if all you're doing is text work, just to turn it down to a comfortable level so it doesn't burn your retinas.

Commissar Of Doom
Apr 21, 2009


I've just got a question, I got an Asus vw246 as a secondary monitor/TV for my xbox 360 and it's great, aside from one problem. The top of the screen is always a few shades darker than the bottom when dealing with certain colors. It's a bit of an annoyance, and I suppose it's to be expected on an LCD but I've never seen anything like it before. Can this be corrected by changing settings on the monitor or my video card control panel? I've been trying that as well as playing with the viewing angle and getting no satisfactory results. I'm wondering if I should RMA it and hope for the best.

Commissar Of Doom fucked around with this message at Dec 12, 2010 around 07:55

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Commissar Of Doom posted:

The top of the screen is always a few shades darker than the bottom when dealing with certain colors.
It may be your viewing angle, it may be a bad monitor, or it may be simple limitations of it being a cheap TN panel. The reviews I found on a cursory glance were generally unimpressed with the visual quality (not that it was bad, per se, just not particularly good), noting banding, sharpness, and greyscale issues. You can certainly try RMAing and hoping for a better one, but there's not going to be a software setting that fixes that sort of thing, unless you're still running it with brightness/sharpness maxed out, in which case set them to 50% and see if that helps.

GargleBlaster
Mar 17, 2008

Stupid Narutard

To follow up on the 2211 vs 2311 dilemma (I was concerned about the dot pitch) I went with the 23 and made the right choice. It looks perfectly sharp and I underestimated the game immersion factor of having your face a couple of feet from a 23" screen. Compared to the 19" I had before it's astounding! (I didn't think it'd make THAT much of a difference for gaming. Mainly bought it for the better colours)

Think I would've been disappointed with the 22 (21.5").

GargleBlaster fucked around with this message at Dec 13, 2010 around 22:44

Manny
Jun 14, 2001

Like fruitcake!

Dammit, I've had a U2410 on order with for the last 2 weeks awaiting stock, and the counters jumped back up to 2 weeks again.

In the UK, it seems buying direct from Dell is always almost more expensive than buying from a 3rd party retailer. I had the U2410 ordered from dabs for 448, yet Dell want 583. And now I can't find any other retailers that have it in stock - could this be a sign that a replacement in the 24" bracket is coming?

There's also the fact that Dell business are doing the U2711 with a big discount for 530 + vat, so 622 in total. So tempting...

Whatever I buy, I eventually want to get another of so I have a pair of matching displays, is 2x 27" actually too much monitor, if there is such a thing? For reference I need them for graphic design/illustrator work and currently have a NEC 26" 1920x1200 and crappy Dell 22" 1650x1050.

Edit: got it down to 577 delivered with 10% discount code...

Manny fucked around with this message at Dec 14, 2010 around 00:00

GargleBlaster
Mar 17, 2008

Stupid Narutard

Got mine (2311) from Scan for 1 more than Dell!

EDIT: IGNORE BELOW - Anyone having vertical pinstripes on a Mac read my post further down.

Annoyingly, a significant reason I bought it was for colour accuracy and most of the time I care about that under OSX. Only these Dell monitors have some serious problems under OSX (which I'm certainly experiencing). Pinstripes.. just what I always wanted...

I can reduce the pinstripes a little (or at least move them from one shade to another) by screwing around with the gamma settings, but on the whole I'd currently recommend against this monitor for Macs - including Hackintoshes.

GargleBlaster fucked around with this message at Dec 14, 2010 around 17:49

AlmightyPants
Mar 14, 2001

King of Scheduling

After seeing a 120hz monitor in action I'm thinking about ditching my old CRT. Any recommendations on the 120hz LCD front?

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


LakesGuzzler posted:

Got mine (2311) from Scan for 1 more than Dell!

Annoyingly, a significant reason I bought it was for colour accuracy and most of the time I care about that under OSX. Only these Dell monitors have some serious problems under OSX (which I'm certainly experiencing). Pinstripes.. just what I always wanted...

I can reduce the pinstripes a little (or at least move them from one shade to another) by screwing around with the gamma settings, but on the whole I'd currently recommend against this monitor for Macs - including Hackintoshes.

What is wrong with you? I've been reading this and the previous monitor thread for probably a year. Literally the only thing that has been established beyond a shadow of a doubt is that

The 2311 is great for the price for regular computing.
The 2410 is what you get if you care about color accuracy.

Are you so loving stupid that you saw this but didn't comprehend it? Or did you just not read the thread?

I know I sound like a dick but these two facts have been established umpteen times in this thread and your post is even more annoying to me than the 20th person posting "what's the best value in the 22-24" range?"

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Steakandchips
Apr 30, 2009



What has that to do with his pinstriping issue?

ToastyX
Mar 15, 2004
N
yaaarrr!


LakesGuzzler posted:

Annoyingly, a significant reason I bought it was for colour accuracy and most of the time I care about that under OSX. Only these Dell monitors have some serious problems under OSX (which I'm certainly experiencing). Pinstripes.. just what I always wanted...

I can reduce the pinstripes a little (or at least move them from one shade to another) by screwing around with the gamma settings, but on the whole I'd currently recommend against this monitor for Macs - including Hackintoshes.
I've seen some people complain about that. Mac OS X seems to do some kind of dithering since I can calibrate without getting banding. My guess is the Dell also does some kind of dithering, which is clashing with the dithering being done in Mac OS X. I haven't tested the Dell to know for sure, but I've seen something similar happen with the Samsung F2380.

If you're using a Mac, I recommend the NEC EA231WMi instead. It costs a little more, but it also has an IPS panel and is similar to the Dell, except without the pinstriping problem.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Steakandchips posted:

What has that to do with his pinstriping issue?

LakesGuzzler posted:

Got mine (2311) from Scan for 1 more than Dell!

Annoyingly, a significant reason I bought it was for colour accuracy and most of the time I care about that under OSX.

Nothing to do with pinstriping, but I think the quote is pretty clear.

GargleBlaster
Mar 17, 2008

Stupid Narutard

EDIT: This is now resolved, see the link at the bottom.

I can read perfectly fine, both here and the multitude of external reviews.

There's nothing wrong with the colour accuracy of the 2311. Yes the 2410 is even more perfect and fantastic and all the rest of it... colour accuracy on monitors is a relative thing. I chose the 2311 over various TN panels because of colour accuracy, I also chose it over the 2410 because of budget. It's called a "reasonable compromise" (my guess from your penchant for raging is that "reasonable" and "compromise" are not concepts you're too familiar with)
If you think that colour accuracy is not a valid reason to choose it over some random TN panel, GTFO.
I also said "a significant" reason not "the main" reason.

What I am seeing is a compatibility problem in OS X, that only affects OS X, the monitor is absolutely fantastic under Windows.

Perhaps it's you who needs to read properly.

(Spare us the inevitable YOSPOS too please)

Edit: FYI this sounds interesting/promising http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/...x/message/10369
If I eventually get it working properly I will retract my non-recommendation for Macs, not that it should be taken as gospel anyway.

GargleBlaster fucked around with this message at Dec 14, 2010 around 17:50

ToastyX
Mar 15, 2004
N
yaaarrr!


Magic Underwear posted:

Nothing to do with pinstriping, but I think the quote is pretty clear.
That doesn't justify your ridiculous response. There's nothing stupid about using a cheaper IPS monitor for color accuracy, especially if you need something close to sRGB.

In fact, I don't know where you got the idea that the U2410 is better for color accuracy. If you need something close to sRGB, it's actually worse because the excessively wide gamut oversaturates everything except in a small number of color-managed programs, and the sRGB mode is actually worse than a cheaper IPS monitor and is also less functional since the color adjustments are disabled. It's supposed to be factory calibrated, but people have gotten monitors that don't match because it doesn't have uniformity compensation, so brightness and color variations across the panel affect the factory calibration, which defeats the purpose of factory calibration in the first place.

If you really care about color accuracy and need to work with wider gamuts, then you'd want a higher-end monitor like the NEC PA241W, which costs more. Otherwise, you'd be better off with something like the HP ZR24W if you want 1920x1200.

LakesGuzzler posted:

Edit: FYI this sounds interesting/promising http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/...x/message/10369
If I eventually get it working properly I will retract my non-recommendation for Macs, not that it should be taken as gospel anyway.
That's very interesting, but for some reason they've singled out NVIDIA when I know for sure there's dithering with ATI Macs as well.

I would still recommend the NEC EA231WMi over the Dell U2311H for Mac users simply because I've verified myself that the NEC EA231WMi works on both NVIDIA and ATI Macs without any trouble.

ToastyX fucked around with this message at Dec 14, 2010 around 11:34

GargleBlaster
Mar 17, 2008

Stupid Narutard

Edit: You've scrolled too far if looking for the Mac pinstripe link

Sense... thank you. That too. Edit in response to edit: I have an ATI card which I will try tonight amongst other things. It's not beyond the realms of possibility to return the Dell and get the NEC either, but I really do like the Dell one for everything else so it's a tough choice.

TBH it's a matter of how much one cares about colour accuracy. I fall under roughly the category of "I surf the web, sip lattes, blog about poo poo no one cares about, and edit my terrible photography to share with my family. Sometimes I will slum with the proletariat and play video games" (to quote the OP).

Because I screw around with photography a bit - as a hobby, nothing more - I do care about the colours to a degree. I.e. having an increased chance of looking the same on other people's screens (or more to the point on my own future screens). This makes it a factor in the choice of an affordable and respected IPS unit, along with other factors like generally finding many TN panels visibly bad at the larger sizes - probably due to a combination of size, viewing angle, proximity to display and the laws of physics/geometry.

However it's not for crucial professional graphics work where your colours need to be absolutely 99.999999% correct or better which is why I didn't choose to spend twice as much (or many times more) on a professional grade monitor.

In essence I care about it enough to choose the model that I did. This kind of thing is a personal choice based on weighing up several factors (colours being just one of them) and not really worthy of much of a public debate let alone a scathing attack.

Anyway I have a few things to try tonight. It's mostly looking like Snow Leopard being lovely (a concept regarding Snow Leopard that I'm getting quite accustomed to. Leopard was the high point of OSX, IMHO. But that's just a personal opinion, no need for anyone to go off on one) If this is the case it's not Dell's fault it's not the ideal option, it's just... not the ideal option.

GargleBlaster fucked around with this message at Dec 14, 2010 around 17:51

El Kabong
Apr 14, 2004
-$10

I just got two displays and was wondering if there is a way to prevent one full-screen application from minimizing when I click on something on the other monitor? What I want to do is keep a game full-screen, and be able to browse on the other monitor. The tricky part is that you mouse to the edge of the screen to scroll around in the game.

Manny
Jun 14, 2001

Like fruitcake!

Is it any game in particular that does this? I've had some problems in the past with certain games being unable to 'capture' the mouse cursor so you can move off onto the other screen, but I think it's dependant on the game. Gaming and dual monitors is rarely an elegant affair Also what OS?

Also, anyone had problems with the AG coating on Dells? I've heard that it is particularly aggressive/noticable on the u2711, and some people go as far as major warranty-voiding surgery to remove it and convert their screen to glossy.

GargleBlaster
Mar 17, 2008

Stupid Narutard

Manny posted:

Also, anyone had problems with the AG coating on Dells? I've heard that it is particularly aggressive/noticable on the u2711, and some people go as far as major warranty-voiding surgery to remove it and convert their screen to glossy.

Assuming it's the same as on the 2311 yes it is quite aggressive. To me it's not a problem unless I'm sitting with my nose to the screen actively looking for "problems" (a dangerous pastime as you end up spotting things you wouldn't have noticed without careful scrutiny, but which you can't then un-see) but YMMV.

It's probably worth trying to find one on display somewhere if you think it could bother you.

Personally I thought "okay, fairly aggressive coating, grainy if I get really close but there must be a good reason for it" and my subconscious kind of accepted that answer and stopped noticing. Don't think I'd turn it glossy - now that *is* distracting if your light sources aren't perfectly positioned - it drove me nuts on my now-sold iMac. It's entirely a personal preference though.

(Edit: I suck at getting posts clear first time)

GargleBlaster fucked around with this message at Dec 14, 2010 around 14:26

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

El Kabong posted:

I just got two displays and was wondering if there is a way to prevent one full-screen application from minimizing when I click on something on the other monitor? What I want to do is keep a game full-screen, and be able to browse on the other monitor. The tricky part is that you mouse to the edge of the screen to scroll around in the game.
There isn't anything system-wide you can do to fix this; it's something that the game devs have to bother enabling. It sounds like you want what's called "Full-screen windowed" mode, which (as its name implies) makes the game run in full screen, but act like it's windowed so you can mess around with other programs and whatnot. For games that don't support this, ShiftWindow can fake it pretty well, but you may run into issues with how the game handles things when you mouse off to somewhere else. Worth a look, anyhow.

Manny posted:

Also, anyone had problems with the AG coating on Dells? I've heard that it is particularly aggressive/noticable on the u2711, and some people go as far as major warranty-voiding surgery to remove it and convert their screen to glossy.
It ends up being strongly personal preference. People coming from glossy displays are more likely to be driven batty by it, since they'll immediately see the difference. On the other hand, people coming from non-glossy displays probably won't notice anything unless they load up a blank white page and look for it. As LakesGuzzler notes, it might be worth it to see if you can see one in person if you think you might be sensitive to this issue.

Manny
Jun 14, 2001

Like fruitcake!

I'm used to matte displays anyway and it's hard to find a place that stocks these models so I could have a look at one.

My dilemma is they're on reduced price sale from Dell Business at the moment, but buying from them as a business voids the UK consumer distance seller regulations, and so my right to send it back within 7 days for any reason.

movax
Aug 30, 2008



AlmightyPants posted:

After seeing a 120hz monitor in action I'm thinking about ditching my old CRT. Any recommendations on the 120hz LCD front?

I haven't personally used one, but Anandtech seems to like (and has a very detailed review) of this Asus model.

Fishmasher
Apr 22, 2002


Manny posted:

Also, anyone had problems with the AG coating on Dells? I've heard that it is particularly aggressive/noticable on the u2711, and some people go as far as major warranty-voiding surgery to remove it and convert their screen to glossy.
I traded my U2211H because of the anti-glare coating. Photographs and video looked great. I really wanted to like it, but any text on a white background was almost intolerable to me because of the AG coating. I think the small dot pitch on the 21.5" makes the effect worse.

It's not that I'm just being overly picky, white documents and forums were actually very difficult for me to read. I've heard that wearing glasses might make the effect worse, maybe that's partially why it bothers some people so much more than others.

Fishmasher fucked around with this message at Dec 14, 2010 around 16:55

GargleBlaster
Mar 17, 2008

Stupid Narutard

Now that you mention it I was experiencing a feeling of eye strain or something similar last night but put it down to tiredness and possibly the brightness needing to be turned down (though it comes turned down to 75% from the factory). Will need a bit more time with it before coming back with a more useful conclusion.

Manny
Jun 14, 2001

Like fruitcake!

Fishmasher posted:

I traded my U2211H because of the anti-glare coating. Photographs and video looked great. I really wanted to like it, but any text on a white background was almost intolerable to me because of the AG coating. I think the small dot pitch on the 21.5" makes the effect worse.

It's not that I'm just being overly picky, white documents and forums were actually very difficult for me to read. I've heard that wearing glasses might make the effect worse, maybe that's partially why it bothers some people so much more than others.

Sounds like I'm going to have to get my hands on one to try out. I wear glasses, and do a lot of fine detail text work on white documents. Thanks for the input.

devmd01
Mar 7, 2006

This hat isn't the only
thing that's big

I've taken to using f.lux to turn the color temperature down to 3400K all the time. Obviously this isn't an option for people doing color-sensitive work, but it has gone a long way towards reducing my eyestrain from staring at dual 20" all day.

GargleBlaster
Mar 17, 2008

Stupid Narutard

LakesGuzzler posted:

Edit: FYI this sounds interesting/promising http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/...x/message/10369
If I eventually get it working properly I will retract my non-recommendation for Macs, not that it should be taken as gospel anyway.

That did it !! I am much much happier now, and will commence with some tidying up of previous comments.

Could be worth adding to the "I have a Mac" section in the OP... sounds like a relatively widespread issue with various monitors and I'd certainly have been happy to find that link early on. Unless it's mostly misconfigured Macs and Hackintoshes.. hard to say. But I've certainly come across people complaining about it on Mac Minis.

Fishmasher
Apr 22, 2002


I'm looking for information about modern Viewsonic anti-glare coatings, and if they're light or heavy. Basically I'm trying to avoid any noticeable grain/rainbow sparkles over a white background. VG2436wm-LED for example. Anyone know?

kri kri
Jul 18, 2007



Quick question about CALIBRATIN

Got my u2311h today, and I run Flux. Should I be changing any of my settings based on this? I am using flux default settings. My LCD is

RGB
Brightness 30
Contrast 75
Sharpness 50

Thanks

fleshweasel
Aug 23, 2004

Weasels Ripped My Flesh


Should I forget about a u2311h for my mid 2010 macbook? The screenshots in the link don't work so I don't know if I entirely understand what the issue is.

GargleBlaster
Mar 17, 2008

Stupid Narutard

fleshweasel posted:

Should I forget about a u2311h for my mid 2010 macbook? The screenshots in the link don't work so I don't know if I entirely understand what the issue is.

If the Macbook is powered by an NVidia chip (I think so?) then there's no reason not to. You may see the pinstripe / banding effect but it's an easy fix now that we know how.

It's hard to describe the issue and the scale of impact that it has... basically solid areas of particular shades - mostly visible with grey, which features a lot in the OS X UI and forums like this one - end up as alternating stripes of light, dark, light, dark. It seems whatever your gamma setting there is a "killer shade" (the canvas colour in Photoshop for mine) where it's really obvious but the rest may depend on eyesight which would explain why there aren't thousands of posts about it. Mine's pretty much 20/20.

The link I posted does go into excessive depth... in a nutshell download NVinject from here: http://support.crsltd.com/FileManag...b7e57de5b88a481
and type into Terminal (from the download location)
code:
sudo cp -R NVinject.kext /System/Library/Extensions/
and reboot.

If it's ATI you may be out of luck (unless you're not as fussy) and better off getting the alternative that ToastyX posted.

GargleBlaster fucked around with this message at Dec 15, 2010 around 13:21

Tab8715
May 20, 2006


Is it possible to het Hazro monitor in the United States?

GargleBlaster
Mar 17, 2008

Stupid Narutard

LakesGuzzler posted:

Now that you mention it I was experiencing a feeling of eye strain or something similar last night but put it down to tiredness and possibly the brightness needing to be turned down (though it comes turned down to 75% from the factory). Will need a bit more time with it before coming back with a more useful conclusion.

I'll stop hogging the thread so much now but basically after a couple of days I've not felt distracted by the AG coating. I am *now* because the subject came back to mind, I ended up looking for it and now I can't un-see it for a while, but in general use I don't notice it at all if my face is a a reasonable distance (2-3ft) from the display.

If I'm honest in the grey colours (say on this forum, when you hit reply) and to a lesser extent on white it's sort of visible to a 3D effect as if that part of the image is a centimetre or two in front of the actual display. It's only if I'm actively looking for it though, and it's alleviated by turning the brightness down from "my eyes are bleeding" to "ahh that's better". (45% is working for me today. 75 is way too bright for me.)

It's a little more aggressive but in general doesn't seem too dissimilar to any other matte display and I BY FAR prefer it from glossy. Again, YMMV, try to see one in person before buying etc.

GargleBlaster fucked around with this message at Dec 15, 2010 around 19:32

Quanta
Jul 28, 2002


Tab8715 posted:

Is it possible to het Hazro monitor in the United States?

You can order it from their website, but expect to over $100 in shipping costs.

Tab8715
May 20, 2006


Does anyone have any information on HP's dead pixel policy? I'm thinking about that HP zr24w but can't find a drat thing relating to pixels.

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NickPancakes
Oct 27, 2004

Damnit, somebody get me a tissue.

Why won't the U2311H go back down to $240 .

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