AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

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Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

For a second there I thought the helicopter picture was from Chernobyl's boneyard but that's apparently located here: http://englishrussia.com/2009/03/16/chernobyl-scrap-metal/

# ¿ Nov 24, 2011 20:04

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 23:39

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Phanatic posted:

When would those times be?

One of the first responders to evacuate US citizens during the Lebanon/Israeli war a couple years back was a Marine fleet.

Incidentally I only remember this since its the last half of the Lebanon No Reservations episode with Bourdain.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2011 12:57

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

It still boggles my mind how expensive Sled Driver still is, and how there hasn't been a reprint of it that didn't cost 2 grand.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2012 15:41

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

iyaayas01 posted:

See also, the entire F-35 program. Just remember, for every one issue with the Raptor, there are at least another 2 or 3 bigger, more severe, and more costly issues with the F-35.

Aren't most of the F-35 problems mainly in the carrier/B variants?

# ¿ Jan 28, 2012 04:35

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Cyrano4747 posted:

If you had asked me to draw "an awesome fighter jet" when I was 8 that's pretty much exactly what you would have gotten.

I do like how wonderfully goofy the F-15 thrust vectoring testbed looks as well.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2012 15:46

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

On the subject of post-apocalyptic dad fiction, Warday by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka is pretty decent. It's grim as all hell though since it's mainly a more scientific/plausibility themed fiction book, with casualty charts and radiation statistics. It also includes a seceded Texas/Mexico being the sole source of currency amid ethnic clensing of whites and a police state California.
There was supposed to be a sequel but the co-authors drifted apart after the release of Nature's End, where a cult leader proposes the suicide of a third of the world's population after near total ecological collapse in 2025.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2012 08:47

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Smiling Jack posted:

Ralph Peters (yes, that Ralph Peters) wrote a hilarious in hindsight book about the F-35 procurement process back in 1999.

Didn't the procurement process for the F-22 start in 1993?
Edit: checked, and hah, 1991.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2012 03:57

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Helter Skelter posted:

Someone mentioned a couple pages back that they'd buy a T-38 if they won the lottery. Personally, I'd be tempted by the adorably stubby M-346:

That reminds me of Jim Bede's abortive attempt at creating a supersonic kit plane, the BD-10. The engines never ended up being up to snuff and three of the planes disintegrated in mid-air. Looked like a small F-15 though, which was cool.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2012 19:01

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Pykrete could be useful for setting up shelters that can be dotted around Antarctica but that's about it.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2012 05:18

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Delivery McGee posted:

The last one was built in October '62. What happened to the 14 built in FY63 and however many of the 68 1962 models that were built in late spring?

The last model number ends in 61-0040; a bunch from 61-0000 onwards are either crashed or in AMARC. Three are maintenance trainers apparently, one of the maintenance trainers was the replacement for the NB-52B that used to carry the X-15s.

edit: Here's what some crazy USAF serial number enthusiast has.

code:

61-0001/0013		Boeing B-52H-165-BW Stratofortress
				c/n 464428/464440
				0007 to AMARC Nov 13, 2008.  Seen at AMARC Mar 2009
				0008 with 93rd BS, 307th BW in 2011
				0009 to AMARC Sep 25, 2008.  Seen at AMARC Mar 2009
61-0014/0026		Boeing B-52H-170-BW Stratofortress
				c/n 464441/464453
				0017 named "Renegade" with 92nd BW in Apr 1989.
				0022 entered Depot Maintenance at Tinker AFB, OK in Nov 2004.  Crack was found in wing
					attachment and it sat waiting for money for repairs.  Temporarily repaired in early 2009
					and flown to Sheppard AFB, TX for use as maintenance trainer.
				0023 loaned to Boeing to test turbulence effects.  On test flight on Jan 10, 1964
					the entire vertical fin and rudder were ripped off.  Aircraft was able
					to land safely at Blytheville AFB.  Repaired and returned to service.
					To AMARC Jul 24, 2008, first B-52H to go to storage.
				0024 to AMARC Jan 6, 2009.  Seem at AMARC Mar 2009.  Named "I'll Be Seeing You" with 410th BW in May 1992.
				0025 delivered to NASA Dryden Flight Research Center Jul 30, 2001
					as replacement for NB-52B mothership.  Left Edwards AFB May 9, 2008
					on one-time ferry flight to Sheppard AFB, TX, where it will become
					a maintenance trainer, never to fly again.
				0026 crashed Jun 24, 1994 at Fairchild AFB during rehersal for air display.  
					Lost control and hit ground.
61-0027/0040		Boeing B-52H-175-BW Stratofortress
				c/n 464454/464467
				0027 to AMARC as BC0492 Jan 1, 2009.
				0030 crashed Nov 2, 1967 at Griffiss AFB.  Control lost during instrument approach
					when power loss on no. 5 and 6 engines.  This plane was seen
					parked at DMAFB Mar 2009, so the plane must have been repaired.
				0032 to GB-52H maintenance trainer at Minot AFB, ND.
				0033 destroyed Nov 14, 1975 in ground fire at
					Minot AFB.
				0037 crashed Jan 21, 1969 at Minot AFB.
					Incorrect preflight fuel load distribution caused
					aircraft to stall on takeoff.  Aircraft 
					climbed to about 200-300 feet and made
					several pitch gyrations and crashed.
					Some of the crew tried to eject and were
					killed.
				0038 named "Dogs of War" with 7th BW in Apr 1989

Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Apr 6, 2012

# ¿ Apr 6, 2012 12:33

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

The most hilarious thing about the defense budget is the military actually wants to draw down troop levels and their budget but Congress won't let them. No more taxes ever but no base closes ever either.

Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Apr 13, 2012

# ¿ Apr 13, 2012 05:58

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Scratch Monkey posted:

Sadly this whole debacle will ultimately just serve to bring the era of manned combat aircraft to an end that much faster, and that makes me sad.

Until such time as unmanned aircraft can't be hacked and diverted to Iran, I think pilots are safe.

# ¿ May 12, 2012 12:53

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Edit: Actually, I'm just going to copy a post I made in the Military History thread in A/T (Which itself was just a copy of two posts made by others in the old GBS History thread)

Here's what Oberleutenant had to say about the German magnetic detonators:

quote:

As expected, the Norwegian seas were filled with Allied ships. Almost immediately, the U-boats began attacking. Every day and every hour, U-boats were attacking warships or were being attacked themselves. Day in, day out, night after night, the U-boats fired their torpedoes one after another, relentlessly against their targets. Not one of them exploded. Their efforts remained completely fruitless. Worse yet, when the data was analyzed back at BdU, it was found that four attacks were launched on the battleship HMS Warsprite, fourteen on cruisers, ten on destroyers, and a further ten on transports � yet only one transport was sunk. Discounting marginal attacks, Donitz concluded that had the torpedoes not failed, the U-boats would have �probable sinkings� of one battleship, seven cruisers, seven destroyers, and five transports. In summary, about twenty enemy warships had escaped certain destruction because of torpedo failures.

By the end of the Norwegian campaign, the men of the U-boat Force had lost all faith in their torpedo and had not much heart to resume the fight. On April 19, Prien refused to attack when he spotted a convoy of ten transports and several destroyers. He still had four torpedoes left, but had so little faith in them that he sailed away silently. Upon his return, in explaining his refusal to attack, he told Donitz that he �could hardly be expected to fight with a dummy rifle�.

Owing to torpedo failures, on April 26, Grand Admiral Raeder released the U-boat Force from Norwegian operations. Meanwhile, design flaws were being discovered back at the Torpedo Directorate. Often times, when a problem was discovered and corrected, other new problems were uncovered as a result of the fix. Problems fell into three main categories: contact detonator, magnetic detonator and depth keeping ability.

The contact detonator used during the First World War was simple and reliable. After the war, the detonator had been completely redesigned to transfer the impact of the blow backwards through a series of complicated levers. In theory, it was supposed to provide a wide impact angle of 69 degrees to perpendicular. However, in practice, this was closer to 40 degrees. The new design had been tested only twice and that too with mixed results. As a result, the contact detonator was replaced with a much simpler design, mainly influenced by British technology captured from the submarine HMS Seal.

The magnetic detonator however proved to be immune to simple fixes. It was supposed to detonate when it passed underneath a ship�s keel, as it was triggered by a sudden change in magnetic fields. This did not work as intended as the British had found a way to reduce a ship�s magnetic field by degaussing. Additionally, the earth�s magnetic fields also varied at different geographical locations and were influenced by iron ore deposits beneath the sea bed. Only when the completely redesigned Pi2 detonator had been introduced in December 1942, the problems of magnetic detonator continued to plague the U-boat Force.

But even if the detonators had been working flawlessly, problems with depth keeping meant that torpedoes were running two to three meters too deep. The depth keeping device worked by using an atmospheric chamber which controlled running depth. The Torpedo Directorate conducted new tests and could not discover any flaws. This occurred because the test torpedoes were launched from normal atmospheric conditions. But since atmospheric pressure inside a U-boat varied greatly, especially after prolonged submerged activity, air would leak into the torpedo chamber, effectively recalibrating the depth sensor.

Years would pass before a fairly reliable torpedo design could be developed. By then, advances in Allied technology had made it far more difficult to deliver torpedoes to their target.

As a result of the torpedo scandal, several top officials of the Torpedo Directorate were court martialed for negligence in duties. Donitz would write in his memoirs, �For the lessons one fails to learn during peacetime, one pays a high price in war�.

�I do not believe that ever in the history of war, men have been sent against the enemy with such a useless weapon� - Karl Donitz

Basically, the only nation that started the war with a world-class fully functioning torpedo were the Japanese. But that was hampered by how incredibly deadly and volatile they were. A single 5 inch shell from the Samuel B. Roberts, a destroyer escort, hit the torpedoes on the heavy cruiser Chokai, causing enough damage that it had to be scuttled the following day.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2012 05:55

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

rossmum posted:

I dunno about during the Cold War, but there were (some) recorded instances of that during WWII.

The latter part of Stalingrad (and Berlin) by Anthony Beevor has a large amount of anecdotes about conscripts drinking things that they weren't supposed to in order to get drunk. Mainly tank engine cleaners or industrial alcohol meant for factories.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2012 19:52

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Just Joe posted:

ICBM basing schemes[/url] first conceptualized in the 1980s, including variants of Racetrack, Shell Game and Subway.
Personally, I hope they add Dense Pack into the mix. And Midgetman. Although today I guess they'd have to rename it Little Nongendered Missile.

The C-5 ICBM basing test was pretty ingenious come to think of it. Hideously impractical because of the C-5's safety record but ingenious.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2013 20:55

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Oxford Comma posted:

What were these schemes?

Here's the video for the C-5 test. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96A0wb1Ov9k _{_{I probably got it from this thread a year ago come to think of it.}}

# ¿ Feb 8, 2013 11:33

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Growing up reading Alas Babylon it's funny looking at that map for Florida. We'd be utterly hosed with pretty much every population center being killed on the 600 war-head map.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2013 15:08

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

jaegerx posted:

See I'm having a hard time with UCAVS and unmanned Aircraft. The first strike in a nextgen war will obviously be to gain the high ground, space. With the elimination of satellites how are we going to control our unmanned vehicles or are they planning them being completely autonomous skynet AI?

The thing about anti satellite missiles is absolutely nobody wants to start using them because the ensuing debris field would gently caress up launches and orbits for years to come. There's a lot of military communications and spy satellites up there to be taken out.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2013 11:24

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

priznat posted:

I'm very surprised there isn't some story about a complete idiot recruit doing that. Or do they screen out the utter morons for working in the silos? (Please say yes)

Pvt Pyle: DONT OPEN WHUT DOOR SARGE? HEY WHATS THIS HATCH THINGIE?
*opens hatch, tons of sand pour in*
Sarge: PYYYYYLE!
Pvt Pyle: WELL GOLLEEE!

Sounds like a saboteurs wet dream to be honest.

# ¿ Nov 21, 2013 11:43

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

The Kindle daily deal for today is Red Eagles: Americas Secret MiGs, about the US aggressor training program using Soviet airframe examples (which were mostly from defectors if I recall correctly.)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004X7533K/

# ¿ Jan 13, 2014 22:36

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Red Eagles is pretty good for finding out a bunch of stuff. Like how most of the pilots had such a high appreciation for the MiG-21 that had the North Vietnamese had more of them/better pilots/training the US would have probably lost the air war if they kept flying the F-4 with the ROE as is.

Also that the MiG-23 was a giant shitheap but was really good at both going fast and killing pilots (including a 3 star general).

# ¿ Jan 25, 2014 06:39

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

ManifunkDestiny posted:

Mig 21s vs. F-4s in Vietnam I would think.

This one most likely, though there was still a basic lack of training on the Vietnamese side.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2014 22:27

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

The funny thing about the horrid F-35 program versus programs of the past is if you look at the rather absurd requirements for it (why yes, run this until the late 2020s at the earliest, fill the roles of 4 other aircraft for 3 US services, and 2 foreign nations) it sort of makes sense. Compared to the old-school procurement post- WWII with multiple thousand unit purchases being turned over every 3 (early 50s) to 12(70s) years) the program (adjusted for inflation, and taken with a giant, enormous, Grover-sized grain of salt) might actually be a decent one in terms of cost.

Then again, if what you're comparing it to is various Russian planes (vaporware which never turns out to actually be produced in viable numbers since 1992), the Eurofighter(which has had a development cycle even more hosed than the F-35, with the entire first block series being scrapped ), the Gripen (which isn't even a semi-next-gen fighter), or the F-22 (which, amazingly, after years of gently caress-ups and problems might actually be adhering to the design documents in the near future), anything can seem like a decent buy.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2014 12:55

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

TheFluff posted:

The mother of all oil leaks?

quote:

Ed King, P-47 Pilot
347th Ftr. Sqd, 350th Ftr. Grp.
MTO, ETO WWll, 1944-45

January 12, 1945, Strafing Attack
Bresica, Italy Railroad Marshalling Yard

On January 12th, the weather condition over the Poe Valley was reported as unsuitable for dive-bombing. The Valley was covered with layers of solid to broken clouds, plus a broken to scattered low scud deck. A mist of rain also filled the air.

Since flying conditions on the south side of the Apennine Mountains were good, I was assigned to lead a flight of four on a combination weather and armed reconnaissance mission into the far reaches of northern Italy.

Upon arriving over the Bresica Area, we were able to spiral down and around the clouds to a relative low altitude. An active railroad marshalling yard, crowded with rolling stock, was spotted through a break in the scud below. Also, sighted alongside, was a protecting anti-aircraft battery.

In the belief I could take the gun pit out-of-play myself, the others were radioed to orbit out-of-range until called. There was just not room for all of us to maneuver in such close quarters.

As I was closing in on a firing pass, the gun pit opened fire, scoring a direct hit in my aircraft�s engine. At once, a heavy oil spray flowed from under the cowling, completely covering my glass canopy. My first reaction was to climb for altitude into the clouds because in my mind, a bailout was close at hand.

The other flight members were notified of my plight and advised to return to home base. Weather conditions would have made finding me very difficult if not impossible.

While in a climbing mode, the canopy was opened in preparation for abandoning ship. As the canopy opened, a heavy spray of hot oil hit me full in the face. For some reason, I had always carried a clean rag in the cockpit, to be used for whatever the need. In this instance, the need was to wipe the oil out of my eyes. I also discovered that by leaning well forward the oil spray missed my face.

Upon reaching a comfortable altitude, the ship was leveled between a layer of clouds. The Area Radar Controller was contacted and the situation explained. He was also told of my decision to remain with the aircraft for as long as the engine kept running. At this point, my location was approximately 140 miles from my home base at Pisa, of which 120 of those miles were over enemy territory.

In a calming voice, the Controller gave me a heading towards the nearest coastline. In the event open sea could be reached, an air/sea rescue may be possible, even though I would still be behind enemy lines.

All clouds were cleared as I approached the coastline near La Spezia. After passing over the coast, a turn was made towards the south. As I proceeded down the coast, the enemy anti-aircraft coastal batteries apparently decided to make my situation a little more interesting because they opened fire. By this time, I was in no condition to take evasive action even though flak was bursting all around me. It was of utmost importance that my altitude be maintained. Fortunately, there were no hits scored by their gunners.

At around the 10 to 15 mile range from home base, more and more throttle had to be added, in order to hold my altitude. Engine oil starvation was evidently beginning to set in.

In the meantime, an aircraft had sent to guide me the rest of the way home. As he joined me from the left, he was waved-off. It was apparent my engine would not hold out for a long straight-in- approach.

A high down-wind leg was entered. By now, the throttle was in an almost full forward position and the engine instruments were about to blow their tops.

Turning onto a close base leg, gear and flaps were dropped. Upon reaching the �now or never point�, the aircraft was put into a steep sideslip on the way down to runway level.
At the same time, the engine came to a grinding halt with the propeller frozen in an upright position. Touchdown was made about a quarter of the way down the runway and the aircraft coasted clear at the far end.

One of the things I remember clearly was the Tower Operator screaming for me to �level out� as I was nearing runway level. It must have appeared to him that I could not see well enough to break my glide. However, with that big four bladed prop acting as an airbrake, I had to make sure there was enough airspeed to maneuver the aircraft into a landing position.

After coming to a stop, the emergency crewmen who met me had looks of dismay on their faces. Their looks were justified because the whole of me, the cockpit and the aircraft were a black, greasy mess.

Upon leaving the cockpit, I was quickly ushered to the Flight Surgeon�s Dispensary.
My face was cleansed and my eyes flushed out. Outside of being somewhat excited and my eyes burning, I appeared none the worse for the experience.

Within the hour, a return was made to the aircraft for a picture taking and debriefing session. One of the pictures taken that day is on display in the Air and Space Museum, WWll Army Air Corps Section, Washington, DC. A picture of that �oil covered� P-47 that brought me home safely, is posted along with several other aircraft that made it back on a �Wing and a Prayer�.

King was only 19 at the time.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2014 19:04

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

What was the highest number of U-Boats deployed at sea at once, low 50s?

# ¿ Feb 20, 2014 22:29

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Cyrano4747 posted:

The Nazi-era KM commissioned around 1250 uboats of all types between dumping Versailles and the end of the war. I have no idea how those were spread out, but 50 at sea at once seems low, even factoring in how quickly they were getting sunk by the middle and end of the war.

edit: some quick googling shows May of '43 to be the worst month for them, with 40 uboat losses that month alone..

*shrug* maybe 50-ish at sea at once during the worst bit of it might be reasonable after all, once you factor in the ships resting after patrol, down for repairs, etc.

Ah, found it through your link, the highest was 159 and it averaged from 50-90 for the 42 on. The early periods when the anti-sub technology was it its worst they barely exceeded 20.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2014 22:47

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Sort of an odd question but did anybody else bother getting these things in the late 90s?

Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Feb 21, 2014

# ¿ Feb 21, 2014 01:49

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

gfanikf posted:

since concentration camps inmates aren't really committed to the Nazi war effort, any truth to that or just Internet bullshit?

Sabotage was more a part of the resistance by inmates at Dora-Mittelbau than other subcamps from what I recall (probably because it's easier to get away with sabotaging a rocket that needs high precision and has thousands of parts).

# ¿ Feb 21, 2014 04:45

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Blistex posted:

I know the Marines flick it to Guadalcanal, but what does the National Guard think of to curl their toes and ask for more independence. . . the Alamo?

Hurricane Katrina.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2014 03:31

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

What exactly can the U-2 do that a drone can't?

# ¿ Feb 25, 2014 05:10

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Propagandalf posted:

Turn academy grads into generals.

Considering iyaayas01's post I'm not entirely sure AF brass isn't grown underground like a fungus and fed with a steady diet of horseshit, contractor promises and LockMart powerpoints.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2014 02:33

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Blistex posted:

Something Soviet

Looks like a Yak-38 but that's actually a Q-5.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2014 17:31

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Nebakenezzer posted:

The F-104, a purpose built fast, high altitude interceptor was 'improved' by Lockheed to win a Luftwaffe contract. The Luftwaffe wanted a really fast interceptor that could also do close support at low levels. The F-104G was a pig, and ended up killing way more Luftwaffe airmen than the Warsaw pact did.

A bunch of those deaths were caused by the pilot riding the plane into the deck because the F-104 was in no way an all-weather plane and sticking it in poor conditions at low level over hilly/mountainous terrain was a recipe for disaster, no matter what the speed.

Command and Control is pretty good, though finding out that a full 75% of the Polaris missiles were duds thanks to temporary safety measures corroding was pretty :psyduck:

# ¿ Mar 1, 2014 04:42

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

The US stealth cruise missile project was partially scrapped (from ~1,500 missiles to ~450, remaining missiles decommissioned in 2012) because it violated START II. What's the point at having a stealth cruise missile if the B-52 (and not the B-2) is your launch vehicle?

Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Mar 2, 2014

# ¿ Mar 2, 2014 19:46

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Godholio posted:

Because normal cruise missiles can be spotted, tracked, and engaged. They generally fly slow, too.

The "normal" cruise missiles that the AGM-129 was to replace are the only ones in the US inventory now though. Heck, they're now set to be used until 2020 or later.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2014 01:26

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Snowdens Secret posted:

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't AGM-129 only nuclear while JASSM is (right now) purely conventional? Would go towards why we are getting one and retired the other.

The 129 was supposed to get an upgraded B version and a conventional C version but since the whole program was apparently such a clusterfuck that their budget got zeroed out twice they never bothered with it.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2014 05:02

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

It's really amazing that the US didn't end up nuking themselves with the number of plane crashes with barely secure weapons.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2014 01:53

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Nostalgia4Infinity posted:

Command and Control is an insanely good book.

Yeah, it doesn't really go into many of the weapons currently in the US inventory (B61) but it does go up to about ~1980ish in bomb technology. The B28/MK28, which was the bulk of the US bomb inventory, didn't get retired until 1991. It's frankly terrifying the lack of safeguards the US inventory had until the mid/late 70s because of the Air Force/Navy/Army not wanting to put any real safety measures in them.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2014 02:03

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

One of the last chapters of Command and Control has a short section about a guy auditing the SIOP packages between the various commands and finding that there was a hilarious, gigantic amount of overlap in some cases.

quote:

ON JANUARY 25, 1991, General George Lee Butler became the head of the Strategic Air Command. During his first week on the job, Butler asked the Joint Strategic Target Planning Staff to give him a copy of the SIOP. General Colin Powell and Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney had made clear that the United States needed to change its targeting policy, now that the Cold War was over. As part of that administrative process, Butler decided to look at every single target in the SIOP, and for weeks he carefully scrutinized the thousands of desired ground zeros. He found bridges and railways and roads in the middle of nowhere targeted with multiple warheads, to assure their destruction. Hundreds of nuclear warheads would hit Moscow�dozens of them aimed at a single radar installation outside the city. During his previous job working for the Joint Chiefs, Butler had dealt with targeting issues and the damage criteria for nuclear weapons. He was hardly naive. But the days and weeks spent going through the SIOP, page by page, deeply affected him.

For more than forty years, efforts to tame the SIOP, to limit it, reduce it, make it appear logical and reasonable, had failed. �With the possible exception of the Soviet nuclear war plan, this was the single most absurd and irresponsible document I had ever reviewed in my life,� General Butler later recalled. �I came to fully appreciate the truth � we escaped the Cold War without a nuclear holocaust by some combination of skill, luck, and divine intervention, and I suspect the latter in greatest proportion.� Butler eliminated about 75 percent of the targets in the SIOP, introduced a targeting philosophy that was truly flexible, and decided to get rid of the name SIOP. The United States no longer had a single, integrated war plan. Butler preferred a new title for the diverse range of nuclear options: National Strategic Response Plans.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2014 05:54

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 23:39

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Doctor Grape Ape posted:

Edit: Related to this thread, there's this thing

Located about 10 minutes from me, anyone interested in some pictures?

B-52 Park right next to Orlando International/McCoy? It's a pretty neat little park.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2014 23:51

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

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